Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

Very disappointed, but not surprised. It's only free to all Sky customers until August 31st, so may be the exclusivity on the Sky platform ends then, too?
I'm resigned to watching the next season on Mad Men on either my laptop or waiting for 2012's box set. A shame, as the announced programming for Atlantic is right up my street. Now I'll just have to get a life instead of watching US imports every evening... :)

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

It is very disappointing but not surprising,The way things are going vm are going to have a nice new tech (over priced/tivo)but sky`s gonna control the channels/programs we watch for the next 9 years of this long term carrage deal.

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

I can't believe there is this much fuss about a TV Channel - ymmv.

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

Not really bothered about the channel myself,Its just annoying to see sky yet again showing there power and worse vm cant do a dam thing about it

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

They could have done the exact same thing and launch Virgin Atlantic (Well that's already taken but...) and put it all exclusive to Virgin customers or made it available to all platforms but instead decided it was more in their interest to sell any content devision they had.

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

If it is free, does that mean it will available on Freesat?

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

No, it will be encrypted. My understanding is it will be 'free' to all Sky customers regardless of what packs they have. A bit like XL customers get 'free' HD.

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

Looks like there are going to be 102 unlucky poll voters sky atlantic is not coming to vm .:(

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

As one of the 102, I did not expect SA to be available, but you can hope! Although the hope is wearing a bit thin with VM lately, we have been promised so much ,but so little has been delivered, Sky basics in Hd, Red Button.

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

As one of those who voted it was really for more channel choice for viewers but I'm not really bothered so could just as easily have voted "Do not care"

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

It would have been nice to have, but I'm not upset about it. I just hope Sky plays nice with the content from Bravo :)

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

What it is all customers get it free till Sept 2011 and then they will need to get the variety pack ( but you still need the HD pack to watch the HD version )

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

I bet that will be in the middle of a "blockbuster" programme too knowing Sky :D

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

Could be in the middle of a few " blockbusters". Just so that will get more people to take the variety pack:D:D

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

The variety pack is only £1 to add so you could get it in SD at least for virtually nothing, it might be worth a nicker for Atlantic alone if it appeals to you.

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

Yes it is only £1 after you have had one entertainment pack at £19.50 per month, so i can understand what you mean.

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

I wonder if at the time of the sale of the vmtv channels and the consequent closing down of Bravo and what was Virgin 1 (soon), wether the vm negotiators were relying on sky to keep supplying the content from these after agreeing a carriage deal.Rather then just hoping sky plays nice.:shocked:

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

I don't know for sure.... The thing is, this is Sky we are talking about here!

I think they see VM's TiVo as a real competitor to their service, so are relying on exclusive content.

I's expect more exclusive channels from Sky in the future, at least in HD.

Of course the plans that VM have with TiVo are amazing and Sky are going to fight with what they've got.

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

Yes pretty much agree with your post,definately it is "sky we are talking about" Yes i would take it as a given sky will be looking for more exclusive content HD or otherwise ,and to be fair to virgin the tv content is good most of the "worth having" channels are there.

It will be good for virgin when TiVo actually launches for customers sounds an amazing product that should move the tv platform on in leaps and bounds.Hopefully at last a dynamic EPG,and eventually the ability to record remotely ie via a mobile phone app,as well as all the other things i have read about it.:)

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

I know you have loyalties to your employer which of course is fine but I simply don't believe Sky are that worried about a competitor launching a set top box, it dosen't work like that. Since when has a set top box been the deciding factor for a new customer, free PVR's are the norm anyway now. Sky acknowledge it has given them something to think about though but I can see their upcoming ad campaign now. Average Joe probably couldn't care less so long as they get the channels they want and can record them. The term 'Sky Plus' is part of the language now, I doubt Tivo ever will be. It certainly isn't in the US as less than 3m are in ciruclation.

What better spoiler than Sky Atlantic to trump VM for a potential new customer? It will be content this, content that and in the current regulatory environment there is nothing VM, BT or anyone can do about it.

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

Why should virgin want to do anything the broadband is virgins trump product offering speeds at which skys eyes glaze over,i wonder though how many customers would be tempted by a channel many customers such as my parents who take vm did not even know about sky atlantic,and i am sure many people will not be that worried , sure content is a very powerful tool Virgin have it in the broadband and sky have it in the TV.

Funny though when sky wanted to launch its broadband there was something they could do about it ie get access to BT lines,seems funny how they are not so willing to share their own content though.;)

Where i live though sky tv is not an option.even if i wanted to change.

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

Sky Atlantic or TiVo? hmmmm I know what I'd go for ;)

SA is going to be a niche market. Look how many viewers some of those programmes were getting on terrestrial.

Whilst having SA would have been a welcome addition for the odd show, there is more than enough content on VM, be it VOD or linear tv channels.

