Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

and i would suspect that those who did have santions applied against them where the worst kind of long term claimant ,those who these schemes are aimed at

---------- Post added at 11:31 ---------- Previous post was at 11:30 ----------

how so?

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

If they got the info from Chris Grayling. it's probably a lie or highly excaggerated. like alot of the stuff he's been saying of late to do with this.

I'll see what I can find out.

what do you think of the now omitted paragraph in the guidelines I posted earlier?

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

would love to comment the letters aren't there just blank boxes

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

Because you've totally ignored the facts, and put your own prejudices first.

---------- Post added at 11:38 ---------- Previous post was at 11:36 ----------

Probably you're browser.

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

Try actually reading the documents released through the FOI request - as I stated above, the original document states

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

I have ignored your 'facts' ,and i use that term losely and yes i am prejudiced against lazy workshy people

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

The facts are that over 34,000 young people have gone on this scheme, over 20,000 have found jobs and are off benefits, and 200 have been sanctioned with the loss of two weeks benefits, as if they had not turned up to sign on.

I can see why this is not fair to the young unemployed.....

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

Sorry Hugh, but you're just not getting it. you're too focused on 'it is voluntary because it says so' bit.

so I'll explain again.

yes, it has always been voluntary up until after the first week.
but (this is the main bit to concentrate on) they didn't tell people that they could try it for a week and that they could freely pull out without any sanctions. as long as it was within that first week that they pulled out.

let me know if you got it now.

---------- Post added at 11:44 ---------- Previous post was at 11:42 ----------

so am I.

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

And the only evidence of that is hearsay - let me know if you've got that now....

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

No, they're just something that someone in government has said, that's all. they're not neccessarily facts.

the other thing is. they give a percentage of how many people no longer claiming during this thing. the question is, could these people consist of people that have been sanctioned. signed off because they don't want to do the work they may have felt they were forced to do. or simply just put on another scheme that results in them not counting on the unemployment figures?

if they had got jobs the govenment would know that they have a job.
where are they now? that is the question.

---------- Post added at 11:50 ---------- Previous post was at 11:49 ----------

I'll take that as a yes, then.

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

I would not wish to see anyone exploited, and I would not be at all surprised if there are some unscrupulous companies taking advantage of the scheme. But, the figures in this thread highlighting the number of people who found employment through the scheme are proof that the scheme has merit.

I feel the uncalled for uproar over this scheme caused by the bitter 'Lefties' have done a lot of damage to something showing positive results. The fuss caused over this scheme is nothing more than political point scoring, unfortunately at the cost of jobs for those most vulnerable in the job market.

Let's get one thing straight, 'Anyone on a government backed scheme obtaining benefits is not working for nothing'

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

I would not object to the scheme if the supermarkets or any other employer paid the person the going rate for the job.

As i see it the employer is using the scheme for a few weeks cheap labour funded by the taxpayer that is the point i object to most.

It is wrong to class eople who object as" lefties" i would not call the Daily Mail leftie and even that paper the scourge of the benefits claimants has concerns.

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

If you're against anything to do with anything nowadays. you're branded as an extremist by the likes of Grayling.

so if you are against companies exploiting the unemployed, companies saving and making money from the unemployed, and all the 'agencies' that make millions of pounds from the use of getting the unemployed to work for free.

then consider yourself an extremist :)

---------- Post added at 13:31 ---------- Previous post was at 12:36 ----------

DWP blocking Freedom of Information requests.

http://www.consent.me.uk/workfareexploiters/

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

good

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

blocking freedom of information or hiding their guilt ??

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

Both. oh, and ignore Marty :)

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

my question is 200 had sanctions, how many gave up the work placement? as the 200 doesnt mean much as we dont know how many pulled out.

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

I don't see that it makes any difference ,those that pull out will simply be placed in a more suitable placement untill they either complete the course or get sanctioned

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

still don't see what the problem is valuable work experience is being given to unemployed people with a chance of a job at the end ,this has been the case for years so why all of a sudden is there so much fuss

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

Oh the fuss is just for the fun of it. it's all being done by people on the dole.

no, really. it is.

