Originally Posted by Tim Deegan (Post 35349155)

I had evidence of their behavior. They had no evidence of my behavior during the calls.

Originally Posted by Tim Deegan (Post 35349155)

[/COLOR]

I had evidence of their behavior. They had no evidence of my behavior during the calls.

Originally Posted by nstokes (Post 35349144)

They are open 7 days a week and upto 10pm i believe. I dont think people want to gag VM as you say but are giving there opinion on the situation, it is a forum for disscutions about this sort of thing. Ive you re read some of the tread and my 1st post then you would see that some people have said yes they made a mistake and could of done things better but no point crying over spilt milk as to say. This issue is resolved. Like i said 1st post, if you have identifed an area that is weak and needs improving email the CEO office and tell them your sugesstion on how it would help customers AND the business

Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35349165)

That seems to be the underlying trend these days .As long as the issue gets resolved ....eventually...no harm no foul .That is totally the wrong way to aproach customer services .

Originally Posted by nstokes (Post 35349166)

Its not like someone has died over it :) or did they??? :D

Originally Posted by devilincarnate (Post 35349168)

Most who have read this thred:D:D:D:D

Originally Posted by nstokes (Post 35349159)

and your comment "With that attitude, then you obviously used to work in the right place." isnt n insult?

---------- Post added at 18:17 ---------- Previous post was at 18:15 ----------



doesnt mean it was in insult, it was his opinion which he is entitled to say

Originally Posted by nstokes (Post 35349166)

actaully my point, if it gets resolved in the end, no point being angry. Its not like someone has died over it :) or did they??? :D

Originally Posted by devilincarnate (Post 35349164)

Tim can I just ask something here from what you posted in reply to one of my posts. You have said that you own a company and also if some was unsure you would like them to ask a manager? But now when people are having a opinion on here you are starting to get irate (If one of your staff did this, What would you do or say?)

I can see both sides of the argument as I have been on both ends.

Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35349165)

That seems to be the underlying trend these days .As long as the issue gets resolved ....eventually...no harm no foul .That is totally the wrong way to aproach customer services .

Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35349171)

and my point was that the aspiration of the company and the staff should be to resolve the issue at the 1st attempt not the 2nd,3rd or 4th that just shows that the company and the staff have failed

Originally Posted by devilincarnate (Post 35349168)

Most who have read this thred:D:D:D:D

Originally Posted by nstokes (Post 35349166)

actaully my point, if it gets resolved in the end, no point being angry. Its not like someone has died over it :) or did they??? :D

Originally Posted by nstokes (Post 35349175)

oh i misread your post. i see your point, yes they should have done and maybe thats there aim on every call but not every call can be fixed 1st time

Originally Posted by Tim Deegan (Post 35349178)

And my point is that nobody should have to be messed about in order to sort a problem out. If it was the customer's fault, then fair enough. But when it is VM's fault, they should sort it quickly and with as little disruption to the customer as possible.

Originally Posted by nstokes (Post 35349175)

oh i misread your post. i see your point, yes they should have done and maybe thats there aim on every call but not every call can be fixed 1st time

Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35349183)

Agreed ,i fully accept that not all issues can be fixed with one call ,the same applies in my line of work but as long as this is explained to the customer honestly and openly i find that usually the customer understands .Problems arise when a customer is told the issue is rectified when it hasn't or something isn't possible when it is

Originally Posted by Andrewcrawford23 (Post 35349185)

yes i agree tim should have had it all doenand sorted witht eh first call not the 2nd 3rd or 4th but on the same hand tim should not be calling people liers because they state "that impossible" then they come back and fix it, i know that seems liek there lying and maybe the agent should have said i dnt think that is possible and checked but you cant call someone a liar because of how there trained no offense but no one know everything even if you are train on say tivo you will not know ever possible problem you could encourare even if you where train on the in and out of the tivo, i assume tim is not tech savvy because if he was he know that software is temperamental and can do one thing one and minute and another the next with the same command and that is why the staff member will have bene trained never to cancel the order because cancelling the order could mean that in the end tim would not even have got them for tuesday because the order was cancelled but tim thinks that isnt acceptable, he also seems to think that people are robot and never make makes we are all human and make mistake the good people admit there wrong and dnt try to cover themself up.

to sum up no one know everything so it is impossible to train for everything just grow up and accept they mucked up and didnt get it right first time but the person who did fix it wasnta liar just was trained that way, then go and complain to virign about how there system works

