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-   -   Will Scotland Leave the UK? (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33684496)

Hugh 13-01-2012 09:56

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by chris9991 (Post 35360807)
If Scotland were to leave the UK, I wonder how the UK debt pile would be divided. Surely they won't get away with it Scot free

Maybe they should just have the RBS and HBOS debt, as Alex Salmond was so proud of them - Link
Quote:

With RBS and HBOS - two of the world's largest banks - Scotland has global leaders today, tomorrow and for the long-term.

Alan Fry 13-01-2012 10:29

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 007stuart (Post 35360379)
On Scotlands independence, heres something to think about before the vote.

Do we really want Scotland to have its own entry in the Eurovision Song Contest?

Would this be Scotlands first entry :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbNlMtqrYS0&ob=av2e

---------- Post added at 10:29 ---------- Previous post was at 10:21 ----------

Our national Debt is over £1 Trillion

Scolands GDP is £137 Billion

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotlan...infrastructure

UK GDP is £1.2 Trillion

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy...United_Kingdom

Since Scotland contrubutes 15% to UK GDP, it is only fair if it takes on 15% of UK National Debt!

gba93 13-01-2012 10:30

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Fry (Post 35360840)
Would this be Scotlands first entry :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbNlMtqrYS0&ob=av2e

Only if it was sung by Frankie Boyle

danielf 13-01-2012 11:43

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Surely it has to be 'Tek a luuuuuuuuk'

Alan Fry 13-01-2012 11:44

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gba93 (Post 35360849)
Only if it was sung by Frankie Boyle

Can Russel Howard, Dara Ó Briain, Hugh Dennis, Andy Parsons join in as well! :D

gba93 13-01-2012 11:47

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Fry (Post 35360927)
Can Russel Howard, Dara Ó Briain, Hugh Dennis, Andy Parsons join in as well! :D

don't forget Milton Jones

Alan Fry 13-01-2012 12:07

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gba93 (Post 35360930)
don't forget Milton Jones

Along with Ian Hislop, Paul Merton as well! :D :angel:

gba93 13-01-2012 12:22

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Fry (Post 35360966)
Along with Ian Hislop, Paul Merton as well! :D :angel:

What a line-up - Bosnia & Herzegovina doesn't stand a chance

Chris 13-01-2012 13:38

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Well, I had my say on BBC Radio Scotland this lunchtime ... rather than re-typing it, I'll link to my question on the iPlayer once the edition goes up. :D

Alan Fry 13-01-2012 13:53

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
What will happen to BBC, ITV and C4 if Scotland becomes Independent!

Chris 13-01-2012 14:09

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
The SNP favours a state-funded broadcaster modelled on BBC Scotland, so it's possible they would seek to negotiate the splitting of BBC Scotland from the rest of the corporation. Given the amount of programming already made at Pacific Quay (BBC Scotland's HQ, in Glasgow), it's possible that the BBC in London would continue to commission material to be made there. That might help square the circle a bit, given that Scotland benefits more from the licence fee than it actually contributes.

The concept of 'Britain' isn't going to go away if Scotland goes independent (and that's still a mighty big 'if', by the way). It will just take on a somewhat different meaning. There's no reason why the BBC couldn't become a federation of broadcasters serving the nations of the British Isles. In fact, England is the only place where the continuity announcers don't refer to the channel at all times as "BBC (insert nation name here)" .... In Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland the channel is always named after the nation you are viewing in.

As for the others, well STV has never been subsumed by the single ITV1 brand that now operates across England and Wales so no change required there. The ITV network is already designed to operate as a network of independent local broadcasters. Channel 4 makes no effort to regionalise its output beyond varying its advertising slots from place to place. If it ceased to broadcast on Freeview in Scotland - and I see no reason why it should - then its English operation would still be free-to-air on satellite and probably on cable too.

Alan Fry 13-01-2012 14:32

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35361122)
The SNP favours a state-funded broadcaster modelled on BBC Scotland, so it's possible they would seek to negotiate the splitting of BBC Scotland from the rest of the corporation. Given the amount of programming already made at Pacific Quay (BBC Scotland's HQ, in Glasgow), it's possible that the BBC in London would continue to commission material to be made there. That might help square the circle a bit, given that Scotland benefits more from the licence fee than it actually contributes.

The concept of 'Britain' isn't going to go away if Scotland goes independent (and that's still a mighty big 'if', by the way). It will just take on a somewhat different meaning. There's no reason why the BBC couldn't become a federation of broadcasters serving the nations of the British Isles. In fact, England is the only place where the continuity announcers don't refer to the channel at all times as "BBC (insert nation name here)" .... In Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland the channel is always named after the nation you are viewing in.

As for the others, well STV has never been subsumed by the single ITV1 brand that now operates across England and Wales so no change required there. The ITV network is already designed to operate as a network of independent local broadcasters. Channel 4 makes no effort to regionalise its output beyond varying its advertising slots from place to place. If it ceased to broadcast on Freeview in Scotland - and I see no reason why it should - then its English operation would still be free-to-air on satellite and probably on cable too.