Sky will make a lot of noise about it (SA) of course, like they always do :D

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

But with respect DF are you a typical Joe Bloggs TV subscriber?

Most people don't have a clue what Tivo or any hardware is, or care. All they want to do is get home from work, feed the kids and get on the sofa with the missus and watch TV, most people are not techies like many of us!

If you honestly think more people would choose a STB for a couple of hundred pounds over a free PVR and a channel showing their favourite shows then good luck to you, but I think you are wrong.

If you asked the average VM subscriber (not us on here) would they rather have Tivo or Sky Atlantic and more HD channels I bet I know what would win, and hands down.

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

Nothing typical about me, I'm unique ;) :D ... seriously though, a lot of guys (and gals!) are techie and will want TiVo, especially if they already enjoy V+HD or similar products.

TiVo is much less a niche product than SA. IMO.

The cost thing will change at some point too.

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

I would consider myself a bit of a techie as you put it ,but unless you have the content to compete with Sky what use is TiVo, and you have to balance cost against content.

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

I genuinely couldn't disagree with you more, a channel that shows, amongst other things, HBO shows is more niche than a set top box? 10 million Sky homes will have access to SA at launch, positioned right towards the top of the EPG, how many Tivo boxes are VM planning to rent out? You do know that there are less than 3 million Tivo's in circulation in the US and it is on the decline, I don't know how many homes are in the US but over 300 million people live there.

Let's agree to disagree as we are poles apart me thinks.

---------- Post added at 17:49 ---------- Previous post was at 17:48 ----------

Exactly, and that is what most people will think I am sure.

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

Couldnt agree more Virgin have worked hard and TIVO looks great but at the moment HD is still lacking heres just a few problems

1. Not enough HD Documentary channels
2. No kids HD channels at all
3. New TIVO STB to high a price when your only renting the box
4. HD On demand doesnt work after 6.00pm in my area always get We are experiencing High demand but yet you can watch the SD counterpart no problem. Been like this the last two nights.

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

What City are you in?

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

Wigan Area Code 01 I think.

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

Well like you I'm not bothered about getting Sky Atlantic for myself but can see advantages to having a tivo box so I guess we are both exeptions to your rule. :). Or at least will be when the tivo boxes are sold at a price that is to your liking.

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

Seriousley though guys im not bashing VM theyve improved loads but I just feel the time is right to now concentrate on HD and better content in general. I wish theyd chase other channels in HD rather than Sky.

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

You are fed from the same Headend as me (Preston RHE) and very rarely see issues myself for 9132.

Preston in general is a good headend for VOD and we don't have many faults. When was the last time you had an error and was it 9132 or something else?

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

[QUOTE=ahardie;35148300]Agreed mate I think TIVO looks awesome just wish it was a tad cheaper , I may very well pay for it from launch but thats me.

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

VM have a lot of balls in the air at the minute. More HD is planned ;)

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

Last two nights mate on Silent Witness HD tried other HD and that was the same , the funny thing is it let me watch Silent Witness in SD no problem. It was from about 7pm - 10 pm we tried.

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

[B][B]I would not be interested in Tivo unless it gives me access to new content, price isn't the main reason I am not too keen. Maybe things will change in the future so we will see.

---------- Post added at 18:03 ---------- Previous post was at 18:02 ----------

There are stacks and stacks of posts on DS about this issue although I have never experienced it personally.

Something to do with the servers being overloaded so some people say.

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

I'll have a look in to it tomorrow when in the office. With 9132 if you keep trying then you should eventually get it, but I know it can be frustrating when you want to watch something. :)

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

[QUOTE=mersey70;35148306][QUOTE=ahardie;35148300]Trust me the last two nights its been bad , as an experiment I tried other HD shows on catchup and they were all the same. Its a bit annoying when they advertise it has watch anytime you wish.

---------- Post added at 18:06 ---------- Previous post was at 18:05 ----------

Thanks appreciate that ;)

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

It's contention if you get 9132. Server upgrades are being done. VOD is getting more popular all the time.

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

They need to be done it may get worse once we get Sky On Demand content and possibly ESPN

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

I have never had the problem myself but it's good to hear that it's being addressed for those affected.

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

You really would have no interest in tivo? At any price point? Here is a review of it on CNET. I can see why some might not want to pay approacing £200 for it but that has got to be worth something to get a vastly improved box. For me it is the complete package that will make it worthwhile, a much bigger hard drive, a better faster box and the tivo features. If it was just one of those things I would wait for it to reduce in price but all of those things together make it worthwhile for me. I like the idea as well of being able to watch youtube content on it as there is loads of interesting stuff on there. Assuming it gives full access.

