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Sirius 16-09-2010 19:19
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35092680)
as an atheist i have no interest in the twisted views of this sad old git. reality will catch him up eventually .
Agreed. However when he starts broadcasting that bull plop at his public meetings then i start to see my bottom over him.

Quote:
The Pope has ignited a row by associating atheism with Nazism in the first speech of his UK visit.
If he wants to associate atheists with Nazi's then i have no problem associating Christians with pedophiles, Two can play at that game.

Quote:
"The notion that it was the atheism of Nazis that led to their extremist and hateful views or that it somehow fuels intolerance in Britain today is a terrible libel against those who do not believe in God.

"The notion that it is non-religious people in the UK today who want to force their views on others, coming from a man whose organisation exerts itself internationally to impose its narrow and exclusive form of morality and undermine the human rights of women, children, gay people and many others, is surreal."

The Pope's speech follows controversial comments by one of his top aides in an interview with German magazine Focus.

Cardinal Walter Kasper, 77, spoke about the Godlessness of a section of English society, claiming Britain was facing an "aggressive new atheism" and "Christians were at a disadvantage".
Why has he started spouting all this bull plop anyway. Is it that he must upset as many people as he can whilst he is here part of his objective.

papa smurf 16-09-2010 19:41
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirius (Post 35092696)
Agreed. However when he starts broadcasting that bull plop at his public meetings then i start to see my bottom over him.



If he wants to associate atheists with Nazi's then i have no problem associating Christians with pedophiles, Two can play at that game.



Why has he started spouting all this bull plop anyway. Is it that he must upset as many people as he can whilst he is here part of his objective.
its a distraction ploy -now all the kafiks are pointing at the evil nazi atheist baby eaters;)

Sirius 16-09-2010 19:49
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35092708)
its a distraction ploy -now all the kafiks are pointing at the evil nazi atheist baby eaters;)
I have a perfect reply to that but it would get me banned :LOL:

Mr Angry 16-09-2010 19:50
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirius (Post 35092696)
If he wants to associate atheists with Nazi's then i have no problem associating Christians with p(a)edophiles, Two can play at that game.
And in doing so you not only cause equally ill informed affrontery but you also do yourself a disservice.

Sirius 16-09-2010 19:56
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Angry (Post 35092714)
And in doing so you not only cause equally ill informed effrontery but you also do yourself a disservice.
Well he just wound me up :)

If i want to be a atheist that is my decision, However i don't expect the leader of the catholic church to assume that because i am an atheist i must therefor be associated with Nazi-ism



.

Mr Angry 16-09-2010 20:04
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirius (Post 35092720)
Well he just wound me up :)
So, if someone from the catholic church purporting to be Gods representative here on earth winds you up you think it's entirely appropriate to maligin christianity in its entirety?

That's a very strange concept of balanced and subjective atheism.

Effectively you are suggesting that you were "wound up" by the comments of the supposed spokesperson of something you refuse to countenance as even possibly existing.

Does that not strike you as a little "strange" - to say the least?

Traduk 16-09-2010 20:14
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
Do we have a party or group with political aspirations that hold extremist views with intolerance to just about everybody and anything that cannot be considered to have Great Britain running through their bodies like a stick of rock.

The parallels with the rise of Nazism were using a bit of foresight whereby in the difficult financial times ahead there could be social unrest whereby views that are rejected during normal times may become attractive.

I suspect that he envisages very difficult socio\economic times ahead and hopes that "nasty nick et al" do not attract an increased level of support.

That party (if they can be called one) has clashed with the church of England recently over using Christian symbolism to put over their message.

Atheist extremists was probably too broad a brush with which to paint a picture but perhaps he thought that with a few seconds worth of thought people would add the elements together and realise that we only have one group that is a candidate for comparison with Nazi or Fascist extremism.

Niles Crane 16-09-2010 20:18
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
More mixed messages from the Pope and his posse. The UK is like the third world? The UK is at threat from "aggressive forms of secularism"? Third world and theocracy are practically synonymous.

speedfreak 16-09-2010 20:21
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Angry (Post 35092722)
So, if someone from the catholic church purporting to be Gods representative here on earth winds you up you think it's entirely appropriate to maligin christianity in its entirety?

That's a very strange concept of balanced and subjective atheism.

Effectively you are suggesting that you were "wound up" by the comments of a spokesperson of someone / something you refuse to countenance as even possibly existing.

Does that not strike you as a little "strange" - to say the least?
Arent you reading a bit too much in to it? Sirius explained his reasoning behind what he said, he didnt like being referred to as a Nazi just for being an Atheist so he made the paedophilia comment in the same way the Nazi comment was made

Sirius 16-09-2010 20:25
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by speedfreak (Post 35092733)
Arent you reading a bit too much in to it? Sirius explained his reasoning behind what he said, he didnt like being referred to as a Nazi just for being an Atheist so he made the paedophilia comment in the same way the Nazi comment was made
Thank you :tu:

My point is if you are willing to pick on a group and call them names, Expect that group to call you names back.

danielf 16-09-2010 20:30
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Traduk (Post 35092726)

I suspect that he envisages very difficult socio\economic times ahead and hopes that "nasty nick et al" do not attract an increased level of support.
I suspect he actually means what he says. Evils such as Nazism could not happen in the moral framework of religion (particularly Catholicism), and as such we're all on a slippery slope by not accepting his authority over our moral judgment. Nice bloke... :erm:

Peter_ 16-09-2010 20:31
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
I find it strange that he can class me an atheist as a potential nazi when he actually wore the uniform of the Hitler Youth, a case of the pot calling the kettle black when he is the one supporting the cause.