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

No, it's all being done by SWP under cover of http://righttowork.org.uk/ :rolleyes:

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

Thousands of pounds here, millions of pounds there.
and the tax payer moans about £53 for a benefit claimant.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2...son-properties


Fraud, scams, and fraud is rife in Britain at the moment.
and it's always tax payers money.
looks like A4e is finished then. back to normal soon :)

there we were only a few weeks ago saying how much benefit fraud is costing us. only we were looking in the wrong place, and at the wrong people :)

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...l-7440966.html

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

more on a4e
Now work tsar's staff probed over 'theft' of vouchers meant to buy interview suits for jobless

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz1nTTuJFVp

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

it makes a difference as it could be eg. only 200 pulled out which would mean a 100% sanction rate. "on a voluntary placement".

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

After they close a4e down they should investigate all the others too, because it's going on at all of them. money is just there for the taking. and it's being taken.

Grayling should resign. Cameron employed Harrison when there was fraud flying around her head.
Britain is corrupt. and it's all coming from the government side.

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

Cameron has some dodgy mates .

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

He went horse riding with the head of news of the world.

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

where is this 50% employment figures come from are they government figures or A4E because inclined not believe a polititian or this A4E. Thatcher few moons ago said employement from YTS Scheme was good it turned out to be figment of here brain. It was very low showed abuse of the system.

I am inclined to not take these figures 50% seriously. Unless full audit by independent organisation provides numbers would not trust them.

Gary L I agree completely maybe investigations all parties and companies needed. Westminster Politics is corrupt it needs routed out.

---------- Post added at 11:18 ---------- Previous post was at 11:16 ----------

Not suprising will that idiot learn.

I think he needs to be investegated something very very wrong with the circle people he is with.

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

You do realise, of course, that it was a4e that notified the DWP and the police because an internal investigation uncovered that four of its staff were possibly involved in fraudulent activity?

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

the disloyal swine's;)

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

Damage limitation, Hugh.

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

They discovered it in November 2010 and reported in within 24 hours, so pretty good foresight, then, Gary....

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

They've been investigated 9 times now. which one did they grass themselves up for?

and I think 4 out of them they paid the money back and no charges were brought.
I'd have charged them instead of keep turning a blind eye everytime they gave the money back.

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

How many have they been found guilty of?

(or do you believe that just by being investigated, they are guilty?)

Update - they have referred nine cases to the DWP - link

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

At least 4. I'll have a look later about the rest.

my mistake. it was 5.
how come your link with the BBC says only 2?

http://www.channel4.com/news/arrests...contractor-a4e

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

A link would be good...

btw, love your definition of "guilty" - no charges were brought.

So, just to get it straight - in your eyes, if a company discovers some of it's employees are committing fraud, if they then report this to the DWP and police, fire the employees, pay back the money the employees fraudulenty obtained, the company is still guilty?

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

What definition of "guilty"?

they paid the money back.

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

That definition of guilty....

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

You're the one who brought the term of guilty into it. and to be honest I don't know what you mean.

I've updated my post. it was 5 times and not 4. and you said it's only 2.

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

Anybody going to any of the protests on the 3rd March?

I see they're getting ready for them. the Police have been told to clamp down hard.

I expect if they're happening all over the country then it could have potential to become mini riots.

I think the government will see that it's not just a tiny minority such as the SWP. they'll see that it's mostly the general public.

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

No ,unfortunately the majority of the general public will be too busy working

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

That's a thought. I wonder how many doing the free labour on that day would have wanted to give their support?

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

Not what the polls say...

YouGovSundayTimes

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

If they protest against something that is designed to help them they need a good slap .......and sanctioned

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

That's a bit biased.
they say that it's voluntary. some people are missing the point that a lot of the upset is about it wasn't voluntary and that a lot of people were told they had to do it.
(as we discussed earlier)

I wonder how many of them who said they weren't against it, work. or just had prejudices against the unemployed?
a reversal of the "Job Snob" if you like.

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

Oh dear Hugh ,looks like those facts got in the way again :)

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

I was reading your initial first posts in this thread. I'm wondering what made you change your attitude later on?

---------- Post added at 22:09 ---------- Previous post was at 22:08 ----------

He said a4e only had to pay money back 2 times earlier on. when it was actually 5.
them kind of facts? ;)

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

Oh give it a bloody rest Gary ,the majority of tax payers if not the majority of the country as a whole think it's a good idea ,it's only the people who are scared of losing the freedom they have to sit on the dole with the state paying for everything that object along with a few idiots that think some kind of 'uman right has beeen violated

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

As long as it doesn't affect you Marty.

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

Ah, the old 'ad hominem' attack, when facts fail to support you..

