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-   -   Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33685162)

Kymmy 05-02-2012 20:28
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
You have to remember that during the '82 war the naval aircraft during the conflict were limited and semi-scarce.. So they didn't do any night defence or much ground attack.. This time we wouldn't be relying on these with the current typhoons probably the equivelant to all the harriers in the task force. Also Argentine are still relying on the older Mirages which failed so miserably last time.

Tim Deegan 05-02-2012 20:28
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35376441)
No they won't because far too many of their planes will be shot down and it'd be impossible for their supply lines to be sufficiently maintained by air given their exisiting capability.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Deegan (Post 35376351)
The Falkland Islands consist of 778 islands that cover 4700 square miles. Now although the type 45's weapons have a range of up to 70 miles. They simply can't cover the whole of the Falklands at once, to prevent troop landings.
Or even one type 45, and 4 Typhoons

Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35376441)
Last time was very different.

I think we're all agreed that the current situation re the UK's aircraft carrier capability is shocking and that if we had a couple available it'd be a great deterrent.

I dare say provision has been made to destroy the airfield by hook or by crook should that be deemed necessary as a last resort - doing so would require the Argentinians to parachute in everything whilst dodging a whole lot of state of the art missiles. It's also possible that submarine lauched missiles could target Argentinian airbases but that would be upping the stakes somewhat.
I still think that we are underestimating them, just as Maggie did in the 80's.

Have you ever seen the program on one of the discovery channels about how close we came to losing last time. And that is was just a combination of events that we were very lucky with, that saved the day for us?

Kymmy 05-02-2012 20:34
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Deegan (Post 35376474)
I still think that we are underestimating them, just as Maggie did in the 80's.
Yet we won.. and since then their capability hasn't changed yet ours has... We might have lost our carrier base but this time I don't think they'll get to the island never mind occupy it..

Tim Deegan 05-02-2012 20:37
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kymmy (Post 35376473)
You have to remember that during the '82 war the naval aircraft during the conflict were limited and semi-scarce.. So they didn't do any night defence or much ground attack.. This time we wouldn't be relying on these with the current typhoons probably the equivelant to all the harriers in the task force. Also Argentine are still relying on the older Mirages which failed so miserably last time.
Do our Typhoons have full ground attack capability now? They were criticised recently because they didn't have.

Although I realise that the Typhoons have a massive advantage over the Mirage. It only takes one lucky shot by SAM, or air to air missiles, or even a mechanical failure, to knock out 25% of out fast jets. Then there is maintenance and resupplying the aircraft, which all takes time.

So my point is that our defences could be completely overwhelmed.

I'm concerned that a mad, overconfident Argentinian general, could cost a lot of lives. When he probably wouldn't even try if we had our carriers.

Osem 05-02-2012 20:37
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
Nobody thinks it'd be easy - but it isn't the same as last time and we're better placed now than we/they were then despite the lack of carriers. Now if we had no subs either that'd be a different story.......

Tim Deegan 05-02-2012 20:40
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kymmy (Post 35376479)
Yet we won.. and since then their capability hasn't changed yet ours has... We might have lost our carrier base but this time I don't think they'll get to the island never mind occupy it..
AS I keep saying...never under estimate the enemy. It can come back and bite you.

---------- Post added at 21:40 ---------- Previous post was at 21:38 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35376483)
Nobody thinks it'd be easy - but it isn't the same as last time and we're better placed now than we/they were then despite the lack of carriers.
I really do hope you are right. But it could cost the lives of many British soldiers to find out.

Osem 05-02-2012 20:43
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Deegan (Post 35376484)
I really do hope you are right. But it could cost the lives of many British soldiers to find out.
Sad but true. As is the case in every confilct. Let's hope the Argentinians don't buy their leaders' rhetoric en masse......

Tim Deegan 05-02-2012 20:43
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35376441)
It's also possible that submarine lauched missiles could target Argentinian airbases but that would be upping the stakes somewhat.
You are right, it would be upping the stakes. Remember last time there was a top secret SAS mission to take out aircraft on Argentinian soil.

Also last time we had full backing from America. This time we don't.

Kymmy 05-02-2012 20:50
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Deegan (Post 35376488)
Also last time we had full backing from America. This time we don't.
We had partial backing from the USA.. full support would have meant a US task force :rolleyes: There's no reason as to why we wouldn't get the same support

Tim Deegan 05-02-2012 20:54
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kymmy (Post 35376492)
We had partial backing from the USA.. full support would have meant a US task force :rolleyes: There's no reason as to why we wouldn't get the same support
Ok, partial backing. But this time they aren't backing us....there is oil involved this time.

Hugh 05-02-2012 20:56
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
Since nothing is actually happening, besides rhetoric, there is nothing to back....

chris9991 05-02-2012 21:02
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
If I can put my crazy hat for one moment; what about China? I could see there being an interest in China into who controlled the islands if there is oil. China would like to increase its own oil supply to meet domestic demand and it may try to do a deal with Argentina in supplying military capability. This might seem far fetched but China have been buying a lot of influence in South America so that it could gain access to the raw materials. China might also be interested to test its military capability against a highly defended island and see what lessons it could learn in what it takes to do so.