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

As i posted over on the TIVO thread could the box be able to give you full access to the web-site based players ( E.G BBC-PLAYER etc ) and not just the basic version that we seem to be getting now.

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

I think part of the problem here is that our government rushed the companies involved to introduce digital TV before HD standards were agreed.

This, I think has resulted in TV companies being a little reluctant to invest in HD equipment, having (in a lot of cases) invested in digital-ready SD equipment in the last few years.

The Americans, on the other hand, waited a little while, then went for HD. They also have the advantage that a lot of production companies are also involved in film making, so would have invested in HD equipment anyway (it can be used for film as well).

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

Don't know but I can get that content now through the i-player as my PC is connected to my TV and works a treat, I would hope for something new and exclusive to sway me to Tivo really.

---------- Post added at 18:56 ---------- Previous post was at 18:55 ----------

I thought digital TV has been around in the US years before we got it?

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

just hope Sky Atlantic hd come to virgin soon befor the year out

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

I hope they cut VAT to 5% soon too!

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

Yes but would it be better to have one box to do it all.

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

Not everyone wants to connect there computer to there tv. I haven't bothered trying that for years and I'm a bit of a geek. Probably 99% of the population wouldn't bother.

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

For a couple of hundred quid and a possible ongoing sub, not for me personally, no.

But if things change in the future content wise (and if i'm still a VM subscriber) I might change my mind. I honestly don't find it hard to find content with the V+ but that's just me.

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

Yes it is true I have never tried connect my pc to the PC as there is already too many channels showing with nothing to watch

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

So if that is the case what is the point of Tivo?

That is my main gripe, you are only going to receive what you already receive are you not?

You'll be able to record more of it though!

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

Also I have seen some where that there are only two of the three decoders activated on the new TiVo working at launch which would be a backward step if you have a V+ with three decoders.

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

What is the point of having PAY-TV as when i was growing up i had BBC1-2 and ITV, so what is the point of anything to do with multiple tv channels with nothing on.

You may be able to record more of it but i seem to spend more of my time on here:D

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

Quite, but I beleive this set top box's main claim is it will make it easier to find programmes, exactly the same programmes as you receive now. And usefully we can mark programmes we like or dislike with a thumbs up or down, I find my brain and eyes are quite useful for doing that anyway which it relies on in the first place although I suppose the ongoing recomendations might be good . I don't know about you but I have a certain group of channels that I always come back to anyway.


[/COLOR]That's right so at launch it will not provide all the recording capabilities of your trusty old V+ which I find very odd, better to wait for the third tuner to be activated in my opinion.

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

Conversely I would have thought that someone who takes the time to connect his pc to his tv and likes what he sees could see the potential of the tivo box. If they do build on the apps and make use of the 10 meg modem it could be a really good machine. If tivo and VM can build on things like that it could be well worth the extra money just for that never mind the standard tivo features that many of the original tivo users still rave about.
Having said that until we ordinary punters see the tivo in action the jury is obviously still out.
Just a few things that together should make it worth it, at least to me.
1) The 1Tb drive.
2)A dynamically updated epg far superior to what VM have now and possibly superior even to Sky's allowing full use to be made of the three tuners.
3)The usual tivo bells and whistles that the original tivo users rave about. Recording what it thinks you like could be a useful addition to catch up tv which is already one of VM's best features.
4)I believe the USA tivo has back up to pc etc.. That would be a fantastic addition. I wonder if we will be allowed this in the UK though? This might be crippled because of right issues.
5)Streaming off the internet using the dedicated 10meg connection. Also plenty of bandwidth for HD streaming.
6) Much better epg with backwards searching etc.
7) Apps allowing things like movie downloads by subscription. Would be nice but definitely one that could take time or might never appear.
There might be others I don't know about. It would be interesting to hear what other people think.

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

I think it took me 2 minutes to connect my PC to the TV, pretty easy really and I can easily do a lot of the things you highlight for the cost of a 3 metre VGA cable. Not ideal for everyone but it works for me and it cost £20 for the cable and no further subs involved too.

I agree if you find your V+ is always full then a bigger HDD would be useful.

I also agree that anybody would welcome a dynamic EPG, including some Freeview users who have that now with a cheap box and it is pretty lame that we as Pay TV subscribers have to pay around £200 or whatever it costs to get this feature.

Going back in time for catch up through the EPG is a great feature but far from unique, YouView will offer it, Talk Talk and a lesser known on demand service VeryTangyTV have offered it for ages.

Apps to allow the latest movie streaming in high quality would be nice and that might be a reason for me to get it in the future but I am not aware of any plans for this to be introduced. Our new TV has this feature, I haven't tried it though and it can be used for YouTube and other things too but I cannot comment on PQ yet but I doubt it would be as good as a dedicated Tivo app but my point is that again it isn't anything unique.

