Re: sky movies (excess profits)
 

Can i just say that the competition commission on their working papers have said on their working papers that SKY have had the most out of investing in the first part of all their sports and movies. So I am waiting until April ( unless they need more info on this ) to see what they have to say on the matter and what will be?

Re: sky movies (excess profits)
 

Yes, it's best to wait and see what the CC say.

But I agree with the earlier poster, Sky certainly do make use of their movies OD rights (be that by pull or push VOD) although I accept no one else currently have access.

We'll see.

Re: sky movies (excess profits)
 

Not sure it had anything to do with Sky. HBO On Demand is still available on BT Vision and they continue to add new shows to the service including The Pacific and, from next year, Broadwalk Empire - http://www.btvision.bt.com/tv/the-be...-on-vision-tv/

Re: sky movies (excess profits)
 

My understanding is there are no plans whatsoever to remove HBO content from BT Vision, on the contrary as you highlight.

It was just a myth being bandied around that it was getting removed when VM had it removed so perhaps it wasn't at Sky's orders we lost it. It wouldn't appear Sky have HBO OD content exclusively anyway.

Re: sky movies (excess profits)
 

This was my point exactly , Sky do use VOD to deliver there movies as to the unfair practice that's for the powers to be to decide. In my experience Sky get blamed for everything on here , I don't like some of their practices but they cant be blamed for all VM problems.

Re: sky movies (excess profits)
 

Who knows but it seems strange that when SKY signed the contract with HBO the contract ended with VM?

Re: sky movies (excess profits)
 

Of course Sky use their movies OD content as you well know as I do and it is nonsense for anyone to suggest otherwise. I am glad the HBO issue was raised, I didn't dare to but I thought it was a load of nonsense that people said HBO content was removed from VM because of Sky Atlantic launching as I knew it wasn't getting removed form BT Vision, their HBO content is getting better if anything.

Sounds good though dosen't it, another good guy, bad guy issue. Maybe some HBO content wil return to VM with Sky's VOD content, you never know.

Nevertheless I welcome any investigation into Sky's pricing, they do charge a bit too much for movies in my opinion.

Re: sky movies (excess profits)
 

Nothing to do with it.


VM had a deal for VOD with HBO which came to an end.


VM had already shown all the top HBO content from VOD and decided not to renew.


Maybe they spent the money getting the US boxsets instead.


If Virgin want to they can sign another deal with HBO as Sky only have exclusive access to new HBO shows and not VOD.

Re: sky movies (excess profits)
 

Thank you and glad for the clarification about this.

Re: sky movies (excess profits)
 

Fraid not, Sky have a deal for HBO VOD for themselves only.

The deal they did with Virgin is for Sky content made by Sky plus other stuff Virgin already had being available but maybe not supplied like the Living content.

Re: sky movies (excess profits)
 

That's much as I thought but there were a fair few people assuming it was down to Sky which of course it couldn't have been.

Re: sky movies (excess profits)
 

The deal in its simplest terms was as follows.


£150 Million (reportedly) 5 years deal

All new commissioned shows and series will be broadcast first on Sky channels in high definition

access to HBO's archive for VOD use



Thats it.............

Re: sky movies (excess profits)
 

Your first point - off course Sky will price out other providers that don't have enough subs to cover the costs. I don't get how it would be in anyones interest if a company that doesn't have enough subs takes on the rights. Then the company (Sky in this case) that does have the subscribers loses out.

So basically what is it that I don't get? That Sky is bad by default? Or that your argument actually implies that anyone but Sky would be better off with the rights even though it is Sky that has the viewers to consume these movies? So basically Sky, who caters to the most pay tv consumers in this country, isn't the best place for these rights?

As for your second point - Sky offer VOD for movies.

As for your third point - they have VOD rights and provide VOD to their customers. Their subscribers enjoy the service. Can't see how that could be bad.

Re: sky movies (excess profits)
 

But you are missing the point that Ofcom are making - they tie up VOD rights for Movies from the six major studios, and then do not release them on the VOD platform (only a percentage of them).

They do this to be, in Ofcom's view, anti-competitive - they buy up the rights not to show the films on VOD, but to stop others doing so.

Re: sky movies (excess profits)
 

I do understand that point. I made the point in an earlier post that VOD viewing is likely to become more mainstream with a number of big organisations wishing to make the move into VOD for these movies.

As it becomes more mainstream the VOD rights become more lucrative and Sky have more competition. So either Sky make some money from this or they get beaten to the rights by someone who can make money from them.

But either way competitive forces eventually prevail. Thats how the market should work and not through meddling by Ofcom.

Re: sky movies (excess profits)
 

Except that Sky have it tied up for years yet and always negotiate on the basis of linear and VOD as a package.

Unless there is intervention forcing the freeing up of VOD so internet streaming is opened up no-one will get a look in unless they spend mega bucks.

Going mainstream requires intervention or it just won't happen as the movie studios are happy with things the way they are in this country with the money they are getting from Sky.

Re: sky movies (excess profits)
 

All there new movies are put on anytime , they were always waiting for me on Friday morning.

Re: sky movies (excess profits)
 

If you believe there is a proper market in pay tv in the uk in the first place,i for instance cannot get sky,thousands csannot get VM possibly millions,BT vision will not work where i live as ADSL only delivers a max of 2MB,some might call ofcom a meddler but to me ofcom are trying to even the situation out to try and benefit the person whose often least thought about whilst sky et al slog it out,yes thats right the consumer what a novel thought.:)

The "market" such as it is cannot work when you have one ultra dominent player with the financial clout to overpay or at least outbid most others due to its sheer financial clout as is the case here.

Re: sky movies (excess profits)
 

That service was shut down and all customers moved to ntl - the configurations which allowed it, VPDN / LAC, were removed from the CMTS.

Are you sure about this?

---------- Post added at 21:50 ---------- Previous post was at 21:45 ----------

I'm looking forward to seeing Ofcom's response to my MP.

They have been firmly up cable's backside since their conception having been headed up by someone who recently departed from a cable company. It will be interesting to see how they equate KT having SMP within Hull only with assessing VM's market share nationwide rather than in their passed areas thus allowing them to pretend they don't have SMP.

Re: sky movies (excess profits)
 

But there are over 500 movie titles available on Sky Anytime+ right now, I don't suppose they can provide access to every single movie they hold the rights to at any one time.

Filmflex only has around 500 titles available at any one time dosen't it?, I guess the big difference is Sky provide hundred's as part of your subscription but it isn't a PPV service.

Take a look, I'd say there are quite a few on offer:-

http://www.sky.com/shop/tv/anytime-p...l-movies-list/

Re: sky movies (excess profits)
 

Hope the OFCOM ruling gets better results than the sky sports fiasco. Were all better off after that , wholesale price but we still pay 22.50 when it was 20.50 fat lot of good OFCOM did.

Re: sky movies (excess profits)
 

He was moved over completely around 2 years ago as he no longer pays AOL for his service and all Customer Service and Technical Support queries come through to Virginmedia.

Migration details can be found in this link. http://www.virginmedia.com/customers...ation-faqs.php

Re: sky movies (excess profits)
 

:D:D:D

Although the OFCOM remedy did get sky sports 1/2 on BT vision and top up tv for those who could not get it previously, and in the case of top up tv without a 12 month fixed contract,also it gave vm access to sky sports HD 1/2 for the first time so consumers did get some success there. Without the OFCOM ruling would sky have given these?,and vm has also managed to reduce the price it charges for sky sports on the lower packages.:)

But sky itself did put the price up so vm had to from £20.50-£22.50.

Re: sky movies (excess profits)
 

The argument that VOD won't go mainstream because of Sky assumes that Sky won't be the force that takes the VOD service mainstream. However Sky does have the capability to further expand its current VOD service so I wouldn't think intervention would actually be necessary at this stage.

The market I'm referring to is the supplier market and not the consumer market.

As for the consumer market, the market doesn't have to be perfect to be competitive. There are many markets that are competitive which include consumers that do not have access to every product. But that is besides the point as no one VOD provider could provide its services to every household in the UK anyway.

Re: sky movies (excess profits)
 

Hi yes thats fair enough i can see where you are coming from and i would agree that no one supplier could provide VOD services to every houshold.

The only tnhing i would add as a consumer is this, if i watched a lot of VOD films for instance and ofcom balanced the system for example, with lovefilm it is rumoured vm might tie up for a TiVo VOD streaming deal via a sub,if one dominent supplier is hoovering up a lot of exclusive VOD rights it gives me as a consumer less ways in which to view content and is therefore restrctive in itself plus it could help to keep prices artificaially high,ofcom is charged with looking after the consumer wether it does properly is down to peoples point of view,i do notice however you seem to dislike ofcom.

Re: sky movies (excess profits)
 

There hasn't been a reduction yet as the savings are going in to a escru account.

Any savings given from Virgin Media or BT Vision are from their own reduced profit margins. They still have to pay the previous price.

