Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

seriously dude ,get some help .Not only are the basic concepts of economics meaningless to you but you think that forcing other sovereign nations to join your idiotic world government acceptable .I think you need to step back from the brink and look at the history of other people who thought that world domination would be good idea .....and no, i don't mean watching james bond films :dozey:

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

Wow. Just, wow.

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

is that aimed at me or Alan ?

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

My pint is that since business had gone "Globalised", then to regulate them and manage their effects, Governments also need to "Globalise"

My plan does not just involve force, but though democratic means, I can tell you why people who vote "yes" for this plan:

1: The Kurds and other "Unrepresented Peoples" can finally have their own state

2: War between nations will stop (along with a strong focuus on law and order)

3: The wealth of the world can be spread to developing nations

4: People in devloping nations can have higher incomes and free high quality education and heathcare

5: People in devloping nations will no longer be exploited

6: Relgious and LGBT freedom and rights can be spread worldwide

7: Relgion will no longer be closely linked to government, poltics etc

8: A lot of the worlds conflicts will end

9: No Relgion or race will dominate another

10: Tax Evasion and Advodance will end

11: People in Developed Nations will no longer have governments that care about the rich, so they can have higher wages and benifts

And that is just is the start!

In other words, a fresh new start for humans and the earth! :angel:

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

Well there's your problem

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

I'll have a pint of what he's drinking please... it appears to do weird things to the mind... and I could do with a mental holiday (can't afford a real one!)

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

Because that worked at a european level didnt it :rolleyes:

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

aaah but you see it doesn't work at a european level because it's not a global level ....and Alan didn't think of it :D

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

My point is that since business had gone "Globalised", then to regulate them and manage their effects, Governments also need to "Globalise"

My plan does not just involve force, but though democratic means, I can tell you why people who vote "yes" for this plan:

1: The Kurds and other "Unrepresented Peoples" can finally have their own state

2: War between nations will stop (along with a strong focus on law and order)

3: The wealth of the world can be spread to developing nations

4: People in developing nations can have higher incomes and free high quality education and healthcare

5: People in developing nations will no longer be exploited

6: Religious and LGBT freedom and rights can be spread worldwide

7: Religion will no longer be closely linked to government, politics etc.

8: A lot of the world’s conflicts will end

9: No Religion or race will dominate another

10: Tax Evasion and Avoidance will end

11: People in Developed Nations will no longer have governments that care about the rich, so they can have higher wages and benefits

12: Governments across the world will no longer puppets for the rich

13: Business will no longer care just about profits, but about their employees as well

14: Poverty will go down!

15: Poltical and Relgious extremism will decline!

And that is just is the start!

In other words, a fresh new start for humans and the earth! :angel:

---------- Post added at 14:54 ---------- Previous post was at 14:53 ----------

Because their economies were not fully intergreated, and also it was done in a way that only helped the rich (who could avoid it as well)

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

repeating it doesn't make it any more sane you know Alan :rolleyes:

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

The only insane in CF are the ones who promote and defend a failed economic and social system! :td:

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

Yes that's the problem, the EU didn't think big enough...

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

That is correct!

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

Why ask for better ideas when what you are posting is not ideas but fantasy. Why should people feed you with real debate when you are not debating at all and are doing something else all together.

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

This is a real debate and the only fantasy ideas on CF are ones done by people who defend and promote a failed economic, poltical and social system!! :td:

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

Yes, but this current economic and social system is no longer benefiting the general public, only the rich, it also caused this great depression. The REAL reason why Pay is frozen is because they rich have taken control of democracy and capitalism and used to benefit themselves that ended up causing the worst depression since the 1930s. To pay for the rich then exploit we even more (after taking away union power and the benefits that came with it)!!!

P.S. I do not want to abolish Capitalism and Democracy, but radically reform it!!!

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

Alan. Obviously!

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

Thank god for that i thought we had two Alans :D

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

Your record is stuck

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

Let me help you with that.....

Irony

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

I agree with that. It's just that the rest of what you have been talking is utter, utter, horsepoo.......but it's given me a great laugh :D

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

:clap:

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

No, the only records that are stuck are you and your friends

---------- Post added at 22:13 ---------- Previous post was at 22:11 ----------

FOR GOD SAKE I am not talking rubbish, the only ones are talking rubbish are people who defend a failed system

Got any better ideas?

