Re: TUC Day of Action - 26th March
 

Maybe if that's the case you'd like to explain why it is this coalition, not Labour, that is progressively raising the personal income tax allowance, or perhaps you could explain this?

Seems to me Labour looked after themselves, perhaps with the best of intentions, by trying to get as many people on the public payroll as possible, social engineering through immigration policy and getting as many as possible into welfare via tax credits.

The right government is the one that, rather than obsessing over looking after one segment, keeps the taxes down as much as possible and allows the wealth to be created by enterprise to fund the necessary social services while at the same time trying to minimise barriers to people trying to better themselves.

I have no need to rant or rave at you Arthur, I can just calmly use facts to counter the giant chip you have on your shoulder.

EDIT: Here's a thought though, what do both the last Labour governments have in common? In their attempts to look after the 'working classes' they totally buggered up the economy leaving someone else to clean up the mess and take the flak. At least this time they didn't have the extra time that would have allowed them to splurge yet more and leave us needing the IMF again.

Re: TUC Day of Action - 26th March
 

i can see where he is coming from igi................................only if i look through them bleedin rose tinted specs of his :D

Re: TUC Day of Action - 26th March
 

I have a great way for the NHS to be more productive, make it an offence for ' silly' ailments walking into A& E to use up valuable time, for which overworks the department.

Such as l was in A & E on Monday, and the amount of people that walked in WITH families with silly ailments, l couldn't believe it.

The NHS is the pride of this country, and should be looked after with kid gloves, BUT it has to stopped the big misuse that people use it for.

Re: TUC Day of Action - 26th March
 

what were you in for arthur ...a sprained brain muscle

Re: TUC Day of Action - 26th March
 

Slight problem with that idea, Arthur.

People have different ideas of what constitutes a silly ailment. As such, any such rule might put people off who are suffering a genuine ailment.

For example, you have a pain in your chest. It feels a little like Wind. You know you can be prosecuted for going to the hospital with Wind, so what do you do? Risk prosecute, or risk finding out you are actually going through a heart attack?

A better way to make the NHS more productive is do something that my local HA attempted a few years back. They replaced a small, old, out of date hospital with a state of the art minor injuries unit with the idea that GPs would be able to book facilities to perform treatments and minor operations that their own surgeries are not equiped to perform. With the idea of stopping a lot of these patients with problems involving minor surgery going to A&E.

Unfortunately thanks, in part, to the targets put in place by the previous government for GPs, the local GPs refused to use it. Put simply they didn't have the time to use it. So, at great expense, it was refitted as a hospital.

If the GPs had been persuaded to use it, it would have saved our local NHS millions.

Re: TUC Day of Action - 26th March
 

Hi Martyh, A nasty dog bite, it was awful.

Re: TUC Day of Action - 26th March
 

The NHS is an oversized, inefficient mess and needs reform. If it were so good everyone else in the world would copy our system, outside of communist states they don't.

I don't get the nostalgia at all, our patient outcomes scream that something isn't right.

Re: TUC Day of Action - 26th March
 

arthur it was one of your sillier ideas ,it maybe that your ailment was a silly one ,you can't make it an offence to go to hospital

Re: TUC Day of Action - 26th March
 

:LOL:

You do crack me up

Re: TUC Day of Action - 26th March
 

i hope your not planning on going to the A&E for that :D

Re: TUC Day of Action - 26th March
 

Already been, They are reporting me to Arthur ;)

Re: TUC Day of Action - 26th March
 

Getting back onto topic.

On Sky News right now. 'campaigner' Simon Hardy.

It was the fault of the police for all the violence for goading protestors, smashing up a bank is a legitimate form of protest, destroying a business is not a crime etc. etc.

And he is exactly how you would expect him to look, all that's missing is a copy of the Guardian (whose owners also pay as little tax as legally possible just like HSBC, Topshop)

Apparently now the main aim of the protest movement is to bring down the government. Not to get the country out of the financial sewer it's in, just stop the evil Tories.

:mad:

Re: TUC Day of Action - 26th March
 

If this is the case my partner would now be dead as she has stomach pains and she was 6 months pregnant, They thought that it may be Braxton Hicks and it turned out to be a ruptured appendix which was going septic?
Then last week went back with stomach pains again, Turns out to be a sub-chronic hematoma under the appendix scar.

So as much as i can agree with this idea, I can not as my partner and my un-born child would be dead under this rule?

Re: TUC Day of Action - 26th March
 

Yeah "arthurmoneygrowsontrees@cloudcuckooland.net" forgets that one child's headache and minor rash is another's meningitis! Still waiting for his economic policy to get us all out of the mire pain free but I bet, if it ever comes, it'll be just as realistic...

