Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

government are all a honest bunch who never lie, mislead, cover anything up etc. Didnt you know tim ;)

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

It's pointless trying to have a adult conversation with people so blinded by conspiracy and paranoia that they cannot even see common sense and facts

Thought you may be interested in this bit from my earlier link

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

It's not paranoia. We were told by the FBU that it would happen, and guess what, it did.

Remember it is only when you are directly involved that you see differences in what is normally reported, and what isn't reported when it suits the gevernments agenda.

If it was a car fire, or a bedroom fire with nobody injured, then you could just put it down to there not being space in the paper. But as I said previously, this was one story that would often be national news. But it wasn't even reported. Just the same as the serious accident that firefighters left the picket line to attend, on the personal request of an ambulance officer. The army were mobilised to it, and actually assisted the striking firefighters in rescuing the casualty. And the army officer in charge commented afterwards that they were glad that the firefighters broke their strike to attend, as they wouldn't have had a clue on their own, and the casualty would probably have died....this wasn't reported either. In fact try and find any reports during the period of industrial action that praised firefighters.

As for the earlier link, you can take that with a pinch of salt, as I also said earlier. The government would use the excuse that it was in the interest of the nation, because the MOD had to cover the strike, so the took them away from defending the country. And what would happen if that was challenged legally? Well the industrial action would most likely be over by then.

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

and you believed them , like they don't have an agenda during industrial action

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

One thing I remember about when the Army took over fire fighting duties, is that they complained of boredom, because there was so little for them to do.

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

That must have been a story made up by the government who forced the press to release it by using some obscure piece of legislation designed to feed misinformation to the germans in WWII :D

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

That was probably because by the time they got the Green Goddess started and then ambled at 20 MPH to the fire the fire would have burned itself out, which is probably just as well .. trying to put out a fire with a stirrup pump in a bucket of water was not effective even back in the days when the Green Goddess was state of the art. :D

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

Like I said, you are very nieve. The FBU doesn't have an agenda, it's members do. THey give advice to the members on whatever the members vote to do. So there was no reason not to believe them. But you really have your blinkers on if you actually believe that governments don't play dirty, and bend the rules to suit themselves.

I have very stong evidence to back up what I say....what do you have to say otherwise???

---------- Post added at 03:24 ---------- Previous post was at 03:23 ----------

And that's because all they did was answer fire calls. That is about 5 -10% of what firefighters do. So they would be bored.

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

I know they bend the rules to suit themselves ,funny thing is though as soon as there is a wiff of rule bending from the government the press are all over it .


lets see it then

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

Ahem....

From the FBU website

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

nothing to do with paranoia martyh, its just blatantly obvious instead.

The bbc themselves have told me certian stories dont get published as they not in the public interest in their own words, of course the bbc dont have to worry about paper sales so for them its nothing to do with if it sells papers or not.

The facts are senior ministers will have direct lines to journalists and probably editors, there is probably arrangements between the 2, and on top of this papers will have their own political agendas as well eg. some will be pro left wing and others pro right wing.

Its probably a #1 rule when in government to have papers and tv news on side otherwise if they go against you then the people will be against you as well as the public are suckers for believing what they told. This is an obvious downside of democracy in that you have to worry what the people think of you and in turn you have to worry what the media think of you as the media controls the public. So the naivety is on your side if you think there is no relationship between media and government with them both fully independent of each other.

Its not just papers as well, its documentaries and soaps like eastenders which are also used for propoganda.

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

your putting words in my mouth again ,you realy must start reading properly .I was commenting on Tims ridiculous claim that a DA notice was used to supress/block a story about firemen saving a mother and son from a house fire in stevenage during the 2003 fire mans strike so please read the bloody posts before commenting in future

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

"propoganda (sic)" - When something is said, printed, or presented in media which disagrees with my views....;)

If there is a conspiracy by Government and 'Big Business' to have the media on the Government's side, they are not very good at it, considering all the critical items in the media about the Government (current and previous)....

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

And your point is???

Any union represents it's members. It can advise it's members, but it can't force them to do anything.

---------- Post added at 11:26 ---------- Previous post was at 11:15 ----------

What Chrysalis says is spot on. But for some reason you think that you know better.

I don't know for sure, and neither do you if a D-Notice was actually used officially, or if pressure was just put on the press. The fact is that as a D-Notice is a voulantary agreement, it wouldn't make any difference if it was used officially or not. The result was still the same, and will be with any dispute that the government have an interest in putting out negative propoganda.

In 2003 a friend of mine phoned up the Sun to ask why they were printing deliberate lies about firefighters. The response was that they knew what they were printing was lies, but they will print it anyway because they don't agree with the dispute.....Obviously on their usual form, they didn't want the truth to get in the way of a good story:rolleyes:

---------- Post added at 11:33 ---------- Previous post was at 11:26 ----------

Sorry Hugh, but you really need to understand the underhand ways that governments and the press operate. We are starting to see more about how the press operate at the moment.

I was only using the firefighters dispute as one example. But if we continue to use this one. So the scenario is that a senior minister asks lets say the Sun editor not to print any story that puts firefighters in a good light, and in return they will feed the paper with a few exclusive stories.

Well this is a no brainer for the Sun. All they have to do is not print a couple of local stories, that would have only been fillers anyway. And in return they get a couple of nationally important exclusives.

Getting the picture??

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

Getting a picture....;)

[img]Download Failed (1)[/img]

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

And what is that supposed to mean??? I presume you are being insulting, which as a moderator you should know is against forum rules.

Healthy debate is good, but when it turns into people being abusive, then it has gone too far.

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

You have stated that the government blocked a story using a DA notice .You have failed to provide any evidence of this aside from it not being reported in a local rag and your union rep told .You refuse to accept that any attempt by the government to block stories by the government just so they look good would make a bigger scandal than anything the government have had to deal with in recent years ,in all honesty Tim you are making yourself look crazy

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

Maybe I should have worded it differently: The government stopped (by whatever means), the stories being reported. The D-Notice is one method that they may have used.

Why would it cause a scandal? They would be blocking a local story, not a national one with huge public interest.

My step father used to be the press officer for one of the major political parties (not saying which one). And you wouldn't believe some of the underhand tactics that he told me about that goes on between the government and the press.

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

Or maybe you could accept that the local didn't get the story untill after the print deadline or they just didn't think it was newsworthy or they just didn't know about it instead of jumping to conclusions that the government are blocking the free press


seriously??? you have no idea why the government using exceptional powers for such a trivial story ,or any story other than ones involving national security would cause a scandal

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

Well I got no idea if DA notices were issued or not i have never said that.

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

Considering that they have been known to report on wheelie bin fires more than two weeks after they happened, then the deadline theory doesn't apply.

It was far more newsworthy than most of the stories that they print. I mean come on, a 2 year old boy playing with a lighter, and causing a fire that very nearly killed him and his mother. Both resuscitated on scene, and then rushed to hospital. Then the toddler had to be transferred to Adenbrooks where he had to undergo a complete blood transfusion due to his blood being saturated with carbon monoxide. And then being kept in hospital for another three weeks until he recovered.....no I can't see that being newsworthy, can you?:rolleyes:

And they did know about it, because the press officer, who is the partner of a friend of mine actually gave them the report. As she also did for the RTC I mentioned. As the Ambulance press officer (who I also know well) also did. So that theory doesn't work either.


I've explained that over and over again. There was a pay dispute, and the government didn't want public opinion to be on the side of the firefighters. So any stories that put them in a good light are supressed. And they release loads of propoganda (much of it lies) to make firefighters look bad. This is also done to stop firefighters putting over their side of the dispute.

It isn't a matter of national security, but they would have blown it all out of proportion.

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

No you haven't have you ,but if you had bothered to read instead of jumping in and waffling on about nonsense just so you could have a dig at me then maybe now you wouldn't look so foolish

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

Nobody should be having a dig at anyone. This is supposd to be a mature debate.

