Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

I meant I didn't buy into the dubious 'fact' that we're in as dire a situation as the Tories were making out during the election or to justify the cuts. We seems to be worst off than some countries but better off than others, somewhere in the middle.


There NUS did let their feelings known, that's not as dramatic as smashing windows though.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

I say again, somewhere left of middle surely.... :D

There's little doubt in my mind that they've taken a pessimistic line on the state of affairs but, given the stakes, I'd say that's the sensible thing to do both economically and politically. If we're all prepared for the very worst and things don't turn out quite that badly we'll be far more likely to grin and bear it. The alternative option could cause mayhem.

Yes I've been listening to NUS reps condemn it on the radio and TV. I was really referring to all those protesters on the ground who could see what was going on and didn't seem to be too upset by it all or willing to voice their objections to their protest being hijacked in such an appalling manner.

---------- Post added at 13:11 ---------- Previous post was at 13:01 ----------

Nor me. I have views on both sides of centre and don't see why we can't enjoy the best of both instead of eduring the worst of one, then the other, in some endless pendular cycle. I really hope the coalition works and genuinely believe that it's incumbent upon those in power now to put their party allegiances aside for the greater good of the country. There'll be plenty of time for arguing political points when we've dragged UK PLC out of this mess.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Your sig strongly suggests otherwise...

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

As I've said before, my signature purely expresses my disatisfaction with much of what Labour have done as opposed to what they said they'd do prior to 1997 and how they'd do it.

Anyway, having suffered a decade of lies, spin and ineptitude at the hands of Bliar and Brown it's still more indicative of how I feel than something like

"Support the Tories, they're grrrreat!!!"

I'm in recovery now though so if this lot cock it up on a similar scale I'll be reflecting that in a brand new signature.... ;)

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

I think they are using it too reduce the size of the state dramatically. I not sure if that's what people want but it wasn't a choice presented. People voted to do what was needed, not to cut where we don't absolutely need too.

There was a chant from the protesters at the bottom of the tower directed at those who had broken in and hit the roof to tell them not to throw stuff. Although they used rather more colourful language, hence why I won't link to it. The Guardian's Live blog of the event yesterday has it embedded though.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Trouble is the jury's out on what needs to be done and one group of 'experts' contradicts another.


I'm very glad to hear that at least but I hope that if the same happens next time the law abiding protesters will waste no time letting these anarchists know their presence isn't welcomed and that destroying property and intimidating innocent people isn't acceptable.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Hrm nope I wanted to vote for a wholesale reduction in the size of the state, substantial dispersement of powers from central government towards locally elected representatives, accountability throughout with primaries, recall mechanisms and direct democracy with decisions being taken as closely as possible to those they affect and a repatriation of powers from Brussels amongst other things.

Unfortunately none of the political parties have the testicular fortitude for that so I voted for Vince Cable. ;)

---------- Post added at 17:39 ---------- Previous post was at 17:38 ----------

Interesting. Complaining about taxes in the adjacent paragraph to advocating investment in education which would require tax increases.

---------- Post added at 17:47 ---------- Previous post was at 17:39 ----------

Interesting. Strongly advocating smaller state but strongly advocating investment in discretionary education.

So if we have a smaller state wouldn't that mean that something would have to fill the gap? Such as people taking responsibility for providing the services that the government did previously perhaps. I have to admit that reducing government support for degrees which are considered not to be especially 'beneficial' to the 'taxpayer' strikes me as a step to reduce the size of government.

It's a bizarre argument. The tax payer should pay because they benefit. Some don't - why should they pay for people to take pointless degrees?

I would be just fine for support for higher education to return to its' earlier levels on five conditions.

1) The support is only applied to courses which are of value to the job market or projected skills needs. Random crap Humanities degrees aren't going to be of particular benefit in filling skills shortages, and indeed the fact that there are such skills shortages within science, maths, engineering, etc, despite record numbers of graduates is an horrific indictment of how little value there is in many of these courses.
2) The support is means tested. If mummy and daddy can pay your fees then pay your fees they will.
3) The degrees provided are of a high quality, all students required to be able to do things like write the word 'fees' without an apostrophe between the final 'e' and the 's'.
4) Bursaries for those who are intelligent enough to do the business but couldn't afford to attend without the support, everyone else can take a maintenance loan or draw on the bank of parents.
5) You drop out without good reason you become liable to repay all governmental support unless you return to study no later the 2 academic years time. The government is investing in your future which will benefit you, not investing for you to urinate it up the wall or smoke it out, as incidentally I did.

Incidentally I went to university for a year. The course was pointless, low quality crap that I had learned during first year of A Levels in the subject and I achieved good results despite doing as little work as possible before dropping out due to being bored, unrewarded, and having had enough of wasting time that could be spent making money and gaining experience dealing with lecturers who were obviously there because they couldn't hack actually working in IT. Still it was probably better than some now where students need remedial English and numeracy training due to the joke that is gaining admission to university.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

So this coalution already has its 1st riot under its belt.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Better confronting the possibility of that than doing the popular thing all the time. Shows courage and conviction if nothing else.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

probably because students where naive enough to believe in politicians election promises and have had their first taste of betrayal .

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

That's true for most students involved but it wasn't entirely an equal split between the peaceful student protesters and the militant professional May Day protesters who hijacked the event.

The woman I alluded to before (couldn't post the link as I was on my phone) was Clare Solomon, president of the University of London Student Union. And there's this:

We're talking a small minority but it's squeaky wheels that get the grease.


£9k is too much? You can't get a Ford Fiesta for that. So a decent education seems pretty good value.

A £9k debt is not much to ask when most people will earn at least £10k a year more year-on-year with a job as a result of having a degree and if they don't, they don't pay it back. Its a gamble you can't lose.

People these days want everything for nothing. I left with near-enough £9k and I don't think that was unreasonable.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Re. hours per week:

My Degree (1996-1999) was in Molecular & Cellular Biology, so comes under the "STEM" grouping which will still receive funding under the new proposals.

I worked during the holidays, but not during term times. I often had more lectures in one day than many of my friends had in one week. Full days of lectures/labs, along with coursework, essays, practical write-ups, etc. to be done outside of that. No time for a job during term.

Was Labour under Brown in favour of a graduate tax?

I know that during the leadership contest, well after the election, both Ed Miliband & Ed Balls said that they were in favour of a graduate tax, but I think the official position of the previous Government was "we're going to wait & see what the Browne Review says".

Re. the interest:

Everything I have read suggests that interest only goes up as earnings go up, & that the whole idea is to make it "fair", so that those graduates who have higher salaries pay a higher amount of interest. Also, I believe the idea is to impose some sort of "penalty" to prevent what you fear regarding very high earners paying less due to paying their loans off early.

EDIT: Here http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-11677862 I've read more on it elsewhere too but can't find it at the moment.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11732787

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

That was before reality bit.....

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

The trouble we have (I think I've said it already) is that everything they do can, does and will be blamed on the excuse that they didn't know it was this bad till they looked at the books that Labour left.

if the accounts weren't as bad as they are, we'd happily provide this and that to the poor, the needy, the dying. but as we said. Labour left the books in a right mess.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Hmm seem to remember Willetts saying on average graduates earn £100k more throughout their entire careers so it's more like £2k a year before you take the new fees and their interest rates into account. Willetts was also actually using this in justification for raising the fees IIRC! £23k worth of student debt on average to earn £100k more over a lifetime will put an awful lot of people of attending.

---------- Post added at 23:15 ---------- Previous post was at 23:13 ----------

Medical students are exempt from the increases IIRC. As for lawyers meh...

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

This is an interesting article

http://www.theengineer.co.uk/skills-...003966.article

I can remember being offered a job back in the 70's where attending a 'day release' course at the local college was a condition of employment - this support was available for apprentices to progress to technician grades as well as (up to) masters degree level courses for other staff wanting to gain professional qualifications.

In my opinion, if employers want qualified staff, this arrangement 'seemed' to fulfil the need better than the current system - and perhaps a compromise on the employees expectation of their salary while training might be a more palatable concept than running up an huge debt at university with an uncertain prospect of a job at the end?

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

on the other hand if the books were that bad we would be seeing more tax rises and nhs cuts. People here dont know what broke is like, think back to the rationing following WW2.

This government would do what they doing now regardless of conditions, but the fact they came in during a recession made it much easier for them.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

thats a fact
dated 2008 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7176032.stm
borrowed link from HUGH
http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/35121157-post251.html

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

From: http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/35121064-post248.html

;)

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

That's an average though. For example if I didn't go do Uni and became a Tube druver or copper i'd earn more than I am now. However most jobs non-IT admin jobs seem to be around £10k less. When I move up to senior and management positions i'm sure the difference will grow.

Even at 2k/year you're still going to be quids after 5 or so years.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

And he's a serial offender as well ;)

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

tbf, he wasn't protesting in public about education cuts.....;)

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

More like 12 years before you break and that's without taking the interest into account of course...

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

What / where / why / how?

Oh I see. Oops.

My grammar and punctuation seem to get progressively worse as time goes on. I'll console myself with the thought that I wasn't protesting and go and work out when I started adding an apostrophe to the possessive tense of its.

Stupid educational standards, crappy English is infectious.

On the upside I'm not allegedly educated and protesting about cuts and make a decent salary despite having that gaping hole in my punctuation and having failed abysmally at academia. :)

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

The funny thing is that you've been doing it a lot lately (twice in the euro-thread for example).

But I agree: poor spelling is infectious. I find myself having to think about stuff that was obvious a couple of years ago...

You know what they say about students: They have a lot to learn...

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

I think the next protest will be the unemployed, and they will have every right the same as we are free to do so.

Riots are not acceptable to anyone, but you will get this again, Until the coalition collapses, and it is proven what liars both parties are, they same one thing to get into power, and then do something different when they get in.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

I suppose if the ones on incapacity benefit are fit enough to riot it proves they are fit enough to work. ;)

Uh huh. And then once the coalition collapses what then? Labour come back and magic away the deficit?

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Wishful thinking.

Be glad real Conservatives aren't in charge instead of pretend ones and the Lib Dems.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

that's the problem they are all the same .
the problem is immigration.not black white,pink the country is full up no jobs,no housing no hope

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

could you please enlighten me as to what the hell immigration has got to do with university fees ,i didnt go to to uni or colledge and live the north so i will need it explaining in words of one sylababel




should be good :dozey:

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

:doh:
if you read the post you will see that i was replying to Derek

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Well without foreign students paying even more over inflated fees the cost for 'our own' students would be even higher.... ;)

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

This is how I went about it. Full Time work, Day Release to Uni for 8-10 hours of lectures and expected to do all assignments, coursework and dissertations in my own time. This took five years. Meanwhile I was earning a decent wage and bought my own house.

Result = Good job at the end with zero student debts along with several years experience over the grad scheme starters.

Whilst at Uni I had to listen to the complaints of Full Time students about having 3-4 hours of lectures and how they needed more time for coursework etc etc. which always annoyed the hell out of me.

To this day I see how ill prepared many students start work and how so many of them start work thinking they know everything, many students have almost no clue about the real world or its demands although a handful come through who redeem my opinion of them to some degree.

This was all done gaining one of the more difficult degrees, Mechanical Engineering.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Well done - that can't have been easy - but having no student debt, a decent job, plus your foot on the housing 'ladder' is fantastic.

I have to admit I didn't embrace my opportunity with quite the same success, but ultimately that isn't relevant to my point - in fact my son is probably a better example - he didn't go to Uni, but recently graduated with a foundation degree he achieved while in full time employment. He is now working through the modules to gain a full honours degree, lives in his own house & doesn't have a student loan.

- In my opinion vocational training is the way forward, the 'traditional' route through higher education is not cost effective at the point of delivery, any more.

I would like to see much more support from employers for staff who are willing to train - and more help from the government for those employers offering that support?

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

I agree with ignition on the point that further education is optional and as such it could be considered unfair that the state pays for it all. However I also think its a valid question as to how the country was able to afford it before the 90s and cannot now. What has changed?

I expect one answer is new labour's drive to get more students with all these lower level degree's escalated the cost.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

FYI, there were approx 280,000 students attending 47 Universities in 1980 - now there are approx 1,960,000 students attending about 115 Uni's (but still below the OECD average percentage, and less than the USA and Oz)

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

In practice then depending on your wage and if you pay it off at the minimum stipulated rate, maybe. But with interest rates that have varied between 1-3%, why would anyone pay it off early? If someone inherited £10k after leaving Uni would they really pay the student loan off in one go? Or put it in a deposit account, earn some interest and then pay any student loan off any future wages? I'd guess if they did decide to pay off their student, it'sa wonder they got a degree in the first place.

I've never though of my student loan as debt. If I don't have it, they don't ask for it. It's not like I have to decide wether to eat or pay the student loan. Some people drop out, never pay a penny back and it is written off after X years.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Presumably, the 47 does not include Polytechnics?

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Correct, as at the time, they were not Universities, and provided most non-degree vocational awards (further education, rather than higher education).

Even though, the numbers were much smaller in those as well - in 1980, our local (as was) Poly had about 4-5k people attending; it now has 30k, and I believe this growth is reflected in other post-92 Universities.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

You have to admit Hugh though that the difference within the work force from all these extra graduates is very easy to see.

In fact on Monday I'll discuss it with the various members of our team who were hired from abroad after, despite extensive searching, we failed to find anyone local with the skills to do the jobs.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

I have mixed feelings, which is why I was reporting numbers, rather than outcomes....;)

The upside of the expansion is that it gave more opportunity for those who previously would not have had the (economic or social) opportunity to experience Higher Education (pre 80's, most, with a few notable exceptions, Uni students were middle/upper class) - downside is some of the courses, and the ever-rising costs.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Do you know this *******?

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-...lbank_Violence

If so, do the right thing.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Do you mean letting the proper authorities deal with it?

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Either that or forcibly give him a wash and haircut. :)

If he has any sense (doubtful) he'll be looking at changing his appearance and going for a long holiday abroad for a good few months.

That said I'm sure there are plenty of defence lawyers lining up already to claim the extinguisher slipped out his hands and he was only up there to ensure nothing bad happened and really he's an angel who hasn't done anything wrong ever.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

so he was only making sure the roof didn't catch fire after all ,that explains it then ,i mean there were all those nutters about ;)

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Of course, they need to know who he is :rolleyes:

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

someone did the cops have arrested him ,sky link

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

[monty burns] excellent [/monty burns]

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Ho Ho Ho :)

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

so anyway Derek ,do they still de-louse prisoners with the fire hose ?

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Yep. The fire hose is just at the bottom of the stairs that prisoners always seem to fall down just after repeatedly headbutting several pairs of boots... :erm:

* This is a JOKE. Repeat a JOKE. Before people start spitting their rice crispies over their keyboard this kind of thing doesn't happen anymore and was never as widespread in the 70's and 80's as some people think it was *

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

I Hope he and all those others arrested, if found guilty, are prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, regardless of mitigation.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

And made to pay for the damage they did.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Well it will certainly screw up thier chances of getting a decent job if charged.

Way to go stoodents :tu:

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Seemingly they were exercising their democratic right to protest. In that case I hope the owners of the building exercise their democratic right to financially bitchslap them into the middle of next decade making any possible university fees seem like loose change in comparison.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

:clap:

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

the police are questioning him on suspicion of attempted murder ..not a trivial thing
i think they mean buisness

link

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Fairly standard to throw the book at someone in that way, I think. Remember, they're only questioning him at this stage, and no doubt hoping the seriousness of the 'M' word will persuade him to sing like a canary ... at which point they'll charge him with whatever they actually have sufficient evidence for.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Which is only right. if that had hit someone on the head it would almost certainly of killed them. you could even say that was the intention. but his lawyer will argue that he's just a little bit stupid.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

I seriously doubt an attempted murder charge will stick. From memory there needs to a proven intention to kill. Most likely he'll be charged with violent disorder or something similar.

Pity there isn't a culpable and reckless conduct charge in England like there is in Scotland. That would cover all the bases quite nicely and leave very little room to wriggle out of the charge on technicalities.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

I don't know. if those underneath were all his 'loved ones' and he did throw it and not drop it. I'd argue that being the weight it was and what it was made of. he threw it at his 'loved ones' to kill one of them.

he can't argue that he threw it thinking that it wouldn't hit anyone, so he had an intention in a way. harming or killing being the intention we decide on.

if they were his 'loved ones' and I threw it down at them. he'd be the first person to say I could have killed them. and that's after he knows that I threw it on purpose.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Some anarchists sites are posting information on what to do now if you were there and up to no good. Made me laugh as most of it could be summed up as 'behaving yourself for a while'.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Well, he is a stoodent after all... Allegedly.

;)

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-11829202

He is 'very sorry'... Well that's ok then.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

he wasn't that sorry ,it took five days to hand himself in and only then when his face was plastered all over the press.Interestingly the case had been refered to crown court for sentancing ,does that mean jail time ?

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

hopefully. It certainly looks like a custodial sentence is a possibility.

IIRC people convicted of violent disorder during previous disturbances outside the Israeli embassy got between 2-3 years.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

More rampage on the streets.

Quote:

Around 10,000 students and protesters flooded London for a new demonstration just a fortnight after anarchists unleashed mayhem at the Tory Party headquarters. Scotland Yard, determined not to be caught on the hop a second time, ensured hundreds of officers were on duty and quickly reinforced numbers as flashpoints developed. But there were reports this lunchtime that one officer had broken their arm and shocking footage outside the Foreign Office showed another being dragged to safety, apparently out cold. Huge crowds attempted to break the security cordon outside the building but the line of police was quickly bolstered to ensure the barricades were not breached, unlike a fortnight ago. The Territorial Support Group, who are more highly-training in public order containment, were then rushed in after protesters tried to batter their way to Downing Street using a barrier.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz16DEhrBhc

---------- Post added at 15:17 ---------- Previous post was at 15:09 ----------

I saw a couple of people wearing the mask that was worn in the film 'V'
it's actually quite fitting with what's going on.

http://redhot-fancydress.co.uk/store...loads/4418.jpg

---------- Post added at 15:32 ---------- Previous post was at 15:17 ----------

I guess we're lucky that the 'protestors' don't all wear yellow hi-vis tops. we wouldn't be able to make out who's who from the air. and it would look like the police were rioting too.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

The police should be issued tear gas and baton rounds. If the students want to get ugly then we should allow the police to get ugly as well.

The police should give warning that all genuine peaceful protesters leave now, Then get ugly with the idiots who want to fight and smash public property. I am sure those that stay will be a known core of idiots who travel from protest to protest just to start trouble.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

I'm hearing that quite a few of the protestors during the week are so hardcore and determined to smash the system that once contained and realising the Police weren't going to let them smash up anything resorted to calling mummy and asking for help :D

More than a few parents turned up at the cordon demanding their son/daughter be allowed through so they could be taken home.

Not exactly the image you want to portray to your hardcore hooligan chums. :rofl:

Also the Guardian, presumably crapping it at the impending loss of advertising revenue from it's jobs section thanks to cutbacks, are calling a couple of mounted officers going into the crowd at a walking pace a charge. :rolleyes:

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

I know absolutely hilarious,
"got to go in now ,mummy said i have to stop rioting because it's time for tea"

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

I hope they have taken down there names and address's so it's known where to send the bills for the damage and policing.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

How do you know they were all 'hardcore' and none of those contained were simple protesters? I support the police keeping order but some would have been young, even school age, and would be understandable scared.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Simple protestors? Oh Come on. If after last week they didn't realise that once people started smashing up Police vans, tried to break through Police lines and began spraying graffitti everywhere the 'kettling' tactic might be brought back then I really doubt they are bright enough to complete a degree.

Personally if I was protesting and it all started going a bit wrong I'd be heading the other direction ASAP and not posing with nicked bits of police equipment.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Good example (not):

Which goes to show you that it's difficult to control who takes part in a demonstration, and that it only takes a couple of morons out for trouble to ruin an otherwise peaceful demonstration.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Ringing their parent(s) is, to my mind as a parent, an entirely sensible thing to do - especially given recent incidences such as Tomlinson. I know that if one of my children were exercising their legal right to protest and baton weilding police suddenly started getting a bit frisky or intimidating I'd be more than happy to hear from them to confirm that they were safe / ok. It's a natural instinct and not everybody attending these protests was hellbent on violence and damage (as can be evidenced by the photo in the Guardian of the young schoolgirls trying to protect the police van from further damage).


Derek, the video here at 1:10 in shows the arrival of the mounted police at anything but a "walking pace".

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Aye right. Sure he was there and didn't realise nothing was ongoing. :rolleyes:

---------- Post added at 11:30 ---------- Previous post was at 11:29 ----------

Thats not a charge. Light trot maybe but nowhere near a full blown charge with batons drawn as the guardian are trying to portray it.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

The mounted police are just doing what they are trained to do and that is control crowds, most sane people will high tail it out of the way of a police horse coming towards them.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Either way Derek, based on what we see in the video we're agreed it's not a "walking pace".

I can't find any mention of batons in the Guardian article.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Walking pace.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

We need a Tomy 'My First Demonstration' kit for these guys, complete with phone card and picture of mum to show the police when it's pick up time :D

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Shamlessly stolen from Inspector Gadgets site.

:D

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

I actually agree with some of the sentiments expressed in Kevins post in relation to prioritization of principles.