I abhor everything the nazi party stood for but he wore the uniform and no amount of back pedalling can ever remove that stain.

Little point in posting articles to prove otherwise as history can and will be massaged to cover up peoples bad press from the past.

danielf 16-09-2010 20:37
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masque (Post 35092746)
I find it strange that he can class me an atheist as a potential nazi when he actually wore the uniform of the Hitler Youth, a case of the pot calling the kettle black when he is the one supporting the cause.

I abhor everything the nazi party stood for but he wore the uniform and no amount of back pedalling can ever remove that stain.

Little point in posting articles to prove otherwise as history can and will be massaged to cover up peoples bad press from the past.
In fairness, he wore that uniform because, like all German youths at the time, he was required to.

Anyway, it's a funny thing that Atheists are tarred with the Nazi brush while there's a huge row in Europe over Reding's comparison of France's Roma deportation with WW2. But hey. Reding isn't the Pope...

Mr Angry 16-09-2010 20:39
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by speedfreak (Post 35092733)
Arent you reading a bit too much in to it?
I don't think so - can you "read too much" into God or atheism? Atheists do not believe in God(s) therefore it follows - by logical extension -that they would pay no heed, whatsoever, much less take offence at anything to anyone purporting to be a spokesperson or represenrtative of any such deity here on earth might say.

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedfreak (Post 35092733)
Sirius explained his reasoning behind what he said,
No, actually, he didn't. He used an out of context assertion as an excuse to level an attack on christianity as a whole.

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedfreak (Post 35092733)
he didnt like being referred to as a Nazi just for being an Atheist
But he wasn't compared to a nazi for being an athiest. The pope made the analogy in relation to "atheist extremism". Given the offence taken by Sirius in relation to the comment and who it was made by one would be hard pushed, in light of my observations above, to accept that Sirius is, in the conventional sense, an atheist let alone an extreme atheist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedfreak (Post 35092733)
so he made the paedophilia comment in the same way the Nazi comment was made
He didn't. He may have intended to but he didn't. The "atheist extremism" is aimed at extremists, not athiests in general per se. Sirius's comment was aimed at "christians" in general and not specifically catholics.

danielf 16-09-2010 20:42
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Angry (Post 35092754)
I don't think so. Athiests do not believe in God(s) therefore it follows that they would pay no heed, whatsoever, much less take offence at anything to anyone purporting to be a spokesperson or represenrtative of any such deity here on earth might say.
What a strange concept. The man has tremendous influence over lots of people and calls for more influence of religion on politics and daily life. I'd say his statements are very relevant to non-believers.

Mr Angry 16-09-2010 20:51
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielf (Post 35092757)
What a strange concept. The man has tremendous influence over lots of people and calls for more influence of religion on politics and daily life. I'd say his statements are very relevant to non-believers.
His statements and the outcome / affects of same combined with his influence may well be relevant to believers and non-believers alike but the fundamental fact remains that the atheist position is that he cannot speak for God as God does not exist.

The fact that they get so tied up in the theology of the arguments they have put forward over the years instead of addressing the papal mission creep is a major part of the problem - and no small coincidence.

Cobbydaler 16-09-2010 20:57
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Angry (Post 35092766)
His statements and the outcome / affects of same combined with his influence may be relevant to believers and non-believers alike but the fundamental fact remains that the athiest position is that he cannot speak for God as God does not exist.

The fact that they get so tied up in the theology of the arguments they have put forward over the years instead of addressing the papal mission creep is a major part of the problem - and no small coincidence.
:D

danielf 16-09-2010 20:58
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Angry (Post 35092766)
His statements and the outcome / affects of same combined with his influence may be relevant to belivers and non-believers alike but the fundamental fact remains that the athiest position is that he cannot speak for God as God does not exist.

The fact that they get so tied up in the theology of the arguments they have put forward over the years instead of addressing the papal mission creep is a major part of the problem - and no small coincidence.
I fully agree that the theological argument should be completely irrelevant to Atheists. The outcome however isn't. And if that is associating Atheism with Nazism, I think people are right to be aggrieved. Having said that, there is indeed no need to counter affront with further affront.

speedfreak 16-09-2010 20:59
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
wow. I only wrote a couple of lines and you managed to get that much from it, I feel like I've just been mentally analysed over a forum :LOL:

I dont have the time to pick posts apart like that. If I did Id point out why I disagree with most of the points you made. I was just voicing my opinion in that I can see where Sirius is coming from. He'd explained why he said what he said but you left that bit out when you quoted him. Not after a row, yes I know you arent either :) I was just making a quick point not entering a debate, poor show I know :)

Peter_ 16-09-2010 21:06
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielf (Post 35092753)
In fairness, he wore that uniform because, like all German youths at the time, he was required to.
But he seems to think that by virtue of being an atheist that we should be nazi's, he wore the uniform and is still busy back pedalling and we the atheists will feel that the is more likelihood of him being the real nazi.

Mr Angry 16-09-2010 21:10
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielf (Post 35092777)
.....if that is associating Atheism with Nazism, I think people are right to be aggrieved.
Again, I don't think it was aimed at ordinary God fearing atheists.

That said I'm quite sure there are still Nazi atheists and atheist extremists in abundance who no doubt - theology aside - are furious with his comments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by danielf (Post 35092777)
Having said that, there is indeed no need to counter affront with further affront.
Agreed 100%.

danielf 16-09-2010 21:54
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masque (Post 35092786)
But he seems to think that by virtue of being an atheist that we should be nazi's, he wore the uniform and is still busy back pedalling and we the atheists will feel that the is more likelihood of him being the real nazi.
You'd have worn the uniform if you'd have lived in Germany and was of the right age at the time.