Sky have challenged the decision and are awaiting a court ruling

Re: sky movies (excess profits)
 

I don't dislike Ofcom as such but sometimes they do a good job and other times they just try to interfere to make work for themselves.

In the case of VOD it begs the question why they have been reactive rather than proactive? They have just been an example of an organisation who sat around doing nothing about VOD rights for movies until they realised 'hey this could actually take off, time to get on Sky's back again'.

The issue of competition is complex. On a pay tv level it is not so complex because we look at Sky subs vs VM subs and VM are actually a major player. But then scratch beneath the surface and Sky premium appears. On the one hand Sky have a lot of premium content but on the other hand who else can actually pay for it? In this case surely its better for Sky to run Sky Movies and Sports because the consumer can pay for the one sub for each and is probably better off than having to pay premium subs to a number of channels who can only afford a small chunk of movies and sports. But then the argument becomes that even if it is cheaper for the consumer under how Sky currently work it actually reduces choice as we can't 'pick and mix' which part of the premium service we want. And then this argument is now carrying on to a level below linear which is VOD. The question really comes down to is it wrong for Sky to actually tie up linear and VOD rights (and IMO they do provide the service too for VOD)? Some would say it is the natural progression from linear to VOD and others hold your view.

Your point about Lovefilm is exactly what it comes down to in the long run. The question is whether Sky can develop a VOD service that is standalone or will they just hide their VOD among their linear programming. But they will need to make money from it somehow so someone will have to pay for it.

Re: sky movies (excess profits)
 

I am not for one moment saying the likes of LoveFilm will not be available to UK Tivo customers. Not at all.

However I would draw your attention to the US Cable Operators who supply their own Tivo kit, like VM. Only one operator offers such a service (Blockbuster), they may even be part of the same group I don't know but every single other operator currently relies on their own On Demand film offer.

The likes of NetFlix, Amazon and Blockbuster are only widely available to consumers who use their Tivo box as a third party receiver which of course is allowed in the US, but subsequently they currently lose access to their cable operators own On Demand services.

But I cannot help but think already providing a service like Filmflex dosen't sit particularly well with the likes of LoveFilm. It dosen't seem to in the US anyway. I have read Cindy Rose's comments on the subject but it does seem an odd mix to me personally, just my opinion though.

We'll see.

Re: sky movies (excess profits)
 

Did u mean escrow LOL :D

Re: sky movies (excess profits)
 

I did lol :o:

:D

Re: sky movies (excess profits)
 

Anyone hoping for a miracle here , I wouldn't hold your breath if the Murdoch Sky takeover is anything to go by absolute joke of a decision.

---------- Post added at 22:10 ---------- Previous post was at 21:45 ----------

[QUOTE=mersey70;35185311]I am not for one moment saying the likes of LoveFilm will not be available to UK Tivo customers. Not at all.

However I would draw your attention to the US Cable Operators who supply their own Tivo kit, like VM. Only one operator offers such a service (Blockbuster), they may even be part of the same group I don't know but every single other operator currently relies on their own On Demand film offer.

The likes of NetFlix, Amazon and Blockbuster are only widely available to consumers who use their Tivo box as a third party receiver which of course is allowed in the US, but subsequently they currently lose access to their cable operators own On Demand services.

RCN don't carry netflix on there own RCN TIVO Premiere

http://www.rcn.com/dc-metro/help/cable-tv/tivo-premiere

Re: sky movies (excess profits)
 

Evening Standard yesterday stated that Ofcom approved the BSkyB takeover. Just goes to show how useless they actually are.

Re: sky movies (excess profits)
 

That of a chocolate fire-guard.

Re: sky movies (excess profits)
 

[QUOTE=muppetman11;35186391]Anyone hoping for a miracle here , I wouldn't hold your breath if the Murdoch Sky takeover is anything to go by absolute joke of a decision.[COLOR="Silver"]

It does indeed seem a bit of a shoe in. I don't have a major objection to it personally but I still would have welcomed more throrough scrutiny by the Competition Commission, I was hoping they might take a good look at content access deals and the likes.

What is quite concerning is that media commentators predicted what was going to happen ages ago, almost chapter and verse.

I wonder if anything would have been different if stupid Dr Cable handn't let his preceived power go to his head and kept his bleeding grid shut!

Probably not.

Re: sky movies (excess profits)
 

[QUOTE=mersey70;35187059][I]That's what our political manipulators want you to believe in Tory HQ, so we don't blame them, even though they are all in bed with Murdoch and Co.

Don't hand them the excuse of blaming a Liberal - they are in power!

Re: sky movies (excess profits)
 

So they drugged him and made him say it, did they?