---------- Post added at 19:53 ---------- Previous post was at 19:47 ----------

:rofl:

---------- Post added at 19:57 ---------- Previous post was at 19:53 ----------


Tell you what. I'm mightily hacked off by idiots like Simon Hardy so would he be kind enough to publish his address so anyone who disagrees with him can go round and smash his place up if they feel like it? He reckons anything goes and he won't be calling the police will he, so how about it?

Re: TUC Day of Action - 26th March
 

count me in i'll bring the big hammer :tu:

Re: TUC Day of Action - 26th March
 

I knew I could rely on you.... ;)

Re: TUC Day of Action - 26th March
 

When l said silly ailments, l mean't illnesses that can be treated at home or your GP or the after hours that GP's supply.

I was in A& E when my son was very ill and there was another young lad who came in with the same problem, severe stomach pain, we were still sitting there four hours later, an yet a guy comes in with a cut finger, and he was seen before anyone.

ANYONE, with medical problems should go to A & E.(but not a cut finger)

Re: TUC Day of Action - 26th March
 

i seem to remember one of your rants a while back was about not being able to get in to see your GP because of all the foreigners ,a rant which i kind of agreed with as i find it impossible to see my gp also so the only available solution is the A&E


i cut my finger ripping a window out ,i went to A&E with that ....you can hardly tell where they stiched it back on

Re: TUC Day of Action - 26th March
 

.... and that of course is all down to Thatcher and the ConDems isn't it? Nowt whatsover to do with Bliar and his cronies...... :rolleyes:




The right place on the correct hand presumably? :D

Re: TUC Day of Action - 26th March
 

My GP is a good one and offer after service care, and there is also a clinic at Ealing that offers medical help as well - and its not A&E

Re: TUC Day of Action - 26th March
 

i think the doctors name was Egor :dozey::)

Re: TUC Day of Action - 26th March
 

Arthur your starting to sound like telford cable !!

Rules for treatment used to be Breathing Bleeding Breaks and Burns in that order, Where did you fit in that group ???

Do you feel you were in the group ahead of bleeding ???

Re: TUC Day of Action - 26th March
 

Bleeding stupid? :D

Re: TUC Day of Action - 26th March
 

And nowadays, children get priority for assessment.

Re: TUC Day of Action - 26th March
 

Correct. Osem Jnr#2 was recently seen by the paediatric A&E in our local hospital.

Re: TUC Day of Action - 26th March
 

Things have changed a bit from when I did basic first aid. But I don't think a cut finger would get priority over a sick child ;)

Re: TUC Day of Action - 26th March
 

he said it was a dog bite so i think that counts as a cut (finger? possibly ?)

Re: TUC Day of Action - 26th March
 

No he said the Man who came in and was dealt with first had a cut finger.

Re: TUC Day of Action - 26th March
 

A cracking video that shows the Met TSG in a good light from *GASP* the Guardian.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/video/2...e-police-video

Also a few of the protestors who think being in a large mob that trashes a shop means you won't get arrested are all upset that the Police dared to arrest them.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/ma...-uncut-fortnum

:D :rofl:

Re: TUC Day of Action - 26th March
 

Good to see the police are finally tiring of these guys occupying private property for their own ridiculous purposes.

Re: TUC Day of Action - 26th March
 

Derek, how on Earth did you come to that conclusion based on that article and video?
Where were the peaceful protesters "trashing" anything?
Where did it say the protesters were annoyed that the police "dared" to arrest them?

They were annoyed that the police outright lied to them, and rightly so.
Unless I'm missing something, you've told 2 lies above, is this a professon-wide trait ?

If the police were going to arrest them, then they should have had the balls to do it in front of the bemused store customers. If I were those protesters I'd be rethinking my strategy, and next time I'd be certain not to take anything the police say for granted, as it's been clearly shown, that their word isn't worth the paper it's written on.

Re: TUC Day of Action - 26th March
 

Or perhaps they may not "occupy" the store next time, as they know they will be arrested?

Re: TUC Day of Action - 26th March
 

Troublemakers are treated like troublemakers by the Police ... must admit, I'm having difficulty seeing the problem here.

Maybe the thought that there's no exemption from the law just because you're in a crowd will help persuade a few of these muppets to stay home and climb trees on daddy's estate next time.

Re: TUC Day of Action - 26th March
 

Well I don't like it when the police think they can tell jo public whatever they please to suit themselves.
However, there is a reason why I wasn't at the anti-cuts rally, it's because I believe the cuts in the public sector are long overdue.

Governments should understand that it was a mistake to export our industry, they should be bringing more work here (including wrestling our industry back from the far east, is possible) and therefore they'd have more workers paying more tax.
I empathise with the protesters that the cuts aren't balanced, and the government isn't taking it's share of the cuts - at least I haven't seen evidence to back up their claim that "We're all in this together."
I feel the western governments should be doing more to ensure we never see a repeat of the recent financial crisis, and also to ensure those who caused it are paying their share for their mistakes. I haven't seen any evidence to suggest this is happening. Which tells me this whole episode is doomed to be repeated at some point in the future.
But for now at least, the cuts are necessary - the lies aren't.

