Re: Ban smoking in cars, says British Medical Association
 

I brought dogs up on another forum and I did get some agreement but there is some people out there who think dogs are as precious as family members and get offensive at the idea that a dog can turn on a human, most people seemed to think tho whilst there is a risk its ok as long as the dog is trained right.

My view is that there needs to be law changes on dogs.

Something like this.

Introduce dog ownership licenses.
Forbid individual personal owners from getting a dog from one of those stray dog centres. (seems really common, my sister got her dog from one of these). As the history of the dog isnt known.
Ban more breeds.
Require dogs to be muzzled around children, so I dont think they should be banned around children but I do this they should be muzzled.

The uk is a very dog friendly country tho, no government will restrict the law barring a big news event that changes public opinion.

Re: Ban smoking in cars, says British Medical Association
 

Re: Ban smoking in cars, says British Medical Association
 

To answer Stuart the study that showed eliquid to be more dangerous then tobacco has now been completely discredited although it is still trotted out often by those with an agenda towards ecigarettes. Reason why they can't start producing themselves is because that would show they have been lying about ecigs for the last few years and in the case of big pharma ecigs although supported by many medical professionals are not part of any smoking cessation program whilst nrt products by big pharma are and are sold to the NHS at massive profit.

If buying from reputable suppliers there are generally five ingredients propylene glycol which is in many things people ingest daily and is also used in some hospitals as an air sanitizer through air systems, vegetable glycerine also ingested daily by many millions in one form or another, water though not in all liquid, flavouring food grade already approved and on sale freely and nicotine base liquid usually in PG or VG pending on the type of vaper. There are studies being done on the effects of ecigarettes and eliquid and obviously it's going to be some time before we have a definitive answer but most independents will say that the likelihood of ecigarettes being anywhere near as harmful as tobacco are remote. There is an organisation called casaa where you can read up for more info I'm far from an expert on the subject.

Every smoker I know doesn't smoke in their cars when children are present neither do they smoke in their homes when children are there I know not all smokers are that considerate but more are then are not that needs to be remembered.

Re: Ban smoking in cars, says British Medical Association
 

Personally I would ban smoking in cars full stop.

Re: Ban smoking in cars, says British Medical Association
 

Is that why you gave up smoking. because you're clumsy and kept setting fire to your cars? :)

I wouldn't ban smoking in cars. but I would put the price of them down.

Re: Ban smoking in cars, says British Medical Association
 

Yeh, but you've give up now. sorry :)

Re: Ban smoking in cars, says British Medical Association
 

I'll be honest, I am neither pro or anti e cigarettes. I don't smoke anyway, but I know giving up smoking is hard and I think people should go for what works for them.

I am concerned that the e cigarette market is largely unregulated at the moment, so people *could* be using pretty much anything in their fluids. The BMA is also concerned about the lack of regulation for e cigs, but their concern seems largely that people will gradually start to accept e cigs, and work their way back to accepting normal cigarettes. http://bma.org.uk/working-for-change...o/e-cigarettes

Regarding the ban on smoking in cars. I actually feel this is a good thing, but fail to see how it can be enforced efficiently.

Re: Ban smoking in cars, says British Medical Association
 

Where does it say that? I can't see it.

One thing I did find I can't make sense of.

I've read it slowly but still can't make sense of it. as if something has been missed out.

No evidence to suggest that more people will take up smoking electronic cigs rather than smoke real ones?

How can they say that?
Why would they say that?

Re: Ban smoking in cars, says British Medical Association
 

Both the UK and USA ecigarette industry has called for regulation and has put forward many suggestions for how to regulate the industry most reputable suppliers already have declarations that no one under the age of 18 should enter their sites or purchase ecig related products. China of course is another matter but aren't they in everything lol but you don't see Samsung and apple to name but two products be banned. Smoking in cars ban is not something I'd go along for but then as stated earlier all the smokers I know are responsible and considerate.

Re: Ban smoking in cars, says British Medical Association
 

It's back in the news again. ready for October.

they're gonna get it in whilst society is in the mood for dobbing each other in and wanting to rip each others heads off.

you'll be sitting at the lights and you'll see a woman smoking with a 'kid' up to 18 in the car. and you'll be shouting all sorts of swear words and getting out and beating her to a pulp because the new turn society against each other has come in.

should be fun at the school runs.
women in their pyjamas rolling around the floor with each other.

Re: Ban smoking in cars, says British Medical Association
 

Oh Gary you do dramatise things sometimes.

Re: Ban smoking in cars, says British Medical Association
 

Ok. ignore the pyjamas and rolling around on the floor bit.