So the BBC could become the holding company for EBC (English Broadcasting Corporation), WBC (Welsh Broadcasting Corporation) SBC (Scottish Broadcasting Corporation) and NIBC (Northern Irish Broadcasting Corporation)

BBC One, BBC Two, BBC Three, BBC Four and BBC News Channel will be split under regional lines in the manner of:

EBC: EBC One, EBC Two, EBC Three, EBC Four and EBC News Channel

WBC: WBC One, WBC Two, WBC Three, WBC Four and WBC News Channel

SBC: SBC One, SBC Two, SBC Three, SBC Four and SBC News Channel

NIBC: NIBC One, NIBC Two, NIBC Three, NIBC Four and NIBC News Channel

BBC Radio 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 live, 6 Music, 1Xtra, 4 Extra, 5 Live Sports Extra and Asian network will be split under regional lines in the same manner as the TV stations

BBC Local Radio will be transfed to the regional braodcasters and renamed

They will also share resources andd co-ordinate their activities

The BBC Itself will run the childrens channels, The World Serivce, the International TV channels and co-ordinate the actvites of the BBC, EBC, WBC, SBC and NIBC

BBC Worldwide will now be resposible for the commercial activities of BBC, EBC, WBC, SBC and NIBC

Maybe that could be the new "Federated" BBC model!

Hugh 13-01-2012 14:33

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Alan, calm down, calm down - you are planning for something that is very unlikely to happen.....

Russ 13-01-2012 14:37

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
BBC England does exist.....it's called the BBC.

Alan Fry 13-01-2012 14:40

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35361148)
Alan, calm down, calm down - you are planning for something that is very unlikely to happen.....

This could work even if Scotland stays in the UK, especially if the UK regions gain more powers from Westminster!

LondonRoad 13-01-2012 14:49

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35361148)
Alan, calm down, calm down - you are planning for something that is very unlikely to happen.....

Agree totally. There's more chance of the Berlin Wall coming down.... :dunce:

RizzyKing 13-01-2012 15:22

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Isn't 2014 supposedly when economically things are meant to be turning round or starting too in any real way so maybe the timing of it from salmonds point of view is scotland (and the rest of us of course) endures the worst of austerity and he can claim scotland was paying for englands debt or somesuch. He clearly is holding out till 2014 for some practical reason that he feels will give him best chance and elections don't really do that.

I still cannot see the scots ever voting to leave the union in my lifetime even much less in the next couple of years.

Chris 13-01-2012 15:44

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LondonRoad (Post 35361183)
Agree totally. There's more chance of the Berlin Wall coming down.... :dunce:

The difference being that most Germans wanted the wall to come down and took it down at the earliest opportunity. ;)

Arriving at the BBC Scotland OB this lunchtime, I was struck at just how disappointed some of the studio audience were that the programme had effectively become a referendum special. Among most Scots, not only is there little appetite for independence, I would say there's little appetite for even talking about it, or voting on it.

Of course that does open the disturbing possibility of a yes vote being carried narrowly on a low turnout, which was enough to inflict an Assembly on the reluctant/indifferent Welsh a little over 10 years ago.

LondonRoad 13-01-2012 15:57

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35361226)
The difference being that most Germans wanted the wall to come down and took it down at the earliest opportunity. ;)

Arriving at the BBC Scotland OB this lunchtime, I was struck at just how disappointed some of the studio audience were that the programme had effectively become a referendum special. Among most Scots, not only is there little appetite for independence, I would say there's little appetite for even talking about it, or voting on it.

Of course that does open the disturbing possibility of a yes vote being carried narrowly on a low turnout, which was enough to inflict an Assembly on the reluctant/indifferent Welsh a little over 10 years ago.


You're right off course.

I'd be surprised if there was a majority of SNP voters who would vote for independence, never mind the majority of the electorate.

nashville 13-01-2012 16:11

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
I am a Scot & I will be voting NO for definate. I think we should leave things as they are. Alex Salmon thinks he is Brave Heart & is actually trying to put the 2 countries against each other, we need one another to keep the UK strong. He is destroying Scotland with his soft touch in the justice system & also allowing to many people into the country. I for one want to keep the £ and not the Euro,. He only wants POWER.[COLOR="Silver"]

---------- Post added at 16:11 ---------- Previous post was at 16:05 ----------

Chris 13-01-2012 18:56

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Well, here's my 15 seconds of fame.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode...te_13_01_2012/

I commented at a few points during the programme and actually wrote one of the other questions besides the one I read out ... but my main bit is at 38 minutes, asking about the currency of an independent Scotland, and a comment on that issue a little way after 42 minutes.

LondonRoad 13-01-2012 19:08

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
You sound much taller;)

Alan Fry 14-01-2012 23:01

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LondonRoad (Post 35361240)
You're right off course.

I'd be surprised if there was a majority of SNP voters who would vote for independence, never mind the majority of the electorate.

Most Scots Only voted for the SNP because they are Left-Wing, because they still remember what the Tories did in the 1980s

TheDaddy 14-01-2012 23:09

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
As I said earlier in the thread wee Alec would be better of campaining down here

Support for Scottish independence is higher in England and Wales than it is north of the border, according to a poll published tonight.