Or perhaps it was CGI?

Re: sky movies (excess profits)
 

No of course not. OK Cable messed up, but it does not stop them doing something about this now does it?

Re: sky movies (excess profits)
 

Cameron and the Tories = Murdochs little plaything.

Re: sky movies (excess profits)
 

Fixed that for you.....:D

Re: sky movies (excess profits)
 

Correct mate just shows money talks.

Re: sky movies (excess profits)
 

This is a good read and I like the last bit of it?

http://www.competition-commission.or...ousestyled.pdf

Re: sky movies (excess profits)
 

Mmmm.....

I'm not really smart enough to understand all of the ins and outs in that document. Would a smarty pants, who fully understands the document, like to give us simpletons a dumbed down abbreviated version?

Re: sky movies (excess profits)
 

It is this last bit that is the most interesting bit:

When evaluating the
terms on which Sky wholesales its own existing movie products (SD, HD and SVOD),
we should ask whether these terms restrict the ability of its rivals to compete with Sky
in the pay TV retail market but we also need to consider the ability of Sky’s rivals to
compete more generally and so extend our focus beyond Sky’s existing products to
what products might exist and when and how they might be distributed in the
absence of barriers to the acquisition of movie rights.

As they are going to also look at what products might exist?

Re: sky movies (excess profits)
 

Good luck with the outcome of that , may just be completed in time to watch Spiderman 15 :D

Re: sky movies (excess profits)
 

Here is the timetable:

http://www.competition-commission.or...March_2011.pdf

Should be done at the latest by 3 August 2012

Re: sky movies (excess profits)
 

It'll get delayed they always do.

Re: sky movies (excess profits)
 

Not sure that it will as it says they have a statutory deadline.


The statutory deadline for our investigation is 3 August 2012, although we intend to complete
it sooner

Re: sky movies (excess profits)
 

We'll see what happens :D

Re: sky movies (excess profits)
 

Good news for consumers.

Re: sky movies (excess profits)
 

If something actually gets done it is , I reserve judgement until we know the outcome.

Re: sky movies (excess profits)
 

A very long wait indeed, look everybody knows Sky abuse their position even the competition commission so why such a long wait, by this time Sky will have bought another 4 companies and launched another 5 channels.:erm::erm:

Re: sky movies (excess profits)
 

Linkage HERE

Re: sky movies (excess profits)
 

A final ruling is due next year.
:shocked: How Long.

The commission said it was considering whether to restrict the number of Hollywood studios from which Sky currently has the exclusive rights to be the first to air their new releases.
STUPID IDEA.

It is also considering restricting the nature of Sky's rights with the Hollywood studios, such as giving its rivals the chance to offer subscription video on demand.
FAR BETTER IDEA :tu:

Re: sky movies (excess profits)
 

They really drag things out, don't they :D

Yeah, I agree the SVOD rights is the area that needs reform.

Re: sky movies (excess profits)
 

If you just limit Sky to say three studios with exclusive deals that still means customers of other companies like Lovefilm etc can't watch first run movies from Sky's three exclusive studios so in my eyes that's a silly idea. I like how it says Sky could be made to allow other movie services on its EPG , at least you then have choice.

The Guardians Take
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011...llywood-movies

Re: sky movies (excess profits)
 

Found this DF , this is Sky's views can't say I agree with too much of it but worth a read.

http://corporate.sky.com/documents/p...iew_submission

Re: sky movies (excess profits)
 

Yes a typical Sky reaction in my mind still defending themselves when everybody else knows of their market dominance in this area.

Re: sky movies (excess profits)
 

They should simply stipulate that where Sky does an exclusivity deal, it must allow other providers access to the channels showing it at a wholesale price. I don't see why the Competition Commission cannot see that this is the best solution.

And if they make it video on demand only, they should enable other providers to also show the film on their VOD, again, at a wholesale price. The same goes with exclusive drama series, etc.

Re: sky movies (excess profits)
 

They need to get rid of the whole exclusivity for movies, can you imagine in the VHS rental days if different chains had the rights to different movies? We need multiple premium movie channels that show the same films that compete on price.

Re: sky movies (excess profits)
 

Cheers.. they are bound to defend their position.. I think the CC will rule against them and open up the Movies market. SVOD is the best area for the CC to concentrate on.

---------- Post added at 22:59 ---------- Previous post was at 22:56 ----------

Yes.. the customer would benefit from that.

Re: sky movies (excess profits)
 

Can you remember when there was Sky and BSB and each had deals with three movie studios each so you couldn't see all the films on one system? That turned into a blood bath and IIRC they really went to town on spending money to get those exclusive agreements in the first place.