---------- Post added at 20:54 ---------- Previous post was at 20:52 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Angry (Post 35092788)
Again, I don't think it was aimed at ordinary God fearing atheists.
Perhaps. Then again, the man has previous form when it comes to extremely self-righteous ermm clumsiness is the word I guess...

Peter_ 16-09-2010 22:10
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielf (Post 35092816)
You'd have worn the uniform if you'd have lived in Germany and was of the right age at the time.
Or I might have worn a yellow star.:(

danielf 16-09-2010 22:15
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masque (Post 35092829)
Or I might have worn a yellow star.:(
True. But I think you get the point. The fact that he wore the uniform does not make him a nazi. He was one of many that were forced to wear the uniform. It's a bit cheap to hold it against him.

Peter_ 16-09-2010 22:21
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielf (Post 35092837)
True. But I think you get the point. The fact that he wore the uniform does not make him a nazi. He was one of many that were forced to wear the uniform. It's a bit cheap to hold it against him.
So is comparing atheists to nazi's which is even cheaper.

Also with my surname I could have wore both items the star or a uniform.

danielf 16-09-2010 22:26
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masque (Post 35092840)
So is comparing atheists to nazi's which is even cheaper.
Clumsy and misguided (perhaps even dangerous), but not cheap I think.

Quote:
Also with my surname I could have wore both items the star or a uniform.
Same here, I didn't though, and I suspect neither did you.

martyh 16-09-2010 22:34
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
Why is he dragging up nazis anyway ,i'm sure there are more pressing issues within the catholic church that need to be addressed than atheist nazis

Stephen 16-09-2010 22:43
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
1 Attachment(s)
I was at the mass in Glasgow and had a great day.

He is the leader of the Catholic church. I personally don't care what he may have done when he was younger!

Took this photo of him

Sirius 16-09-2010 22:52
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielf (Post 35092837)
True. But I think you get the point. The fact that he wore the uniform does not make him a nazi. He was one of many that were forced to wear the uniform. It's a bit cheap to hold it against him.
As being an atheist does not make you a Nazi but he seems to think it does.

What shocks me is, Was that speech not vetted first.

If it was then there was certainly intent meant by it , But if it was not then i suggest he gets the next one checked first before he puts his big foot in it again.

danielf 16-09-2010 23:00
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirius (Post 35092855)
As being an atheist does not make you a Nazi but he seems to think it does.
I think it's slightly more nuanced than that, but it does seem to go in that general direction.

Quote:
What shocks me is, Was that speech not vetted first. If it was then there was certainly intent meant by it. However if it was not then i suggest he gets the next one checked first before he puts his big foot in it again.
He's infallible. So there's no need to vet the speech. Vetting the speech might even be seen as an admission that he's not infallible.

LondonRoad 16-09-2010 23:06
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen (Post 35092854)
I was at the mass in Glasgow and had a great day.

He is the leader of the Catholic church. I personally don't care what he may have done when he was younger!

Took this photo of him
SWMBO and 8 year old LR were there. They're just home about half an hour ago looking very weather beaten but had a great day.

wwe 16-09-2010 23:16
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
i think its great him being here see the look on people faces they were so excited

Gary L 16-09-2010 23:52
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
I think if the pope was to wear a normal dark suit there wouldn't be such a fascination with him. the white thing is like an optical illusion.

LondonRoad 16-09-2010 23:55
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary L (Post 35092881)
I think if the pope was to wear a normal dark suit there wouldn't be such a fascination with him. the white thing is like an optical illusion.
I noticed that with Michael Jackson. :erm:

Gary L 17-09-2010 00:00
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
And what's with the waving like the queen? can't he just wave like he's saying "alright, how ya doing?!" ?

Mr Angry 17-09-2010 01:07
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary L (Post 35092881)
I think if the pope was to wear a normal dark suit there wouldn't be such a fascination with him. the white thing is like an optical illusion.
What do you mean by "the white thing is like an optical illusion" Gary?

Are you yourself seeing something by way of an "optical illusion" that nobody else might be seeing?

Do share, I'm sure there are people interested in what it is you (think) are seeing.

Gary L 17-09-2010 01:33
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
I'll help you out a bit.

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2010/09/55.jpg

Ignore the senile red shoes.

Mr Angry 17-09-2010 07:37
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
Gary,

Those are his vestments, he is actually wearing them, it's not an optical illusion.

Many hundreds of thousands of the clergy have been wearing similar garments over the past few hundreds of years.

Hope that helps.

papa smurf 17-09-2010 08:34
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary L (Post 35092927)
I'll help you out a bit.

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2010/09/55.jpg

Ignore the senile red shoes.
never mind him what's that geezer next to him come as ???:)

Gary L 17-09-2010 09:48
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Angry (Post 35092948)
Gary,

Those are his vestments, he is actually wearing them, it's not an optical illusion.
I did say it's like an optical illusion. I didn't say it was an optical illusion.

---------- Post added at 08:48 ---------- Previous post was at 08:47 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35092955)
never mind him what's that geezer next to him come as ???:)
A Blackpool stick of rock. :)

Maggy 17-09-2010 09:52
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Angry (Post 35092675)
By "extremism" he most probably means "them" or, alternatively, anyone, anything and any body which doesn't subscribe or conform to his partcular mindset at any given time.
I feel I must point out that there are a growing number of atheists whom I can only describe as extremist in the way they present their case,go after Christian institutions and Christian notables and seem to want to attribute all of society's ills to the influence of religion.