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

The same old record that is stuck.

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

Whatever they might be they don't involve a new world order and a single world government :p:

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

You are talking complete and utter drivel, and while I have almost split my sides laughing at you and your nonsense, its time to wrap it up and at least try and get this back on topic and sensible.

Time to stop with the rubbish now. If you dont have anything sensible to say, move on to another topic.



(and yes, I/we will decide if what you say is sensible)

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

For Goodness sake I am not talking drivel!!! :mad: :td:

I can see that you don't agree that we need radical reforms to democracy and Capitalism, but just because I am not agreeing with the "staus quo" does not mean I talk rubbish!!! :mad: :td:

I do not think that other CF users the defend a failed system have a right to deiside if what I say is sensible!!! :mad: :td:

The only people that are saying rubbish and utter drivel are CR userswho defend a failed economic, social and poltical system

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

They do when they are admin.

By the way you do realise you ARE one of the '%1' don't you?

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

Not the 1%!

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

Yes you clearly are.

But I digress - I was just pointing out that admin CAN tell you what to do and if you wish to continue posting it would be wise for you to listen.

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

I am pretty well of, but I am not rich or a member of the 1%

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

For goodness sake change the sodding record you have worn your last one out. :rolleyes:

---------- Post added at 19:48 ---------- Previous post was at 19:46 ----------

So your a hypocrite as well. Hope you paid your tax

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

But I am NOT RICH and I have paid my tax

The only records that worn ours are ones the play a failed system!

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

Arthur, looking at the bright side, those 1.6 million council workers may have had a pay freeze, but they have jobs. A lot of people don't.

Not that I am saying everything is all right. It's not. You are right, a lot of big companies are increasing prices to customers, reducing staffing levels, offshoring what remaining staff they can, all while reporting record profit levels (Tescos for instance).

Someone (the Government, presumably) needs to bring these companies back into line. By making it harder to send jobs off shore, and taking action to bring pricing to reasonable levels.

In short, the Government needs to do a lot more to protect the voter. You know, the people who put them in power.. I do think our current Government is failing in that duty, but this isn't a party political thing. I think successive Governments since at least the 80s have failed to do this. I don't know about the 60s or before, but it seemed as though Governments in the 70s also failed to protect the voter in this way, but they favoured the Unions rather than business.

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

:clap::clap::clap:

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

By whose definition are you not rich?
judging by the amount of hardware you have to watch tv you are considerably richer that I .Also the amount of time you spend on this forum i would suggest you don't have much of a job ,if one at all,or one that demands very few hours for a large wage .I look at that evidence and wonder how you have the gall to comment on wealthy people who do at least provide jobs even low paid jobs and quite probably provided you with the means to be able to afford
100 MB Broadband, XL Tv, Sky Sports and Movies HD, all other premium channels, 3 TIVO, 2 V HD

maybe someone could enlighten as to exactly what the cost of all that is because i bet it's quite a lot and i also bet you have 5 realy nice HD TV's to watch it all on and a top of the range pc/laptop/ipad/tablet with which to post your hypochritical drivel on ......oh and not to mention the 5 rooms in which to place all that hardware so it must be quite some house you live in .
You appear to be one of those people who in your ideal, single government ruled world who would be more equa than most others
Feel free to correct me if i am wrong

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

Student at university i think you will find, Its all in his twitter feed, There's lots of info on him if your willing to drill down through the rubbish and requests to kill people on there.

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

Oooohh ,so maybe it is wealthy parents funding him .I find it strange that someone who has not had to fend for himself in the real world by finding a job and living off that wage feels that he is qualified to tell all of us how broken the system is and how to fix it

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

Trust me he will deny it all.

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

Charlie Gilmour ring any bells? There are plenty of others like him who like to talk the talk whilst enjoying the privileges derived from the wealth they say they despise but, judging by our resident fantasist's spelling, if any money was spent on public school it was wasted.... :D You wait and see, if/when he grows up he'll be just as capitalist as all the others are.... ;)

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

That's who i thought of :D .
My biggest concern is that when i am in my dotage i will be relying on numties like him to run the country :( I may as well end it all now

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

Actually, tax avoidance must be ok with socialist lefties.......no matter what they say: Mr Livingstone has avoided at least £50,000 in tax by having himself paid through a personal company. :dozey:

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

Let's not forget David Miliband carries out this practice as well.