Re: sky movies (excess profits)
 

Not good news

http://paidcontent.co.uk/article/419...ow-until-2014/

Re: sky movies (excess profits)
 

No we could have to wait ages looking at this.

Re: sky movies (excess profits)
 

It'll give Netflix some time to start up and Amazon sometime to close Lovefilm and bring their brilliant Amazon Instant Video over here.

Re: sky movies (excess profits)
 

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/media/ne...ies-probe.html

http://www.competition-commission.or...gs_excised.pdf

http://www.competition-commission.or...le_mar2012.pdf

Re: sky movies (excess profits)
 

If there is a time to be shafting the Murdochs, this is it.

Re: sky movies (excess profits)
 

Yep they deserve everything thrown at them.

Re: sky movies (excess profits)
 

Back to title. In my opinion there is NO such thing as excess profit.
Unless you are a monopoly & in the UK water companies are the only one I can think of. As I see TV license as a TAX however its dressed up.
You don`t want to pay for SKY movies then don`t .EASY

Re: sky movies (excess profits)
 

As far as profits are concerned, I am inclined to agree when there is a free market, because if others are so good at it, they will come in and provide the competition at a lower price.

Unfortunately, that theory doesn't work with monopolies and monopolistic practices. It makes you wonder what the Competition Commission is for - they don't seem to be making much of an impression on dear old Mr Murdoch.

Re: sky movies (excess profits)
 

For all those that might be interested there is a panorama programme which should have gone out last week about "Rupert Murdochs TV Pirates".it has been held over worth keeping an eye out for, there is a thread about it on D/S.

http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1637580

Re: sky movies (excess profits)
 

Netflix boss says rival BSkyB should not have its movie channels regulated

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2012...redirect=false

Re: sky movies (excess profits)
 

That is a bit of a surprise.:erm:

Re: sky movies (excess profits)
 

What he actually says is there shouldn't be any intervention, yet.

Re: sky movies (excess profits)
 

Free market. Vote with your money

Re: sky movies (excess profits)
 

That's what the whole thread is about ;)

Free Market system requires competition in order to allow consumers to "vote with their money."
The issue at hand is "is there adequate competition to allow the free market to work?".

Re: sky movies (excess profits)
 

Maybe Sky should open up a chain of supermarkets and get exclusive rights to sell Domestos, so that it can't be bought in any other supermarket.

People would think the world had gone mad! Why is it so different for films? OFCOM should tell all the film studios, that in the UK, they are not allowed to set up exclusive rights with any one provider and must sell to all that want to buy. And if the US film studios don't like it, tough.

Re: sky movies (excess profits)
 

No read the title. Are you saying SKY is the only way to see a movie?
- really :erm:

Re: sky movies (excess profits)
 

I think the issue is that Sky have tied up all the deals with the movie studios for fisrt run movies meaning their financial muscle is such unless other people can compete consumers do not have much of a choice,the last time i looked at the Netflix website hardly any of their films were up to date.

Re: sky movies (excess profits)
 

actually i asked the question "is there adaquate competition..." not answered it

Re: sky movies (excess profits)
 

Its a free market- & I am not defending SKY , have nothing to do with them.

I repeat there are lots of ways to see a film. I guess the complaint is on TV they have it tied up. How ever I repeat view another way if you do not pay them they will stop buying. VOTE with your feet

Re: sky movies (excess profits)
 

I agree , don't forget though that Netflix's price of £6.00 would have to increase for them to show movies at a similar time to Sky , Netflix have openly said they want to work at their current price point.

Re: sky movies (excess profits)
 

Yes i think he netflix price would have to increase mate if they were to compete,although thinking about it for a moment if the hollywood studios were able to accept bids for films on a first run basis from several bidders it may actually increase the price to consumers rather then give them genuine competition.

Re: sky movies (excess profits)
 

It seems that Sky may have a reprieve?

http://www.nasdaq.com/article/uks-co...20120520-00007

Re: sky movies (excess profits)
 

Personally I'm happy with that. If I want to subscribe to a movie service I want to be able to get the newest movies all from the same provider and all under 1 subscription. I don't want the hassle of joining Netflix, Lovefilm and SKY Movies to essentially get what SKY already offers.

It's similar to when SKY lost it's strangle hold on the English Premiership. Now if you want to watch all games you need to subscribe to both SKY Sports and ESPN. In future you might have to subscribe to SKY Sports, ESPN and Al Jazeera.

Re: sky movies (excess profits)
 

Do the ofcom guys have mobile phones ;)