I used to have BT Vision before VM, in my opinion their STB was superior to the V+, the only area it really lacked was it only had 2 tuners but that was never a big problem for me personally as far as I recall. Dynamic EPG, great user interface, lightning fast too, smashing search options. A genuinely nice STB but that's all it was, a STB.

The reason I left is because overall for the cost it was lacking in linear content compared to VM, nice hardware, bells and whistles as you say but not as much on offer for what it was actually used for, watching TV. It couldn't find content that wasn't there but then again the box was free.

They introduced a new STB before I was leaving, I believe it was faster but functionally it was identical but most importantly it only received the same channels and content as my older box though and until this changes with Tivo I think I will stick with the V+ as I see no overwhelming reason to change.

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

My laptop is connected by a 3 metre HDMI cable to a Plasma TV and I can stream anything available in HD and takes seconds to set up.

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

Pretty much my experience too, easy. The cable cost £19.99.

Probably not for everyone but it works for me.

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

I can beat that £ 14.99 from play 18 months ago :D

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

Personally, whilst Tivo sounds like a great hardware upgrade, I'm more interested in content. Sky Atlantic is offering the majority of the best US TV series & without that I don't care how big my hard drive is because they'll be nothing of quality to record.

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

hmmm... I think saying 300 million people and only 3 million TiVo subs is using the wrong comparison! It should be how many homes have cable and then take TiVo. TiVo in the US had 4.7mil customers in 2006, but lost some market share due to some cable co's releasing a basic DVR. plus it's more expensive in the US with a higher monthly cost. The VM way is much better at a low monthly cost.

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

I think saying it is not ideal for everyone is an understatement. People just dont bother to do that. We are talking about two diferent experiences here anyway. For instance I can watch iplayer on my games machine but it is such a frustrating experience that I would only do it if desperate. By comparison the cable interface is a joy to use even on my old SA box.

The point I made was that it has the potential to be better than a Sky box where even their customers say they sometimes lose the end of programmes. Which with reduced (or non existant?) padding, when then the third tuner is enabled, should give a clear advantage over the Sky box.

Yes it is a great feature and yes you may be able to do it other boxes but you wont be able to do it on a Sky box. They will have to purchase another box from another platform. Not ideal is it? Also if it is a great feature then that is a plus to buying the new box. The fact that I will be able to do it by buying a youview box in the future or subscribing to tangytv is as meaningless to me as it will be to sky users. Sky users cant even watch iplayer yet or HD with no timeframe as to when they will be able to. When they can it will eat in to there internet bandwidth. A real problem if you aren't near the telephone exchange.

The tivo will also have smashing search options in fact I would imagine second to none. The cnet review says it is superior to both Sky and existing cable boxes.

The thing is that the tivo box has the potential to make the V+ and Sky + HD look like something from the ark. Saying you can do some of those things on other boxes isn't much of a defence any more than saying a universal remote is useless because I can use all these other remotes. It would be an even dafter argument if I had to buy all the other remotes to replace the one universal one.
One more thing just to turn your arguments on their head. People will be able to view the content on Sky Atlantic by other means both legal and not so legal. Unlike many of the things you have said it might actually offer a better viewing experience because it can be viewed dog and advert free. Is that an ideal situation? Of course not but then neither are most of the reasons you say the new box wont be worth paying some dosh for. As it happens neither of us are personally bothered about having that channel anyway. I do like the look of the new tivo box though. I just hope that VM exploit it's full potential.

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

I don't watch many US dramas but we can never have enough new channels so hope I turns up.

SD or HD, doesn't bother me.

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

Yes Sky could have sold the sd version to other platforms and still kept the HD as an exclusive. Most people would just watch in sd and they would have made a tidy profit out of customers on other platforms. Personally, like you I am not bothered about Sky Atlantic itself. It is where this is heading that bothers me. If one platform has far more cash than other platforms and is able to keep that content to themselves then where does that leave us a few years down the line? It will leave us with the same number of choices as Ford Model T owners had of colour. They could have any colour as long as it was black. We will be able to choose any platform as long as it's Sky.

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

I know, but I think you said Tivo will be less 'niche' than Sky Atlantic.

As far as I am aware Sky Atlantic will be available in 10 million homes from February. I beleive VM have less than 4 million TV customers.

I guess what I am saying is that whilst Tivo is no doubt very good it is merely a set top box, a very good set top box but thats it and I still think that the average subscriber merely wishes to receive all the channels they like, perhaps in HD, and to be able to record them and not get watered down versions of applications like red button. Until it is the de facto platform for VM it will be a niche product. I don't even know if V+ is in the majority of VM homes now but I am sure you can answer that.