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

A brief search for 'Miliband', 'tax avoidance' and 'IHT' also makes interesting if entirely unsurprising reading. Legal, of course, but then the fact that it's legal has never stopped these hypocrites branding political opponents who've done the very same thing as self serving fat cats has it....

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

Interesting quote in that article:
:tu:

---------- Post added at 10:57 ---------- Previous post was at 10:14 ----------

Hmmm.......the silence is deafening :D

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

It's that time of year again so i'm busy being astute so as to prevent the depletion of my means :D

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

What do you what to hear, how great it is that the rest of us have to pay more so yet another person can avoid by dubious means.

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

This current mess isn't the fault of bankers alone. People actually borrowed money couldn't afford to repay and all for yhings they probably didn't need.

If the general population could repay its debts we in all honesty would all be be nowhere near as bad as this.

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

What I want to hear is the left wingers here who have been ranting on about tax avoidance being as bad as tax evasion acknowledging that perhaps it isn't.....since their own 'leaders' are doing it.......and perhaps acknowledging the monumental hypocrisy of those same left wing leaders.
Too much to ask?.......probably :dozey:

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

Yes it is to much to ask as far as I'm concerned, some people want to avoid paying what's due through some very dubious means and you want to use it as a political point scoring exercise, that's why nothing gets done about it, well that and the old your only jealous line that's thrown around willy-nilly at times when it looks like the public might finally have had enough.

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

So you have no comment to make about Milliband & Livingstone avoiding paying the tax that you (presumably) feel should be paid?

---------- Post added at 17:00 ---------- Previous post was at 16:58 ----------

While the lefties here turn a blind eye to what their own are doing and are happy to rant about what the rest of us do in that department.....damn right I do!
:D

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

Nothing other than they should have paid what's due and that I hope a lot of the loopholes are closed.

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

Yeeees.......but don't you think that you are letting your left wing brethren off the hook just a little easily? Shouldn't you be railing against their hypocritical 'cheating' ways a little more vigorously? :D

---------- Post added at 17:20 ---------- Previous post was at 17:10 ----------

..................and it's strange how all the other lefties are suddenly suspiciously absent from this thread.....:rofl:

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

To me they are just as bad as any one else doing it, a pox on all their houses imo and no I don't think I should be railing more vigorously against anyone in particular as I don't recall every bringing anyones political persuasion into this particular debate (or any others ones for that matter), I hope they all come a cropper.

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

Excellent. Thanks for saying that on record :tu:
Now, any other lefties want to come on and denounce their leaders?

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

"he's doing it, so i'm doing it" that's the attitude and that's why nothing gets done about it .These aren't new loopholes that have been discovered they have been used for years throughout progressive governments and none have been willing to sort it out and despite the current governments strong words i doubt anything will change any time soon

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

True, the thing on the side for change is how tough it is out there for most people at the moment, if we don't get it changed for the better of the many rather than the very few now we never will.

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

I know that this is too much to hope for but I really would like to see our left wing contingent ease off the anti tax avoidance rhetoric. Doesn't the fact that your esteemed leaders are avoiding tax give you pause for thought? Perhaps tax avoidance isn't all that bad? Perhaps the fact that it's legal (till the tax man decides bits of it aren't) and the labour bigwigs indulge in it means that you should stop frothing at the mouth about it?

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

Ermm, as far as I can tell you're the only one banging on about it. I certainly am not going to rise to the occasion to say what Mr. Ramrod thinks persons left of centre should be saying. Talk about a straw man... Oh, and I'd hardly call these chaps my 'leaders'. I hate Labour. Bloody fascists :td:

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

Agreed ,lets just say it will be a test of camerons resolve and how serious he thinks the problem is

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

I don't think I'm setting up a straw man (sorry if I am).
I'm merely asking those who have been frothing at the mouth about tax avoidance in this thread to comment on their own hypocritical leaders tax avoidance strategies.....