I don't think China would want to rock the boat but it is capable on going it's own way - just look at the veto in the security council at the UN with regards to Syria

Kymmy 05-02-2012 21:05
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Deegan (Post 35376497)
Ok, partial backing. But this time they aren't backing us....there is oil involved this time.
Did a friendly policeman tell you that as well :rofl:

Oil is very likely to get the US involved, they'd rather deal with the UK over any resources than a South American country.. They've taken that route before and severely regretted South American involvement

Tim Deegan 05-02-2012 21:16
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris9991 (Post 35376504)
If I can put my crazy hat for one moment; what about China? I could see there being an interest in China into who controlled the islands if there is oil. China would like to increase its own oil supply to meet domestic demand and it may try to do a deal with Argentina in supplying military capability. This might seem far fetched but China have been buying a lot of influence in South America so that it could gain access to the raw materials. China might also be interested to test its military capability against a highly defended island and see what lessons it could learn in what it takes to do so.

I don't think China would want to rock the boat but it is capable on going it's own way - just look at the veto in the security council at the UN with regards to Syria
Steady, we hadn't even thought of that one...lol

chris9991 05-02-2012 21:23
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
I did say it was my crazy hat ;)

Alan Fry 06-02-2012 09:26
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35375488)
LMAO.

You want to put "what remains of the British Armed forces (after Afg(h)anistan) to be based at the RAF base!".

OK, and I know this may hurt, but how about Mr Reality coming to visit, just this once.

RAF Mount Pleasant can currently hold between 1000 and 2000 personnel, and the current Falkland Islands population (not including the visiting servicepeople) is approx 3000.

Won't it get a bit crowded with 90,000 army personnel, 30,000 TA, 30,000 Navy personnel, 35,000 RAF personnel, 1000 aircraft, 97 active service ships, and all the tanks and artillery?
I meant enough to protect the islands from a full scale invasion from Argentina, RAF Mount Pleasant might a have to be expanded as well

---------- Post added at 10:21 ---------- Previous post was at 10:17 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35375568)
If all concerned actually read the history rather than tub-thumping over the bits of it that support their cause, Uruguay's status as a sovereign nation would be up for debate as well. After all, at the same time as the Falklands were part of the Viceroyalty of the River Plate, so was the territory north and east of the river estuary where Uruguay is now established.

Perhaps we should do as the Argentines argue, and ask the aboriginal peoples of that area what they think of Argentina and Uruguay. Mustn't ask the ethnic Europeans though, they're non-native and therefore they don't count.
I guessing that Argentina will now claim Uruguay, Paraguay and Bolivia as well then!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viceroy...Do_de_la_Plata

---------- Post added at 10:23 ---------- Previous post was at 10:21 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35375641)
We could mount a very effective defence of the islands with the hardware at our disposal but invasion of hostile territory would be incredibly difficult without carrier-borne aircraft.

If Argentina were to successfully invade, and maintain Mount Pleasant airfield in operational condition, they would have air supremacy over the islands, making an amphibious assault all but impossible.

There would still be options, mind you; the new Daring Class (Type 45) destroyers could set up an aerial defence blockade while our submarine force could set up a picket and deny access to the islands from the sea. But what we would then have would be a siege situation, and one which the Argentines would be better placed to ride out than we would given the inconvenient geography.
We could send a lot of the RAF and Navy to the Falklands, along with the Eurofighters!

---------- Post added at 10:25 ---------- Previous post was at 10:23 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Deegan (Post 35375734)
But they will have air superiority, which is all they need to fly troops and equipment in, and to launch air attacks on our ships.

Without the carriers we wouldn't have won last time.
We could also use the P&O and Cunard ships to send in the Army in large numbers!

---------- Post added at 10:26 ---------- Previous post was at 10:25 ----------

We could send some Nulclear Missile Submarines to the Falklands!

Hugh 06-02-2012 09:41
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
That may be a little "over-kill", Alan.....

Nuking Buenos Aires in retaliation for a couple of sheep - brings a whole new meaning to "asymmetric warfare"...

Pierre 06-02-2012 09:53
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35376668)
Nuking Buenos Aires in retaliation for a couple of sheep
Yeah, but if it works, we could then do it to Cardiff.

Hugh 06-02-2012 09:54
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
Good point, well made....

Maggy 06-02-2012 10:24
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
Let's at least finish with one war zone before we move onto another..:rolleyes:

blackthorn 06-02-2012 12:06
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Fry (Post 35376651)
[/COLOR]We could send some Nulclear Missile Submarines to the Falklands!
You never know, there might be already one down there. As they are a deterrent we are not supposed to know where they are. Although Conquerer got all the limelight, she wasnt the only boat down there at the time.

Alan Fry 06-02-2012 13:13
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35376668)
That may be a little "over-kill", Alan.....

Nuking Buenos Aires in retaliation for a couple of sheep - brings a whole new meaning to "asymmetric warfare"...
It would a Deterrent against a invasion by Argentina!

---------- Post added at 14:13 ---------- Previous post was at 14:12 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggy J (Post 35376696)
Let's at least finish with one war zone before we move onto another..:rolleyes:
We will be over the next few years!

Hugh 06-02-2012 13:17
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Fry (Post 35376825)
It would a Deterrent against a invasion by Argentina!
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2012/02/44.jpg

So you are proposing incinerating nearly three million people, to deter the invasion of some islands with 3000 people and some sheep - you need to seriously re-evaluate your priorities.....

Alan Fry 06-02-2012 13:33
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35376835)
http://motivationalmaker.com/saved_p...87qndq3o76.jpg

So you are proposing incinerating nearly three million people, to deter the invasion of some islands with 3000 people and some sheep - you need to seriously re-evaluate your priorities.....
It is very, very, very, very unlikely that we would ever used them, but it is to prevent an invasion of the Falklands, we did spend Billions on this so this is a usful use of nuclear weapons!

The UK have never launched a Nuclear Bomb, only the USA have and that was 1945!

Those 3000 people are subjects of the UK!

martyh 06-02-2012 15:09
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Fry (Post 35376858)
It is very, very, very, very unlikely that we would ever used them, but it is to prevent an invasion of the Falklands, we did spend Billions on this so this is a usful use of nuclear weapons!

The UK have never launched a Nuclear Bomb, only the USA have and that was 1945!

Those 3000 people are subjects of the UK!
So you think that Argentina will think that we will be prepared to use nuclear weapons to protect 3000 people

Not that i think they ever would invade but we wouldn't use nuclear weapons and Argentina knows that so as a deterrant in this case they are useless

TheDaddy 06-02-2012 15:11
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35376835)
So you are proposing incinerating nearly three million people, to deter the invasion of some islands with 3000 people and some sheep - you need to seriously re-evaluate your priorities.....
Think about all the oil you'd be liberating to...

---------- Post added at 16:11 ---------- Previous post was at 16:10 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Fry (Post 35376858)
The UK have never launched a Nuclear Bomb, only the USA have and that was 1945!
I think you'll find we've launched our share...

DocDutch 06-02-2012 17:34
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
I doubt that the UK would send nuclear ballistic submarines to the falklands but hunter killer subs will already be there 1 for sure as that is standard operations for the royal navy and that will have some sbs troops on boards if they need to be used.

raf mount pleasant can hold at most a squadron of euros anymore and they would be out in the open

Tim Deegan 06-02-2012 17:42
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35376668)
That may be a little "over-kill", Alan.....

Nuking Buenos Aires in retaliation for a couple of sheep - brings a whole new meaning to "asymmetric warfare"...
Well he does have some wild ideas....that are actually very worrying :erm:

Chris 06-02-2012 18:09
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocDutch (Post 35377053)
I doubt that the UK would send nuclear ballistic submarines to the falklands but hunter killer subs will already be there 1 for sure as that is standard operations for the royal navy and that will have some sbs troops on boards if they need to be used.

raf mount pleasant can hold at most a squadron of euros anymore and they would be out in the open
You're right, we will not be sending our nuclear deterrent to the South Atlantic. The Trident system is a strategic weapon designed to prevent a nuclear assault on the UK's home territory, not sabre-rattling by second division south American republics.

When you hear talk of 'nuclear submarines' heading for the Falklands, 'nuclear' refers to the sub's power plant and is an indication of its ability to remain on station, submerged and undetected, for a very long time.

In 1982, one torpedo from one British submarine was enough to force the entire Argentine navy back into port for the duration of the war. Memories of the General Belgrano will still be sharp within the Argentine military and this weekend's very rare leak about British submarine movements will have been calculated to poke that old wound and give any hawks in their defence ministry pause for thought.

DocDutch 06-02-2012 18:30
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
Yeah nobody likes sending in ships when a couple of nuclear hunter subs roaming about.

Hugh 06-02-2012 18:41
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
A Trafalgar-class HK can spoil your day, for sure....

Maggy 06-02-2012 19:19
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Fry (Post 35376825)
It would a Deterrent against a invasion by Argentina!

---------- Post added at 14:13 ---------- Previous post was at 14:12 ----------



We will be over the next few years!
Utter Piffle!:rolleyes:

Tim Deegan 06-02-2012 21:40
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Fry (Post 35376825)
It would a Deterrent against a invasion by Argentina!
You never fail to amaze us with your rediculous remarks.

Nuclear missiles are not a deterrent against conventional invasion of a group of islands in the south atlantic. They are supposed to be a deterrent against a nuclear attack. As no country would launch a nuclear attack in such a situation.

There are probably two or three submarines in the area, but if they ever did have to launch weapons against Argentina, then they would only be conventional.

---------- Post added at 22:40 ---------- Previous post was at 22:37 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 35376954)
I think you'll find we've launched our share...
Where did you get that idea from??

DocDutch 07-02-2012 05:37
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Deegan (Post 35377181)
You never fail to amaze us with your rediculous remarks.

Nuclear missiles are not a deterrent against conventional invasion of a group of islands in the south atlantic. They are supposed to be a deterrent against a nuclear attack. As no country would launch a nuclear attack in such a situation.

There are probably two or three submarines in the area, but if they ever did have to launch weapons against Argentina, then they would only be conventional.

---------- Post added at 22:40 ---------- Previous post was at 22:37 ----------



Where did you get that idea from??
all countries that have nukes have tested their weapons

danielf 07-02-2012 09:01
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35377082)
Memories of the General Belgrano will still be sharp within the Argentine military and this weekend's very rare leak about British submarine movements will have been calculated to poke that old wound and give any hawks in their defence ministry pause for thought.
Indeed. So much so, that they've renamed the Football Competition in her memory.

Quote:
BUENOS AIRES, Argentina (AP) -As tension rises over the 30th anniversary of the deadly war between Britain and Argentina over the Falkland Islands, the Argentine government has named the upcoming football season in honor a naval ship sunk by British torpedoes in the conflict.
The season, which begins Friday, will be the known as the first division "Crucero General Belgrano,'' or Cruiser General Belgrano in English.

Tim Deegan 07-02-2012 09:04
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocDutch (Post 35377227)
all countries that have nukes have tested their weapons
They haven't launched them with warheads. They have launched the missiles, and they have detonated the warheads. But not at the same time, and not in an attack on another country.