---------- Post added at 11:29 ---------- Previous post was at 11:25 ----------

[/COLOR]Everything you say is no doubt true but I say it again, Tivo is merely a set top box, a piece of hardware. It isn't what drives mainstream subscriptions. Let's remember Sky (sort of) had Tivo, albeit not as good an application of it as VM's at one point and canned it in favour oif their own Sky Plus which has been quite a hit to the point 'Sky Plus' has almost entered common language but I doubt it was Tivo, or Sky Plus or any STB that made people subscribe, it was what channels were offered. If you look at the forums on DS you don't really see that many people bemoaning the fact Sky Plus only has two tuners, honestly you don't. You do see many saying they wouldn't get cable full stop because of the lack of HD channels and other features.

I cannot help but think that people are way overegging it's ability to take a decent share of Sky's customers for the reasons I have said already, I would guess a Sky customer who is maybe considering Tivo is likely to be a higher tier HD subscriber, would they give up all the extra HD channels which they pay about a tenner extra for which is about the same as having Sky HD and Tivo on VM isn't it?

BT Vision's box (in my opinion) is significantly better than V+, how many subscribers have they got? The reason for this is probably down to a number of factors but the main one for me is a lack of linear content but their on demand offer was excellent and better than VM's but that is just my own opinion, but the lack of linear content sounds familiar dosen't it and you know who will be highlighting this to the max when Tivo is launched, they did a hatchet job on BT too, and sadly it seems to have worked.

Nevertheless I am a reasonably happy VM customer with no plans to leave, certainly not for Sky anyway but I really think we should get Tivo into perspective. It is a set top box and a very good one if you really need all the bells and whistles.

I doubt average Joe does though.

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

I find much to agree in this post Mersey70. Personally I have been careful to talk about the potential it has rather than say it will have this or that killer feature. I have seen independent reviewers go overboard about the box but they haven't actually seen it working in someones home (I think digital fanatic has though). Like I say though, for me, it is the complete package that will make it worthwhile plus I am ready to try something new. People on other platforms have paid more recently to get just a box with larger hard drive.

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

Just over 25% of VM's tv subs are for at least 1 V+HD box, which is appox 1.1 million subs

Sky Atlantic is just a channel with yet more American imports, which didn't do particulary well on Terrestrial tv, never mind Pay-tv.

Maybe if VM thought it was worth fighting over, then they would have offered more to keep the On Demand rights to HBO?

VM have more than enough content to make TiVo an exciting product for customers. i don't expect a "mass exidous" from Sky to VM for it, in the same way I don't expect VM customers going to Sky for 1 channel. :)

I think that TiVo is a good product to attract new customers though and help keep churn down :

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

The more content that Sky moves/adds to this new channel, the more pressure is applied to VM etc to overpay for the channel. There would be nothing stopping Sky doing the same thing in the future.

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

I think that is the most pertinent comment you have made.

To be honest I am amazed only just over a million people have V+ so that is by far the minority of TV customers many years after it's launch. 4:1 isn't it? That suggest the vast majority of VM's customer base are lower tier subscribers, would they really be that interested in paying around £200 and a ongoing sub for Tivo when they don't even have V+?

I don't expect customers to be swayed by one channel in the case of Sky Atlantic but it will be a bigger draw than a set top box and a pretty expensive set top box, I'm convinced of that. But it isn't one channel we are talking about when a new customer compares Sky HD to VM though, is it? Far from it. Show average Joe a list of channels available and I bet most would go with the provider with the widest offering, in fact we know that to be the case and could explain why VM is only in a third of the homes passed.



---------- Post added at 12:23 ---------- Previous post was at 12:16 ----------

[/COLOR]I think the 1TB Sky Plus box is a pretty good baromoter for Tivo although I accept it is functionally the same as the standard Sky Plus HD box.

But the 1TB Sky Plus HD box is also a niche product right now, how many people really need 1TB of recording space? Not the majority of Sky customers it would appear. How many 1TB PVR's do you see for sale on the highstreet? Not many and there is probably a good reason for that.

However I wouldn't bet against the 1TB Sky Plus HD box being offered as standard, or at least heavilly discounted in the not too distant future as a spoiler. BSkyB own Amstrad so it would be a doddle to do so and they have really improved the reliability to the point they are considered superior to the Samsung and Thomson boxes.

And as DF says, only just over a million VM customers even have V+ which costs peanuts, how long has it been around for?

And you make an excellent point, hardly anyone has even tried the Tivo yet, me included. I know I will only receive the same channels as I do now though.

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

That wont be much of a spoiler though. Their new box only has one advantage over their old ones, namely the larger drive. Also i wouldn't be too happy if I had paid £300 for the box and suddenly they were giving it away. VM at least can cut the price by offering a tivo box with a smaller drive without peeing off early adopters too much. At the end of the day content aside the new VM box should be far superior to the Sky boxes. With many modern features. It will be hard for Sky to counter that. I'm not saying that will make many (or any) people change from Sky. I am just saying we should give credit were it is due.