I certainly understand the term Nazi atheist.However invoking the term Nazi loses the argument straight off as it does when they are dragged into any debate..

I as an fairly laid back atheist certainly don't like extremist atheists anymore than I appreciate fanaticism in any of it's forms.;)

Pierre 17-09-2010 10:53
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Angry (Post 35092788)
Again, I don't think it was aimed at ordinary God fearing atheists.
I like the subtle humour.

However, in this instance I think it is the perfect time to show that those who do not believe in supernatural beings (I don't like to be categorised as an atheist), can have a higher moral attitude than the leader of the catholic church and simply turn the other cheek.

Just ignore him and he'll go away.

Let the catholics and christians enjoy their leaders visit.

I enjoy the fact that I am not as gullible, and easily fooled on a daily basis.

Mr Angry 17-09-2010 13:48
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary L (Post 35092977)
I did say it's like an optical illusion. I didn't say it was an optical illusion.
Help me out again Gary. Which particular optical illusion that you have experienced is it "like"?

danielf 17-09-2010 14:08
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Angry (Post 35093075)
Help me out again Gary. Which particular optical illusion that you have experienced is it "like"?
[tongue in cheek]

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2010/09/28.gif

[/tongue in cheek]

---------- Post added at 13:08 ---------- Previous post was at 12:56 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35092503)
As it's unlikely we're going to be able to keep the various aspects/arguments over the Pope's visit to the UK separate, I have merged threads into one.

Please now use this thread for ALL discussion of the Pope during his visit to the UK.
I think this might be worthy of its own thread, but I'll put it here for now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BBC
Five held over Pope terror alert

Five men have been arrested by the Metropolitan Police in London in relation to a potential threat to the Pope.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11346001

Gary L 17-09-2010 14:13
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Angry (Post 35093075)
Help me out again Gary. Which particular optical illusion that you have experienced is it "like"?
I don't know. like an optical illusion where a man dressed all in white looks like he's something that we find fascinating. when if you were to put a suit on him he wouldn't be so fascinating.

I describe it as an optical illusion because of the following reasons that I will break down for your benefit.

optical = eyes, to see, vision.
illusion = false mental image.

Chris 17-09-2010 14:14
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
That might be a disguise, a deception, an affectation ... any number of things. But not an optical illusion.

Saaf_laandon_mo 17-09-2010 14:15
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
Terror alert and arrests over pope's visit :
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11346001

Mr Angry 17-09-2010 14:44
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary L (Post 35093097)
I don't know. snip
Yes, I'd already gathered that.

Stephen 17-09-2010 16:50
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary L (Post 35093097)
I don't know. like an optical illusion where a man dressed all in white looks like he's something that we find fascinating. when if you were to put a suit on him he wouldn't be so fascinating.

I describe it as an optical illusion because of the following reasons that I will break down for your benefit.

optical = eyes, to see, vision.
illusion = false mental image.
IMO you are talking total nonsense there! He is wearing white as its tradional dress within the Catholic church.

All the priests that were at the mass yesterday were also wearing white.

Chris 17-09-2010 17:13
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielf (Post 35092777)
I fully agree that the theological argument should be completely irrelevant to Atheists. The outcome however isn't. And if that is associating Atheism with Nazism, I think people are right to be aggrieved. Having said that, there is indeed no need to counter affront with further affront.
Having listened to that speech in full, as it was made, I think the accent was on extremism rather than Nazism. He used that as it's an obvious example from his own personal experience. Believe me, I'm no fan of the office held by Joseph Ratzinger, but fair's fair, when it comes to Nazis he knows what he's talking about (and no, I'm not poking fun at his membership of the Hitler Youth, quite the opposite).

It so happens that Nazi extremism was fuelled by an extremist atheistic worldview. What would be more interesting would be an acknowledgement from Herr Ratzinger of the pain caused by Romish extremism, such as the Inquisition (whose successor organisation he was head of prior to being elected to the office of Bishop of Rome).

papa smurf 17-09-2010 17:27
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-...I,_Sources_Say


Sky News crime correspondent Martin Brunt said he understood the men were North Africans employed by the agency to work for Westminster City Council.
:mad:north Africans coming over here threatening our pope;)

Stephen 17-09-2010 17:38
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary L (Post 35092927)
I'll help you out a bit.

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2010/09/55.jpg

Ignore the senile red shoes.
The red shoes are a traditional part of the Popes attire.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_shoes
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/im...s/viewpost.gif
never mind him what's that geezer next to him come as ???:)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary L
A Blackpool stick of rock. :)
Think you will find the guy on the left of the photo is part of the Swiss Guard who Police the Vatican City. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_Guard


So don't take the pee if you don't understand or know what something is for!

TheDaddy 17-09-2010 17:38
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35093188)
Having listened to that speech in full, as it was made, I think the accent was on extremism rather than Nazism. He used that as it's an obvious example from his own personal experience. Believe me, I'm no fan of the office held by Joseph Ratzinger, but fair's fair, when it comes to Nazis he knows what he's talking about (and no, I'm not poking fun at his membership of the Hitler Youth, quite the opposite).

It so happens that Nazi extremism was fuelled by an extremist atheistic worldview. What would be more interesting would be an acknowledgement from Herr Ratzinger of the pain caused by Romish extremism, such as the Inquisition (whose successor organisation he was head of prior to being elected to the office of Bishop of Rome).
Good points up until the Inquisition bit, I recently read/heard a piece saying that The Inquisition actually stopped a lot of the vigilante justice meated out at the time, that fewer than 1% of trials resulted in death or torture and in many cases they ordered more lenient sentences than the normal secular courts would have.