Re: Ban smoking in cars, says British Medical Association
 

Damn - that was the bit I was looking forward to.

Re: Ban smoking in cars, says British Medical Association
 

We all were :(

Re: Ban smoking in cars, says British Medical Association
 

What happens if the smoking passenger is under 18?

Re: Ban smoking in cars, says British Medical Association
 

The government wins £50 off the driver.

I don't know what happens if all 4 chavs under 18 in the car are smoking.

I reckon because there's concerns about the police are too busy and such. I reckon Dave will come up with an idea of creating jobs by employing 'smoke wardens'
they will be looking out for offenders all over the country.

I just thought. Dave will be long gone when this comes in.
change Dave for Nigel above.

and taking bets on whether the one in the pink spots pyjamas will win the chequered blue pyjama's fight.

Re: Ban smoking in cars, says British Medical Association
 

I just like the idea that they are calling for smoking to be banned in the car while barely acknowledging the fact that people are not only breathing in the smoke inside the car, but also breathing in all sorts of potentially dangerous pollution that's coming from both the car you are in, and all the other cars around it.

To totally mangle an old expression, it seems a little like fixing the barn door not only after your horse has bolted, but while the rest of the herd are bolting through the hole in the barn wall you are ignoring.

Re: Ban smoking in cars, says British Medical Association
 

That's why I'm campaigning for high taxes placed on cars by way of including the tax on top of the price of petrol.

the money raised can go towards the NHS in treating everybody that has suffered the effects of pollution from vehicles and such.

the taxes will deter people from owning a car and walking everywhere.
God didn't give us legs just to walk to and from cars.

Re: Ban smoking in cars, says British Medical Association
 

a good traffic jam must be worth 100 fags

Re: Ban smoking in cars, says British Medical Association
 

So it passed as a law in Wales yesterday, very quietly so as to not disturb the public.

And the wedge continues to be driven in against smoking (and vaping).

Re: Ban smoking in cars, says British Medical Association
 

And just how effective it will be with the cutbacks in the police force remains to be seen.

Re: Ban smoking in cars, says British Medical Association
 

Exactly. And the question of what to do if the smoker is under 18 does not seem to have been addressed.

"A Smoke Free Wales" is gathering momentum. I wonder how "they" will feel when Wales is given tax-raising powers, including tobacco tax? And then there is no tobacco tax 'cos it's a "Smoke Free Wales" ? Border guards ready to confiscate illegally imported baccy?

Re: Ban smoking in cars, says British Medical Association
 

Exactly.
you could drive without a seatbelt whilst using a mobile phone and smoking a fag.

there's only a copper who can do anything.

you might have one pass you coming the other way 15 miles into your journey. he might not notice. or if he did notice he has to decide whether he can be arsed.

then you travel for another 50 miles knowing that the odds are probably 500 to 1.
500 cars to 1 copper.

Re: Ban smoking in cars, says British Medical Association
 

It's like a stream of consciousness, only without the consciousness..... ;)

Re: Ban smoking in cars, says British Medical Association
 

What happens if you drive a convertible..... ?

Re: Ban smoking in cars, says British Medical Association
 

I keep telling you. it's the doctor you need to be telling. not us :D

Re: Ban smoking in cars, says British Medical Association
 

They'd probably fine you for polluting the air of minor pedestrians.

A full in-car smoking ban is next I suspect.

Re: Ban smoking in cars, says British Medical Association
 

And I'd welcome that. You cannot concentrate on the road if you're trying to light up at the same time.

Re: Ban smoking in cars, says British Medical Association
 

Nor can you by changing the radio station/cd/track on spotify or taking a drink from a coffee/can of pop


So lets not install car stereos or cupholders just to make sure

Re: Ban smoking in cars, says British Medical Association
 

All those can be done from the steering wheel.

Indeed people have been prosecuted for doing that.


Emotive much? I can lift a can to my lips when driving and keep my eyes on the road. In fact I'd say just about everyone could.

Re: Ban smoking in cars, says British Medical Association
 

I can reach for a cigarette and use a lighter whilst keeping my eyes on the road, your point being?

Surely the action is having a hand off the steering wheel/gear lever etc. therefore not being in full control of the vehicle.

Re: Ban smoking in cars, says British Medical Association
 

I've not said anything about taking your hands off the wheel. I'm talking about taking your EYES off the road. Only you'd know for certain but I'd find it very hard to believe you can light up without looking at what you're doing. Every person I've ever seen lighting up keeps their eyes on it.

Once you've lit the cigarette do you keep it in your mouth for the full journey?