Only 26% of voters in Scotland want to break up the Union, compared with 46% who do not, the Survation poll in the Mail on Sunday revealed.

In England and Wales, 29% felt Scotland should quit the UK, with only 40% feeling that it should not.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012...n_1206589.html

Chris 16-01-2012 22:39

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Tom Harris MP has become the latest to alter the subtitles of the Hitler movie, Downfall, for comic effect ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Va6r5Ez-VF8

... losing his role as the party's internet and social media adviser in the process. :D

The background to the new subtitles is a minor controversy that blew up last week when a SNP MSP, Joan McAlpine, stood up at Holyrood and claimed that Labour and the Lib Dems were being 'anti Scottish' for opposing independence.

Derek 17-01-2012 06:34

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Fry (Post 35362336)
Most Scots Only voted for the SNP because they are Left-Wing, because they still remember what the Tories did in the 1980s

No most Scots only voted for the SNP because they weren't labour and were the only party with the slimmest chance of winning a majority.

There is very little appetite for independence among most Scots, Salmond is playing a very smart game by making it appear the big bad English Tories are dictating when and where a referendum can be held. I'm surprised he hasn't demanded Braveheart be played on repeat in the days leading up to the vote.

Peter_ 17-01-2012 06:52

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek (Post 35363708)
No most Scots only voted for the SNP because they weren't labour and were the only party with the slimmest chance of winning a majority.

There is very little appetite for independence among most Scots, Salmond is playing a very smart game by making it appear the big bad English Tories are dictating when and where a referendum can be held. I'm surprised he hasn't demanded Braveheart be played on repeat in the days leading up to the vote.

He has Braveheart on constantly in his office and expects the party to toe the line and paint themselves blue.:D

LondonRoad 17-01-2012 08:18

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
The blue hue can be attained by simply standing outside for many months of the year in this neck of the woods.;)

There's something about Salmond that make me want to punch his smug face. At the same time I kind of admire what he has done for the SNP. He's clearly opportunistic but he is intelligent enough to continually outmaneuver his foes in both Scotland and those from Westminster.

Other than him, I don't see an awful lot of talent in the SNP, then again I could say the same about the Scottish Labour Party who seem to churn out factory produced replicas of what the perceive to be the ideal candidates.

Peter_ 17-01-2012 08:23

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LondonRoad (Post 35363731)
There's something about Salmond that make me want to punch his smug face.

No surprise there then.

Now oddly I find Nicola Sturgeon interesting even in her bad business suits.:erm:

Chris 17-01-2012 08:25

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
If and when Salmond quits politics he SNP is in dire trouble. Remember their previous leader was John Swinney, who is currently running the finance department. Under his tenure the SNP almost vanished from sight.

Attitudes towards independence in Scotland are completely disconnected from the popularity or otherwise of the SNP, which at the moment is for its devotees a personality cult centred on Wee Eck and for everyone else the only viable alternative government to Scottish Labour.

---------- Post added at 08:25 ---------- Previous post was at 08:23 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_ (Post 35363734)
No surprise there then.

Now oddly I find Nicola Sturgeon interesting even in her bad business suits.:erm:

If only she could kick her habit of head-butting the air to emphasise her oratory ...

LondonRoad 17-01-2012 08:27

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35363735)
If only she could kick her habit of head-butting the air to emphasise her oratory ...


Irritates the hell out of me that does. It's when the hands and heads go together the Thunderbirds tune goes through my head.;)

Peter_ 17-01-2012 08:38

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35363735)


If only she could kick her habit of head-butting the air to emphasise her oratory ...

I think Mr Lovemonkey could see something naughty there with her head moving.:shocked:

That sounds like a Glasgow kiss.

Alan Fry 17-01-2012 09:37

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
When Labour finally becomes left wing again, then they would ditch the SNP and go back to Labour, and I also think that the Conservatives/Lib Dems should let Labour lead the Pro-union campain as they only have 20 MSP's and 12 MP's (which could fall even more come the next election)

nashville 17-01-2012 14:57

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
I believe this is a waste of Tax payers money. I am so much against it & we will have it ramed down our throat for 2 years before we get a chance to say No

Chris 20-01-2012 22:37

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
The SNP seems to have accepted that it's not a good idea to design a referendum with rules that would make a banana republic blush ... Instead of inventing his own body to 'supervise' the poll, he has now agreed that it's probably a good idea if the (shock, horror) Electoral Commission is allowed to do what it's paid to do.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...itics-16659665

Osem 21-01-2012 10:41

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35366469)
The SNP seems to have accepted that it's not a good idea to design a referendum with rules that would make a banana republic blush ... Instead of inventing his own body to 'supervise' the poll, he has now agreed that it's probably a good idea if the (shock, horror) Electoral Commission is allowed to do what it's paid to do.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...itics-16659665

Well that'll be a good way to ensure they can blame someone else if they don't get the result they want won't it! I can hear Salmond now ranting on about the damned Westminster controlled Electoral Commission depriving long suffering Scots of their destiny as part of one 'arc of prosperity' or another....;)

Alan Fry 30-01-2012 11:04

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Businesswoman Michelle Mone want to move to England if Scotland become indepedent and calls SNP MSPs Muppets!