Trouble is with this subject that decent figures and statistics are hard to come by, what isn't in doubt is that the figures of 9 - 40 millions plus deaths at the Inquisitions hands are ludicrously wide of the mark. Not that I am in any way excusing their actions after all love and forgiveness are at the heart of their doctorine.

danielf 17-09-2010 17:42
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35093188)
Having listened to that speech in full, as it was made, I think the accent was on extremism rather than Nazism. He used that as it's an obvious example from his own personal experience. Believe me, I'm no fan of the office held by Joseph Ratzinger, but fair's fair, when it comes to Nazis he knows what he's talking about (and no, I'm not poking fun at his membership of the Hitler Youth, quite the opposite).
Possibly. That doesn't make it a particular smart thing to say. I posted about the outcry over Redinger's remarks earlier for a reason. What the Pope said isn't that far removed from what Reding said. Reding didn't say the French were Nazis either. From memory, She said something along the lines of: I'd have thought this type of thing wouldn't happen after WW2. The French were up in arms about that. But when it comes from the Pope it's ok?

It appears that this Pope, being the academic that he is, has a knack for being completely oblivious about how his theoretical/theological reasoning will be understood outside the narrow confines of academia. That's not just my personal opinion, I've heard it said several times on a catholic radio show that I happen to catch once in a while.

Quote:
It so happens that Nazi extremism was fuelled by an extremist atheistic worldview. What would be more interesting would be an acknowledgement from Herr Ratzinger of the pain caused by Romish extremism, such as the Inquisition (whose successor organisation he was head of prior to being elected to the office of Bishop of Rome).
If memory serves me correctly, the Vatican wasn't exactly outspoken in its condemnation of the Nazi regime either? It seems a bit rich to claim the moral high ground in this respect, as the theist/catholic morals apparently didn't make them take a stand against the Nazis either?

TheDaddy 17-09-2010 17:55
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielf (Post 35093210)
If memory serves me correctly, the Vatican wasn't exactly outspoken in its condemnation of the Nazi regime either? It seems a bit rich to claim the moral high ground in this respect, as the theist/catholic morals apparently didn't make them take a stand against the Nazis either?
Pius didn't speak out with good reason, he helped save nearly a million Jews, any out burst would have put paid to that and made conditions in the camps worse. Pre war he wasn't quiet though, I seem to remember a Palm Sunday message in the late 1930's denouncing all acts of anti semitism.

danielf 17-09-2010 18:09
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 35093215)
Pius didn't speak out with good reason, he helped save nearly a million Jews, any out burst would have put paid to that and made conditions in the camps worse. Pre war he wasn't quiet though, I seem to remember a Palm Sunday message in the late 1930's denouncing all acts of anti semitism.
To be honest, it's not something I've studied. Just a few snippets I've caught over the years. Anyhow: back to Herr Ratzinger: he didn't seem too concerned about pardoning a holocaust denying bishop. Yes. That clearly is the right thing to do for a man of proper moral fiber.

peanut 17-09-2010 18:17
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen (Post 35093203)
Think you will find the guy on the left of the photo is part of the Swiss Guard who Police the Vatican City. !
I went to the Vatican on a tour of Italy (1st honeymoon), and yeah the guards do look funny but their walk is great, very Monty Pythonesque. If they came after me I wouldn't know whether to run or laugh. Amazing place though.

Gary L 17-09-2010 18:34
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen (Post 35093203)
So don't take the pee if you don't understand or know what something is for!
Unless you're my dad. I'll take the pee out of whoever, and whatever I like.

---------- Post added at 17:34 ---------- Previous post was at 17:33 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen (Post 35093175)
IMO you are talking total nonsense there! He is wearing white as its tradional dress within the Catholic church.

All the priests that were at the mass yesterday were also wearing white.
I haven't disputed otherwise. I said that because he's in white people may look at him as being special. compared to him not wearing it and wearing a suit, and not looking special.

wwe 17-09-2010 19:11
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
the pope seems to be having a good time here. busy man

idi banashapan 17-09-2010 20:30
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen (Post 35093175)
IMO you are talking total nonsense there! He is wearing white as its tradional dress within the Catholic church.

All the priests that were at the mass yesterday were also wearing white.


tee hee hee - he wears a dress!! pffff! lol!

Mick 17-09-2010 20:39
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary L (Post 35093224)
Unless you're my dad. I'll take the pee out of whoever, and whatever I like.
Unless you want to lose your membership, no you will not. :nono:

idi banashapan 17-09-2010 20:45
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
let's be honest, the shoes really don't go though - traditional dress or not. if the belt were also red to give a bit more accent, it might work better.

Chris 17-09-2010 20:47
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
Ladies and gentlemen, we have our very first celebrity poster.

[img]Download Failed (1)[/img]

:D

Hugh 17-09-2010 20:55
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by idi banashapan (Post 35093295)
let's be honest, the shoes really don't go though - traditional dress or not. if the belt were also red to give a bit more accent, it might work better.
I thought the shoes were for contrast, rather than to complement the vestments.

I also thought they went with his eyes.

idi banashapan 17-09-2010 20:59
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35093298)
Ladies and gentlemen, we have our very first celebrity poster.

http://cdn.sockshop.co.uk/cms_media/...50-7014293.jpg

:D
lol - quick!! nice one!