Re: TUC Day of Action - 26th March
 

That puts you in a rather more honourable position than Ed Milliband, who knows cuts are necessary but was happy to share a platform with Trade Unionists who want us to believe they're not ...

Re: TUC Day of Action - 26th March
 

Just out of interest, were they definitely breaking the law ?

I suspect there were but if they were I don't see why the police didn't arrest them when they were in the store if they had nothing to hide?

Re: TUC Day of Action - 26th March
 

Perhaps the police thought arresting them in the store might have caused more problems than doing so outside. The police have to make decisions like that don't they.

Re: TUC Day of Action - 26th March
 

I thought that might have been the case, but I was just wondering if anyone knows for certain? I suspect there was an agreed route for the demo and any deviation would be technically illegal, but it didn't say in the article.
I also don't quite see why they were arrested when they left the building when asked to do so?

The cynic in me says they were arrested just to get their details in the system so they could be watched in future, anti-terror laws anyone?

Re: TUC Day of Action - 26th March
 

Derek can probably best answer you that, but you might want to ask him very nicely, as you were a little bit rude and generalizing about his profession earlier ;)

Personally I think it was probably done in that way to minimize the chances of a ruck developing inside the shop.

Re: TUC Day of Action - 26th March
 

Aggravated trespass - CPS

Re: TUC Day of Action - 26th March
 

:tu:

He might have to wait. Rumour has it that Derek's hired a coach and is heading down south with some of his mates to visit some protestors, intimidate a few folks and smash some windows. Nothing 'illegal' you understand though..... :D

Re: TUC Day of Action - 26th March
 

Throw the ruddy book at the idiots then charge them for police time,wages and court costs.

Re: TUC Day of Action - 26th March
 

I suspect they wanted to get the protesters out of the store before the arrests started. Much tidier than having them go postal in front of the store's customers.

These were hardly 'jo public' Sparkle.

Re: TUC Day of Action - 26th March
 

nor do the cops ,
If the cops told them they were going to be arrested when they left the shop ,do you actually think they would have left ?.personally anything the cops can throw at these two faced hypocritical idiots then the better

Re: TUC Day of Action - 26th March
 

Before.
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2011/03/1.jpeg

After.
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2011/03/6.jpg

Now in the after shot I can see some graffiti that wasn't there before and that fits in perfectly with the definition of vandalism I work with.

As for the annoyed protestor bit its the way they are moaning about it being unfair they are arrested and think that shutting down a business for daring to abide by the rules of the tax system is just a big jape.

You did miss something, mostly that a whole bunch of people broke the law and got arrested. What would you rather? That they were arrested outside with minimal fuss and damage or the Police had to chase them all through the store trying to cuff them.

They broke the law, they were dealt with. As the saying goes "If you can't do the time, don't do the crime" I'm sick of all these protestors who think they can break the law with impunity and when they are actually dealt with they bleat and moan about Police brutality, lies, impoliteness etc. etc.

Re: TUC Day of Action - 26th March
 

Excellent post :tu:

Re: TUC Day of Action - 26th March
 

Strange how the Guardian Media Group aren't on the protestors poster, even though they follow the same tax-avoidance tactics as the other companies......

Re: TUC Day of Action - 26th March
 

Yes, odd that isn't it?? Their offices weren't attacked either... :confused: :rolleyes:

Also, I wonder how many of the protestors, their families and even their unions avoid tax in some small (or not so small way) and don't think twice about it. That's OK though I suppose........

Re: TUC Day of Action - 26th March
 

You appear to be conflating what is going on outside the store, and what is going on inside. Those protesters on the roof are anarchists, and weren't actually arrested as far as I can see. It clearly states in the article that customers in the store weren't affected and continued their business as usual. Additionally, the protestors left the store when asked to do so.
It doesn't get that much better for the police does it?
I bet the reason they were arrested wasn't simply to harrass the protesters and put their details on the system, but to make it look as though the police were out actually arresting the anarchists.
So lets see, 150 peaceful protesters were arrested in this incident.
And, in total 201 demonstrators were arrested during the entire protest ! So, had it not been for this incident to inflate the police arrest figures, they'd look pretty incumbent to have only arrested 51 people despite all the damage that was done on the day.
I think this incident had more to do with their arrest "figures", than any "threat" posed by the peaceful sit in demonstrators.

Now, during the entire March 26th London protest 149 people were charged with an offense.

A staggering 138 of them relate to the sit in protest.

You mean to tell me that out of that entire demo (disregarding the peaceful shop protest), with all the damage, shops smashed, fireworks thrown, ammonia light bulbs and flares, and other objects thrown, that the police only managed to charge 11 people with an offense? Yea that would be embarrasing for them, so I can see why they decided to conduct their "mass arrest". 201 protesters arrested sounds a lot better than 11.

They ain't foolin' me though.

Now, until I see evidence that those vandals outside the store were the ones arrested, then I see no reason to believe that they were.
They seemed fairly peaceful to me, the anarchists outside are the ones who don't look too peaceful.


Ah, so two wrongs make a right. If someone is accused of breaking the law, its okay for the police to make up whatever lies that suit? What happened to the days when the police were honest, respectful human beings?
I've also been lied to by the plod (personally) on more than one occasion, and quite frankly I'm sick of their bullsh*t. They are paid to do a job, and telling a convenient pack of lies is no excuse just because it might make their job that bit easier.

In fact, sometimes in my work telling a few lies would save me a bit of work. I still wouldn't do it though.

---------- Post added at 09:04 ---------- Previous post was at 08:59 ----------

Let me just be clear, if the police were equal in their enforcement of the law I wouldn't have a problem with the mass arrest. I just don't see why they went out of their way to deceive a group of peaceful protesters who weren't bothering anyone from what I see, and yet those yobs who caused hundreds of thousands worth of damage weren't arrested.
I have a problem when I see the police not doing the job they're paid to do, and then going after what appear to be the easy targets.

Re: TUC Day of Action - 26th March
 

If those "easy targets" were committing a crime (aggravated trespass), what is the issue?

btw, re your comment Independent

Re: TUC Day of Action - 26th March
 

My main issue is that, in my ever so humble opinion, the aggravated trespass was just an excuse to arrest them. Rather than arresting those who were causing genuine criminal damage.

Interesting article.
I do have a few comments. Given that the protest was against Fortnum & Mason, I wouldn't trust them as an unbiased source. However, I don't doubt some wine bottles might have been taken. Afterall, anyone, including thieves, could enter the store - but I don't see any reason to tar 138 people with the same brush.

Re: TUC Day of Action - 26th March
 

Aggravated trespass isn't an 'excuse' - it's an arrestable offence. That's a bit like saying the speed limit is just an excuse for issuing fines.

Re: TUC Day of Action - 26th March
 

I can appropriately relate to that analogy (in the context of the Fortnum & Mason mass arrest) if we're talking about issuing speeding fines on the Indy 500 race circuit (10 mph speed limit), and then only issuing fines to cylists whilst ignoring the speeding race cars.

Re: TUC Day of Action - 26th March
 

Re your analogy, that is why they only arrested the trespassers, and not the customers - some were supposed to be there (the customers/speeding race cars) and some weren't (the trespassers/cyclists)....

(and there isn't a speed limit on the Indy 500 circuits, except on non-race days.......:D)

Re: TUC Day of Action - 26th March
 

In my extension to your analogy, there were no trespassers on the race circuit. I meant they were all racing together in the same circuit, but with the same 10 mph limit imposed and instead of issuing tickets without vehicular bias, decide to go after the cyclists since they are easier to catch.

In the context of your (unintended) interpretation of my analogy and in the context of the Fortnum and Mason mass arrest, you must be implying that the hundreds of vandals who went on a rampage through the streets of London are customers/non-trespassers ?

---------- Post added at 10:48 ---------- Previous post was at 10:44 ----------

I do however agree that such obviious favouritism wouldn't be seen on the Indy 500 speedway, as such complacency is difficult to find outside of the public sector :D

Re: TUC Day of Action - 26th March
 

It seems I'm not alone with this point of view.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/ma...rests-protests

Re: TUC Day of Action - 26th March
 

Criminal defence lawyers lecturing the police on morality... :dozey:

I think he would find the motivation was in order to deal with people committing a criminal offence and keeping the peace.

I would imagine most of the arrests during the event were peaceful as the hardcore hooligan element would have resisted arrest far more forcibly. They will be the ones picked up in the coming weeks once the CCTV and FIT footage has been looked through and people identified.

Re: TUC Day of Action - 26th March
 

Re: TUC Day of Action - 26th March
 

I wonder if the UKUncut protesters will be picketing David Milliband's houses/offices?

Telegraph I expect the £75k he gets as non-executive vice-chairman Sunderland Football Club would be taxed at 20% as well....

Re: TUC Day of Action - 26th March
 

Let's hope so eh? It might focus his mind on all the hypocrisy. He and his brother avoided IHT on their Marxist father's rather large estate IIRC too. Nothing illegal of course but then companies avoiding tax isn't illegal either but you really wouldn't think that when you hear them speak.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...icle484468.ece