Originally Posted by nstokes (Post 35349186)

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Originally Posted by devilincarnate (Post 35349187)

Have you got the clap:D:D:D:D:D

Originally Posted by nstokes (Post 35349181)

agreed but see my post above, i bet there aim is to fix all issues as quick as poss without messing the customer around but somethimes it doesnt always work like this, remeber things happen for a reason

Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35349193)

I would assume that is a given for all companies but i notice that it is harder to keep that aim the bigger a company gets simply because of the different levels of expertise within a large company ,it is much easier to train 10 people to the same standard and keep them there than 1,000 ,plus i would imagine the high staff turnover has a lot to do with it .I have never worked in a call center but i would imagine that there are people who have worked there anywhere from 5yrs to 5 minutes and it's just pot luck which one the customer gets

Originally Posted by nstokes (Post 35349198)

in some ways you are correct, i have been working at the same one for over 6 years and tbf i dont know it all as no one person can know everything, i still get things wrong and sometimes my calls arnt always the best but i learn from it and take things on board, i have had customer like Tim before and tbh i deal with the issue and if they have anything bad to say about me when they have no need i leave it and forgot get, move on to the next one, if i had done something incorrect then i understand his POV but the agent he is talking about (4th call) didnt do anything wrong apart from maybe have used the wrong wording but he sorted the issue out

Originally Posted by Masque (Post 35349213)

What non thread this has turned into, an agent says something cannot be done and goes away and finds out how to sort out the issue and then gets branded a liar, how sad is that.

Did you get your issue resolved or did you not a simple yes or no will suffice.

If the agent knew how much you whinged about them on here then in future they might just go sod it! not my issue and not even try to resolve your issue if his is the kind of thanks and frankly sad attitude that goes on after the problem is sorted out.

Get a grip and smell the coffee.

Originally Posted by Masque (Post 35349213)

What non thread this has turned into, an agent says something cannot be done and goes away and finds out how to sort out the issue and then gets branded a liar, how sad is that.

.

Originally Posted by kop32 (Post 35348974)

Tim,
I don't think people on here are defending VM CS but as your main issue seems to be no HD for a couple of days then your issues are a bit OTT,as for the CS Rep lying then have you never heard of the term "lack of training",usually in these cases that is the problem,I just hope you are now happy with your services and if you still feel aggrieved then may I suggest you write to VM through the correct channel to make your point,accusing people of lying on an open forum (without knowing all the facts) seems a little harsh, and before you ask no I don't work for VM.

Originally Posted by nstokes (Post 35349121)

i myself work in a contact centre and i see the OP's POV HOWEVER i also think he is seeing this in the wrong light. Yes VM MAY have made a mistake with this but mistakes happen and people only learn from mistakes same a business. Maybe the call agent could have worded it better than he did but each agent deals with THIER calls differently.

In the call centre i work in we try and look after out own customers, may that be the person that is calling up, a manager you are dealing with or an external contact. Sometimes this isnt always possible and on the next call it gets done differently.

I can understand that OP is a bit down hearted about this but at the end of the day the end result is that the issue was RESOLVED. The call didnt cost anything as it is free from a VM phone line. I think that the OP is taking this all the wrong way and dealing with it in the wrong manner as well. If you are unhappy email CEO office and make a complanit but not only that the OP needs to make a suggestion to VM on how to IMPROVE the CS.

Ok can we all now calm down and drink some beer, it is xmas after all :D

Originally Posted by Tim Deegan (Post 35349155)

That's because various posters have said that I should contact the CEO's office rather than post in a forum. So why would they want me to do that?????


This is a forum, and this thread is fully in context with the web site.

---------- Post added at 18:13 ---------- Previous post was at 18:12 ----------



Personal insults aren't very funny, and are also against forum rules. So mods please remove the offending post

---------- Post added at 18:14 ---------- Previous post was at 18:13 ----------



I had evidence of their behavior. They had no evidence of my behavior during the calls.

Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35349223)

With respect Masque ,

can't you see how ,from a customers point of view ,saying that something cannot be done and then doing it is just plain wrong ,as i said earlier i wouldn't call the rep a liar ,maybe lazy or ill trained but not a liar



That is not relevant in this case ,it's how it was handled during the 4 calls Tim had to make to resolve it



Or he /she may feel a tad embarrassed and decide to up their game

Originally Posted by Digital Fanatic (Post 35349304)

Seems the moral of this thread is ...... Don't go the extra mile for the customer, it won't be appreciated and you'll be called a liar on forums. :(

Originally Posted by Digital Fanatic (Post 35349304)

Seems the moral of this thread is ...... Don't go the extra mile for the customer, it won't be appreciated and you'll be called a liar on forums. :(

Originally Posted by mlayzell (Post 35349326)

I think and hope all the VM staff members on this forum, know their support is held in very high regarded by a majority of Forum members and without them this forum would be greatly devalued!!

Originally Posted by mlayzell (Post 35349326)

I think and hope all the VM staff members on this forum, know their support is held in very high regarded by a majority of Forum members and without them this forum would be greatly devalued!!

Originally Posted by devilincarnate (Post 35349187)

Have you got the clap:D:D:D:D:D

Originally Posted by Tim Deegan (Post 35349129)

Personally I've only ever had to call Sky a few times over 15 years, and didn't really have any problems with them. So I'm not really qualified to comment on their CS.

Originally Posted by Chad (Post 35349324)

So someone at Virgin has given inaccurate information to the original poster. The original poster has then aired his dissatisfaction to the Virgin employee who then managed to go away and resolve the matter.

Originally Posted by Masque (Post 35349355)

A long winded and rather pointless thread.https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2012/11/13.gif

Originally Posted by Masque (Post 35349355)

A long winded and rather pointless thread.https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2012/11/13.gif

Originally Posted by andy_m (Post 35349360)

And yet you're still posting here!

Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35349359)

One of the more depressing threads we've had on here IMO. I've seen a lot since joining this forum but rarely have I seen someone so determined to insist that an example of excellent customer service by a CSR actually amounts to lies and laziness.

What a sad and twisted view of the world.

Merry Christmas ...

Originally Posted by andy_m (Post 35349360)

Whether he used the right language or not, I'm sure everyone can understand the frustrations of the OP. Making the customer phone 4 times before he got the service he wanted without explaining the processes involved to give him some understanding of why it may not have been possible is not good enough.

Originally Posted by nstokes (Post 35349181)

agreed but see my post above, i bet there aim is to fix all issues as quick as poss without messing the customer around but somethimes it doesnt always work like this, remeber things happen for a reason

Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35349171)

and my point was that the aspiration of the company and the staff should be to resolve the issue at the 1st attempt not the 2nd,3rd or 4th that just shows that the company and the staff have failed

Originally Posted by Tim Deegan (Post 35349406)

Unfortunately with VM it seems to be more often than not that they don't get it right. Which is my whole reason for this thread.

---------- Post added at 10:06 ---------- Previous post was at 10:04 ----------



That is one of the points I am trying to make in this thread :clap:

Originally Posted by Andrewcrawford23 (Post 35349185)

yes i agree tim should have had it all doenand sorted witht eh first call not the 2nd 3rd or 4th but on the same hand tim should not be calling people liers because they state "that impossible" then they come back and fix it, i know that seems liek there lying and maybe the agent should have said i dnt think that is possible and checked but you cant call someone a liar because of how there trained no offense but no one know everything even if you are train on say tivo you will not know ever possible problem you could encourare even if you where train on the in and out of the tivo, i assume tim is not tech savvy because if he was he know that software is temperamental and can do one thing one and minute and another the next with the same command and that is why the staff member will have bene trained never to cancel the order because cancelling the order could mean that in the end tim would not even have got them for tuesday because the order was cancelled but tim thinks that isnt acceptable, he also seems to think that people are robot and never make makes we are all human and make mistake the good people admit there wrong and dnt try to cover themself up.

to sum up no one know everything so it is impossible to train for everything just grow up and accept they mucked up and didnt get it right first time but the person who did fix it wasnta liar just was trained that way, then go and complain to virign about how there system works

Originally Posted by Tim Deegan (Post 35349412)

The thread was started because of the overall poor CS from VM. And this situation was just one example.

The fact is that if somebody deliberately makes a statement that is untrue then that is the definition of a lie. Other people may call it bending the truth, or being uneconomical with the truth. But a lie is a lie, and nobody can deny that.

If the CSR didn't knowthen he should have asked, rather than making an untrue statement. To say "it is impossible" is a statement, and isn't just implying something.

Originally Posted by Tim Deegan (Post 35349406)

Unfortunately with VM it seems to be more often than not that they don't get it right. Which is my whole reason for this thread.