---------- Post added at 19:56 ---------- Previous post was at 19:56 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by foreverwar (Post 35093301)
I also thought they went with his eyes.
ha ha ha ha!!!

---------- Post added at 19:59 ---------- Previous post was at 19:56 ----------

Pope says religion has become 'Marginalised'

bbc.co.uk story

idi Banashapan says 'I don't care'

Tezcatlipoca 18-09-2010 00:31
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saaf_laandon_mo (Post 35093101)
Terror alert and arrests over pope's visit :
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11346001
http://twitpic.com/2p94vy

TheDaddy 18-09-2010 02:53
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielf (Post 35093217)
To be honest, it's not something I've studied. Just a few snippets I've caught over the years.
Link I'd start about half way down the page, if you're interested...

Quote:
Anyhow: back to Herr Ratzinger: he didn't seem too concerned about pardoning a holocaust denying bishop. Yes. That clearly is the right thing to do for a man of proper moral fiber.
He didn't pardon him for holocaust denial though, he was excommunicated for being consecrated a Bishop against the will of John Paul II.

Chris 18-09-2010 09:46
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielf (Post 35093217)
Anyhow: back to Herr Ratzinger: he didn't seem too concerned about pardoning a holocaust denying bishop. Yes. That clearly is the right thing to do for a man of proper moral fiber.
A slight aside on that point if I may. When discussions of religious extremism and hatred come up (for example, the Koran-burning nutter, or the Crusades), Christianity gets a kicking from people who say 'I thought it was all about love, peace and forgiveness'. Yet when Herr R. pardons (i.e. forgives) someone, he's lacking moral fibre.

We're damned if we do and damned if we don't sometimes.

(By people that is. Not by God, thankfully. ;) )

papa smurf 18-09-2010 10:14
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
We will not be silenced, Pope tells secular Britain
The Pope strongly criticised the “marginalisation” of Christianity in modern Britain, claiming that churchgoers were forced to act against their conscience in the name of secular equality.


so this tolerance is all a lie then ???



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...r-Britain.html

Chris 18-09-2010 10:20
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
That's a fairly large leap of illogic, Papa. Tolerance of someone else's lifestyle is not the same thing as actively supporting it. I imagine the Catholic adoption agencies are a good example here.

Derek 18-09-2010 10:23
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
Does having feelings of extreme agression and thoughts of violence whenever Peter Tatchell appears on screen mouthing off make me a bad person?

papa smurf 18-09-2010 10:29
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek (Post 35093497)
Does having feelings of extreme agression and thoughts of violence whenever Peter Tatchell appears on screen mouthing off make me a bad person?
he makes my skin crawl BUT he does have imo some valid points ,try to see past the man a listen to the points he is trying to make .
if that fails just bang your head on the wall :banghead:;)

danielf 18-09-2010 12:17
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35093481)
A slight aside on that point if I may. When discussions of religious extremism and hatred come up (for example, the Koran-burning nutter, or the Crusades), Christianity gets a kicking from people who say 'I thought it was all about love, peace and forgiveness'. Yet when Herr R. pardons (i.e. forgives) someone, he's lacking moral fibre.

We're damned if we do and damned if we don't sometimes.

(By people that is. Not by God, thankfully. ;) )
As mentioned above. He was not pardoned for denying the holocaust, but rather for his unauthorized consecration. The moral fibre that appeared to be lacking was the fact that Mr. Williamson being a holocaust denier didn't appear to come into the equation. (Of course Mr. R. has backpedalled since and claimed 'Ich habe es noch gewusst'*. Now where did we hear that phrase before ;))

(*Yes, I'm being a bit childish here)

---------- Post added at 11:17 ---------- Previous post was at 11:07 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 35093458)
Link I'd start about half way down the page, if you're interested...
Cheers! I'll have a look at that. I did spend some time on Wiki yesterday, and that broadly confirmed what you said, but it appears the topic isn't entirely uncontroversial.

papa smurf 18-09-2010 13:33
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saaf_laandon_mo (Post 35093101)
Terror alert and arrests over pope's visit :
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11346001
according to the beeb -6 people detained -3 premisses searched -nothing found -is it possible i wonder if these people really are just street cleaners .

Russ 18-09-2010 13:40
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek (Post 35093497)
Does having feelings of extreme agression and thoughts of violence whenever Peter Tatchell appears on screen mouthing off make me a bad person?
As an extension to that, does having feelings of euphoric pleasure when he decided to try to get Robert Mugabe get arrested only to end up getting his butt kicked by his heavies make me a bad person?

dilli-theclaw 18-09-2010 13:43
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
I just had the news on and Peter asked me if that was the Pope, surprised I asked how he knew that.

"well he looks Popish doesn't he"

Excellent :)

papa smurf 18-09-2010 13:48
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ (Post 35093586)
As an extension to that, does having feelings of euphoric pleasure when he decided to try to get Robert Mugabe get arrested only to end up getting his butt kicked by his heavies make me a bad person?
getting pleasure from seeing someone beaten up .

Schadenfreude: Deriving Pleasure from Others’ Pain - does it make you a bad person?. thats between you and your conscience .

“Conscience is what hurts when everything else feels so good” ;)

papa smurf 18-09-2010 17:37
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
Papal visit: thousands protest against Pope

Organisers of the Protest the Pope event say they want to highlight his stance on controversial subjects, including the ordination of women.

Sex abuse and Catholic opposition to contraception have also been criticised.