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

Well, the way it came across was as if all lefties were foaming at the mouth over tax evasion (which was the perceived straw man), and they should therefore comment on these cases. Asking those who did to comment is very different from what you appear to be asking:

It's all a bit sweeping isn't it?

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

Indeed it is (sorry for that).......but in light of the rabid left wing tax avoidance=tax evasion rants in this thread, what's wrong with my requests (that you have nicely summarised above)?

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

To be fair i assumed that the question was aimed at our resident left wing fantasist who could have won a Olympic medal yesterday with the speed of back peddling he did when it was pointed out that his Gods (AKA union leaders) where as wealthy and as bent in their tax affairs as some of the present government .....i think he's still licking his wounds :D

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

Yep, his absence is......interesting :D

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

Yes. I haven't read the whole thread, but you can't expect all so-called lefties to justify the inane drivel posted by one or two Morons (which is what Ramrod appeared to be asking).

---------- Post added at 18:42 ---------- Previous post was at 18:42 ----------

See above.

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

i would have said a welcome relief ,although less amusing sanity seems to have come out to play today :D

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

I am asking the lefties who have been foaming at the mouth in this thread to justify their leaders actions. :)
But I will settle for any lefties at a pinch! :D

---------- Post added at 18:46 ---------- Previous post was at 18:45 ----------

I know. Sometimes you just can't have it all :D

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

That's more like it :)

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

.........and with the exception of The Daddy ( Who wasn't one of them, :clap: ) they haven't :D

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

Well, a Moron is a Moron, regardless of political persuasion ;)

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

True. Wish I was clevererer :D

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

Tell me what's good about the Pearson group lending itself $430 million, charging itself $40 million a year in interest, getting a tax break in the US for it and paying no tax here at all. HMRC said it was breath taking and pushed the boundaries of avoidance to the very limit and set about coming up with a cosy little Vodaphone type deal with them. That's what I mean about tax avoidance, not someone claiming for personal allowances and the like.

---------- Post added at 06:46 ---------- Previous post was at 06:43 ----------

Me to

which one of is us he calling a moron... :D

---------- Post added at 06:50 ---------- Previous post was at 06:46 ----------

Funnily enough I'm no fan of Labour either, never voted for them and never will until the become a proper socialist party again.

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

If it's legal then live and let live :shrug:The reason companies & individuals can do that type of stuff is that the tax laws are so complicated. Who made them complicated? The government(s).

Quote:

That's what I mean about tax avoidance, not someone claiming for personal allowances and the like.

It's a little more than claiming personal allowances though. Livingstone set up a company, maxed out what he could pay his other half etc.....

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

Yes and it wouldn't stick in the throat quite so much if he hadn't spent so long whining about others (usually Tories and City fat cats) doing the same or similar in order to avoid tax. It really is hypocrisy of the first order.

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

Yes, but those 1.6 million are struggling, along with millions more out of work, all because of the fault of wealthy and major business!!! :mad::td:

It is about time governments cared more about unions (and people) than business and that is the fault of Labour, Lib Dem and Tory!

---------- Post added at 09:08 ---------- Previous post was at 08:58 ----------

I am fairly wealthy, but I’m not rich, if I was then it would be living in Surry and Central London, also I would have dozens of TV’s as well, along with a lot of other things!

I agree that the rich provide jobs, but not many and nearly all low paid, and yet they attack us even more by forcing us to pay the price for their mistakes and their failed system

I do spend a lot of time on CF, but I spend a lot of time at work!
I was lucky, I come from an era were social mobility was common and sadly it is not the case!

---------- Post added at 09:08 ---------- Previous post was at 09:08 ----------

What you do not get is that it has been a very long time since I went to uni! :D

---------- Post added at 09:10 ---------- Previous post was at 09:08 ----------

I have come from an era when people could climb up the social ladders, when that is no longer possible, the system is not working and it failing!!! :mad: :td:

---------- Post added at 09:12 ---------- Previous post was at 09:10 ----------

I am closer to his dads age, my parents were not wealthy (but not poor) and the only times I have been to a public school has been as a tourist!

Unlike out PM! :D

I am a capitalist, but someone who believes in a better form of it!

---------- Post added at 09:13 ---------- Previous post was at 09:12 ----------

What Ken has done is not good!