Re: Ban smoking in cars, says British Medical Association
 

I get distracted from all the girls in short skirts and long legs in this weather.

I've been very close to having an accident.

Re: Ban smoking in cars, says British Medical Association
 

And what about in your car?

Re: Ban smoking in cars, says British Medical Association
 

Right there......

No, I tend to flick the ash out of the window occasionally, my cigarettes and lighter stay in the hollow just in front of where my handbrake is

I don't think your eyes are going to help much if you suddenly need to steer, change gear and brake at the same time?

Re: Ban smoking in cars, says British Medical Association
 

:confused:

Admirable but odd that you'd light up then keep the cigarette out of your grasp for most of the time it's lit.

A good idea to not smoke a cigarette whilst driving then?

Re: Ban smoking in cars, says British Medical Association
 

Its exacly the same as drinking from a can whilst driving. Why do you think there is a difference in having a hand on a fag and having a hand on a can

Re: Ban smoking in cars, says British Medical Association
 

Congrats, my first guffaw of the day.

---------- Post added at 15:52 ---------- Previous post was at 15:44 ----------

As an ex-smoker I have some sympathy, but not much.

As an active drinker, who loves a tipple, I find I am banned from drinking in most public places, I am limited to the amount I can drink whilst driving in my car, and after I've drunk several pints I find I can be arrested for urinating in public or in other people's personal space.

It's just not fair.

Re: Ban smoking in cars, says British Medical Association
 

Exactly !!!!

---------- Post added at 16:18 ---------- Previous post was at 16:17 ----------

Thats just a ridiculous statement

Re: Ban smoking in cars, says British Medical Association
 

It was Semi-jest, with an element of truth.

Which bit was rediculous?

Is there really a massive difference between exhaling smoke from your lungs next to people that, don't want to, breathe it in. And urinating your consumed alcohol next to people that don't want you to?

I would say not much, in fact I would say that urinating next to someone has less health implications and is less invasive than smoking next to them..............

Re: Ban smoking in cars, says British Medical Association
 

Most people who drink liquids are able to go entire journeys without needing to drink.

Re: Ban smoking in cars, says British Medical Association
 

That is in my car.

you think you're ahead. but you're actually way behind ;)

Re: Ban smoking in cars, says British Medical Association
 

I smoke ten cigs over the course of an evening and I can drive with no issues you drink ten pints and then drive......

---------- Post added at 17:09 ---------- Previous post was at 17:08 ----------


Implying smokers can't? Odd, always had you down Russ as someone who didn't make sweeping generalisations!

Re: Ban smoking in cars, says British Medical Association
 

Sorry to disappoint you - I thought smoking was an addiction?

Re: Ban smoking in cars, says British Medical Association
 

That's what you think I think you're thinking, but I might not be thinking what you think I think I'm thinking.....

Re: Ban smoking in cars, says British Medical Association
 

Well my point was more the passive smoking angle

Re: Ban smoking in cars, says British Medical Association
 

It is but are you suggesting smokers cannot go without a cigarette for any period of time ?

Re: Ban smoking in cars, says British Medical Association
 

As effective as the ban on mobile phones while driving.

---------- Post added at 19:14 ---------- Previous post was at 19:12 ----------

At my work the only official smoking times are 10:00 to 10:10, 12:30 to 13:00 & 15:00 to 15:10. Yet I know some smokers go around the back and have a crafty ciggy.

Re: Ban smoking in cars, says British Medical Association
 

It's not illegal to smoke under 18 ,the same as it's not illegal to drink under 18 ,also the problem of under 18's is being addressed by increasing the smoking ban to areas that children may be present.

---------- Post added at 19:23 ---------- Previous post was at 19:19 ----------

The point is that something is being done ,if the council go ahead with this proposal then there will be an option to prosecute should it be deemed necessary .The same ban exists in New York and doesn't cause that much of a issue.

Re: Ban smoking in cars, says British Medical Association
 

So your judgment on smokers is based on where you work and then extrapolated to the n'th degree ?

Re: Ban smoking in cars, says British Medical Association
 

Depends what you mean by a period of time. 2 minutes? Maybe. Before I moved closer to my office the drive to work was around 1 hour 15 minutes. I don't imagine many smokers would be able to go without lighting up for that long. I reckon most drivers could make that journey without needing to drink something though, the urge to do that is probably lower than the pull of a nicotine addiction.

Re: Ban smoking in cars, says British Medical Association
 

Its all about the routine of a smoker as well, if he or she always smokes in the car then it would be hard for them to break that cycle, when I used to smoke it was the drive to and from work that I would smoke the most.

Re: Ban smoking in cars, says British Medical Association
 

:bump:

A ban on smoking in cars carrying children comes into force in Scotland today.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...itics-38184585

Re: Ban smoking in cars, says British Medical Association
 

I'm sure it will be enforced as effectively as in England::erm:

Linky

Re: Ban smoking in cars, says British Medical Association
 

So people can still smoke in their car if there are no children involved?

Re: Ban smoking in cars, says British Medical Association
 

Yep

Re: Ban smoking in cars, says British Medical Association
 

Personally It should be illegal to smoke in the car, I've seen people on the M11 one hand hold the cig and the other lighting it, and the say holding a mobile in one hand is more dangerous.

Re: Ban smoking in cars, says British Medical Association
 

What happens if the smoker is actually under 18 (which is perfectly legal) , but the passengers are all adults ?

Re: Ban smoking in cars, says British Medical Association
 

I think that would be fine.

An adult can't smoke when children are present in the car, but there's nothing to say that a 'child' cannot smoke when adults are present in the car.

I don't agree with the smoking ban in all enclosed public areas, but found it odd that whilst adults who should be able to make an informed choice about going into a pub, restaurant etc that either does or doesn't allow smoking, a child could have no say in the matter about being forced into a small metal box filled with smoke for potentially hours on end!

So whilst I do support this change in the law, I doubt it will make any difference.

The cuts to the police budget means that they have more pressing matters to attend to and responsible parents wouldn't do it regardless of the law.

Those who don't care about their childrens health are unlikely to care about complying with this new law either.

Re: Ban smoking in cars, says British Medical Association
 

What happens when one smoker is 19yrs and one smoker is 17rs ? This legislation is typical of populist legislation the various governments tend to introduce lately ,it appeals to a minority but is so full of holes it doesn't work .

Incidentally in Scotland it is illegal to smoke,be in possession of and sell tobacco products to under 18's

In England and Wales it is only illegal to sell tobacco products to under 18's ,why the massive differences in legislation ? Prior to 2007 the minimum age to buy and consume tobacco was 16yrs ,why did the then Labour government remove the age restriction to smoke ?

Re: Ban smoking in cars, says British Medical Association
 

Isnt there a smoking ban in work vans as well. I dont even think that works I see it all the time.

Re: Ban smoking in cars, says British Medical Association
 

You see reports all the time of a self-employed person being fined for smoking in their own van, a van no-one else has access too. A guy recently got fined for not displaying a no smoking sign in his own van!

A lot of legislation over the past few years seems to be the result of bored lobbyists, lefty loonies or similar. Fiddling around the edges instead of solving the country's real problems.

Re: Ban smoking in cars, says British Medical Association
 

The nanny state in action!

Re: Ban smoking in cars, says British Medical Association
 

Not specifically there isn't no .The restriction applies to the workplace which includes work vans and company cars

Re: Ban smoking in cars, says British Medical Association
 

Its classified as a work place.

Re: Ban smoking in cars, says British Medical Association
 

This happened to a self employed gardner I know the day after the smoking ban was introduced.

A policeman stopped him for it. They'll then have the cheek to say they are undermanned, short of resources and expect the help of the public.

---------- Post added at 00:50 ---------- Previous post was at 00:49 ----------

See post 165. I can't see anything to prevent a 'child' under 18 smoking in a car with someone over 18 present.

Re: Ban smoking in cars, says British Medical Association
 

That's because it's classed as smoking in the workplace and you can't really criticize the police for enforcing a law ,no matter how ludicrous you think that law is .


I meant that if a person over 18 is smoking in the presence of an under 18yr old who is also smoking

Re: Ban smoking in cars, says British Medical Association
 

The question doesn't arise in Scotland, where the legal smoking age was lifted to 18 in 2007.

Re: Ban smoking in cars, says British Medical Association
 

It's a question of prioritising more important matters IMO, especially when they are ignoring intelligence received about suspected internet paedophiles and sending out DIY fingerprint kits to victims of burglary due to "a lack of resources".

From the point of view of this new legislation, I don't think it would matter if the under 18 year old was smoking, the over 18 year old would still be committing an offence.

However, from what I've read, it's more or less being ignored by the police and only one person has been prosecuted thus far, so nothing is likely to happen in practice.

So an adult is stopped for smoking on his own in his own van, yet children who are forced to sit in a metal box full of smoke are ignored.

There was a joke going round Facebook that said 'the law of unintended consequences', where a child was stood outside in the rain whilst her dad had a cig in his car :D