However, unfortunately I don't think it'll be too long before someone, somewhere, ramps this up a level and a policeman or policewoman is very seriously injured or killed.

If / when that happens I hope he's at ease with his apparent misplaced admiration for the more militant / violent protest(s)ers that would be only too happy to visit upon the constabulary the sort of violence (and worse) he appears to miss / recall with great fondness from the 80's.

We live in an age where there are more illegally armed individuals roaming the streets than ever before. Sometimes one has to be careful for what one wishes for.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

LOL. I read it earlier and thought IG cracked it. Never read the comments though.

I see the press are immediately jumping the evil-police-horses-mercilessly-trying-to-kill-woman's-unborn-baby bandwagon.

It's amazing not only how many pregant women just always seem to end up in the middle of a protest which were always going to become violent but also on the front line of a confrontation with coppers.

Still soon enough we'll find out that she's not pregant and the issue is quietly dropped.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

dammed if they do ,dammed if they don't .The police got vilified by the press for not reacting with stronger numbers during the last protest and now they get vilified for using stronger numbers in the next riot because, rightly so ,they expected trouble .They can't win

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

And yet the most iconic photo of the rioting students in the 60s involved a boot to the head of one hapless policeman...

It's the rage that is the dangerous element in all this.It's been a long time since students have protested in such numbers.They have been pretty apathetic on the whole for the last 20 years and now they are stirred up and some elements, as they always do, will push matters to stupid lengths.
Let's hope that no one gets seriously injured or even killed because of stupidity.:(

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Which one?

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

I agree entirely Maggy.

I read an interesting comment on one blog which read "This morning, the parents and teachers of Britain woke up angry, in the sure and certain knowledge that the administration they barely elected is quite prepared to hurt their children if they don't do as they are told".

Whilst that is a very blanket statement, and best described as an opinion rather than a statement of fact, of real concern to me would be the fact that nobody seems to have noticed the obvious societal dangers which are presenting.

If the academically gifted of the nation, with a potential career path ahead of them, are prepared to jeopardize that future by taking part in protests (whether participating in violence or not) then what of those who in their own minds have no future and, by proxy, nothing to lose?

Are we to believe that they will quietly skulk in a corner and tug their forelocks simply because "an administration they barely elected" would like them to?

I really don't think so. There are those who will exploit this situation to their own ends and there are those who, presented with the reality of the situation, will feel entirely justified in expressing their anger and rage at what they perceive to be their abandonment, alienation and betrayal.

As Inspector Gadget says in the article linked to above "people these days act like this at the railway stations with the staff, at the taxi ranks after clubbing, with store detectives, to their housing officers, benefits staff and social workers." being on the receiving end of violence is not unique to the police.

Kevin will, I fear, realize his riotous aspirations sooner rather than later and that, in itself, is very worrying.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

It was an anti-Vietnam protest in 1968 and the picture was on every paper the following morning..I think it was either in Grosvenor Square or Leicester Square..I've never forgotten it.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Anti-Vietnam does not necessarily = student.

This picture I suspect...

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

It did in 1968 believe me..They were showing solidarity with the American students who were being drafted into the US forces.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Can't rep you but cheers dude.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Mr. A beat me to it... ;)

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Then it would appear that the police were correct in leaving the van because they were vulnerable because 15mins later the van was attacked ,don't know if sky are trying to cause trouble but they seem to have scored an own goal if that was their intention

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

I think what they're trying to say is that there was no tension, or reason for the police to feel they had to abandon the van at the time they did.

12:48pm no tension. leave the van
13:00pm decision to contain thousands of protesters
13:05pm van smashed up.

I think they're saying the van was damaged due to it being left there, and the police doing a containment for no reason.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Sorry, but if there are people out there who can't walk past a police vehicle without feeling a compulsive urge to smash it up, then they need arresting.

It has previously been stated that the containment was put in place due to intelligence that certain people in the crowd intended to attack Government targets. Keeping them out of Parliament Square was, IMO, a reasonable plan under the circumstances.

Whatever tension may have arisen as a result of that containment, it does not justify smashing up police vans.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Agreed. there's no reason during a protest to break any laws. I don't think the same people would think twice about the rights and wrongs about smashing anyones vehicle.

you see in these kind of things people smashing things to pieces. and you get the feeling that because of what's happening they think they have every right to. even though they probably would never do it in other circumstances.