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/po...6908-23726637/

Chris 30-01-2012 11:18

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
She's not the only one to make that threat over the years and she won't be the last to repeat it now the referendum debate is properly underway.

Pierre 30-01-2012 12:22

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Question:

When the SNP hold the referendum, if they are beaten then the very thing they exist for has been removed from them.

Surely the need for the SNP suddenly becomes irrelevant?

Alan Fry 30-01-2012 12:23

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35372031)
She's not the only one to make that threat over the years and she won't be the last to repeat it now the referendum debate is properly underway.

Mohamed Al-Fayed on the other hand wants to move to Scotland and if it becomes a republic, beocome its President!

http://www.metro.co.uk/news/148198-a...ve-to-scotland

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/sc...6908-21774572/

Chris 30-01-2012 12:35

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 35372071)
Question:

When the SNP hold the referendum, if they are beaten then the very thing they exist for has been removed from them.

Surely the need for the SNP suddenly becomes irrelevant?

Not really ... Scotland's alternative party of government to Labour has got to be left-of-centre, because left-of-centre is where the centre ground of politics is in Scotland at the moment. The SNP is a left-of-centre party and this is the reason it was able to secure such a convincing victory in 2011. Alex Salmond is first minister despite his separatist agenda, not because of it. Note that while the Scottish electorate returned almost exactly the same General Election result in 2010 as they had in 2005, in the 2011 Holyrood election Labour got a serious kicking. Public opinion hadn't changed all that radically during those 12 months; it just shows that the Scottish electorate is rather more intelligent than it is sometimes given credit for and knows the difference in functions of Westminster and Holyrood and where a vote for one party in one assembly may be more valuable than a vote for that party in another.

If (when) the SNP fails to end the United Kingdom in 2014 it will be in a position of advocating the long-term aim of separatism whilst simultaneously being forced to acknowledge that the question can't be asked again any time soon (though I am certain they will start agitating to ask it again rather sooner than anyone else would like). Having set that aside I would expect them to continue to operate as a left-of-centre alternative to Labour with a policy agenda that seeks to set Scotland apart from England at every possible opportunity.

The thing to remember about Salmond is that, unlike many in his party, he is and has always been a gradualist.

Alan Fry 30-01-2012 12:38

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35372083)
Not really ... Scotland's alternative party of government to Labour has got to be left-of-centre, because left-of-centre is where the centre ground of politics is in Scotland at the moment. The SNP is a left-of-centre party and this is the reason it was able to secure such a convincing victory in 2010. Alex Salmond is first minister despite his separatist agenda, not because of it.

If (when) the SNP fails to end the United Kingdom in 2014 it will be in a position of advocating the long-term aim of separatism whilst simultaneously being forced to acknowledge that the question can't be asked again any time soon (though I am certain they will start agitating to ask it again rather sooner than anyone else would like). Having set that aside I would expect them to continue to operate as a left-of-centre alternative to Labour with a policy agenda that seeks to set Scotland apart from England at every possible opportunity.

The thing to remember about Salmond is that, unlike many in his party, he is and has always been a gradualist.

So if Labour becomes more Left wing, will most SNP voters go to Labour?

TheDaddy 30-01-2012 16:34

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Fry (Post 35372072)
Mohamed Al-Fayed on the other hand wants to move to Scotland and if it becomes a republic, beocome its President!

Probably the only way he'll get a passport...

Sirius 30-01-2012 16:38

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 35372242)
Probably the only way he'll get a passport...

Excellent :)

Alan Fry 31-01-2012 14:59

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
I think that England should get its own parliament with the same powers and the same amount of public spending per person as Scotland

Sirius 31-01-2012 16:12

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Fry (Post 35372812)
I think that England should get its own parliament with the same powers and the same amount of public spending per person as Scotland

?????

Which lesson at your university gave you that idea.

Alan Fry 31-01-2012 16:15

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius (Post 35372881)
?????

Which lesson at your university gave you that idea.

So that we can run our own affairs and get better benifits!

nashville 31-01-2012 16:39

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
We would be worse off, I love Scotland as this is my home. But we all need to stay in the UK.

Derek 31-01-2012 22:04

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Fry (Post 35372812)
I think that England should get its own parliament with the same powers and the same amount of public spending per person as Scotland

So every person of the UK should get the same level of spending regardless of remoteness, social deprivation, multi-generational unemployment and other factors? :dozey:

Alan Fry 01-02-2012 12:37

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek (Post 35373145)
So every person of the UK should get the same level of spending regardless of remoteness, social deprivation, multi-generational unemployment and other factors? :dozey:

No, but England should have more devolution and more public spending! We have deprivation, multi-generational unemployment everywere (except London & the South East) as Scotland

Alan Fry 01-02-2012 13:36

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by heero_yuy (Post 35373413)
Except London?