Chris 07-02-2012 09:20
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielf (Post 35377283)
Indeed. So much so, that they've renamed the Football Competition in her memory.
There's a very interesting double game going on here. While the FCO keeps repeating the lines about routine deployment and not commenting on submarine movements, senior officers in the RAF and RN have obviously been given a nod and a wink from someone at the MOD to make deployments, and comments upon them.

The British government is presenting a diplomatic and principled face to the world at large whilst allowing the military to dance a Hakka off the coast of Argentina.

Alan Fry 07-02-2012 09:42
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35377082)
You're right, we will not be sending our nuclear deterrent to the South Atlantic. The Trident system is a strategic weapon designed to prevent a nuclear assault on the UK's home territory, not sabre-rattling by second division south American republics.

When you hear talk of 'nuclear submarines' heading for the Falklands, 'nuclear' refers to the sub's power plant and is an indication of its ability to remain on station, submerged and undetected, for a very long time.

In 1982, one torpedo from one British submarine was enough to force the entire Argentine navy back into port for the duration of the war. Memories of the General Belgrano will still be sharp within the Argentine military and this weekend's very rare leak about British submarine movements will have been calculated to poke that old wound and give any hawks in their defence ministry pause for thought.
Does anyone know if the Royal Navy is sending nuclear submarines to the Falklands!

Chris 07-02-2012 10:50
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
Yes, they are. That fact was leaked to the Press at the weekend. Cameron and Hague have both since refused to confirm or deny it because it is Government policy not to discuss submarine deployments, however you can be sure the reason we're all talking about it is that they (the military, at least) wants us to.

Tim Deegan 07-02-2012 10:57
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35377349)
Yes, they are. That fact was leaked to the Press at the weekend. Cameron and Hague have both since refused to confirm or deny it because it is Government policy not to discuss submarine deployments, however you can be sure the reason we're all talking about it is that they (the military, at least) wants us to.
But not to fire nukes at Argentina as Alan thinks we should threaten them with.

Chris 07-02-2012 11:12
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
No, that is not going to happen under any circumstances. To think otherwise is to inhabit a very strange fantasy universe.

Alan Fry 07-02-2012 11:27
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Deegan (Post 35377355)
But not to fire nukes at Argentina as Alan thinks we should threaten them with.
I have not suggested nuking Argentina, just placing Submarines with Nuclear Weapons at the Falklands!

Tim Deegan 07-02-2012 11:28
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Fry (Post 35377381)
I have not suggested nuking Argentina, just placing Submarines with Nuclear Weapons at the Falklands!
And what would that achieve, when Argentina know full well that we would NEVER use them against them???

Alan Fry 07-02-2012 11:31
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Deegan (Post 35377385)
And what would that achieve, when Argentina know ful well that we would NEVER use them against them???
I meant, very, very unlikely to use them!

martyh 07-02-2012 11:33
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Fry (Post 35377381)
I have not suggested nuking Argentina, just placing Submarines with Nuclear Weapons at the Falklands!
and just why would you do that ?.As i explained to you earlier doing that is not a deterant because Argentina know that we would not use them for what is in the big picture a trivial matter .If we did that we would risk escalating the whole afair into a mutli national incident of the type faced by America in the Cuban crisis .

Alan Fry 07-02-2012 11:34
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35377389)
and just why would you do that ?.As i explained to you earlier doing that is not a deterant because Argentina know that we would not use them for what is in the big picture a trivial matter .If we did that we would risk escalating the whole afair into a mutli national incident of the type faced by America in the Cuban crisis .
We would only use them if Argentina invaded the Falklands!

martyh 07-02-2012 11:36
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Fry (Post 35377392)
We would only use them if Argentina invaded the Falklands!
NO WE WOULD NOT .It is the most ridiculous suggestion you have made to date

Tim Deegan 07-02-2012 11:37
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Fry (Post 35377387)
I meant, very, very unlikely to use them!
Not "very, very, unlikely". We would NEVER use them against them, and they know that, so they wouldn't be a deterrent to an invasion of the Falklands.

Alan Fry 07-02-2012 11:37
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35377396)
NO WE WOULD NOT .It is the most ridiculous suggestion you have made to date
Fine then! :(

danielf 07-02-2012 11:37
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
No we wouldn't. Nukes are meant for mass scale destruction and are sure to result in massive civilian casualties. If Argentina tried to invade the Falklands, we'd target their military, not their civilians.

Tim Deegan 07-02-2012 11:38
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35377396)
NO WE WOULD NOT .It is the most ridiculous suggestion you have made to date
And he has made a few!

Alan Fry 07-02-2012 11:40
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Deegan (Post 35377398)
Not "very, very, unlikely". We would NEVER use them against them, and they know that, so they wouldn't be a deterrent to an invasion of the Falklands.
Well I was the fear of the use of Nulclear weapons that stopped a war between the USSR and USA!

---------- Post added at 12:39 ---------- Previous post was at 12:38 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Deegan (Post 35377401)
And he has made a few!
For Goodness sake!!! :mad:

---------- Post added at 12:40 ---------- Previous post was at 12:39 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by danielf (Post 35377400)
No we wouldn't. Nukes are meant for mass scale destruction and are sure to result in massive civilian casualties. If Argentina tried to invade the Falklands, we'd target their military, not their civilians.
That is the point, it would stop an invasion by Argentina!

danielf 07-02-2012 11:41
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Fry (Post 35377402)
That is the point, it would stop an invasion by Argentina!
Stop being so ridiculous. It would not stop an invasion because the Argentinians know we wouldn't use them. :rolleyes:

martyh 07-02-2012 11:41
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Fry (Post 35377399)
Fine then! :(
you say that with a sad smilie ......almost as if you are sad that we wont ,seriousy dude get a reality check

Tim Deegan 07-02-2012 11:48
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Fry (Post 35377402)
Well I was the fear of the use of Nulclear weapons that stopped a war between the USSR and USA!
And that's because it was a stalemate with both countries pointing missiles at each other.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Fry (Post 35377402)
That is the point, it would stop an invasion by Argentina!
And it would involve us in a massive multinational conflict. If we use nuclear weapons against a country that gave us no nuclear threat, then the rest of the world would turn against us.