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

I don't personally think it would be a huge draw cutting the cost of a 1TB box either simply because most people don't need it, but I could see them doing it. Most people probably record their shows and more often than not delete a lot of it. We do but I obviously cannot speak for everyone but 1TB? Like I say you don't see them for sale much on the highstreet do you? Maybe as you say they will introduce smaller HDD's but............

When we consider only around a quarter of VM's customer base even has V+, which is dirt cheap and been around for donkeys years I cannot possibly see why VM think they are going to spend a couple of hundred pounds on Tivo.
Maybe they don't, as DF says maybe it's a way to tie in higher tier subscribers and avoid churn.

Almost 3/4 of VM's customer base clearly don't require ANY recording facilities, let alone a 1TB box which isn't surprising to me personally given the excellent on demand catch up service which in a way seems to be a shot in Tivo's foot to me.

Maybe the V HD box with Tivo will be the real draw, who knows.

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

The TiVo box should be the best on the market I don't think anyone is denying that. But to release it without the three tuners operational is just plain stupid why would anyone pay for some thing that does less than what they have already.
Lets be honest the only way that Virgin can compete with sky as far as tV is concerned is VOD and I imagine that is the direction VM will go more into in the future.

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

I must say it seems a mistake to launch a box that isn't fully functional but hopefully an upgrade will follow sooner rather than later. Not 'coming soon' as we often hear.

A pay VOD service is only as good as the content offered, you can have all the technology and fibre you like but you need something compelling to broadcast. They stuck with OD for years and finally realised it was linear HD that a lot of people also wanted, and to their credit they have come on leaps and bounds now.

Let's be clear though you don't need fibre for a decent OD service, I had BT Vision on a maximum 7mb ADSL2 line and it was faultless, ok no HD streaming but it was really good. I think the free YouView services are going to be huge and offer real competition in this financial climate so long as they can get the boxes sold at a reasonable price. Of course if you cannot get a decent line speed you are snookered but a lot of people can. A Freeview HD+ box with all manner of on demand is a brilliant offer for many, and no ongoing costs unless you choose to buy content and it will offer many of the bells and whistles of Tivo too like apps and a backwards EPG. I was lucky enough to see an offline demo of it at BT in Liverpool and it looks mightly impressive.

I only really use catch up but maybe I am in the minority, however you don't see that many posts on here when OD is discussed about anything other than catch up though, do you?

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

My daughter had BT vision ,but she was not impressed as there was so little content when she had it two years ago, she is now on VM. So again we comeback to content ,content,content, that is what the average customer wants.

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

This is why VM's TiVo will do well... they have a lot of good content, On Demand and HD, plus all the little extras that TiVo brings. ;)

It's a good mix. :)

Plus have a look at the results at the top of the page... only a tiny amount *may* leave VM for Sky Atlantic. the poll speak for itself. ;)

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

Personally I found the OD content on Vision to be better than VM as it seemed to get refreshed more but of course linear content was limited to Freeview and ESPN although this has improved since I left with Sky Sports 1 and 2 being added although they have lost Channel 5 OD now.

But you are absolutely correct in my opinion. It isn't fibre, or satellite, or ADSL, or Sky Plus or even Tivo that wins susbcribers.

It is the programming that the particular person is looking for that sways them to one platform or another, and always has.

---------- Post added at 14:18 ---------- Previous post was at 14:13 ----------

Again I go back to my comments earlier, I doubt many users of this forum are typical of the average VM subscriber. There is a staggering bias at times almost to the point of hatred towards Sky, the subscriber numbers simply don't back that up. How many of those votes were placed by VM staff?

Have a look at what many people are saying on DS or indeed the VM forums, it isn't anywhere near as clear cut as that small poll you refer to.

And by your own admission DF only around a quarter of VM customers seem to require V+. A V+ box which has been around for many, many years and is WAY cheaper than Tivo. Why do you think they are going to shell out a few hundred pounds, sign a new contract and pay an additional sub when the vast majority of customers don't even seem to need V+, probably because of the excellent catch up services.

V HD with Tivo priced smartly might be a different kettle of fish to these people altogether. If 3/4 of VM's customer base currently don't require any PVR whatsoever why on earth would you think they need a 1TB PVR? I do need a PVR, I certainly don't need a 1TB PVR though.

Which goes back to what I said to you, it will be a niche product until it is the de facto platform and even then the majority of STB's will almost certainly be non PVR's unless the price drastically reduces, as will the 1TB Sky box. It simply isn't required by most people as your own V+ subscriber numbers prove.