Source

There are also areas of extreme deprivation in the south-east despite the veneer of prosperity.

Which is why we need to increase public soending not cut it, we want to have the benifits Scotland is having!

Hugh 01-02-2012 14:59

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
I think I know what your answer will be (but hope springs eternal in the human breast) - how will this increased public spending be funded?

Alan Fry 02-02-2012 08:46

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35373478)
I think I know what your answer will be (but hope springs eternal in the human breast) - how will this increased public spending be funded?

The usual answer, but it would only be a few billion

Hugh 02-02-2012 11:20

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Fry (Post 35373885)
The usual answer, but it would only be a few billion

I think your answer shows how we got into the mess we are in - only a few billion here, only a few billion there; it soon adds up to serious money.....;)

Alan Fry 02-02-2012 12:12

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35373964)
I think your answer shows how we got into the mess we are in - only a few billion here, only a few billion there; it soon adds up to serious money.....;)

I will not be borrowing the money!

Derek 03-02-2012 06:19

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Fry (Post 35373989)
I will not be borrowing the money!

Will it come out the magic bag of endless money? :dozey:

Alan Fry 03-02-2012 09:47

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek (Post 35374516)
Will it come out the magic bag of endless money? :dozey:

No from Tax Cheats!

Hugh 03-02-2012 20:17

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Ta dah!!!!

LondonRoad 03-02-2012 21:01

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35374970)
Ta dah!!!!

Nice rabbit;)

Damien 10-10-2012 09:53

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2...m-alex-salmond

Boo hiss boo etc

denphone 10-10-2012 10:00

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Yes my sentiments exactly.

Derek 10-10-2012 10:27

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Ah balls 2 more years of Salmond bumping his gums before the vote :mad:

TheDaddy 10-10-2012 14:51

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
If this is true the sooner Scotland go the better imo

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...patronage.html

Damien 10-10-2012 15:05

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 35483434)
If this is true the sooner Scotland go the better imo

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...patronage.html

Not sure that makes much sense, or means anything. I think most people take more from the state than they give back. I certainly do, I have a job but I've gone though the entire school system, had treatment on the NHS, am protected by the police and so on. My taxes don't come anywhere near meeting that value.

I don't think that situation is unique to Scotland. She has just presented in a way that makes it seem unusual.

TheDaddy 10-10-2012 15:14

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35483435)
Not sure that makes much sense, or means anything. I think most people take more from the state than they give back. I certainly do, I have a job but I've gone though the entire school system, had treatment on the NHS, am protected by the police and so on. My taxes don't come anywhere near meeting that value.

I don't think that situation is unique to Scotland. She has just presented in a way that makes it seem unusual.

Anyone would think you didn't want them to go...

Damien 10-10-2012 15:20

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 35483436)
Anyone would think you didn't want them to go...

Well I don't but that doesn't influence my post. Most people contribute less than they take out unless you're at the higher end of the tax scale.

TheDaddy 10-10-2012 15:35

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35483437)
Well I don't but that doesn't influence my post. Most people contribute less than they take out unless you're at the higher end of the tax scale.

I do want them to go and it does influence my posts.

Damien 10-10-2012 15:52

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 35483440)
I do want them to go and it does influence my posts.

Right..but we're still discussing the validity of the article. Whilst it's probably true it's relevance is questionable especially since Scotland is currently a net contributor to the UK.

nashville 10-10-2012 16:52

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
I am just catching up here. But I still believe we need to stay together. Alex Salmon just wants power, Can,t stand the man

Osem 11-10-2012 09:44

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Anyone who puts their faith in Salmond ought to examine their reasons for so doing. Is it really for the long term good of Scotland or is it just a perceived chance to get one over the 'auld enemy' that'll will ultimately cost them dear. I think Salmond is the Scottish Parliament's version of George Galloway. He sounds good on TV but what has he ever really achieved? Anyway, I'm quite glad it's out of my hands and won't be weeping whatever the final decision. In fact it'd be quite nice to see how well Salmond does trying to live up to all the populist rhetoric he's spouted over the years when he's no longer got the English to blame for all Scotland's ills.

martyh 11-10-2012 11:50

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35483435)
Not sure that makes much sense, or means anything. I think most people take more from the state than they give back. I certainly do, I have a job but I've gone though the entire school system, had treatment on the NHS, am protected by the police and so on. My taxes don't come anywhere near meeting that value.

I don't think that situation is unique to Scotland. She has just presented in a way that makes it seem unusual.

It doesn't ,it's one of those collection of figures that can be interpreted any number of ways .Is she including the oil revenue? ,is she referring to people receiving state benefits like family allowance ? Is she including her own wage ?.Since making that statement last week (descibed as her mit romney moment) she has not clarified how she applied the figures or what figures she has used to come to that conclusion

Itshim 12-10-2012 11:09

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35483437)
Well I don't but that doesn't influence my post. Most people contribute less than they take out unless you're at the higher end of the tax scale.

Not true in my case.