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

Is this to me or Marty?

in the voting figures. am I wrong in thinking the total vote who strongly support the 'voluntary' work is 24 people?

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

you mean the bit where i said i had doubts about companies making excess profits from work experience people and not offering anything in return .Since most companies have backed out that won't happen and since tesco are taking some of the people on as shown in later posts my fears have been alayed ,also ,unlike you ,i have read a lot on the subject since the thread started and realise that the scheme is not realy any different to others that have been around for years

---------- Post added at 22:23 ---------- Previous post was at 22:18 ----------

should i find myself needing help from the welfare system in the near future ,which is looking increasingly more likely, i will jump at the chance to do a bit of free work in order to prove i am a reliable choice for any prospective employer ,it will not bother me one jot if it is stacking shelves or doing brain surgery ,i am old enough and wise enough to realise when i am being given a opportunity and will take it without whining about it like a spoilt brat

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

But, then you start throwing words like lazy about when you're talking about those people. when some of them could have been in work for 2 or 3 years and been made unemployed prior to going on this.

then you also have the bit about it being completely voluntary, so why say it's only the people who are scared of losing the freedom they have to sit on the dole with the state paying for everything that object?

why would they be objecting if it's voluntary. if they're on it they only have themselves to blame for volunteering. and if they want to just carry on sitting there, then they wouldn't be stupid enough to volunteer.

the way you're making it sound is that it's mandatory.

I think I have read a lot more.
I even read when the DWP said there is no evidence to show that 'work experience' creates jobs.
and that it reduces employment chances by limiting the time available for job search.

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

so what's your point ,you will find that the lazy ones are the ones objecting ,the ones who genuinely want work will not object


because there are compulsory schemes out there for those who are long term unemployed .They are the ones who do not show that they are looking for work and they are the ones that will be put on the strictly compulsory work placements or lose benefits ,but you would know all of this if you had read up on the subject as you claim ,or have you only read the bits that back up your view

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

Are you talking about the mandatory or the voluntary one?
I think it's the former.

I've only read up on the subject were discussing.
the voluntary one. the same one you're replying to.

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

either ,anyone genuinely wanting to find work will not object to any scheme.

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

And if they don't. the tax payer should.

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

if who don't ?,
the tax payer should what ?

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

The unemployed.

Object to paying taxes to boost companies profits by means of not having to pay to employ someone. by not having to pay overtime to their existing staff.

by making a mockery of the Minimum wage law.

that's just a few.

The only people who benefit are the 'employers' not the 'workers'
oh, and the government. because they've done something about the unemployed having no jobs to find. they found them all one.

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

The ends justify the means ,if the tax payer has to use taxes to send people on work experience schemes so they can gain experience of work which a lot won't have then so be it .

The minimum wage laws don't come into it as the people are not employed they are in reciept of benefits

You must accept gary that work schemes have been around for years ,so why all of a sudden have they caused this problem

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

You keep moving the goal posts, Marty.

ok, so everyone on the dole now has experience. shall we put them to work in another company to give them even more experience.

now what?
can they all go and get a job tomorrow? are we ok with them now? are we their friends now?

will we set up a crisis fund for companies to help get through the financial loss that they may be suffering from losing free labour?

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

A cousin of mine has recently been put on this scheme and contarary to what is said on TV and in the media in general he wasn't given a choice he was told "do it or lose your benefit". He is now doing 4 weeks work in the local heart foundation shop with zero chance of a job at the end of it. Now i am not defending him or his position he is a lazy little sod and typifies the saying "you can choose your friends but not family" but there was nothing voluntary about it for him. I am wondering where the actual truth lies in all this as government saying onething to the public that won't be affected by something and then doing something totally different to those who are affected is becoming quite common.

In principle i have no real problem with a proper work experience scheme where there is a real chance of employment at the end of it for those who want it and take the oppurtunity but i am not convinced this is that scheme at the minute.

It could be a good scheme if they offered say £20 a week on top of your JSA and the figures of people being taking on after the scheme finished were good.

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

That's what a lot of people are saying. that people were forced to do it or else you'll lose your benefit.
some refuse to believe that it was happening, because they hear the government saying "it is voluntary" to the media now.

some people are so gullible. the government can tell them anything and they'll believe it.

I imagine now that all these people know it's officially voluntary. that the take up will decrease rapidly.

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

RizzyKing dont think I am talking relation here.

What about HIGH RISK unemployed those with troubled lives ie drugs abuse, arson, stealing, shoplifting and GBH/ABH.

