Re: All Encompassing Are You Religious and Why Thread
 

Totally agree.

Science is about proof, faith is about belief.

Re: All Encompassing Are You Religious and Why Thread
 

as far as i can tell faith is about no proof and no interest in finding any .

Re: All Encompassing Are You Religious and Why Thread
 

Totally agree.

I've always thought of faith as being hope.

Re: All Encompassing Are You Religious and Why Thread
 

Faith is the belief in something without proof surely.

Re: All Encompassing Are You Religious and Why Thread
 

I have faith in humanity....

Re: All Encompassing Are You Religious and Why Thread
 

That's how i would define it ...in the context of this thread anyway .So in my opinion Atheism and religion require faith as the existence or non existence of a supernatural being cannot be proven at this time

Re: All Encompassing Are You Religious and Why Thread
 

and isn't that convenient . no proof necessary .

Re: All Encompassing Are You Religious and Why Thread
 

I don't believe anything.I know there are no gods.So I can't prove it but neither can the theists.

Also at the end of it all I don't actually care whether there is a god(s).Life is way too short to be worrying about it.I'll let others worry about it.

Re: All Encompassing Are You Religious and Why Thread
 

martyh at what point in time did it become the norm to prove the none existence of something ?

Re: All Encompassing Are You Religious and Why Thread
 

When people became Atheist and said "god does not exist" almost as if they knew for certain .If someone makes a statement as fact they should provide proof or at least have "faith" that their statement is true especially if neither side of the argument can be proven as true

Re: All Encompassing Are You Religious and Why Thread
 

The option for "None of the above" appears to be missing? :angel:

Re: All Encompassing Are You Religious and Why Thread
 

No it shouldn't. I say all sorts of things don't exist, almost for certain, and shouldn't be expected to provide proof they do not exist. We, or at least I since Atheism doesn't mean having faith in nothing, work on the assumption that something isn't true until it's proven or at least have enough evidence to be most likely true.

For example I cannot rule out entirely the existence of Scientology's Xenu nor faries that doesn't mean I have to work on the presumption that they might exist.

Re: All Encompassing Are You Religious and Why Thread
 

So if someone says to me there is/are a god(s) then the onus is on them to provide the proof.

However if I tell a person of faith that their god does not exist the burden of proof falls to me.

Well there lies the whole solution.

Atheists must never tell those of faith that their god does not exist and theists must always provide proof when telling an atheist that god does exist.;)

End of conversation..Now what really big question shall we talk about?Something that both sides can get behind and really come to a conclusion about.

How to provide enough food for the whole world and ensure that no one ever starves to death again? Hmmmm!
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Re: All Encompassing Are You Religious and Why Thread
 

Or who's the better act. Johnny, or Jedward?

Re: All Encompassing Are You Religious and Why Thread
 

In all honesty I don't see why people of faith get upset if they are told by someone else that God doesn't exist. I don't see any problem with it, as long as you are not rediculed for your believing/not believing in God.

Life is too short, religion works for some, it doesnt work for others...Let's all move along and get on with it.

Re: All Encompassing Are You Religious and Why Thread
 

That's just it. get on with what?
some people are lost without religion. they either have nothing to live for, or nothing to to fight for.

Re: All Encompassing Are You Religious and Why Thread
 

On Cable Forum? Ever the optimist Hugh...

Re: All Encompassing Are You Religious and Why Thread
 

Because there is no room for it, the options presented are yes, no and one covering 'maybe' and non-specific beliefs that aren't consistent with organised religions or atheism :)

If in doubt then by definition you're agnostic.

Re: All Encompassing Are You Religious and Why Thread
 

I was being tongue in cheek you know.However I'm unable to find a tongue in cheek smiley.;)

Re: All Encompassing Are You Religious and Why Thread
 

I'm surprised you made it so restrictive. This is not intended as a dig in any way but in many of the discussions I've had with self-professed humanists, all have viewed religion/faith/whatever as being very black-or-white.

It may make it easier for your lot to 'pigeon hole' those with faith (and in some cases it might be appropriate) but it makes it very difficult for us to get our point across in a way you'd understand - it's like my asking you "do you like music" with only 'yes' or 'no' as options.

For example, I have no religion, I don't follow a religion and I'm not part of a religion yet I am very sure about what I believe in, which option do I choose?

As it is, it would have to be 'none of the above' had it been a choice.

Re: All Encompassing Are You Religious and Why Thread
 

Huh. I thought you were a Pentecostal Christian? Have I missed something?

Re: All Encompassing Are You Religious and Why Thread
 

I am and no you haven't.

