Re: Over 60s Should Be Encouraged To Downsize
 

[QUOTE=Ignitionnet;35323702](snip) I'm in the evil top 5% in terms of income, though oddly bottom 20% of assets due to the whole generational thing.

don't worry by the time you retire you'll have bucket loads of "assets" and bugger all income just like those pesky boomers ;)

Re: Over 60s Should Be Encouraged To Downsize
 

No, but I expect to at very least have been able to start on the ladder acquiring them. The major casualty is of course social mobility, those born into relative, although not absolute, wealth are ok. If you aren't and merely have your own work to rely on rather than your parents you've no chance.

Doesn't leave a hell of a lot of time to raise a family when average person without parents with money can't get stable housing until they're 37. It's an absolute unmitigated disaster.

Re: Over 60s Should Be Encouraged To Downsize
 

I couldn't disagree more strongly.

OK, I've got 8years on you, however my wife (who only has 2years on you) and I are probably in the top 5% and have a very nice detached farm house in the country.

Both have done this without any financial assistance from any family member, in fact it is us that do the assisting.

The wife has progressed in a major national company from secretery to Managing Director in 14years.

I'm not as prolific, but am doing quite well too.

This is not from being entrepeneurs (spelling?) this is just through working well in a career.

It's all too easy to blame "social mobility". Oppotunities are there.

I appreciate that getting a foot up in London is difficult, answer, leave London. The centre of the universe it isn't.

Re: Over 60s Should Be Encouraged To Downsize
 

Disagree all you want your story isn't typical just as mine isn't.

Doesn't change the numbers as a whole and it's worth mentioning that the 8 years you have on me potentially counted for an awful lot too.

I'm not specifically referring to me and I even mention that while frustrated I will of course get there in the end which is more than much of our youth is looking at now.

In short you're alright Jack, I will be alright Jack, I'm not glib about the chances my peers and those younger than me have. You and I both have exceptional careers and are both in that top 5% - what about the other 95% Pierre, because there most certainly aren't enough exceptional careers to go around.

If you read also you'll note that I am leaving London, I'm annoyed about having to but am doing it. I'll likely be just down the M62 from you in fact.

It doesn't change that most aren't as lucky as me, or you, and won't have the opportunities available to them. That is the disaster and that is the issue with social mobility.

Re: Over 60s Should Be Encouraged To Downsize
 

I agree that there are areas in this country where I would despair. There are estates and family/social situations that would take a gargantuan effort and support to get out of.

I am in no way saying that everybody has an equal chance in that respect.

And yes, in some areas there are no opportunities and little hope, but as you say our circumstances are not typical, so is that other end of the spectrum not typical.

I do take exception to that remark, however.

Luck, in my circumstances, has nothing to do with it. Work, and making the most of opportunities that are presented.

What's the famous phrase, "the harder I work the luckier I get."

Good luck with your new venture.

Re: Over 60s Should Be Encouraged To Downsize
 

With all due Pierre, the luck was having those opportunities presented in the first place. Take exception as you will - I was fortunate enough to have been born with some measure of wit then to have a grammar school locally to attend where I could properly develop that wit.

My career started off slowly then took off as I was employed by ntl via an employee I met, by chance, in an IRC channel who forwarded my CV. I wouldn't have known the job was available if not for that chance meeting.

Making the most of the opportunities is work, doesn't change that in most cases getting them in the first place probably involved some amount of fortune.

EDIT: I would also question that it's only the opposite extreme that have reason for despair. The most obvious reason to despair is stable housing - private rental is the only option for many as the average wage is less than 1/6th the average home and it's tough to build a life knowing you're only guaranteed a place to live for 6 - 12 months at a time. The spending power of the not very impressive wage that many have to look forward to is pretty pathetic too.

It's a measure of how fecked things are that full time workers have to have their income topped up by welfare just to exist - that's the reality facing many youth as even those who can get jobs are finding them minimum wage with few prospects.

My God I really was amazingly lucky once I got to my 20s...

EDIT 2: Meanwhile education is taking some vicious cuts and the NHS, whose budget is over 50% consumed by retirees, is relatively untouched and winter fuel allowance remains uplifted and non-means tested. Resources being taken from the young who we expect to pay for our healthcare etc in the future and given to the old. The young are an easy target after all, they can't vote. Appalling.

Re: Over 60s Should Be Encouraged To Downsize
 

Ignition I respect for admitting luck played a role, you wont admit that.

You were lucky that you was around in the right position for when your opportunity came up. working hard guarantees nothing, it doesnt even guarantee you will keep your job.

Also 2/3 of the population get some form of benefit claimants, thats the typical situation.

Re: Over 60s Should Be Encouraged To Downsize
 

Luck? what is luck?

I'm lucky I woke up this morning? I'm fortunate I didn't rammed down by an articulated lorry on the motorway.

You're right, why did I bother putting in any effort at all, why with my luck I could of just sat on my arse and all my wordly goods would have just come to me. Pure luck.

So everybody that has made some sort of progress through life is lucky, and those that haven't are just unlucky.................tosh.

Re: Over 60s Should Be Encouraged To Downsize
 

Thats not what I said and you know it.

But yes you are lucky that you woke up this morning. The human body is very fragile.

Your progression may have been a combination of luck and hard work but it certianly wasnt solely down to hard work.

That is one thing I cant stand, people doing well think life is so simple and all you need to do is work hard and the rewards follow, oh if only it was that simple eh.

Re: Over 60s Should Be Encouraged To Downsize
 

True, but those also people who sit there and think the world owes them a living

Re: Over 60s Should Be Encouraged To Downsize
 

It seems pretty obvious to me that doing well is mostly a combination of luck and hard work. For starters, we are all lucky to be born in the west, rather than Sub-Saharan Africa. Some of us are born with the brains that allow us to get a good education. Others aren't. Some of us have parents that value a good education and promote doing well at school. Others don't. Then again, you can have all the luck in the world and sit on your backside all day. That's unlikely to get you very far.

Re: Over 60s Should Be Encouraged To Downsize
 

As far as housing goes Labour oddly wouldn't be any better.

Here's the thoughts of the parachuted into the constituency millionaire shadow housing minister.
So that makes sense. After a housing asset and debt bubble what we need is for prices to rise some more and banks to give out ever higher mortgages. It's fine for houses to still be over 6 times average income, banks should simply lend more.

We also need more housing to be built, but again prices must not go down. I'm unsure exactly what this cretin thinks building more homes will achieve, if it doesn't lower prices it's pointless.

I would say that those comments could be taken out of context but that's exactly what the man himself said word for word. Typical Labour opportunistic, populist waffle.