I accept everybody needs second chance it might even be behind some of them, great they turned life around. However forcing those types who have not deemed high risk. If those would be deemed so bad they exempt then why they done this. Then it would fill me with dread those currently troubled would be forced to work dangers and concequences of this fill me with dread.

You can you imagine drug junkie being forced to work in charity shop or firm going cold turkey for a fix or worse taking it in toilet. Will there be measures to make sure these individuals wont pose a danger and would never be able to get drugs on premises or knives.
How easy would to get friend to slip him his stuff after phone call desperation. It something forcing it there huge dangers involved. Social only see a Number they dont see the person his habits unless he know to the police but do they have access to records.

What about those people who troubled can get agressive violent do we want these in charities or shops.

I know its no defence but think government ought to be wary that there certain dangers.

Who would be responsible if irate customer gets stabbed or set upon. I am fearing there will be a flashpoint will government say sorry we never thought it would happen.


There those who would shop lift or steal would the companies want those near there business. I would think there HUGE risk of this happening while its JSA+Expenses no wage. The over bearing temptation to sneak off with something.

What about arsonist damn would tell social to naff off if I knew these types was coming to shop I owned. How many low lifes would be casing up premises for raids.

I wonder if this payback for those riots yet how many was unemployed.

I just showing that it maybe we should be careful that there will be some shady characters forced into this which I would worry about.

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

I said all this months ago.
the staff at places like Asda, Tesco's and such get paid a wage. so would be polite to customers because they don't want to risk losing their job.

if we have 'staff' there that don't want to be there. then if they want to hit you they will. then we could have a good scrap in the aisles. then all his mates join in and it turns into a 'staff' Vs the customer brawl :)

it will never happen. we have a deterrent called the police.

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

Chris Grayling is put on the spot by Channel 4 news with a letter that claimants are sent stating if they don't turn up or fail to start, their money may be stopped.
he suggests it's a letter for some other kind of scheme. but is told that it's a letter that has been confirmed by DWP to be the standard letter they send out.
he just keeps repeating it's a voluntary scheme, it's a voluntary scheme.. and probably said fiddlesticks at the end :)

http://www.channel4.com/news/catch-u...BENEFITSINT_28

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

I'm tempted to say that only people who have been through the mincer that is your local benefits agency / job centre can truly understand the awfulness of the letters they send and the rules they impose. But if there were ever a person whose job it is to understand, without ever having actually been on the dole, it's the minister who is supposed to be in charge of the thing.

Grayling clearly does not understand the DWP and more worryingly, has apparently made no effort to look into it and to understand it since this situation began to unravel.

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

Its from the mirror i know but i think this just about sums up every single reservation i have about this scheme firms handed wads of government cash or next to free labour for very little.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...rs-cash-743698

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

Someone's looking into it. what with all the evidence being altered or disappearing from the DWP website.

it was all there in it's glory until they realised that it wasn't just people on the dole who may want to read it :)

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

I really don't know who they're trying to kid. "you must do this or you may lose benefit" is a standard line on almost every letter they send to anyone for any reason.

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

Ouch. That video is embarrassing. I don't know why the government is continuing with the scheme, it just seems like they are onto a loser and should bail out now.

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

Sadly that is something there very good at wiping the trails of evidence.

There actually good staff who help you whisper things too you as help but however there is some right power hitlers. Its those ones you goto avoid if you can after few weeks you know the nasties the crooked ones. You treaded very carefully around these.

Few moons back when needed them we saw hitler mark 2 cow she was evil tried to destroy your self esteem. One day she went too far with verbals character assasinations she even had her own staff in tears at times. She got fired finally god knows why it tooks so long sure she bedding the boss, how everyone laughed at her when she turned up to sign on the dole. Staff made her life misery who she hurt with spiteful mouth she deserved everything she got us calling her too.

Sadly there is history doing one thing then denying it covering tracks so impossible to prove it.


Best solution at times is record conversations with them. Keep all documentation that way they try deny things you got them.

I find it not suprising politian dont know what he on about he thinks its one way it completely wrong on the ground.

Its happened for years from all parties politians being dettached from his post. Civil Servants know more then whitehall like polititians at times these usually the first port of call. How many polititians actually go into the field find out themselves or send spies to act on there half get true reflection of issues how it is.

They might just one day stand there actually know what they doing or saying instead being made a mug.

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

Well guess what:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-17200688

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

Good - hopefully this will mean a bigger uptake, with more firms taking part, and with more of the job-seekers gaining employment at the end of the work experience.

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

Good news indeed though it makes you wonder why the communication was so bad in the BBC article it said ministers were saying it was voluntary ,and job centres saying it was compulsory left hand right hand and all that.:erm:

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

I think it's a mistake ,the government should have stuck to their guns with this .Given the demographic that this scheme is aimed at there has to be some sort of consequence for dropping out without a good reason ,that is part of the training i would have thought

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

Good news Marty. the sanctions have only been removed from the one of the work programs. and if nobody volunteers to go on that one without sanctions, they'll put them on the mandatory one instead.

So no doubt those who are against 'slave labour' will focus on this one now. and this one will probably have to be changed too. because afterall, the point was being forced to work for no wage.

and they'll be basing this argument solely on a few points.
(Loss of benefits for not wanting to work for free, minimum wage laws, not doing anything about jobs, and instead just admitting defeat and getting something out of them to keep the voters happy, boosting companies profits, loss of real jobs available due to free labour)

it should be fun.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/b...xperience.html

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

Marty it is only a good scheme if the right people are on it under the right circumstances and that wasn't the case and the government got found out. No one has a problem with a truly voluntary scheme that enables those who want to show that they could be good employee's for a given company but when your forcing people on are you really doing what is best for the age group as a whole. It is hard enough to be taken seriously when looking for a job without having a waste of space doing all they can to sabotage everyone else by being a disruptive useless article.


We will have to get to a stage in this contry where there is more then enough job oppurtunitys for everyone wanting a job before we can clearly identify the work shy brigade and deal with them, sadly that won't happen anytime soon.

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

No, the point was to give them some work experience to make them more employable.

I see a glass half-full - you assume someone has wee'ed in the glass.;)

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

On that point Hugh both my two sons had work expierience whilst still at school not when they left i remember getting one son a job at the hospital i worked in completely voluntary.

Chris Grayling flip flopping on radio five live now.;)

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

Yup - my kids too.

But this is to get some recent work experience on people's CVs, not something they did in year 10 or 11.

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

Yeh, I heard that one too.

They have weed in the glass. it's yellow ;)

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

The whole point of this program was for it to be aimed at 18-24yr olds many of wome come from families who have never had any workers in it .These type of children need to learn that work isn't a dirty word .They need the basic experience of getting up and facing the responsibility of going to work on a daily basis along with the consequencies of not going .If people don't go to work they get docked pay ,if people don't attend on this scheme they should get docked jsa .Learning the consequencies of not going to work is just as important as learning the job itself .All that will happen now is that more 18-24yr olds will be placed on compulsory work schemes and non attendance will definately mean they face sanctions

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

good threats removed there many reason why it need to be there from being treat badly, bullying and other reasons like they was using you as no job available.

What you think is valid reason for pulling not necessary jobcentre's. YTS scheme they had person visit you so you tell them they would do spot checks without warning.

I still not happy the scheme allows business to circumvent paying a training fee or even paying those willing token pay ontop of JSA.

The programme clearly need more work but these should been done before they stupidly released it. Guarantee interview should be relplaced guarantee JOB. If you shown your good enough there is job why the heck should it be lottery. No oversubscibing position with placements 1 for 1 system. You could get situation 5 placements all terrific workers only 1 space is it fair 4 lose out nope. Better regulation strict rules should make sure companies dont us this as abuse.

These should only take placements if job at end is there no job no placement. Strict guides to competance too. If person upto the standard it should not be just employer decision it should be collective colleagues afterall they will be working with them. So they dont trudge they was not good enough when clearly they was and got on with other staff members.

Martyn no quite simply your wrong. Would you work for nothing forced labour for JSA have no way out if issues arise. Entrapped with literagation company abusing you no job at the end if you work hard. Safety net should be implace.

I actually think the government stick approach is shocking why not put a carrot infront.

At present rules state JSA claiment can only earn think its paltry £15 surely giving them little money i there pocket for voluntaring should be done. If they doing work for nothing then surely they deserve reconision for so by bit EXTRA in there pockets.

---------- Post added at 19:14 ---------- Previous post was at 19:03 ----------

Sorry but this totally misses the point.

I will tell you this those who you refer to would go to these schemes if they got £30 extra in there pocket without being effecting there claim. That would be nothing to companies like tesco.

Yes they need help to get on the rung of work. Like I have always said treat people as trash they act like trash. Show respect by offering reward you will see change atitude.

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

As long as he and others don't think that anyone that's unemployed should be made to go and work at the likes of Tescos for free, as a way of saying sorry for not having a job like them :)

because it means I've got to explain to them why someone they know who worked and got paid there has either had their hours reduced or been made redundant, and have now got to go and work somewhere else for free.

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

yep heared the same when the proverbal hits the fan there be all hell break loose. I heared overtime been banned relation wont say which one she works reliied on this for extra money.

I actually noticed when you shop there is bit atmosphere in shops with workers morale low. They scared of there jobs naturally but then certain people would love to see there low wage job kicked out replaced workfare.

First they came ... poem is apt we will see the circumventing of minimum wage. Those who think they safe from this might think when there high tech job now minimum wage paye as new minimum pay is JSA.

There saying when you give them inch they will take a mile.

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

I've never heard so much crap in all my life .If either of you had bothered to research this you would realise that non of what you are saying happens ,is actually happening both of you are just making stuff up .

I'm out of here untill sanity resumes

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

That article is dated 30 Nov 2011 and is about the Autumn statement..Let's deal in the here and now..:rolleyes:

---------- Post added at 20:02 ---------- Previous post was at 19:56 ----------

I think that this sums up what the scheme should be about nicely and if Bernardos are happy with the scheme as it is so am I.

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

Not being pedantic Maggy but i take it you have changed your mind about this scheme as before you were agreeing with the guardian article that called it exploitative and low paid low skilled employment , and seemed quite against it.

Is it just the barnardos statement that made you change your mind because the jobs on offer have not.?:confused:


It is easy to imagine how wizard the idea must have looked from the work and pensions minister's corner office. Work experience does make people more employable – and it should be open to benefit claimants, not just those with better-off parents who can subsidise them. But it is also easy to see how offensive it is to perform boring, menial, or simply pointless tasks for major retailers without being paid. And when it means working for employers who make billions of pounds each year (or, as at A4e, where bosses take millions in public money as bonuses), it is simply exploitative.


In post 71.

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

It was the suggestion it was mandatory and that benefit would be removed if they didn't get what they expected from the scheme that made me cross.Also I suspect that all the large companies involved(and charities) will ensure that it is REAL works experience now the public eye is on the scheme not just stacking shelves and make do work..

I still have some reservations such as just how many placements can be offered if jobseekers actually get a job at the end of the placement and a company has less jobs/spaces available as a consequence.There must be a finite amount of actual jobs available especially as there are pockets of high unemployment around the country.Plus I'm wondering how good the 'training' aspects will be and if there are any real usable qualifications to be earned as a consequence.

And yes I do trust Barnados to have the age group concerned interests at heart.They are an organisation who deal with disadvantaged youngsters and know and understand that many 16-25 year olds from broken homes and social care are the very ones who do end up with a poor education and a lack of self confidence and do need a lot of support that is not always available from the government agencies after they are thrown off social care at 16.If they think it can work then I can get behind this scheme.

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

Fair enough and you raise some very good points i would think the answer to the qestion of wether these jobs lead to worthwile qualifications will be kept a good eye on by the press.

And those that have spoken out about the scheme have done some good if this is the case.

I do know about banardos main work but wonder if they are full appraised i hope they have been better appraised then the minister chris grayling.

Lets now see how it all pans out.:)

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

I'm positive that Barnardos understand the issues for disadvantaged unemployed youngsters.
http://www.barnardos.org.uk/commissi...se_studies.htm
http://www.barnardos.org.uk/resource...p?pid=PUB-1467
http://www.barnardos.org.uk/resource...p?pid=PUB-1361

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

Funnily enough, the founder of the Big Issue magazine agrees with Barnados.

Times (behind a paywall)

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

Aren't Barnados doing mandatory unpaid work placements on the Work Programme?

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

Truly shocking. His arrogance carried on with hard evidence been said to him.

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/20...pulsory-unpaid

Talk about changes

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

Says it all really .As if an adviser is going to care one way or the other if someone goes on a scheme .Maybe if the claimant had a better attitude or wasn't so paranoid then he may get a job

Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
 

Age discrimination at its finest. Its illegal yet the DWP does it on a large scale.

martyh have I forgotten something or is there less jobs than unemployed. Also job availability is variable across regions.

I cant stand comments like "just get a job". As if its simple to do.