The march set off towards Whitehall where a rally will be held with speakers including human rights activist Peter Tatchell.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11355258

RizzyKing 18-09-2010 20:10
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
Let him come let him go and encourage at every oppurtunity him to speak because as soon as he does he gets on the wrong side of so many it's unreal. This is an out of date man heading an out of date organisation and unless the latter changes it will not last. If not believing in god makes me a nazi in his eyes so be it my personal conduct over my life has been better then that of many of his priests so what does that make them your holiness.

papa smurf 18-09-2010 20:18
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RizzyKing (Post 35093794)
Let him come let him go and encourage at every oppurtunity him to speak because as soon as he does he gets on the wrong side of so many it's unreal. This is an out of date man heading an out of date organisation and unless the latter changes it will not last. If not believing in god makes me a nazi in his eyes so be it my personal conduct over my life has been better then that of many of his priests so what does that make them your holiness.
the thing is he speaks and millions follow his every word ,he is after all Gods representative on Earth [to Catholics].. to much power in one pair of hands imo.

RizzyKing 18-09-2010 21:31
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
While i get what your saying i unlike his holiness has better faith in people then to suggest that just because a person may belong or subscibe to one ideology or another that it doesn't change the base principles of who that person is. Most of the catholics i know have been the loudest in condemning the church over the whole paedophile saga and they want answers and action every bit as much as me. The day when the pope was the be all and end all is long gone and catholics exercise their right to be individuals of a certain belief rather then just automatons to the will of the church or the pope and if that single alteration in the actions of the church is not heeded it will doom itself.

Sirius 18-09-2010 22:00
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RizzyKing (Post 35093794)
Let him come let him go and encourage at every opportunity him to speak because as soon as he does he gets on the wrong side of so many it's unreal. This is an out of date man heading an out of date organisation and unless the latter changes it will not last. If not believing in god makes me a nazi in his eyes so be it my personal conduct over my life has been better then that of many of his priests so what does that make them your holiness.
Well said sir :clap:

danielf 19-09-2010 00:08
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35093582)
according to the beeb -6 people detained -3 premisses searched -nothing found -is it possible i wonder if these people really are just street cleaners .
It certainly looks like that...

Quote:
The six - who work as street cleaners in Westminster - were arrested after they were overheard in the works canteen apparently plotting an attack.

The Metropolitan Police has refused to confirm reports that the men were joking, saying they had to investigate what might have been a genuine threat.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11359756

Bloody foreigners. Coming over here to clean our streets whilst having a laugh :mad: ;)

frogstamper 19-09-2010 03:49
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielf (Post 35093971)
It certainly looks like that...



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11359756

Bloody foreigners. Coming over here to clean our streets whilst having a laugh :mad: ;)
Its just been announced on the news that all six "suspects" have been released without charge.

BBKing 19-09-2010 09:59
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
Quote:
It certainly looks like that...
What, the Met anti-terror boys know a good Muslim arrest story comes in handy when there are cuts on the way? Fancy that.

I wonder if the Mail/Express will be apologising. Actually, I wonder when the local Islamophobes on here will stand up and defend the right to have a joke in a cafe in 'free' Britain.

Chris 19-09-2010 09:59
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielf (Post 35093971)
It certainly looks like that...



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11359756

Bloody foreigners. Coming over here to clean our streets whilst having a laugh :mad: ;)
So Britain really is a Nazi hellhole after all. We'd all better watch what we say from now on, you never know which of your neighbours might go scurrying to the secret police. You wouldn't want to 'disappear' into Paddington Green nick, would you ...

danielf 19-09-2010 12:45
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35094115)
So Britain really is a Nazi hellhole after all.
It's all them extreme Atheists I tells you. Trying to protect the Pope and what's not. ;)

Derek 19-09-2010 13:10
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielf (Post 35093971)
Bloody foreigners. Coming over here to clean our streets whilst having a laugh :mad: ;)
To be fair to the Police can you imagine the outcry if the pope did get blown up and it was discovered that they ignored a potential threat because they thought it was a joke?

danielf 19-09-2010 13:14
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek (Post 35094222)
To be fair to the Police can you imagine the outcry if the pope did get blown up and it was discovered that they ignored a potential threat because they thought it was a joke?
Oh yes. It's a difficult one. They can't afford to let one slip, so it stands to reason to err on the side of caution. It's a sad state of affairs though.

papa smurf 19-09-2010 13:31
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
what the secular society makes of the popes visit


Nailing the Pope’s lies

By Terry Sanderson

As expected, the fawning British media is giving the pope a very easy ride, despite a string of ridiculous and untrue claims in his speeches.

First off he declares himself “shocked” by the child abuse scandal, as though this is the first he has heard of it. The press swallow this little exaggeration whole. Ratzinger has known about the priestly abuse of children for thirty years, since he became Prefect of the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith which oversees priestly discipline.

He demanded, in a letter to every bishop in the world, that all cases of priestly molestation of children should be reported not to the criminal authorities but to the Vatican directly, and all efforts must be made to keep it quiet.

Now he rewrites history to give the impression he knew nothing about it, even though several cases of cover up have been traced directly to his door and the press unquestioningly print this lie.

Then he launches an attack on ‘aggressive secularism’. Nowadays it seems secularism cannot be mentioned without a pejorative adjective being added. This neatly sidesteps the need to engage in any sort of debate about it.

But the British people have little to do with religion, they stay away from churches, they don’t heed church teachings and they gain great pleasure from slamming the door in the face of doorstepping preachers who try to tell them how to live their lives.

This independence of mind is something to celebrate. It demonstrates a healthy lack of respect for self-appointed “faith leaders” who want to mould us to their own image. The British people have embraced a secular way of life, and the country is all the better for it.

After all, wasn’t it Britain that was singled out for praise from the United Nations for its generous and timely response to the Pakistani floods last month? Were we not named as the people most willing to help? That’s how evil a secular outlook is. (By the way, what was the contribution of the Vatican “state” to this disaster relief fund?)

And then we have Ratzinger’s suggestion that the rise of atheism opens the door to the return of the Nazis. Only the Catholic Church can save us from such a fate.

Again, Ratzinger re-writes history. Look at this damning election poster from the era of the Third Reich and then tell me again that the Catholic Church will defend us from evil atheistic Nazis.

The fawning media has done this country a disservice. The BBC has tried to convince us that the papal trip has been a great success. But the truth is very different. Compare the two pictures below which say more than a thousand words or a dozen opinion polls can about the comprehensive rejection of religion that has taken place in Britain over the past 30 years.

http://www.secularism.org.uk/nailing...opes-lies.html

Gary L 19-09-2010 13:38
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35094240)
Compare the two pictures below which say more than a thousand words or a dozen opinion polls can about the comprehensive rejection of religion that has taken place in Britain over the past 30 years.
I agree with that. I think a lot of it is the paedophilia within the church that has done the damage. they'd be the last people you'd think would do such a thing. and because they have and do it's quite shocking.

Not that it has or it will happen, but can you imagine people screaming at the pope or his men saying "get away from my child you pervert!" it'll be a sad day for mankind if it ever came to that.

Arthurgray50@blu 19-09-2010 13:46
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
To me The Pope has apologised for what has happened in the Catholic Church, what l think should happen as that other churches should look in the own back garden, when l was a young church goer, many years ago, l got abused as a kid, but you cannot change life, the church are very good at covering up these things, the guy has gone upstairs now, but you cannot get back those terrible years, so just forget it, thats my view.

The only person who knew was my wife, What has to happen is that you cannot change life, and convict them for what, 5 years behind bars, you have to get on with life and prevent it happening to anyone else.

papa smurf 19-09-2010 13:58
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu (Post 35094250)
To me The Pope has apologised for what has happened in the Catholic Church, what l think should happen as that other churches should look in the own back garden, when l was a young church goer, many years ago, l got abused as a kid, but you cannot change life, the church are very good at covering up these things, the guy has gone upstairs now, but you cannot get back those terrible years, so just forget it, thats my view.

The only person who knew was my wife, What has to happen is that you cannot change life, and convict them for what, 5 years behind bars, you have to get on with life and prevent it happening to anyone else.
i assume you mean Heaven ,:confused:strange rout for an abuser to take .

how do you prevent it from happening again? if you don't speak out and get them convicted they just move on to their next victim.

Gary L 19-09-2010 14:04
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35094256)
i assume you mean Heaven ,:confused:strange rout for an abuser to take .
That's an interesting question. do those priests go to heaven. should they go to heaven? or do they only go because they believed in God during the abuse?

been discussing this with others. did the abusers think that it was ok to abuse the children whilst 'working' for God? do they still expect to go to heaven when they know that God is watching?

there were cases where their victims were threatened with not going to heaven if they didn't allow the abuse to take place.

which in itself makes a mockery of actually telling people that they have sinned for other reasons.

papa smurf 19-09-2010 14:58
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary L (Post 35094263)
That's an interesting question. do those priests go to heaven. should they go to heaven? or do they only go because they believed in God during the abuse?

been discussing this with others. did the abusers think that it was ok to abuse the children whilst 'working' for God? do they still expect to go to heaven when they know that God is watching?

there were cases where their victims were threatened with not going to heaven if they didn't allow the abuse to take place.

which in itself makes a mockery of actually telling people that they have sinned for other reasons.
well they obviously see no wrong in what there doing ,its been going on for long enough ,and just treat as a sin and sins can be forgiven and forgiven and forgiven.

im now wondering how much this visit has cost me as a tax payer and did i get anything out of the popes visit apart from an insult about atheists and a jibe about Nazism which was priceless .

Gary L 19-09-2010 15:12
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35094280)
well they obviously see no wrong in what there doing ,its been going on for long enough ,and just treat as a sin and sins can be forgiven and forgiven and forgiven.
I think it's probably the case of being forgiven for all your sins at the door, as long as you recognise God when he opens it.

---------- Post added at 14:12 ---------- Previous post was at 14:01 ----------

I don't know what they're talking about, or what brought it up, but they're talking on the BBC news about not having a white person for the next pope???

Chris 19-09-2010 16:57
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary L (Post 35094282)
I don't know what they're talking about,
You don't know because you don't look.

Francis Arinze.

Quote:
or what brought it up
Probably because Joe Ratzinger, the current Man in the White Suit, is 83 years old. There has been speculation about his successor since the day he got the job.

Quote:
but they're talking on the BBC news about not having a white person for the next pope???
Unless he happens to have been born in the Vatican, Gary, the Pope is always an immigrant.

Gary L 19-09-2010 17:06
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35094336)
Unless he happens to have been born in the Vatican, Gary, the Pope is always an immigrant.
She did say it would be good to have a black pope for the usual reasons. I'm all for having a black anything. but it's got to be for the right reasons. not because the reason is he or she is black.

the person she was speaking too though said it would probably be another white.

Hom3r 19-09-2010 18:46
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
I will 100% guarantee that the next pope will not be a black woman :D

papa smurf 19-09-2010 19:00
Re: The Pope Thread [UK visit 2010 - merged]
 
women don't seem to have much in the way of equality in religion i wonder why that is - one thing you can be certain of is it will be someone old .


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