---------- Post added at 10:06 ---------- Previous post was at 10:04 ----------



That is one of the points I am trying to make in this thread :clap:

Originally Posted by Tim Deegan (Post 35349412)

The thread was started because of the overall poor CS from VM. And this situation was just one example.

The fact is that if somebody deliberately makes a statement that is untrue then that is the definition of a lie. Other people may call it bending the truth, or being uneconomical with the truth. But a lie is a lie, and nobody can deny that.

Originally Posted by Masque (Post 35349409)

But the last agent got it right and therefore how can he be a liar if he resolved your issue, remember all businesses have processes including your own but as I said in an earlier post I bet you will bend a rule if it satisfies the customer and gets you that all important sale, am I not right?

Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35349417)

It has been repeatedly explained to you what the CSR meant by 'not possible'. If you're too proud to admit you got it wrong when you called a decent, helpful member of staff a liar, it's your loss.

Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35349193)

I would assume that is a given for all companies but i notice that it is harder to keep that aim the bigger a company gets simply because of the different levels of expertise within a large company ,it is much easier to train 10 people to the same standard and keep them there than 1,000 ,plus i would imagine the high staff turnover has a lot to do with it .I have never worked in a call center but i would imagine that there are people who have worked there anywhere from 5yrs to 5 minutes and it's just pot luck which one the customer gets

Originally Posted by nstokes (Post 35349198)

in some ways you are correct, i have been working at the same one for over 6 years and tbf i dont know it all as no one person can know everything, i still get things wrong and sometimes my calls arnt always the best but i learn from it and take things on board, i have had customer like Tim before and tbh i deal with the issue and if they have anything bad to say about me when they have no need i leave it and forgot get, move on to the next one, if i had done something incorrect then i understand his POV but the agent he is talking about (4th call) didnt do anything wrong apart from maybe have used the wrong wording but he sorted the issue out

Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35349429)

FWIW the I've found CS in this country to be very good. However most calls seem to get routed overseas where it's very poor and they can't stray from their scripts.

I only ever choose the 'thinking of leaving option' when ringing for whatever reason because I know I'll get good customer service from UK agents (they don't seem to mind).

Guess it's a cost/profit/customer satisfaction balance that VM getting wrong. Are we prepared to pay more for UK base called centres and better CS ? (i would, a little more anyway :) )

Originally Posted by tweetiepooh (Post 35349437)

Me thinks that some of the heat in this discussion is the calling an individual a liar rather than the company/system.

There is a concept called "lying to children" where you tell an untruth to explain something that the listener can't or won't understand. (At this time of year there is an obvious one being told and shown repeatedly.) Now maybe there is need for a process/system change but until that happens just telling the customer this can't be done will normally suffice. Maybe some explanation could be given but again would the customer understand and is there time to do so, plenty more folk in the queue.

So while the response is "untrue" it's good enough for most situations. Now that doesn't excuse the failures in this particular case and the OP then pushed back and got something done.

Originally Posted by Rob (Post 35349433)

I really don't get the extent to which this thread has been rumbling on debating the use of the word "impossible" and that in turn seems to have become such a massive issue and outright lie. It seems harsh to me.

The first few responses clearly indicate the use of the word impossible was appropriate in a figure of speech way as the standard systems in place to the service agent did not allow the changes you were expecting. Further enquiries by your agent then later revealed there was a way to workaround or bend the IT systems in place, but it seems to be that use of that is a rather extreme way of solvinng the problem.

I don't see that it is fair to call the use of the word "impossible", as meaning an outright lie in this instance. After all if Ofcom, the ASA and whoever can allow the use of the word "unlimited" to describe many broadband and phone services, when there are restrictions in place, it is clear to me that the English language is allowed to be distorted.

Originally Posted by Tim Deegan (Post 35349419)

All they have to do is to train them that if they don't know something, to tell the customer that they are going to check, and then go and ask someone. Customers would much rather they do this, than to be told an untrue statement.

Originally Posted by Tim Deegan (Post 35349435)

So what sort of customer am I?????

It seems that you have your own impression of me being some sort of Victor Meldrew. Well I'm afraid you have got me all wrong.

You forget that I also deal with customers. And I know that some of them are impossible to please, no matter what you do or say. But I'm not one of them. If you read one of my earlier posts, you will see that I had excellent service from VM Tivo support only last night. And in fact the gentleman actually diagnosed and reported faults on my phone lines at the same time.



As you said, you don't get it right all the time, none of us do. But when you don't know something, do you go and find out for the customer, or do you just lie to them?

What you can't seem to grasp is that his statement "it isn't possible" was used in the context that nothing could be done, so tough luck. So it wasn't just his wording, he wanted to end the conversation.

Originally Posted by Sirius (Post 35349443)

So are you still saying that VM train there staff to lie Tim yes or no ?

Originally Posted by Tim Deegan (Post 35349450)

Stop trying to twist my words Sirius. You know exactly what I'm saying. Many people are saying that he was following his training, and that it wasn't his fault. Well if this was the case, then what they are saying is that VM trained him to lie. But what is more likely the case, is that the training given by VM was very poor. So when asked to do something that he didn't know how to do, then instead of asking someone, he just took the lazy option, and tried fobbing me off.

Originally Posted by Tim Deegan (Post 35349450)

Stop trying to twist my words Sirius. You know exactly what I'm saying. Many people are saying that he was following his training, and that it wasn't his fault. Well if this was the case, then what they are saying is that VM trained him to lie. But what is more likely the case, is that the training given by VM was very poor. So when asked to do something that he didn't know how to do, then instead of asking someone, he just took the lazy option, and tried fobbing me off.

Originally Posted by Andrewcrawford23 (Post 35349445)

YOur the type of person who isnt a really easy goign person , but nither am i trust me my wife cringes at the complainent i make to companies usually 3-10 pages in length and gneeral cite laws if appicable or things that make godo cusotmer service.

Originally Posted by Andrewcrawford23 (Post 35349445)

The problem most people are having that your doign worng in peoples eyes.... is you are callign the 4th agent a liar it is very harsh word and not appriotate in this instance, lets jsut say he has a disabilty and no matter how much training he gets he will never remeber now you callinga someonea liar due toa disabilty woudl then take you to the extent of being a criminal under law no one really is disputing the system is crap and needs to be better it is how your treating the last cs you spoke to as beinga liar, drop the liar bit and people will more likely agree with you, i suggest you go read a english dictorionary of what lier is, it is someone who knowinly tells you something that is not true, someone who gives the wrong information has just madea mistake and there is no way in the world you would ever know he has intetnionally lied to you on the phone unless he has said he did????

Originally Posted by Sirius (Post 35349455)

I am not twisting your words, You have stated on this forum that VM train there staff to lie so have you now changed that that accusation or not.

Originally Posted by Tim Deegan (Post 35349450)

Stop trying to twist my words Sirius. You know exactly what I'm saying. Many people are saying that he was following his training, and that it wasn't his fault. Well if this was the case, then what they are saying is that VM trained him to lie. But what is more likely the case, is that the training given by VM was very poor. So when asked to do something that he didn't know how to do, then instead of asking someone, he just took the lazy option, and tried fobbing me off.

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35349463)

Speaking of twisting words, you are utilising sophistry yourself, imho - you are stating you are not saying VM CSR's are trained to lie, and in fact you are stating that your interpretation of what others are saying is that VM CSR's are trained to lie; the people who you are referring to deny this interpretation, but you insist on repeating it.:dozey:

Originally Posted by Tim Deegan (Post 35304151)

I'm afraid you are very wrong.

To start with, any staff who deal with customers should not bring problems to work. And therefore personal issues should NEVER have any bearing on the way they deal with customers.

Staff who can't do the above quite simply shouldn't be employed in positions dealing with the public.

If a company (whatever size) employs the right people, and trains them properly, then this alone should eliminate most complaints.

Worst of all is when staff are actually trained to lie to customers, as I have come across a few times with VM.

To be honest I am disgusted that there are two members of VM staff in this forum who instead of passing on customers concerns, actually try and make excuses, and even deny that there is a problem. Well as I have said many times, there is a serious problem with VM's customer service.

You have to remember that VM aren't retailers, they provide a service. And this is a service that should run trouble free on a day to day basis. And I have to say that it usually does, and is in fact very reliable. Even when there are faults that cause disruption in the service, then I accept that as with all technology, this can happen occasionally. And although it can be very annoying (especially when trying to run businesses that rely on communications and IT), it isn't really grounds for a complaint as long as the problem is sorted quickly. With retailers they are relying on products manufactured by third parties, and therefore they are more likely to have complaints.

Complaints usually start out as problems. It's the way that these problems are dealt with that decides if it becomes a complaint. And this is where VM fall flat on their face as far as customer service goes.

The best single way to improve VM's customer service would be to bring the call centres back to the UK. Oh, and stop training staff to lie.

Originally Posted by Tim Deegan (Post 35349458)

Well you don't actually know me so you can't say that. However, I am very easy going until people try to fob me off or lie to me. I was very polite and friendly with the other three CSR's (even though inside I was a bit miffed by the third call).



He knowingly (or ignorantly) told me something that wasn't true, because he was either too lazy to either sort the problem, or to ask someone who did know. So as he represents VM, then I was lied to by VM, as they told me something that wasn't true.


It's a bit like someone saying that milk carton is full, when they haven't actually checked (because they can't be bothered). Now is it a lie or not? It doesn't chage the fact that they were trying to fob someone off because they couldn't be bothered.

---------- Post added at 11:22 ---------- Previous post was at 11:22 ----------



Read my reply.

If as many people have said, he was following his training. Then it is those people who are saying that he was trained to lie.

Originally Posted by oyez (Post 35349461)

I have been a customer with Ntl/virgin for approx 20 years,I phoned up last month to cancel because of an ongoing tv problem the woman I spoke to seemed helpful enough and asked me three times are you sure you still want to cancel I answered yes.:)
Today I got my virgin media bill which showed I was being charged for the period dec26/jan 25 I phoned to query this as I was leaving Virgin and was told that my request to give 30 days notice had not been put on the system so I would have to give another 30 days.:mad:

The guy I spoke to today gave me a termination date and also a date to collect the equipment. But I still have to pay for another Month:mad:

Customer service is abysmal:td:

Originally Posted by Andrewcrawford23 (Post 35349468)

no if i said the milk cartoon is full without checking that isnt knowily liying that just been daft tops for not making sure ie checking, ill agree he should have checked before saying he couldnt do it but he never lied, now with your example

ok i have checked the milk cartoon 5 minutes before oyu ask me about it, i know there very little left, i say to you when you ask me about the milk cartoon, i say it full, now i have lied to you because i knowigly knew the milk cartoon was nearly empty or knew it wasnt full, now that isa liar under english dictoniary

now the same scenario

you ask me about he milk cartoon i say it full but i havent checked, now i am being daft to assume and not check before giving you the answer but i ahve not lied to you i have gave you the wrong information because i madea assumption based on what i cant say because it just a dummy scenario but in this case there is the potential i coudl have lied to you an there the higher potential i was just daft and nver checked, now if you say the agent potential lied to me ill agree that is true but nither you nor me or anyone can prove it otherwise without putting the agent on a lie detector test

you aint said anything about the possible of the agent havent a disabilty like dsylexica so impossible might be part of his limited vocaliabilty and not know other words that better describe what he means, cause trust me if i ever had you on the phone and then foudn you saying this i owuld filea report to the police under the equailty discrimation act because my vocaliabilty is poor and i cant always describe wha ti mean

Originally Posted by Dustymiller (Post 35349483)

What a waste of IP packets this thred is.

Lets firstly go to the Oxford English Dictionary:

To lie =df to make a false statement with the intention to deceive.

There was no "intention to deceive" as far as I can tell, the knowledge that the CSR had was that your request was impossible to achieve.

Therefore there was no lie. - Simple really. Retract your stamement and lets move on.

Originally Posted by Tim Deegan (Post 35349475)

Exactly. Yours is another example.

However in your case you should escalate it to a manager. If you cancelled your direct debit, then what could they do?

---------- Post added at 11:51 ---------- Previous post was at 11:47 ----------



That's why I said, is it a lie or not?

The fact is that whatever reason the CSR had for making an untrue statement. The fact is that there are other people in the company who do know. So as he made an untrue statement on behalf of the company, then I was lied to by VM.


And forget all this nit picking about exact wording and examples. The fact remains that it is terrible customer service, which is what this thread is about.

Originally Posted by Tim Deegan (Post 35348719)

On Sunday I still didn't have HD movies, so I called again. I was then told that they wouldn't be activating my HD until Tuesday. I explained what I had been told the previous day, and about the text message. To which he answered that it was impossible to activate the HD before Tuesday. As you can imagine I was getting rather annoyed with being messed about. So I told him that if it wasn't sorted then I would take my whole account to Sky. At this he put me on hold for a while, then came back to say that he had now activated the HD. By now I was furious. Not because he had activated the HD, but because he had blatantly lied to me.

So my question is: why can't VM give consistent good customer service. And why can't they be honest with customers???? If they built up a good reputation, then far more people would use them due to their excellent product.

Originally Posted by Tim Deegan (Post 35349450)

Stop trying to twist my words Sirius. You know exactly what I'm saying. Many people are saying that he was following his training, and that it wasn't his fault. Well if this was the case, then what they are saying is that VM trained him to lie. But what is more likely the case, is that the training given by VM was very poor. So when asked to do something that he didn't know how to do, then instead of asking someone, he just took the lazy option, and tried fobbing me off.

Originally Posted by Tim Deegan (Post 35349458)

If as many people have said, he was following his training. Then it is those people who are saying that he was trained to lie.

Originally Posted by Tim Deegan (Post 35304151)

Worst of all is when staff are actually trained to lie to customers, as I have come across a few times with VM.


Oh, and stop training staff to lie.

Originally Posted by Tim Deegan (Post 35349137)

Time is money, and my time is very valuable. I can really do without having to waste my time....

Originally Posted by Sirius (Post 35349509)

I bet if someone came on this forum and accused you of training your staff to lie to your customers you would be very annoyed and shouting from the roof tops about it ????

Originally Posted by Dustymiller (Post 35349483)

What a waste of IP packets this thread is.

Lets firstly go to the Oxford English Dictionary:

To lie = to make a false statement with the intention to deceive.

There was no "intention to deceive" as far as I can tell, the knowledge that the CSR had was that your request was impossible to achieve.

Therefore there was no lie. - Simple really. Retract your stamement and lets move on.

Originally Posted by Andrewcrawford23 (Post 35349486)

the terrible service you and the poster your quoted is terrible i agree but the reaosn teis thread is so long and heated is yoru instnce ona lie form the agent when the word lie as the psoter below you has said is with intetnion since you cant prove he intetnd to lie retrect the statement of the lie and people will be on your side about hte poor CS you have have had

Originally Posted by Stuart (Post 35349503)

So, Tim, have you considered that maybe the agent was under the impression that the channels would not activate immediately, then was proved wrong? For instance, if the system they needed to use to activate the channels had been offline and he only found out it was back online part way through your phone call when he tried to activate the channels, and the attempt unexpectedly worked? I work in a role that sometimes involves answering technical queries over the phone, and I've experienced something similar. A system I needed to access had been down, I tried to access it during a call only to find it had come back online and we hadn't been notified.

While I accept that some staff are quite capable of lying, I am struggling to understand why you are so wound up about this. He has managed to activate your channels two days earlier than he said he would. While that could technically be a lie, you have gained, not lost out. What would you rather VM did? Cut off your movie channels for a couple of days so that the agent didn't lie?

Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35349519)

What I don't get is why someone who's told us this:



would waste so much of it here posting about this. :confused: ;)

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35349550)

Don't forget - his firm gives "a 100% satisfaction guarantee"*.....

btw, I see you have very good reviews from your customers on the web for your company - I especially liked this one.

*with exceptions** ;)

**which surely means it can't be 100%, as 100% of something includes everything...:D

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35349564)

Strange....

In the OP, you stated

Originally Posted by Stephen (Post 35349568)

There was no intention to decieve at all! You are totally twisting what happened and trying to get everyone to believe you......which they don't.

There was not poor CS at all. The person you spoke to did everything they could to help you out and eventually bent the rules to sort things out for you.

The cake is a lie! That is all.

Originally Posted by Tim Deegan (Post 35349571)

Here we go again, a VM employee with his head in the sand, thinking that VM can't possibly have done anything wrong! Who are you trying to convince?

Stop defending poor service. We all know that VM are one of the worst as far as the comms companies go. And you are still trying to deny that taking 4 phone calls to get something right is good customer service.

Originally Posted by Stephen (Post 35349573)

making a mountain out of a mole hill.

Originally Posted by Tim Deegan (Post 35349571)

Here we go again, a VM employee with his head in the sand, thinking that VM can't possibly have done anything wrong! Who are you trying to convince?

Stop defending poor service. We all know that VM are one of the worst as far as the comms companies go. And you are still trying to deny that taking 4 phone calls to get something right is good customer service.

Originally Posted by Stephen (Post 35349573)

This has nothing to do with being a VM employee.

For the tiny issue of not having some HD channels you are really making a mountain out of a mole hill. You called up 4 times, when really if you had just waited a couple more days and then called it would have only taken that one phone call to resolve the small issue.

As I mentioned I use the same system on a daily basis so I know how it works.

It was not poor service at all. Poor service would be not getting the issue resolved!

Originally Posted by Tim Deegan (Post 35349579)

Well that just sums up the training of VM employees if they think it is good CS.

Originally Posted by Tim Deegan (Post 35349571)

Here we go again, a VM employee with his head in the sand, thinking that VM can't possibly have done anything wrong! Who are you trying to convince?

Stop defending poor service. We all know that VM are one of the worst as far as the comms companies go. And you are still trying to deny that taking 4 phone calls to get something right is good customer service.

Originally Posted by paultrademark (Post 35349575)

I said that about 8 pages ago and got into trouble for it :p:

Tim, have you done as myself and others have suggested and contacted complaints?

In all fairness, I've dealt with some hellish CS reps from VM (and other companies too), and the latest one was just a few weeks ago from VM.

The complaints team person we got (well CEO team), put a goodwill gesture on my account after the investigation they did for the terrible attitude by one particular VM Employee, and hopefully it was fed back to them as a training issue.

Originally Posted by Sirius (Post 35349582)

So i take it your going to ignore my question in post 172

Originally Posted by Masque (Post 35349576)

Maybbe you should take your head out of the sand and read the facts according to OFCOM.

http://www.ispreview.co.uk/story/201...isfaction.html

As I said above you are complaining about an agent who did his level best to help you and you then call them a liar, do you have such high standards in your own business or do you turn a blind eye as long as it results in a sale, now be honest.

The agent went above ad beyond and you label him a liar, that is truly sad and vindictive, I wonder how high an employee turnover your business has.

Originally Posted by Tim Deegan (Post 35349584)

Like I said, this thread is about poor CS from VM in general. This was only one example of many.

I have also said before that usually it is the overseas call centres who give terrible service, and the UK ones are usually ok.

The reason I haven't complained on this occasion is because I feel it is mainly training and company policies that are at fault. So putting in a complaint about any one, or all four of the CSR's would probably more likely drop them in it, rather than change the way the company operates.

Originally Posted by Tim Deegan (Post 35349584)

I have answered your questions

Originally Posted by Masque (Post 35349590)

I see you are ignoring my questions about the training of your own staff, I think that in essence answers everyones questions that you obviously have double standards as I bet you tell your staff to hook the customer by any means possible especially with them probably having targets to attain.

You dislike the thought of someone trying their best to help you because you then accuse them of lying as they were able to get your issue sorted out, that is going the extra mile in anyones book unlike an unscrupulous salesperson in a showroom.

Originally Posted by Sirius (Post 35349593)

Sorry but i dont seem to be able to find the answer to the questions in post 172

Originally Posted by Masque (Post 35349507)

You just fail to understand that agents must follow a certain process and sometimes that process will disallow certain things, so the first three agents would not do it but the forth went away and found a way to do it and because of that he lied to you, AMAZING, most people would consider that as going the extra mile but sadly not you, I wish that the agent could read this and then call you up and say sorry the has been a mistake and we have to cancel it.

Originally Posted by Tim Deegan (Post 35349594)

And I have also told you on many occasions that my gripe is with the poor training and policies of VM, and not with individuals......read my first post.

Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35349596)

Maybe this thread should be used by VM as a training exercise ;).In my opinion the biggest mistake made by the cs rep was using the word "impossible".As soon as that word is used then the rep is in a hole he/she can never get out of without making him/herself look poorly trained or inexperienced (the latter is the issue here i think)

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35349550)

btw, I see you have very good reviews from your customers on the web for your company - I especially liked this one.

Originally Posted by Masque (Post 35349601)

Actually that is quite incorrect as the agents found they could not do it but the fourth found out how and was therefore accused of lying because they managed to sort out the issue, that is completely out of order.

Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35349619)

In all my dealings with customers the first rule is never say never .You just don't say that a thing is impossible because usually there is a way to achieve it .I appreciate that to all intents and purposes what Tim wanted done was impossible ....for the reps he spoke to .......because they didn't have the necesary permissions but it was possible for a manager .It is splitting hairs i know .As i have said i would not call the rep a liar and think Tim is wrong to do so

Originally Posted by Maggy J (Post 35349623)

I think the point has been made by both the OP and everyone else.Why not agree to disagree and leave it at that? :erm:

Originally Posted by Sirius (Post 35349627)

And just let him carry on getting away with accusing VM staff of lying :rolleyes:

Originally Posted by Sirius (Post 35349627)

And just let him carry on getting away with accusing VM staff of lying :rolleyes: