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-   -   France expels its gypsies (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33668969)

Hugh 17-09-2010 11:37
Re: France expels its gypsies
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 35093005)
Where do you draw the line, I wouldn't want to live in this ideal world where things like ethnic cleansing in Yugoslavia and apartheid in South Africa were allowed to continue unchallanged because it's happening 'in their own countries'.
:clap::clap::clap::clap:

PeteLockwood 17-09-2010 11:42
Re: France expels its gypsies
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 35093005)
Where do you draw the line, I wouldn't want to live in this ideal world where things like ethnic cleansing in Yugoslavia and apartheid in South Africa were allowed to continue unchallanged because it's happening 'in their own countries'.
fair enough, but are you saying a country does not have the right to stand up for itself as it sees fit ?

TheDaddy 17-09-2010 11:52
Re: France expels its gypsies
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteL (Post 35093008)
fair enough, but are you saying a country does not have the right to stand up for itself as it sees fit ?
I am not saying that.

PeteLockwood 17-09-2010 12:00
Re: France expels its gypsies
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 35093013)
I am not saying that.
you are saying it is not right for a country to impose sanctions against foreign people that it does not want there ?

danielf 17-09-2010 12:03
Re: France expels its gypsies
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteL (Post 35093008)
fair enough, but are you saying a country does not have the right to stand up for itself as it sees fit ?
"As it sees fit" seems a bit broad to me, and I'd guess that the UN Security Council would disagree with the above statement.

PeteLockwood 17-09-2010 12:09
Re: France expels its gypsies
 
if the french do not want non-french no matter where they are from romania bulgaria england america is it not there RIGHT to make that known ?

TheDaddy 17-09-2010 12:10
Re: France expels its gypsies
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteL (Post 35093019)
you are saying it is not right for a country to impose sanctions against foreign people that it does not want there ?
Depends what the sanctions are really, unless of course you're saying anything goes from gas chambers in Europe to machetes in Rwanda...

Taf 17-09-2010 13:56
Re: France expels its gypsies
 
Germany is sending 14,000 bods back to Kosovo... 10,000 of them are Roma

danielf 17-09-2010 13:59
Re: France expels its gypsies
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taf (Post 35093080)
Germany is sending 14,000 bods back to Kosovo... 10,000 of them are Roma
Linkie?

PeteLockwood 17-09-2010 13:59
Re: France expels its gypsies
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 35093024)
Depends what the sanctions are really, unless of course you're saying anything goes from gas chambers in Europe to machetes in Rwanda...
there is 1 MAJOR difference it is NOT the case as they are not sending them to there death, they are merely asking them to go home or be forced, nothing wrong with that at all, just like a failed asylum seeker..

TheDaddy 17-09-2010 14:09
Re: France expels its gypsies
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielf (Post 35093082)
Linkie?
The Berishas are among some 14,000 Kosovars - 10,000 of them Roma - to be returned from Germany under a bilateral deal in April, nearly 11 years after the end of the Kosovo war.

http://www.thelocal.de/society/20100819-29267.html

chris9991 17-09-2010 14:15
Re: France expels its gypsies
 
Is Kosovo part of the EU?

PeteLockwood 17-09-2010 14:37
Re: France expels its gypsies
 
why not just kick romania out of the eu, much easier and less of a financial burden for germany france and the uk

TheDaddy 17-09-2010 14:47
Re: France expels its gypsies
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteL (Post 35093084)
there is 1 MAJOR difference it is NOT the case as they are not sending them to there death, they are merely asking them to go home or be forced, nothing wrong with that at all, just like a failed asylum seeker..
Not yet, like I origionally asked where does the line get drawn and when do we get involved?

---------- Post added at 13:47 ---------- Previous post was at 13:46 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris9991 (Post 35093100)
Is Kosovo part of the EU?
Nope

PeteLockwood 17-09-2010 15:22
Re: France expels its gypsies
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 35093108)
Not yet, like I origionally asked where does the line get drawn and when do we get involved?

---------- Post added at 13:47 ---------- Previous post was at 13:46 ----------



Nope
we dont get involved, in fact i think we should get rid of our roma's too, disgusting people.

TheDaddy 17-09-2010 15:32
Re: France expels its gypsies
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteL (Post 35093120)
we dont get involved,
Finally you answer the question, "we don't get involved". That's the ideal world you were talking of, one where we allow ethnic cleansing in Yugoslavia and apartheid in South Africa to go completely unchallanged.

Damien 17-09-2010 15:43
Re: France expels its gypsies
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteL (Post 35093120)
we dont get involved, in fact i think we should get rid of our roma's too, disgusting people.
Yes, that attitude isn't one which has caused problems in the past:rolleyes:

Taf 17-09-2010 17:16
Re: France expels its gypsies
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielf (Post 35093082)
Linkie?
Sorry!


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11338112

Quote:
The issue of Roma expulsions touches a raw nerve in Germany.

Under a deal agreed last April, 14,000 refugees are to be returned to Kosovo. Ten thousand of them are Roma.

The UN children's agency Unicef warned that half of the Roma to be deported are children, most of whom were born and raised in Germany.

But unlike the Roma that France is expelling to Romania and Bulgaria, they do not enjoy the right to return, because they are not EU citizens.

martyh 28-09-2010 19:05
Re: France expels its gypsies
 
well it had to happen

link

Quote:
Thousands of Roma Gypsies deported from France will head for Britain, Germany or Spain, according to members of their community
Quote:
Iiordan Marian is among thousands who have just been expelled from France.
He said police had forced him onto a plane and smashed his camp
They did though give him 300 Euros compensation, which he spent on car air fresheners.
He says he will sell them on the streets of London, because he believes his desired destination of Britain has a generous benefits system and respects human rights

Sirius 28-09-2010 20:00
Re: France expels its gypsies
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35099773)
well it had to happen

link
Man the border points :)

martyh 28-09-2010 20:03
Re: France expels its gypsies
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirius (Post 35099803)
Man the border points :)
it'll be a good test as to how commited the new government is towards immigration control

Taf 28-09-2010 20:43
Re: France expels its gypsies
 
The trouble is that these Romanians can come here on holiday, but can't work except under certain rules... and I reckon a lot won't even consider "work" as their method of income.

martyh 28-09-2010 20:50
Re: France expels its gypsies
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taf (Post 35099845)
The trouble is that these Romanians can come here on holiday, but can't work except under certain rules... and I reckon a lot won't even consider "work" as their method of income.
i agree ,they will live on fringes of society moving around so it will be impossible to keep track of them
I think this is a problem that needs to be tackled by all euro member countries not just passed on to one country to deal with ,and they need to start with romania itself and tackle the issues that stop it supporting it's own citizens

Gary L 28-09-2010 20:53
Re: France expels its gypsies
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taf (Post 35099845)
The trouble is that these Romanians can come here on holiday, but can't work except under certain rules... and I reckon a lot won't even consider "work" as their method of income.
I say as an expirement we should just let whoever wants to come in to come in. give them full benefits, health care and everything.

I spoke too soon.

Quote:
Benefits tourists are set to get the green light to come to Britain and immediately claim handouts totalling £2.5billion a year.
According to documents leaked to the Mail, ministers have been warned that restrictions on claims by immigrants are against the law and must be scrapped.
The European Commission's ruling threatens to open the door to tens of thousands who are currently deterred from coming to Britain.
Quote:
Britain had toughened up its rules in 2004 when the EU was expanding its borders. The restrictions assess the eligibility of those from the EU and from Iceland, Liechtenstein and Norway.

But the Commission has begun legal proceedings against Britain to get restrictions on welfare claims by incomers scrapped.

If successful, the Government would be required to remove its deterrents to benefit tourism, including the right-to-reside test and an additional qualification for those claiming jobseeker’s allowance, that they must have worked for 12 months or more.

Officials warn the bill could be between £1.3billion and £2.5billion a year – hampering plans to rein in welfare spending.

However, Work and Pensions Secretary Iain Duncan Smith is understood to be determined to fight the move through the courts if necessary.

The Whitehall source warned: ‘This has the potential to open the doors of the benefits system to anyone coming here from the entire European economic area, who may have no intention of working or even looking for work but simply wants to claim benefits.

'We already have enough of a problem managing people who want to come here. But this would open up a whole new wave of benefit tourism.’
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz10qtdsoJU

Hugh 28-09-2010 20:53
Re: France expels its gypsies
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35099773)
well it had to happen

Quote:
Iiordan Marian is among thousands who have just been expelled from France.
He said police had forced him onto a plane and smashed his camp
They did though give him 300 Euros compensation, which he spent on car air fresheners.
He says he will sell them on the streets of London, because he believes his desired destination of Britain has a generous benefits system and respects human rights
link
Further down that link Mr Marian contradicts his earlier comment
Quote:
Sky News was told 90% of the Roma who have been deported from France have now left the village for Britain, Germany or Spain, in the belief those countries represent a softer option.

Marian though is going back to France, with him and his five children already having packed their bags.

"There's nothing here," he said.

"I can go to France and win my bread easily. In four months I can make enough money to feed my family for one year."
Stand down the Border Patrols....;)

martyh 28-09-2010 21:05
Re: France expels its gypsies
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35099856)
Further down that link Mr Marian contradicts his earlier comment

Stand down the Border Patrols....;)
That's the thing isn't it ,this country is in as bad a financial state or worse than the rest of europe so what opportunities exist here that don't in the rest of the main countries like spain ,germany and france ?.I don't see any benefit in any migrants comming here ,the benefit system is under close scrutinity as is the tax system and trying to milk either one by migrants is only going to get harder ,work opportunities aren't any better in this country either

frogstamper 29-09-2010 06:32
Re: France expels its gypsies
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary L (Post 35099855)
I say as an expirement we should just let whoever wants to come in to come in. give them full benefits, health care and everything.

I spoke too soon.
I would take what the Daily Hate writes on immigration with a pinch of salt Gary, invariably they fail to print the entire story with all the facts.
It suits their agenda to print sensational headlines claiming Britain is sinking under a biblical tsunami of scrounging, thieving ner-do-well immigrants who are hellbent on bringing down the British establishment...remember they have previous, an awful lot of previous.

Derek 29-09-2010 14:45
Re: France expels its gypsies
 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11437361

Quote:
The European Commission is to launch legal proceedings against France over its expulsion of Romanian and Bulgarian Roma (Gypsy) migrants.
Now if the proceedings go against them do you think the French will:

A- Comply fully and with no fuss
Or
B- Ignore the ruling and continue doing as they please?

Chris 29-09-2010 14:49
Re: France expels its gypsies
 
B. And so they should. Not that I agree with their actions in this case, but IMO the governments of nation states should be answerable to their electorates, not free trade associations with ideas way above their station.

Ignitionnet 29-09-2010 15:01
Re: France expels its gypsies
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35100255)
B. And so they should. Not that I agree with their actions in this case, but IMO the governments of nation states should be answerable to their electorates, not free trade associations with ideas way above their station.
If you get the chance please remind our government of that.

TheNorm 30-09-2010 11:26
Re: France expels its gypsies
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35100255)
...IMO the governments of nation states should be answerable to their electorates....
And what if the electorate decided that the Roma should be rounded up and put into camps surrounded by barbed wire and armed guards?

Taf 30-09-2010 12:22
Re: France expels its gypsies
 
Sounds like a useful idea prior to shipping them away... would keep them out of trouble.

Chris 30-09-2010 12:25
Re: France expels its gypsies
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNorm (Post 35100700)
And what if the electorate decided that the Roma should be rounded up and put into camps surrounded by barbed wire and armed guards?
That would depend on exactly who, and why. I'm not going to start theorizing on vague generalisations. ;)

TheNorm 30-09-2010 12:33
Re: France expels its gypsies
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35100722)
That would depend on exactly who, and why. I'm not going to start theorizing on vague generalisations. ;)
Vague?

And why does it depend on "...who, and why"? Can you suggest a situation where such behavior would be acceptable?

Chris 30-09-2010 12:35
Re: France expels its gypsies
 
I've a better idea - it's your scenario, you flesh it out, then we can discuss it more effectively.

TheNorm 30-09-2010 14:13
Re: France expels its gypsies
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35100729)
..., you flesh it out, ....
OK. Suppose there is a referendum in France, calling for Roma to be rounded up and put into camps surrounded by barbed wire and armed guards. The referendum is passed by the electorate, in a democratic election.

The camps are constructed and staffed, and convoys of soldiers collect Roma and move them into the camps. They might rely on local people to identify the Roma in case they are difficult to recognise. Work colleagues would be encouraged to name Roma, or even descendents of Roma (depending on the precise wording of the referendum and any laws which arose afterwards). Schoolchildren would be encouraged to identify Roma families. Loyal citizens of France would do their utmost to "cleanse" society of the Roma. If they don't help, then they can't be loyal, can they?

Would you be happy for this process to occur without intervention from "...free trade associations with ideas way above their station"?

Taf 30-09-2010 15:21
Re: France expels its gypsies
 
Quote:
. Suppose there is a referendum in France, calling for thieves, robbers, murderers and rapists to be rounded up and put into camps surrounded by barbed wire and armed guards. The referendum is passed by the electorate, in a democratic election.

The camps are constructed and staffed, and convoys of soldiers collect thieves, robbers, murderers and rapists and move them into the camps. They might rely on local people to identify the thieves, robbers, murderers and rapists in case they are difficult to recognise. Work colleagues would be encouraged to name thieves, robbers, murderers and rapists, or even descendents of thieves, robbers, murderers and rapists (depending on the precise wording of the referendum and any laws which arose afterwards). Schoolchildren would be encouraged to identify thieves, robbers, murderers and rapists families. Loyal citizens of France would do their utmost to "cleanse" society of the thieves, robbers, murderers and rapists. If they don't help, then they can't be loyal, can they?

Chris 30-09-2010 15:29
Re: France expels its gypsies
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNorm (Post 35100803)
Would you be happy for this process to occur without intervention from "...free trade associations with ideas way above their station"?
Yes. Such circumstances fall clearly within the purview of the UN.

TheDaddy 30-09-2010 15:53
Re: France expels its gypsies
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35100865)
Yes. Such circumstances fall clearly within the purview of the UN.
For UN see League of Nations. The very reason we were signed up to the EU was to stop scenarios like Norm's occuring in Europe again, we cant rely on that New York talking shop.

Interesting changes you made to that post Taf, notice you didn't feel the need to change the word "cleanse" though sadly.

Ignitionnet 30-09-2010 16:15
Re: France expels its gypsies
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNorm (Post 35100803)
OK. Suppose there is a referendum in France, calling for Roma to be rounded up and put into camps surrounded by barbed wire and armed guards. The referendum is passed by the electorate, in a democratic election.

The camps are constructed and staffed, and convoys of soldiers collect Roma and move them into the camps. They might rely on local people to identify the Roma in case they are difficult to recognise. Work colleagues would be encouraged to name Roma, or even descendents of Roma (depending on the precise wording of the referendum and any laws which arose afterwards). Schoolchildren would be encouraged to identify Roma families. Loyal citizens of France would do their utmost to "cleanse" society of the Roma. If they don't help, then they can't be loyal, can they?

Would you be happy for this process to occur without intervention from "...free trade associations with ideas way above their station"?
If we all decide to go to logical extremes there should be no sovereignty at all, ever, as you never know when a state may decide to do something objectionable.

I'm sure I could come up with some extreme examples to try and prove my point too, doesn't change that the EU is federalist, largely socialist,. and has no respect at all for individual member states or for that matter democracy.

Taf 30-09-2010 17:16
Re: France expels its gypsies
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 35100890)
Interesting changes you made to that post Taf, notice you didn't feel the need to change the word "cleanse" though sadly.
Why? It's a perfectly apt English word to describe the "cleaning" of outlaw dross from society.

Or maybe it's that overused phrase "ethnic cleansing" that makes you sad? It certainly makes me sad when directed against innocents.

TheDaddy 30-09-2010 17:18
Re: France expels its gypsies
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taf (Post 35100989)

Or maybe it's that overused phrase "ethnic cleansing" that makes you sad? It certainly makes me sad when directed against innocents.
It's not an overused phrase when it comes to these people....


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