Re: All Encompassing Are You Religious and Why Thread
 

I gathered - I was just expressing that I dont see why do a lot of people of religion/no religion see fit to redicule each others beliefs. Does anyone here really care if someone else is religious or not. I mean does it really matter? Unless people are looking to impose their views on others then what you are, how you bring up your kids, how you live your live is surely up to you - and in this day and age I'm suprised you cant do so without redicule or having to proof god exists/doesnt exist.

My take on religion is simple - if when i die I find there is no live after death, no God, no Allah, no prophet Muhammed waiting for me in heaven, no 70 virgins to deflower, no rivers flowing in wine etc etc etc will it make any difference. No it wont. There certainly wont be anyone around to tell me "I told you so". But my religion suits ME, it suits MYfamily and it suits the way i want to bring up MY kids, and for the here and now, I take comfort and satisfaction from it.

Re: All Encompassing Are You Religious and Why Thread
 

This is where I get stuck, I ain't an expert, but if I say as a question, do Pentecostal use a kind of brainwashing techniques, would that be out of line?

I can pretty much gather what the response from those would be, but like everything else, I find it hard to know when you're crossing that (to me) invisible line to when questioning becomes confrontational to them on their part.

Re: All Encompassing Are You Religious and Why Thread
 

None of the Pentecostal churches or events I have attended have ever had any 'brainwashing' (although I'm pretty sure some will try to stretch its definition to say that they have).

Nobody attends who does not want to be there. Nobody is forced/embarrassed/blackmailed/tricked in to staying. Nobody is threatened to attend. Neither is anyone threatened with "hellfire and brimstone etc" if they do not attend on a sunday, simply because the Bible does not say it is a requirement. An expectation perhaps but nothing more.

Re: All Encompassing Are You Religious and Why Thread
 

Depends what you believe in. If you believe in a deity then theist, if not atheist, and if your not sure then agnostic. You could narrow it further by segmenting the agnostic group into their level of conviction such a theist agnostic or atheist agnostic but personally I am not a fan of those classifications.

Re: All Encompassing Are You Religious and Why Thread
 

I wouldn't be so sure about that - I know people that believe in a god but are not sure who or what he/she/it is, and consider themselves agnostic.

It's a shame the poll only has 3 options and I'd have loved to have sunk my teeth in to this - it started off quite intelligently (very unusual for this type of subject) and showed promise but with those options the results will be pretty meaningless.

Re: All Encompassing Are You Religious and Why Thread
 

I think it could still be an interesting debate. The three choices are very broad camps but they suffice. Complexities can be address and discussed in comments where we have more words to express them. If we added more options to the poll there would be further sub-categories that are missed out.

Re: All Encompassing Are You Religious and Why Thread
 

Agnostic is the issue as a choice that won't fit most people who believe themselves to be neither theistic or atheistic.. Given a wider choice I'd expect there to be more people in the middle than the current atheistic vote leader.

..but how far do we go ..... ;)

Re: All Encompassing Are You Religious and Why Thread
 

I disagree - I don't fit in to any of them. Most of us "religious-types" (not my choice of wording but it's what people of faith seem to be called these days) do not like to be pigeon-holed so specifically.

Re: All Encompassing Are You Religious and Why Thread
 

I take what you are saying Russ (I think) but is your defining yourself as a pentecostal christian not pigeon holing yourself?

Re: All Encompassing Are You Religious and Why Thread
 

On the surface maybe but without wanting to come across as patronising, I'm simply 'putting the sweets on the lowest shelf'.

(in any case, the 'pigeon-holing' comment was referring to how the 3 options in the poll are not, funnily enough, encompassing enough for me to take part).

If I was a Catholic then yes I would consider myself religious. I'm no fan of Catholicism (note to the armchair experts: Catholicism and Christianity are not the same thing and their Pope does not speak for all Christians) but I'll use it as an example. It is an organised group which has rules, rituals and people can be removed from it. If people wish to follow it and become a Catholic then that's their right and all the power to them.

I do not belong to a denomination. I am a Christian, that's about as far as it goes. I only go under the banner of pentecostal as that's the closest church to me which has views, beliefs and thoughts which are agreeable to me. There is no structure like Catholicism, nobody tells anyone they must believe in this or have to undertake that ritual/rite of passage. Nobody is threatened with expulsion/eternal damnation.

Just come along and offer worship if you feel like it, join in with the songs (always very cheery and yes, happy-clappy) or not, listen to what the pastor has to say, leave when you want.

No pressure, no hate.

The way I see it is religion is man's attempt to reach God, Christianity is God's attempt to reach man. I don't have rules or regulations I have to follow, I do things because I want to and because it feels right to me. Prayer/worship/faith/beliefs are (IMO) personal between the individual and God, no need for any 'middle-man' or intercession by an organisation.

Re: All Encompassing Are You Religious and Why Thread
 

Thanks for that Russ, very insightful.

Just on the parts quoted below - and out of genuine interest...

If you don't consider that you have rules or regulations you have to follow then what part does Christianity (which appears to me to be very rules and scripture based) play in your everyday life as a christian?

If there's no need for a "middle man" or intercession by an organisation then where does participation at group level through your attendance at pentecostal services with a pastor fit with that assertion?

I appreciate that you attend of your own free will as and when you elect to do so but it seems to be the case that you are saying there is no merit / need for the involvement of third parties (singular or otherwise) which begs the question "why bother with the others"?

Re: All Encompassing Are You Religious and Why Thread
 

Far too many too mention. But I do things and see things in a certain way because I WANT to - not because I'm TOLD to, or threatened to. My faith is not some behavioural 'straightjacket'.

It's the Fellowship. Being around other like-minded people. It's the same reason you'd find me on certain wrestling and football forums.

I've been up since 4.30am so I'm not firing on all cylinders right now..and I'm afraid I'm not sure what you mean with that.

I'm all for any collective having a leader/elder or someone in authority you can go to with questions or for counsel, if that helps.

Re: All Encompassing Are You Religious and Why Thread
 

None of the options really fit my beliefs,although Agnostic fits most closely,

Put simply I do believe that something created us, the world around us and any and all Universes (depending on how many you believe there are).

However, I do NOT believe in an all-seeing, all-knowing God. I do not believe that this being (I use the word "being" for convenience, because I don't necessarily believe that what created us is what we'd define as a "being") still exists.

Re: All Encompassing Are You Religious and Why Thread
 

I put Atheist

I however yet to see proof archalogically of existence yes lots of land to dig up be we found further back yet this gap never been uneathered to prove jesus or any other things exist. Would thought something would come up big paraded by the church see we was not lieing.

Why has the church buried the work of frenchman Jean-François Champollion who had extensive knowledge of coptic ancient hieroglyphics one few to translate some of the roseta stones secrets. I believe the vatican got his work all hidden under lock and key whats there to hide. there should be total openess.

http://www.wired.com/thisdayintech/t...s-champollion/

Who spent years documenting the works of the egyptians which ultimately cost him his life. Work which could either disprove or prove many things the church teachings due to there very good documenting there period.

I have grown to become very sceptic at what I was told to believe. I find it hard to understand why god would allow the misery and pain on good people. If there a heaven god nows where as sure hell feels this earth feels like hell its full greed and misery. Maybe hell and heaven within not somewhere higher. People can cross from hell to heaven in blink. For all I know god and satan play chess together we minions are the chess pieces and fate is manipulated by either they have laugh at our expense. Society is either black or white in there inner soul you either gods pawn or Evils to try play.

I lost faith years ago was first C & E but then went to catholic school became catholic but never was convinced priests knew really.

I know might upset some its just my strange belief way come to distrust anything I am told. Until it slaps me in the face maybe god or satin will for my posting. Will know in next few days if upset almighty;)


The other what would happen to the world if the whole thing came out as one big sham hoax. There alot people who put big faith in gods existence. Many countries deeply catholic. If it ever was disproved would it unstable the world. There lies we all need hope someway we all have our faiths/beliefs but all could be true or false. I always thought of re-incarnation some dead is dead others in heaven. Even the thought parallel universe you simply when dead reborn into new planet. We all have hidden beliefs on endgame. Maybe its part process to that wether you AThiest, thiest or agnostic.

Re: All Encompassing Are You Religious and Why Thread
 

A bit difficult to understand but you're saying there has yet to be archaeological proof that any things exist?!

What about this laptop I am using right now?! Isn't the long-since-thrown-out box it came in proof that it exists?

You're going to have a tough time selling that one to...er....anyone.

Re: All Encompassing Are You Religious and Why Thread
 

laptop physical thing bought not been dug up years beyond its time.

Maybe if we jump 1000 years into future someone says we used to use a laptop many years back. I would not believe untill some scientist dug it up in a dig proved the existence by showing me a laptop.

Its my way unless proof my faith firmly locked in neutral. I accept others will keep there faith in a god or even move towards god as new believer. I would never try change theres its the right.

I am open minded not closed to the concept but it has to come from the top. If god smites me then maybe he spoken.

Re: All Encompassing Are You Religious and Why Thread
 

You could probably show me photos, videos, an old magazine, or one in a museum.

just no drawings, ok?

Re: All Encompassing Are You Religious and Why Thread
 

You seem to be agreeing that there's no evidence that anything ever existed :erm:

Re: All Encompassing Are You Religious and Why Thread
 

I don't know how far in the future you're thinking?

I can't agree that there's no evidence that anything ever existed. I can if the only evidence is a drawing or hearsay.

Re: All Encompassing Are You Religious and Why Thread
 

I prefer the word entity to being.. but I agree with what you said :clap: