Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

... and all because Gordon Brown spent a decade spending money we never really had, Arthur.

Every man and his wife knew there would be severe difficulties this year. Your prediction is about as useful as me predicting the sun will come up tomorrow. Labour would have had us in the same position - if not worse - had it clawed its way back into power last year.

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

Just to repeat myself this isn't a communist state Arthur, we don't live in North Korea and the government is not there to ensure 100% employment.

The benefit system was in dire need of reform, the education system is a mess, ignoring record A-Level / GCSE results literacy and numeracy standards are a disgrace, and the position of the armed forces is debatable given their lower involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan.

This is the legacy of throwing record amounts of money at things.

---------- Post added at 16:49 ---------- Previous post was at 16:48 ----------

Chances are they'd have done exactly what they did previously - the BoE would have engaged in a programme of 'Quantitative Easing' but rather than its advertised purpose of pumping money into the economy it would have done what was done with most of it before, purchase government debt.

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

the welfare system has had many reforms in 8 years by the way. :)

it seems it keeps been reformed until it gets the results they want which I assume is less payouts. IB alone has had 3 reforms.

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

Rather shows how effective the previous government was with these 'many' reforms doesn't it?

IB needs it, that or we've the sickest population in the developed world which we can't given apparently we've the best health service in the universe.

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

Unfortunately, what's good for the voters isn't always what it appears to be. The last government spent a lot of money bringing unemployment down without raising taxes (much). Something we are paying the price for now.

It's also worth noting that *had* it carried on, the country would be likely to be in much the same position Ireland is, and be suffering much worse cuts as a result.
There may well be trouble, but that does not alter the FACT that while the current tory/lib dem government is making heavy cuts (no one here has said otherwise), the reason they are making the cuts is the actions of the previous government..


:Yikes: A blind person driving? :D
A job is, unfortunately, not a right. It may be a necessity, but no one is automatically entitled to a job.

Personally, I can see both sides of the argument. The system does need reform. After all, we do have entire estates (and it is predominantly those who live on estates) where large groups of residents spend their entire lives on benefits. In some cases, you can go back three or four generations before you find a family member with a job. These people are costing the hardworking tax payer millions each year. Why should they be given free money when I have to work hard to earn mine?

The flipside is that any attempt to reform the benefits system ultimately impacts those who do geniunly need the money, those who genuinely can't work.

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

It must be true he read it in the Mail and/or Sun.

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

Taking it back to the levels of spending of about 2006 when the dead were unburied in the street, roving gangs of cannibals kidnapped children to eat them and you couldn't walk near tall buildings for all the people jumping off them. :dozey:

It is a very simple choice. You can either pay more for the services and have the state provide everything for you or you can take some personal responsibility for yourself and your actions.

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

You're going to turn down the opportunity of claiming £19 or £50 a week?

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

Here is another example of the terrible things that the Coalition are doing to the NHS - Spectator

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

Dave knows what he's doing. he's getting good advice.

[img]Download Failed (1)[/img]

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

What!!! So you mean, contrary to Arthur's many rants, they haven't just been slashing and burning everything we hold dear just for the hell of it?? :confused: :rolleyes:

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

Ah someone loves me. As l am taller Mr C is looking up to me for advice.

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

Impressive, Arthur - you never mentioned you were six foot two....

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

he would have been 6'3" but thatcher took the milk away so it stunted his growth :D

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

Ah, that explains his bitterness......:D

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

:rofl::rofl:

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

Yet Another Stealth Tax!!!!!!!!!!:D:erm:

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

our health system is far from the best, dont know whos making those claims.

Factor in that uk workers also work the longest hours in the developed world.

this chart isnt up to date I think 8 years old but it shows how far behind the UK has been.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/he...ing-per-person

later data, we grown but still behind with developed countries.

http://www.visualeconomics.com/healt...ld_2010-03-01/

add to that the massively reduced spending before 1997 and you might have an answer to the general health of the population.

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

We all know there's vast waste in the NHS whether it be due to the proliferation of management and red tape, the realities of PFI, over reliance on agency staff or the purchasing of IT systems, equipment etc. I see nothing wrong with making savings if the end result is that we get a leaner/fitter NHS (pardon the pun). If those in the 'know' spend more time highlighting real waste in the system than spreading doom and gloom about the possibility front line cuts then we've a much better chance of saving some money and getting the right outcome. IIRC Gerry Robinson did a pretty good job of highlighting many of the things wrong with the NHS - perhaps that'd be a good start.

---------- Post added at 09:15 ---------- Previous post was at 09:06 ----------

:rofl:

Even so, that means Thatcher only 'cut' Arthur by 0.013333% so not too drastic then. :D

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

OECD stats disagree with that proposition.
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2011/02/15.jpg

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

We don't work close to the longest hours in the developed world.

I thought our health system must be the best given we're the only ones who do it this way, everyone employed by the government, free at point of delivery and funded progressively from general taxation.

I mean people talk about the beloved NHS and how it must not be changed, I thought they would be doing so because it's so good, surely?

If you are concerned about NHS funding the obvious solution is to advocate a change in its funding method from the current progressive system to a social insurance based system in common with everywhere else.

The downside to this is, of course, that it means more people paying more for their healthcare and would ruin arguments over progressiveness of taxation when general taxation is no longer funding healthcare. The upside obviously is that it gives the NHS wider access to funding and allows for the 'risk' involved in insuring the health of the population to be effectively spread more rather than having the costs largely borne by those who not only make less use of it but also pay tax on employer provided healthcare schemes, thus paying for reducing load on the health service further.

In summary if you want the NHS funded better write to your MP asking them why we have health care provided and funded as it was in communist eastern Europe rather than the social insurance found universally elsewhere.

Re: Cameron and Clegg worse than Thatcher.
 

So you want the government to guarantee your job, your wife's welfare and abolish inflation.

In short you want government to totally insulate you from the real world.

Yep, North Korea does seem more suited than the UK.

I alluded to this earlier so I'll ask directly - Mr Arthurgray50@blu is there any reason why you haven't developed your career more and increased your income, along with this also ensuring greater job security through being harder to replace?

You are extremely good at complaining about your lot in life, I'd love to know what you've done to improve it? This is the part that seems to be absent here. Plenty of 'What about me' however you're soon to retire having made no provision at all for your retirement, we will be paying your pension and topping it up through means tested benefits, and due to your historical income your actual net contribution towards your pension in the past is debatable given you have been a consumer of both welfare and public services.

Putting it another way I draw pretty much nothing from society, paid £30k in direct tax last year and just got a bill saying I underpaid by £2k, due to them forgetting to charge me 40% for the privilege of using the NHS less by having employer provided health insurance - reading your incessant complaining is getting pretty old, especially given how much worse off you would have been in most other places either through receiving less welfare or paying more in social insurances.

Your generation lived well, spent freely, mine and Generation Y will be picking up the tab as yours failed to put away the necessary cash and continue, through weight of numbers at the ballot box, to ensure wealth transfer from us to you.

I politely suggest, again, that you read The Pinch: How the Baby Boomers Took Their Children's Future - And How They Can Give it Back - it may give you a better sense of perspective next time you want to complain about not getting what you think you're entitled to. It gives me a nice sense of perspective as it reminds me of the legacy I don't want to leave my daughter and makes it slightly more palatable paying the higher taxes and receiving less services in the hope that my generation do it right and leave the generations after with something more than overpriced housing and big social bills.