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

For god sake, you keep on callling me an extremist, we sorry to dissapoint you, but I am not, I have not called for a "Ayran Race, "Workers of The World Unite", "Jihad" etc

---------- Post added at 14:45 ---------- Previous post was at 14:43 ----------

All this will do is make more people move to London or start rioting outside London, if this keeps going, it will be more than Scotland that starts demanding "freedom" from the UK! :mad:

---------- Post added at 14:47 ---------- Previous post was at 14:45 ----------

Remember London has a high cost of living and the wages do not compensate, and they are the highest in the UK!

---------- Post added at 14:48 ---------- Previous post was at 14:47 ----------

Also, there are less unionised workers in the private sector then in the public sector!

---------- Post added at 14:50 ---------- Previous post was at 14:48 ----------

Which is why we need radical reform, like more trade union members and more powerful unions!

---------- Post added at 14:50 ---------- Previous post was at 14:50 ----------

How can you explain people voting for a lower standard of living?

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

Strange, how your comments/answers very rarely relate to what was actually posted - you seem to reply to the statements you think the CF'ers should have posted (or are not related at all), rather than what they actually posted.....

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

Maybe the BBC should take control on the newspapers, then the only bias would from the commentators

---------- Post added at 14:59 ---------- Previous post was at 14:58 ----------

Still havent answered my question then :D[COLOR="Silver"]

---------- Post added at 15:06 ---------- Previous post was at 15:02 ----------

Why can't the Levison investigation deal with this?

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

Common sense - you can't keep spending money you don't have.....

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

Pragmatism, realism.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17335444

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

Sorry but you are, Your twitter page backs that up and your facebook page did as well

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

It really is amazing how between Tony Blair coming to office and Gordon Brown leaving office that this country forgot how to live within its means.

There are people like Alan that think luxury is a right and doesn't need to be earnt.

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

:tu:

Some folks don't think....... ;)

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

Point one - you ARE an extemest you only have to look at what you post elsewhere and here to prove that.

But what makes me ponder you even more is that you are ALSO (According to what you post here) the type of person you despise the most and would be the first up against the wall when what you advocate happens.

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

The sad irony of that fact clearly escapes him.

---------- Post added at 17:10 ---------- Previous post was at 17:08 ----------

Too true - but conveniently overlooked by so many here who refuse to accept reality.

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

Not within the remit of the Inquiry which is about phone hacking/dark arts and the interaction/corruption between the press,government and the police.

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

Alan doesn't think inciting rioting, terrorism, and murder is extreme :rofl::rofl::rofl:

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

extremists never do ,they always without exception think their actions and words are reasonable,justyfied and logical ...........bit like a politician really;)

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

And in the end when they are in prison, they will claim that they are a political prisoner. Whe the real reason they are in prison is to protect the public from their extremist behavior.

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers
 

There is money, but it is in the hands of the rich :mad:

---------- Post added at 12:28 ---------- Previous post was at 12:26 ----------

More like, continuing tobeliving in what businesses say, even though they have caused a big economic mess, 6 weeks is not too much to ask!

The cost to the economy would not be that much...

---------- Post added at 12:32 ---------- Previous post was at 12:28 ----------

We borrow a lot of money because we wanted to have a higher standard of living even though thanks weaker unions and weaker workers rights (along with deregulation), wages was not rising fast enough to pay for it. In the meantime, the rich were taking control of more and more of the capital, in the end the bubble burst and the rich ended up with a lot of money at the expence of us, this has been going on sicne the 80s

---------- Post added at 12:34 ---------- Previous post was at 12:32 ----------

So standing up for working people make you into an extremist?

Reminds me of the Boers who ran South Africa until the 1990s, they called anyone who wanted the end to apartheid as "Communists" and "Terrorists" :D

---------- Post added at 12:36 ---------- Previous post was at 12:34 ----------

I am saying that hard work should be rewarded and that the working people get a decent standard of living, I am also saying that people should be rewarded by how hard they work and how good they are in work, rather than who you parents are

Re: National pay rates may be scrapped for public workers