Alan Fry 07-02-2012 11:48
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
Well can we at least send some more of our armed forces to the Falklands after Afgansitan!

Tim Deegan 07-02-2012 11:50
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35377409)
you say that with a sad smilie ......almost as if you are sad that we wont ,seriousy dude get a reality check
Do you think Alan has war games set up in his bedroom. And when his mum tells him it's time for bed, he finishes the game by pretending to nuke the enemy, and knocks them all flying off the table?

martyh 07-02-2012 11:51
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Fry (Post 35377427)
Well can we at least send some more of our armed forces to the Falklands after Afgansitan!
NO!,
What is this fascination of yours with sending troops in ,annexing countries and using nuclear weapons ,are you 10yrs old or something ?

Alan Fry 07-02-2012 11:52
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Deegan (Post 35377430)
Do you think Alan has war games set up in his bedroom. And when his mum tells him it's time for bed, he finishes the game by pretending to nuke the enemy, and knocks them all flying off the table?
I am middle aged thank you very much!

---------- Post added at 12:52 ---------- Previous post was at 12:52 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35377432)
NO!,
What is this fascination of yours with sending troops in ,annexing countries and using nuclear weapons ,are you 10yrs old or something ?
I just want a better society!

Also, I am not 10!

martyh 07-02-2012 11:59
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Fry (Post 35377433)
I am middle aged thank you very much!

---------- Post added at 12:52 ---------- Previous post was at 12:52 ----------



I just want a better society!

Also, I am not 10!
well act your age then and use a bit of common sense instead of posting that kind of drivel

Reality check for Mr Fry .
The current issue re Argentina and the Falklands will be sorted out by very boring diplomatic means .There will be no war ,no nuclear weapons used or threatened to be used and 1000's of troops will not be mobilised .In fact we will probably blink and miss any resolutions that are reached

Hom3r 07-02-2012 11:59
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
Well the Argies might block the flights from Chile flighing oover Argie airspace, which take food / goods & Chilean workers to the Falklands.

OK then can they not fly over the south pole?

blackthorn 07-02-2012 12:00
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
Theres actually no need to put a bomber near the Falklands, with a trident having a range of 12000 km and the Falklands being a touch over 12000 km from to uk to there. We could, but wont, fire them from anywhere.

Tim Deegan 07-02-2012 12:03
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Fry (Post 35377433)
I am middle aged thank you very much!

---------- Post added at 12:52 ---------- Previous post was at 12:52 ----------



I just want a better society!

Also, I am not 10!
"Middle Aged" :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

There will be no society if countries start throwing nuclear weapons about.

Alan Fry 07-02-2012 12:04
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35377439)
well act your age then and use a bit of common sense instead of posting that kind of drivel

Reality check for Mr Fry .
The current issue re Argentina and the Falklands will be sorted out by very boring diplomatic means .There will be no war ,no nuclear weapons used or threatened to be used and 1000's of troops will not be mobilised .In fact we will probably blink and miss any resolutions that are reached
What would happen is that is dispute will carry on and things will remain the same, as it has done for hundreds of years (bar 1982)

Damien 07-02-2012 12:27
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
Can we move on from the nuclear weapons discussion? Everyone knows where everyone stands on it and it's being going on in a circle for a few pages now.

Alan Fry 07-02-2012 12:27
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35377468)
Can we move on from the nuclear weapons discussion? Everyone knows where everyone stands on it and it's being going on in a circle for a few pages now.
Sorry!

TheDaddy 07-02-2012 16:48
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Deegan (Post 35377286)
They haven't launched them with warheads. They have launched the missiles, and they have detonated the warheads. But not at the same time, and not in an attack on another country.
That wasn't Alan's question...

Chris 07-02-2012 17:07
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
Can we now please steer this discussion back on topic. No more posts about nuclear missiles, they are pointless and do not advance the discussion of the actual current events unfolding between the UK and Argentina.

Hugh 07-02-2012 17:16
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
In today's Guardian - link
Quote:
Argentina names top football league after ship sunk in Falklands war
And here is, imho, an empty gesture reported in yesterday's Telegraph
Quote:
The eight member countries of the Bolivarian Alliance bloc, or ALBA, met to approve an agreement barring any boats flying Falkland Island flags from docking in their ports.
I wonder if any actually exist?

Sirius 07-02-2012 19:46
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Fry (Post 35377427)
Well can we at least send some more of our armed forces to the Falklands after Afgansitan!
claptrap we don't have enough armed forces left thanks to cuts

Maggy 07-02-2012 22:09
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35377785)
In today's Guardian - link

And here is, imho, an empty gesture reported in yesterday's Telegraph I wonder if any actually exist?
Their loss financially..

Mick 07-02-2012 22:26
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
Breaking News from AFP: Argentina says it will present a formal complaint in the UN over what it calls 'Britains Militarisation' in the Falklands.

http://news.sky.com/home/world-news/article/16165366

Is there any substance to their complaint?