Healthcare - I pay for GP ,Hospital, scripts (all private)
Education - Grand children private schools If and when Uni -that will be paid for - guess by then no "state" help will be in place
Bus pass - do not have one.
Social services- not used
Library- not used since Kindle came on the market
Fly first class - so pay extra tax for that. Just to have a better seat !!! On top of paying tax on what I earn.
State pension - will not claimed when of age. The less I appear on "state radar" the happier I am.
Tax paid at highest rate. In France ,USA & UK. Money earned in each country stays in that country.
As far as "pay back" is concerned I lose. So please take it personally when I moan about Welfare , NHS or the government giving my money to countries that send up rockets but their people starve.:mad: and the reason despite not being happy about the man Mitt Romney will get my vote. :dozey:

As Scotland only costs "me" money - GOOD BYE & good luck

Damien 12-10-2012 11:22

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Itshim (Post 35484089)
Not true in my case.

Healthcare - I pay for GP ,Hospital, scripts (all private)
Education - Grand children private schools If and when Uni -that will be paid for - guess by then no "state" help will be in place
Bus pass - do not have one.
Social services- not used
Library- not used since Kindle came on the market
Fly first class - so pay extra tax for that. Just to have a better seat !!! On top of paying tax on what I earn.
State pension - will not claimed when of age. The less I appear on "state radar" the happier I am.
Tax paid at highest rate. In France ,USA & UK. Money earned in each country stays in that country.
As far as "pay back" is concerned I lose. So please take it personally when I moan about Welfare , NHS or the government giving my money to countries that send up rockets but their people starve.:mad: and the reason despite not being happy about the man Mitt Romney will get my vote. :dozey:

As Scotland only costs "me" money - GOOD BYE & good luck


Well Mitt Romney doesn't decide British economic policy regardless. I still never understood why you claim to have been disappointed in Obama and switched to Romney, your politics are very solidly Republican.

Anyway, you're part of the few that puts more than you put in. Although you don't get nothing. The society you live in benefits from an healthy and educated workforce, just because you don't use it doesn't mean the doctors you pay didn't or the teachers that education your grandchildren didn't either. There are all sorts of ways that society as a whole helps you.

I am not going to take it personally when you moan about welfare. I don't receive it at the moment, nor would I feel 'personally offended' if I did.

As for Scotland they, as a whole, do not cost you money. They are contributing more to the union than they take for the moment.

Itshim 12-10-2012 12:43

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35484090)
Well Mitt Romney doesn't decide British economic policy regardless. I still never understood why you claim to have been disappointed in Obama and switched to Romney, your politics are very solidly Republican.

Anyway, you're part of the few that puts more than you put in. Although you don't get nothing. The society you live in benefits from an healthy and educated workforce, just because you don't use it doesn't mean the doctors you pay didn't or the teachers that education your grandchildren didn't either. There are all sorts of ways that society as a whole helps you.

I am not going to take it personally when you moan about welfare. I don't receive it at the moment, nor would I feel 'personally offended' if I did.

As for Scotland they, as a whole, do not cost you money. They are contributing more to the union than they take for the moment.

Stupidly I thought Obama was different & was the best man on offer at the time - So I voted for him. I am not a registered Republican. & my vote swings a lot. I never claimed that I do not benefit from what I contribute to in society however I do moan about the number of persons that feel that I should look after them,because they are too lazy to look after them self's.

As I understand it Scotland "spends" more money than the taxes raise in it. So as I see it that is a net cost.


The gulf in state spending between Scotland and England has hit a record £1,600 per head.
Government spending in Scotland averaged £10,212 per person last year – £1,624 per head more than in England.
The staggering figures, buried in Treasury documents, reveal the gap increased by more than 15 per cent in only a year.



Under the arrangements, the Scots receive 10 per cent of the money handed out by Whitehall, despite having little more than eight per cent of the population.

Derek 12-10-2012 15:05

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Itshim (Post 35484101)
As I understand it Scotland "spends" more money than the taxes raise in it. So as I see it that is a net cost.

You understand wrong, of course the Daily Heil is never the best source for unbiased opinions. Probably a little more balanced opinion from the BBC.

Quote:

Put it another way: Scotland provided 9.4% of total UK revenues and got 'only' 9.2% of UK public spending in return.
Of course its not just a simple exercise, oil revenues can't be split evenly, defence spending isn't a clear cut number and the lower population density will always mean more spending per head on infrastructure projects.

Hugh 12-10-2012 15:29

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Itshim (Post 35484089)
Not true in my case.

Healthcare - I pay for GP ,Hospital, scripts (all private)
If you have an accident, it won't be a private ambulance that picks you up, or private A&E
Education - Grand children private schools If and when Uni -that will be paid for - guess by then no "state" help will be in place
Except that private schools are registered charities, and have various tax exemptions supporting them, thus depriving everyone else of tax revenue
Bus pass - do not have one.
Most bus services have public subsidies, especially in outlying areas
Social services- not used
Library- not used since Kindle came on the market
But you did use it previously
Fly first class - so pay extra tax for that. Just to have a better seat !!! On top of paying tax on what I earn.
State pension - will not claimed when of age. The less I appear on "state radar" the happier I am.
Tax paid at highest rate. In France ,USA & UK. Money earned in each country stays in that country.
As far as "pay back" is concerned I lose. So please take it personally when I moan about Welfare , NHS or the government giving my money to countries that send up rockets but their people starve.:mad: and the reason despite not being happy about the man Mitt Romney will get my vote. :dozey:

As Scotland only costs "me" money - GOOD BYE & good luck


martyh 12-10-2012 17:37

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Itshim (Post 35484089)
Not true in my case.

Healthcare - I pay for GP ,Hospital, scripts (all private)
Education - Grand children private schools If and when Uni -that will be paid for - guess by then no "state" help will be in place
Bus pass - do not have one.
Social services- not used
Library- not used since Kindle came on the market
Fly first class - so pay extra tax for that. Just to have a better seat !!! On top of paying tax on what I earn.
State pension - will not claimed when of age. The less I appear on "state radar" the happier I am.
Tax paid at highest rate. In France ,USA & UK. Money earned in each country stays in that country.
As far as "pay back" is concerned I lose. So please take it personally when I moan about Welfare , NHS or the government giving my money to countries that send up rockets but their people starve.:mad: and the reason despite not being happy about the man Mitt Romney will get my vote. :dozey:

As Scotland only costs "me" money - GOOD BYE & good luck

So it's you and your private hospital that's nicking all our state trained nurses and doctors that i have paid for ;)

social services will be there though if you ever need them ,i know it's a little far fetched but just suppose the banks go bust and all your money disappears ;) shock horror you may even need a state pension

Itshim 15-10-2012 10:53

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek (Post 35484121)
You understand wrong, of course the Daily Heil is never the best source for unbiased opinions. Probably a little more balanced opinion from the BBC.


Arh,yes the BBC
The programme maker, that thinks that Christianity has no relevance to world history.
When figures are released that show global warming have not increased is not newsworthy .
That suppressed a programme about Savile .
I can understand why you would rely them for the facts.

---------- Post added at 10:53 ---------- Previous post was at 10:50 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35484185)
So it's you and your private hospital that's nicking all our state trained nurses and doctors that i have paid for ;)

YES :)

social services will be there though if you ever need them ,i know it's a little far fetched but just suppose the banks go bust and all your money disappears ;) shock horror you may even need a state pension

If that happened & we as a family needed help. Then the state pension would have long gone , & it would be every man for himself :D

Damien 15-10-2012 10:55

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Itshim (Post 35485141)
The programme maker, that thinks that Christianity has no relevance to world history.
When figures are released that show global warming have not increased is not newsworthy .
That suppressed a programme about Savile .
I can understand why you would rely them for the facts.

Again, items you have picked up off The Daily Mail...

Itshim 15-10-2012 11:10

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35485144)
Again, items you have picked up off The Daily Mail...


That might have something to do with reading it most days :)

As I guess you must do as well. Dont you just "love" Peter Hitchen. Say it like it is :D

Damien 15-10-2012 11:18

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Itshim (Post 35485148)
That might have something to do with reading it most days :)

As I guess you must do as well. Dont you just "love" Peter Hitchen. Say it like it is :D

I liked his brother, I don't really mind Peter Hitchens.

Anyway I find it ironic that you decide the BBC cannot be trusted on the facts because it disagrees with the stories presented in the Daily Mail. The Global Warming story being the most obvious example of this, the Met Office did a good debunked of that here: http://metofficenews.wordpress.com/2...-october-2012/

Derek 15-10-2012 13:37

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
A pretty decent piece on how independance wouldn't be anything of the sort.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/ia...ing-the-pound/

Quote:

So, while the Nats will ask Scotland to vote yes to leaving the UK, that independence now means signing up after 2014 to joining a burgeoning EU Federation and handing over to Brussels many of the powers the Nats say they must have back from London to be independent. Oh, and simultaneously they want to keep using sterling, the currency of the rest of the UK which is run from London.

Damien 15-10-2012 13:50

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Will our Scottish Mods be able to continue post-independence? It's a question we all need to think about I think....:D

Derek 15-10-2012 13:54

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35485195)
Will our Scottish Mods be able to continue post-independence? It's a question we all need to think about I think....:D

And what about the English mods currently occupying prime spots of Scottish land? Do they just get driven to the border and forced back over at gunpoint?

Damien 15-10-2012 14:02

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek (Post 35485197)
And what about the English mods currently occupying prime spots of Scottish land? Do they just get driven to the border and forced back over at gunpoint?

War is it? Very well.....:sniper:

Dam Scots, they ruined Scotland!

Derek 15-10-2012 14:05

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35485204)
War is it? Very well.....:sniper:

Bring it on. We've got the nukes....

Well we will until Emperor Salmond decides to ban them from the Clyde. Quite how he wants to replace all the lost jobs from closing Faslane and Coulport hasn't yet been decided.

Along with all the other defence jobs that would be binned once Scotlands army after independence would consist of a couple of blokes with old rifles and a rusty converted fishing boat.