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

I never thought that a single channel would make people switch, I certainly would not.
I do feel that VM do need to keep adding HD channels to keep there top tier customers, there are plenty of HD channels we do not have, that are nothing to do with sky and therefore should be readily available eg ESPN America this channel has been coming soon/ in negotiation for 7 months at least.
Coming soon to VM seems to be sometime in the yet to be determined future.

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

There are plenty on here who bash VM and you know that. I bet if the poll showed loads would go to Sky, then you'd say it was an indication of what will happen. ;)

I don't hate Sky, in fact I admire them in some ways. They are good at what they do. They have some underhand ways about them though. :)

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

I had the option of the V+ or the V HD box when I switched to Hd in March last year, I opted for the VHD as I do not record a lot of programming and VOD demand covers much of what I would want to see. I already owned a PVR which covers everything else. I have to say the V HD box has been excellent and for me it was the right choice, I understand that the TiVo software will eventually find its way on to my box, which will be interesting as the current epg on VM is poor.

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

I was mainly replying to mersey :)

Yeah, I know what you mean. HD is a priority for VM, but they have to find a balance with price too. They can keep adding HD, but the package price will have to rise and not everyone wants that.

Have VM announced EPSN America as "coming soon" though? It's only on forums that negotiations are talked about. VM wouldn't say anything as it could be commercially sensitive.

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

But quite a few on here only post something that shows VM in 100% positive light. Commendable at times (from those who work for the company), but doesn't really add to a balanced discussion.

Sky have very many underhand ways, but today without their content VM would not be providing a viable TV service. VM need Sky more than Sky need VM in today's market.



You've completely missed mersey70's point on the current take-up of V+ - a quarter of the current customer base take it. So why will there be a stampede to get TiVo? Have the other 3/4's of the customer base decided V+ was rubbish and TiVo will win them round?

It gives the average Joe's TV watcher nothing more that they are interested in - they wan't to turn their TV on and channels to appear (apparently as many as possible, or at least the ones that they consider to have the best content). If the content starts drying up and Sky start going exclusive (which appears to be already kicking-off again in ernest), then TiVo isn't going to sway these average Joe's.

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

I have e mailed ESPN and VM about this and so have others and I am pretty sure ,but cannot be certain as it was back in August when I wrote, that I got the information.
Information may or may not be commercially sensitive ,but VM are terrible at communicating with there customers eg Red Button and Sky basics HD, we were told 7 months ago they would be coming soon ,so far we have Sky HD1, we have had no formal update from VM to there customers as to when these services will be available if at all!

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

I have great respect for you DF but you are totally wrong. I am absolutely no bias towards any platform, read my posts which surely prove that. I genuinely couldn't care less who provides our services so long as we get the channels we want at a price that suits my family. For now that is VM.

But I note you didn't answer my questions which is fair enough being a staff member, I respect that.

So I will sum up. If 3/4 of VM customers currently have no V+, a PVR which is way cheaper than Tivo and in addition to that I would bet a lot of non V+ customers are not higher tier subscribers either so want to avoid the additional V+ charges for non XL subscribers, or just have no need for a PVR at all so have a V or V HD box instead why on earth do VM think they are going to shell out for Tivo, sign a new contract, maybe pay an additional Tivo sub and possibly have to subscribe to a higher tier of service?

I seriously doubt they will, not all because of a top notch set top box and that is all it is, a set top box. By all accounts a very nice set top box but if they don't want, or more importantly don't need a V+ now I doubt they will want, or need, Tivo either.

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

Aah, the old "free" scam, which really means that it is included in the price. ;)

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

Exactly, and it is only 'free' for a period of time I think I have read since making that post but it would only cost £1 to add to an existing subscription though, once you have paid around £20 or so for at least one pack!.

ESPN is included in XL, but it isn't free though. Of course it isn't.

BT used the ESPN trick too. Although both decent value though if you want ESPN.

All platforms play similar cards but it's easy enough to see through.

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

If you are totally unbiased Mersey70 I don't know why you always seem to be concerned when anyone criticises Sky, or saying as you have that as a VM customer you have no right to criticise Sky. For instance jumping on someone for suggesting that Sky might have a hand in the removal of ondemand packages from lower tier when Sky has form for that sort of thing.
Personally I was never worried about the situation regarding Sky until the Sky basics dipute. Before that I used to swap regularly between platforms and liked having the choice. After that I could see the way the wind was blowing and that one platform had become too powerful and that with Murdoch's political influence nobody would do anything about it.
I think us VM customers have every right to criticise Sky especially when they use there far greater content buying power to try and force people to their platform.
I also think that VM customers should criticise VM especially when they give the impression that something is coming soon and doesn't arrive. Quite honestly I have very little to criticise them for personally. They give me what I want for a reasonable price.
Sorry if this is a bit personal but I wonder if you are as unbiased as you say. I will admit I am biased against Sky for the reasons stated.

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

You are free to hold that opinion but if you read through my posts on here, DS and the VM forums on a number of subjects you may not have come to that conclusion but to be frank i'm not mindful to convince you as it is just that, an opinion.

I do think that a lot of VM customers should look a bit closer to home before slating other platforms and programme providers though as that is who you are paying your hard earned money to, but that is just my opinion.

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

Fair enough. :)
Agreed. I think we should also praise them when they make improvements though. A constant negative commentary is as unhelpful and unnecesary as making no criticism. The new tivo box being a case in point.

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

Praise as in the excellent catch up services, that they have come on leaps and bounds with HD and that as a bundle VM offers far better value than Sky could offer me. It's all there in my posts, some of which are in this very thread.

I don't believe I said Tivo will be rubbish or anything like that, all I think is that it will be a niche product if the far cheaper and established V+ is anything to go by.

But you are free to hold your opinion, but so am I.

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

I'm done... I've made my point :) :sleeping:

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

Me too, i'm done.

Great thread.

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

Spot on mate, that'll have the apologists gnashin their teeth. 7 freakin months with sod all, pathetic!

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

Are you sure about that? All I can find is

# For an incremental wholesale fee, Virgin Media will, for the first time, have the option of carrying any of Sky's basic HD channels, Sky Sports HD 1 and Sky Sports HD 2, and all Sky Movies HD channels.
# Virgin Media will also have access to red button interactive sports coverage and the opportunity to deliver selected standard definition programming over the internet.

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

Red button was always said to be early 2011. I know Richard1960 contacted the ceo's office months ago and that is what he was told. I hope for his sake it isn't delayed. :)

People who want sky Arts HD may have more cause for complaint though as it was announced as coming months ago although I dont know whether they mentioned any time frame.

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

My comment still stands we have still had no official update from VM to their customers about Red Button, Sky Arts HD!
VM are bad communicators.

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

I had an email from Cindy Rose months ago confirming VM were in talks with ESPN for ESPNA HD but no more info.

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

This is a reason why l won't go over to VM on a bigger agreement, as you don't know what they are doing and don't tell there customers anything, Without the red button its not worth changing at the moment, l will stay with Sky until VM sort themself out.

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

The last update regarding SKY Arts HD was made as part of the following press release on the 05th August 2009 relating to Comedy Central HD.

http://pressoffice.virginmedia.com/p...823&highlight=

"Virgin Media continues to expand its HD line-up with 26 channels launched so far, including E4 HD, ESPN HD, Film4 HD, Living HD, Sky Sports HD 1, Sky Sports HD 2 and a host of Sky Movies channels in HD. With further HD channels due to launch over the coming months, including Sky1 HD, Sky Arts HD and, now Comedy Central HD, Virgin Media will soon offer over 30 HD TV channels."

That was 5 months ago. Sure the release states channels are due to launch in the coming months and doesn't give a specific time scale however to me coming months means 3 or 4 months. What would have been more accurate is to suggest the channels will be coming in 2011.

If Virgin announce something, but the plans change, the decent thing to do would be to release a further announcement advising plans have changed etc... Too often we're told something will launch within a certain time frame, or something will come soon, then we're left hanging without any further updates. That's probably why this site is so popular, and the Coming Soon thread is the most read. People like to know what's happening, but the people we pay our money too aren't keeping us up to speed.

Re: Sky Atlantic on Virgin Media
 

20 July 2010 was the first time I read VM say Sky Arts HD specifically was actually coming but it could have been earlier "The addition of Sky Sports HD1 and HD2 follows Virgin Media's deal with Sky to bring its customers a wide range of new HD channels and Red Button interactive services*. The deal also adds Sky 1HD, Sky Arts HD** and Sky Movies HD channels for the very first time, which will take the total number of HD channels on Virgin Media to 30".

However it was announced with the footnote 'Timing for Sky 1HD and other Sky Basic channel launches in HD will be confirmed in due course" so to their credit they have delivered with Sky1 HD.

As far as I am aware VM have never said that Sky Sports News HD and Sky News HD were launching. Or ESPN America HD, in fact nothing other than Sky Arts HD and Red Button, they have delivered everything else that was announced. I know Bravo has closed and Channel One is going (on all platforms) and that we are not getting Atlantic but what VM got in return for the sale of VMtv the lineup now looks far more competitive to a potential new customer than it did a year ago, how competitive though remains to be seen as it's channels that sell subs not kit and always has. There are still some gaping holes which will no doubt be highlighted.

VM have done well but even so that press release was nearly 6 months ago now so let's hope it will not be too long now. I am totally convinced it will be channel additions and services like red button that will drive subscriptions.


http://pressoffice.virginmedia.com/p...279&highlight=