Chris 07-02-2012 22:29
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
No ... it's British sovereign territory, military movements there are nobody's business but ours.

Mick 07-02-2012 23:10
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
That's what I was thinking. ;)

Osem 08-02-2012 08:15
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
Times really must be hard in Argentina. I feel sorry for the ordinary people there who're being manipulated in this manner.

Tim Deegan 08-02-2012 08:30
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 35377770)
That wasn't Alan's question...
I wasn't answering Alan, I was answering you and DocDutch

---------- Post added at 09:30 ---------- Previous post was at 09:28 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35377917)
No ... it's British sovereign territory, military movements there are nobody's business but ours.
Agreed!

Chris 08-02-2012 08:43
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35378000)
Times really must be hard in Argentina. I feel sorry for the ordinary people there who're being manipulated in this manner.
I almost feel sorry for Kirchner as well. She has made this her key foreign policy objective, which displays either shocking ignorance or hopeless naivety .... having set herself an aim that anyone outside of Argentina can see is unattainable, all she has actually achieved is to lay the foundations for her downfall. When the voters start to realise she can't deliver, they will simply judge her weak and ineffective.

Tim Deegan 08-02-2012 09:10
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35378016)
I almost feel sorry for Kirchner as well. She has made this her key foreign policy objective, which displays either shocking ignorance or hopeless naivety .... having set herself an aim that anyone outside of Argentina can see is unattainable, all she has actually achieved is to lay the foundations for her downfall. When the voters start to realise she can't deliver, they will simply judge her weak and ineffective.
She will probably drag the negotiations out for as long as possible, just to stay in office.

Chris 08-02-2012 09:33
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Deegan (Post 35378042)
She will probably drag the negotiations out for as long as possible, just to stay in office.
As of right now she's riding a wave of public patriotism. Apparently there were crowds outside El Presidente's palace last night after her speech to veterans about how they're going to get the Falklands back. Mind you, General Galtieri enjoyed similar support for as long as the population thought his 'policy' on the Falklands was a winner. It turned sour for him pretty quickly after HM Armed Forces brought the policy to a rapid halt.

The key thing to remember, however, is that there are no negotiations, and nor will there be any. The British Government has made clear that as far as it is concerned, there is nothing to negotiate. The Falklands are legally held British territory inhabited by British citizens whose occupation and government is every bit as legitimate as the overwhelmingly ethnic European occupation and government of South America (which Kirchner herself describes as Latin America, a term I think I'd be slightly peeved at if I were an Amerindian native of that continent).

Argentina's territorial claim over the Falklands is at odds with its disinterest in pursuing claims on the mainland over territory that was at one time or other governed by the Spanish Crown's Viceroy based in Buenos Aires - such as, for example, most if not all of modern-day Uruguay.

Kirchner's gambit can continue for only as long as she can convince her people she is making progress. As they are not going to get what they actually want - negotiations, leading to control of the Falklands - all she can do by way of a convincer is to continually ratchet up the rhetoric and pull stunts like grassing the UK up to the United Nations for having the temerity to send the Queen's grandson on a mission to rescue drowning fishermen, or for sending a shiny new naval vessel to replace the venerable but slightly creaky old frigate that's currently in the South Atlantic.

Tim Deegan 08-02-2012 09:39
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35378061)
As of right now she's riding a wave of public patriotism. Apparently there were crowds outside El Presidente's palace last night after her speech to veterans about how they're going to get the Falklands back. Mind you, General Galtieri enjoyed similar support for as long as the population thought his 'policy' on the Falklands was a winner. It turned sour for him pretty quickly after HM Armed Forces brought the policy to a rapid halt.
I'm afraid to admit, that I do remember it :erm:

Damien 08-02-2012 09:44
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
It's rather irritating me to see her demand peace and accuse us of militarization.

adzii_nufc 08-02-2012 11:06
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35378065)
It's rather irritating me to see her demand peace and accuse us of militarization.
Luckily she'll be more than irritated by a Nuclear Submarine parked on her beach waving a British flag.

Hom3r 08-02-2012 11:56
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
We'll have to adopt "Don't cry for me Argentina" as our national tune. :D

Mick 08-02-2012 17:04
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
I've always been aware of the Falklands War - but never really read up on it's History in great detail in terms of how once Argentina Invaded the Islands back on April 2nd 1982, we had a cat in hell's chance of getting them back.

Also interesting to note how 3rd party nations reacted. Like how the then Libya Dictator, Gaddafi supplied Argentina with Arms. :rolleyes:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia
Argentina was supported by Israeli IAI advisors, who were already in the country and continued their work during the conflict. Israel also sold weapons and crucial drop tanks that extended the combat radius of Argentine fighter-bombers, in a secret operation triangulated over Peru. Peru also openly sent "Mirages, pilots and missiles" to Argentina during the war. Through Libya, under Muammar Gaddafi, Argentina received 20 launchers and 60 missiles SA-7, as well as machine guns, mortars and mines, all in all, the load of four trips of two Boeing 707 of the AAF, refuelled in Recife with the knowledge and consent of the Brazilian government.

Tim Deegan 09-02-2012 08:48
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35378254)
I've always been aware of the Falklands War - but never really read up on it's History in great detail in terms of how once Argentina Invaded the Islands back on April 2nd 1982, we had a cat in hell's chance of getting them back.

Also interesting to note how 3rd party nations reacted. Like how the then Libya Dictator, Gaddafi supplied Argentina with Arms. :rolleyes:
And don't forget that the British government had to buy up all the stocks of exorcet missiles from around the world, to try and prevent them being sold to Argentina.

Mr Angry 09-02-2012 09:01
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Deegan (Post 35378490)
And don't forget that the British government had to buy up all the stocks of exorcet missiles from around the world, to try and prevent them being sold to Argentina.
Really?

Alan Fry 09-02-2012 09:09
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35377785)
In today's Guardian - link

And here is, imho, an empty gesture reported in yesterday's Telegraph I wonder if any actually exist?
Most ships are registered under flags like Panama and Liberia, so that ban can be bypassed!

---------- Post added at 10:08 ---------- Previous post was at 10:07 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by heero_yuy (Post 35378017)
Exactly. If the Argentinians hadn't started the sabre rattling in the first place then we wouldn't have needed to beef up the military presence there.

It's probably got more to do with trying to deflect attention from domestic issues:

The Argentine economy is “a time-bomb ticking” warns economist
I would agree with you on that!

---------- Post added at 10:09 ---------- Previous post was at 10:08 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35378016)
I almost feel sorry for Kirchner as well. She has made this her key foreign policy objective, which displays either shocking ignorance or hopeless naivety .... having set herself an aim that anyone outside of Argentina can see is unattainable, all she has actually achieved is to lay the foundations for her downfall. When the voters start to realise she can't deliver, they will simply judge her weak and ineffective.
When that happens, Argentina would launch an invasion to boost her poll ratings!

Chris 09-02-2012 09:18
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Fry (Post 35378502)
When that happens, Argentina would launch an invasion to boost her poll ratings!
No, they would not. Please stop taking the discussion round in circles. Go back and read all the previous posts about the likelihood of military action by Argentina.

Maggy 09-02-2012 09:21
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
How many times does it have to be repeated that Argentina do not have the money or the resources at this time to mount an invasion of the Falklands.They only managed it the last time because there were no British forces of any kind on the island and no naval or air presence either so they could just stroll in.

Now we have forces and an air force present as well as a naval presence..much harder for the Argentine forces to just land and walk onto the island.

So it's not going to happen.

Tim Deegan 09-02-2012 09:28
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Angry (Post 35378494)
Really?
Apparently yes!

The government were really panicking at the time because of the exorcet threat to our fleet.

It was very borderline that we were going to win anyway, so if we had lost another couple of ships, it would have tipped the balance in Argentinas favour.

Mr Angry 09-02-2012 09:31
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Deegan (Post 35378518)
Apparently yes!
Any links or further info on that?

Tim Deegan 09-02-2012 09:32
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggy J (Post 35378511)
How many times does it have to be repeated that Argentina do not have the money or the resources at this time to mount an invasion of the Falklands.They only managed it the last time because there were no British forces of any kind on the island and no naval or air presence either so they could just stroll in.

Now we have forces and an air force present as well as a naval presence..much harder for the Argentine forces to just land and walk onto the island.

So it's not going to happen.
Also, last time Argentina was ruled by a trigger happy military dictatorship.

Chris 09-02-2012 09:33
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Angry (Post 35378494)
Really?
The measures taken to combat the largely French-made aircraft and missiles that did so much damage to British forces in 1982 were revealed in the memoirs of Sir John Nott, the defence secretary at the time, published in 2002 and reported on at the time by the Telegraph:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...John-Nott.html

Quote:
"A remarkable worldwide operation then ensued to prevent further Exocets being bought by Argentina," Sir John says.

"I authorised our agents to pose as bona fide purchasers of equipment on the international market, ensuring that we outbid the Argentinians, and other agents identified Exocet missiles in markets and rendered them inoperable."
In other words, MI6 travelled the world buying Exocets. And the ones they couldn't buy, they sabotaged.

Alan Fry 09-02-2012 09:37
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35378061)
As of right now she's riding a wave of public patriotism. Apparently there were crowds outside El Presidente's palace last night after her speech to veterans about how they're going to get the Falklands back. Mind you, General Galtieri enjoyed similar support for as long as the population thought his 'policy' on the Falklands was a winner. It turned sour for him pretty quickly after HM Armed Forces brought the policy to a rapid halt.

The key thing to remember, however, is that there are no negotiations, and nor will there be any. The British Government has made clear that as far as it is concerned, there is nothing to negotiate. The Falklands are legally held British territory inhabited by British citizens whose occupation and government is every bit as legitimate as the overwhelmingly ethnic European occupation and government of South America (which Kirchner herself describes as Latin America, a term I think I'd be slightly peeved at if I were an Amerindian native of that continent).

Argentina's territorial claim over the Falklands is at odds with its disinterest in pursuing claims on the mainland over territory that was at one time or other governed by the Spanish Crown's Viceroy based in Buenos Aires - such as, for example, most if not all of modern-day Uruguay.

Kirchner's gambit can continue for only as long as she can convince her people she is making progress. As they are not going to get what they actually want - negotiations, leading to control of the Falklands - all she can do by way of a convincer is to continually ratchet up the rhetoric and pull stunts like grassing the UK up to the United Nations for having the temerity to send the Queen's grandson on a mission to rescue drowning fishermen, or for sending a shiny new naval vessel to replace the venerable but slightly creaky old frigate that's currently in the South Atlantic.
Well to put it this way, the people of the Falklands want to be part of Britain and we have ruled it for centuries, since their claim on the Falklands (Along with the South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands) is based on they face they are the successors to the Viceroyalty of the R*o de la Plata, they might as well claim Paraguay, Uruguay and Bolivia!