Damien 15-10-2012 14:10

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek (Post 35485205)
Bring it on. We've got the nukes....

Oh yeah....well I guess you can stay on the mod team....for now....

Quote:

Well we will until Emperor Salmond decides to ban them from the Clyde. Quite how he wants to replace all the lost jobs from closing Faslane and Coulport hasn't yet been decided.

Along with all the other defence jobs that would be binned once Scotlands army after independence would consist of a couple of blokes with old rifles and a rusty converted fishing boat.
Yup. Also how will Scotland pay for the socialist utopia Salmond is promising once the Oil either runs dry or becomes economically unviable to extract? It can happen almost overnight. Texas thought the good times will never end in the late 80's and the whole place crashed hard in mere months.

Derek 15-10-2012 14:18

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35485208)
Also how will Scotland pay for the socialist utopia Salmond is promising once the Oil either runs dry or becomes economically unviable to extract?

:scratch: :idea:

He could use the nukes to take out the deprived areas. That would save money on the welfare budget and bring in tourists to see the ruins.

Damien 15-10-2012 14:19

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek (Post 35485212)
:scratch: :idea:

He could use the nukes to take out the deprived areas. That would save money on the welfare budget and bring in tourists to see the ruins.

Would that really differ much from what they can see now? :shocked:

I hope they/you don't leave, I think it would be tragic to lose a part of Britain. I wonder how soft the current polling is that suggests 25% in favour. Can 25% of people be won over? Additionally, if it's a 'no' then how long is this issue dead for?

Chad 15-10-2012 14:24

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35485195)
Will our Scottish Mods be able to continue post-independence? It's a question we all need to think about I think....:D

Will Virgin Media still operate in Scotland post-independence? That's what will swing my vote:D

In all serious I've yet to speak to anyone who thinks Scotland going independant is the right move for Scotland. Nobody I know will be voting yes, myself included.

Derek 15-10-2012 14:29

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chad (Post 35485219)
In all serious I've yet to speak to anyone who thinks Scotland going independant is the right move for Scotland. Nobody I know will be voting yes, myself included.

As it gets closer to the vote and more of the spin gets unravelled I can't see it getting any better. A few years ago Salmond was mouthing off to all and sundry how the Republic of Ireland was a perfect example of how a small country could work well.

He's gone kind of quiet on that front since their economy tanked. :rolleyes:

---------- Post added at 14:29 ---------- Previous post was at 14:27 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35485213)
Can 25% of people be won over?

Doubtful.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35485213)
Additionally, if it's a 'no' then how long is this issue dead for?

Hopefully at least two or three generations. Either way it has to be a definitive vote with a good turnout. A slim margin either way or poor turnout would mean it would keep rearing its head.

Sirius 15-10-2012 16:14

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
So who will be rebuilding Hadrian's wall if you go independent. :LOL:

martyh 15-10-2012 18:40

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius (Post 35485288)
So who will be rebuilding Hadrian's wall if you go independent. :LOL:


Already got the quotes in mate .....waiting on planning permission :rolleyes:;)

---------- Post added at 18:40 ---------- Previous post was at 18:33 ----------

discussed on jeremy vine today ,who gets to vote.As it stands at the moment a Scottish born person living in England cannot vote ,an English born living in Scotland can.i think it was for 15 yrs but not sure ,seems that a lot of people may be upset when the time comes

nashville 16-10-2012 15:57

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chad (Post 35485219)
Will Virgin Media still operate in Scotland post-independence? That's what will swing my vote:D

In all serious I've yet to speak to anyone who thinks Scotland going independant is the right move for Scotland. Nobody I know will be voting yes, myself included.

I agree most people I know will not be voting yes. I hope the 16 & 17 are wise enough to say NO to Alex salmon

jempalmer 16-10-2012 18:32

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
I still cannot understand why that twit Salmond is revered by so many. Are they really that stupid? Good luck and God bless. Truly beggars belief.

Osem 16-10-2012 18:44

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Since it's been such a key policy of his, I wonder if Salmond will react to a 'no' vote by resigning or will he and his cohorts take a leaf out of the EU book and simply decide the question needs to be asked again?

jempalmer 16-10-2012 20:47

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
He's too arrogant to resign. I wonder what goes through his mind as he drifts off to sleep at night. I know what I'd like to go through his head...

Osem 16-10-2012 20:58

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jempalmer (Post 35485817)
He's too arrogant to resign. I wonder what goes through his mind as he drifts off to sleep at night. I know what I'd like to go through his head...

Something suitably sharp and rusty??... :D

jempalmer 16-10-2012 21:09

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
9mm, or perhaps .50. Need something large calibre to ensure a direct hit on the very small brain. RPG at point blank range would do the job :D

Hom3r 16-10-2012 21:40

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
My grandad was born in Glasgow, he only left to marry my nan who was born and lived in London, where they lived until he went to WWII.

he was a very proud Scot, but was also British and served for King and country.

I would be very suprised if Scotland broke away form the UK.

If it was to happen the only thing that would be joint would be security of our island.


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