But Boris is still worse!

---------- Post added at 09:14 ---------- Previous post was at 09:13 ----------

I am not keen on David Milliband, we do not need another Tony Blair!

---------- Post added at 09:14 ---------- Previous post was at 09:14 ----------

Thats beacuse their wages did not rise!

---------- Post added at 09:16 ---------- Previous post was at 09:14 ----------

Thoses "Leaders" have sold out the the rich and powerful, just ask Blair, but business and the wealthy do it even more than our so called leaders!!! :mad: :td:

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

You do realise by being fairly wealthy you are in the 1% you so despise?

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

Warning! Warning! That does not compute.... does not compute..... does not compute.....

:D

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

I am in the top 5%, but not in the 1%, so i can still claim to be a member of the 99%

My children for example have to pay thousands in fees just to get into university

My point is that if I WAS RICH, it would have dozens of STB's, hundreds of cars, many mansions and meeting with the PM about selling the NHS!

---------- Post added at 11:00 ---------- Previous post was at 10:58 ----------

I agrre that BOTH Left and Right Wingers should not be evading tax, but remember the worst suspects are the rich and major companies!!

---------- Post added at 11:03 ---------- Previous post was at 11:00 ----------

For God Sake I am NOT a Fantasist and I have stated that Unions Bosses are paid a bit too much, but as much as some Government roles, along with Heads (and excutives) of major companies and the wealthy!

I stand by what I have said, unions have achived a lot of this country and in mant other countries!!

---------- Post added at 11:05 ---------- Previous post was at 11:03 ----------

The only insane people on CF are people like yourself and your friends who not only defend and promote a failed economic, social and poltical system, but also try to move the agurment in you favour!!! :mad: :td:

GET REAL!!!

Itt is the rich and their allies that are the issue, not Union Leaders!!! :mad: :td:

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

Alan without knowing your financial details it is difficult to say but as you claim to be fairly wealthy and as it only takes a combined income of £86k pa for a family of 4 to be in the 1% then there is a good chance you are.

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

I have checked that and I can tell you I am not a member of the 1%!

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

So you're not fairly wealthy then? Which is it?

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

"Fairly Wealthy" is in the top 10%, rich is in the top 1%!

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

Maybe in the UK. If you look at the world (as you are so keen to do with your "World Government") you are in the 1%.

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

I am still not in the 1%, even by world standards!

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

Then you aren't fairly wealthy. Which is it?

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

Yes, but I am not rich!

To put it this way, "We are the 99%" is a slogan, but let me make this clear, I am not a member of the 1% club!

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

Alan, while you may not think you are rich, 99% of the world do.

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

Yes, because most of the worlds people are in poverty, manly due to the rich!

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

Compared to them you are rich. Is it your fault they are in poverty? You're in the 1% after all so it must be. Shame on you Alan.

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

I AM NOT A MEMBER OF THE 1%!!! :mad: :td:

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

Just because you shout it doesn't make it true.

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

You do realise that you are missing the bigger picture, That REAL rich people who earn millions (or billions) each year are causing a lot of problems in the world and they are being helped by a failed system!!!

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

So now you have realised you're part of the 1%, its not the 1%'s fault anymore?

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

I have siad I am not a mmeber of the 1%

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

And I've said I'm dating Anne Hathaway. Don't as me for her autograph though.

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

Well unlike you I am NOT joking!

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

Lol the government made us do it, reminded me of that open letter the other week where a load of people asked for the 50p tax rate to be dropped as it was causing them to avoid tax and not give as much to charity and I wasn't talking about Ken in particular but normal self employed tax payers here that seem to have the idea that them claiming for allowances puts them in the same catagory as the pearson group and the like.

---------- Post added at 15:35 ---------- Previous post was at 15:33 ----------

You ARE dating Anne Hathaway then?

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

Absolutely brilliant :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Re: Pay frozen for third year running
 

:rolleyes:

---------- Post added at 18:38 ---------- Previous post was at 18:37 ----------

No your fantasising

---------- Post added at 18:40 ---------- Previous post was at 18:38 ----------

Seconded.

We are now see the real Alan Fry emerging. Definitely a member of the "Whats yours is mine and whats mine is my own" Clan.