---------- Post added at 10:36 ---------- Previous post was at 10:34 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35378510)
No, they would not. Please stop taking the discussion round in circles. Go back and read all the previous posts about the likelihood of military action by Argentina.
You are right it is unlikely, but who know what will happen... Remember the last war helped Thacher win election afterwards, I would think that another victory would help the Tories again!

---------- Post added at 10:37 ---------- Previous post was at 10:36 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggy J (Post 35378511)
How many times does it have to be repeated that Argentina do not have the money or the resources at this time to mount an invasion of the Falklands.They only managed it the last time because there were no British forces of any kind on the island and no naval or air presence either so they could just stroll in.

Now we have forces and an air force present as well as a naval presence..much harder for the Argentine forces to just land and walk onto the island.

So it's not going to happen.
What if they got the help of other South American nations?

Tim Deegan 09-02-2012 09:40
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Angry (Post 35378525)
Any links or further info on that?
Not unless you know how to view programs that have previously been shown on the Discovery channels.

There have been a few programs abot the Falklands war that mentioned the exorcets. And there is one particular program all about how close we came to losing the war, and how lucky we were.

I'll have a search for you anyway.

Edit:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exocet

Quote:
In the years after the Falklands War it was revealed that the British government and the Secret Intelligence Service were extremely concerned by the perceived inadequacy of the Royal Navy's anti-missile defences against Exocet missiles and their potential to tip the naval war decisively in favour of Argentine forces. A scenario was envisioned in which one or both of the force's two aircraft carriers (Invincible and Hermes) would be destroyed or incapacitated by Exocet attacks, which would make recapturing the Falklands much more difficult.

Actions were taken to contain the Exocet threat. During the preparation for the war Britain benefited from the help of France, which gave the Exocet's code and homing radar.[16] A major intelligence operation was also initiated to prevent the Argentine Navy from acquiring more on the international market.[17] The operation included British intelligence agents claiming to be arms dealers able to supply large numbers of Exocet to Argentina, who diverted Argentina from pursuing sources which could genuinely supply a few missiles. France denied deliveries of Exocet AM39s purchased by Peru to avoid the possibility of them getting to Argentina.[18]

Mr Angry 09-02-2012 09:47
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35378529)
The measures taken to combat the largely French-made aircraft and missiles that did so much damage to British forces in 1982 were revealed in the memoirs of Sir John Nott, the defence secretary at the time, published in 2002 and reported on at the time by the Telegraph:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...John-Nott.html



In other words, MI6 travelled the world buying Exocets. And the ones they couldn't buy, they sabotaged.
Cheers Chris, I thought as much. I had been aware of the Higgins book "Exocet" which covers much of that activity but Notts memoirs look to be an interesting read, especially his acknowledgement of the pivotal role which France played in helping Britain during the campaign.

EDIT:

Just picked his book up for £8.10 including postage.

Chris 09-02-2012 09:52
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Angry (Post 35378548)
Cheers Chris, I thought as much. I had been aware of the Higgins book "Exocet" which covers much of that activity but Notts memoirs look to be an interesting read, especially his acknowledgement of the pivotal role which France played in helping Britain during the campaign.
I think the UK's relationship with France is all too often misrepresented. There's too much emphasis on the politics of the EU and too little on the depth of military cooperation between us.

Having sold planes and missiles to Argentina, France was mortified to see those weapons deployed against us and immediately started doing everything possible to show us how to defeat those weapons.

Tim Deegan 09-02-2012 10:03
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
I know this is an old article. But I just found it, and thought it might explain the situation to those who don't know: http://www.thedailybeast.com/newswee...lands-war.html

---------- Post added at 11:03 ---------- Previous post was at 11:00 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35378552)
I think the UK's relationship with France is all too often misrepresented. There's too much emphasis on the politics of the EU and too little on the depth of military cooperation between us.

Having sold planes and missiles to Argentina, France was mortified to see those weapons deployed against us and immediately started doing everything possible to show us how to defeat those weapons.
Apparently not quite: http://blogcritics.org/books/article...entina-during/

Quote:
According to author Ali Magoudi, French President Francois Mitterrand (1916 – 1996) made a stunning claim that during Britain’s Falkland Islands war with Argentina in the early 1980s, Margaret Thatcher (1925) threatened to use nuclear weapons. Unless Mitterrand gave the British the "deactivate" codes used by anti-ship missiles that France had sold to Argentina.

Mr Angry 09-02-2012 10:18
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Deegan (Post 35378564)
I know this is an old article. But I just found it, and thought it might explain the situation to those who don't know: http://www.thedailybeast.com/newswee...lands-war.html

---------- Post added at 11:03 ---------- Previous post was at 11:00 ----------



Apparently not quite: http://blogcritics.org/books/article...entina-during/
Tim,

I think that the "This stunning but uncorroborated revelation..", "The author freely admits that there is no way to back up his claims of what Mitterrand apparently said" and "Shortly after that, according to Magoudi’s unsubstantiated disclosures" caveats in that article pretty much tell a story in themselves.

I'm looking forward to reading Sir John Notts memoirs.

Alan Fry 09-02-2012 10:26
Re: Falkland Islands: Tensions Rising again ahead of Prince William visit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35378552)
I think the UK's relationship with France is all too often misrepresented. There's too much emphasis on the politics of the EU and too little on the depth of military cooperation between us.

Having sold planes and missiles to Argentina, France was mortified to see those weapons deployed against us and immediately started doing everything possible to show us how to defeat those weapons.
We have been allied together since 1904!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entente_cordiale


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