Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

No idea, my router responds normally to ICMP as a node should :)

In my defence I didn't talk about it being a privacy or a security matter, just a pain in the backside that breaks things.

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

However some here seem to think the bloody world is about to end because of this :rolleyes:

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

A journey of a 1000 miles is accomplished 1 step at a time.

Who is best placed to decide when a step is a step too far.

The treader or the trodden on.

Just a thought. :)

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

Next up, someone will quote Pastor Neimoller....;)

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

Quite - that's half the frustration the way it's been done has given more fuel to those fires that were born out of Phorm. :rolleyes:

Hey I'm a poet and I.... :D

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

Not quite in the way you were expecting I bet ;)

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/08...media_opendns/

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

That report just says the same thing as the first few pages of posts.. i.e...you have an opt out, if you don't like it then use the opt out..

:rolleyes:

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

:O jesus

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

The comments are quite funny. The author is someone who makes his money through search type stuff so hardly surprising he's a patronising ass about it all.

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

Does anyone know where the settings are stored?

On Firefox it goes to Google. I found the URL setting in about:config but removing it leads to a chrome error.

On IE it goes to Google but through a Dell link (I have a Dell laptop)

I've tried googling but nothing really comes up.

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

I believe it's a setting in the registry.

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

the "opt out" if you don't like it misses the point it should be opt in

and though some seem to think its not going to lead to it being used for other things they are being naive

this and other companies think if they keep on doing it it will be seen as the norm and no one ( important ) complains so it must be the right way

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

Well said, I totally agree.

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

There isn't a setting on your PC that controls the search page, it's a re-direct triggered by an unsuccessful lookup from the Virgin DNS servers. Instead of returning a "cannot find the record" type of reply, therefore triggering a 404 error on your PC, virgin tell your browser to go the the virgin search page. It's all done via the DNS servers, nothing local on your PC at all.

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

If you don't like it then just use Open DNS problem solved.

Google it if you want to findout more about it ;)

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

Which, as has been said before, does exactly the same thing - just that you are choosing to do it, rather than take the opt-out option with VM.

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

And you're putting yourself further away from the DNS server, both hop and latency wise but also from a supportability point of view...

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

OpenDNS has 9 DNS servers one of which is located in London so hops and latency is not the problem that you may think.

Supportability is another non issue because in the eternity I have used the service there has not been a single issue that has affected me. I used them after trying all manner of on PC type software DNS's because VM's DNS servers were so unreliable.

VM's DNS servers are still comparatively slow as I saw when my 20Meg was transferred to the 50Meg connections (for a few days). The allocated DNS servers on the 50Meg group connections were the same old visible hesitation that has been a problem with VM for years.

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

While true, however the IP addresses OpenDNS uses are registered to the US thus breaking anyone that returns an IP address closer to your location, eg Google, but then OpenDNS fake the results for Google anyway so not the best example.

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

Funny you saying Virgin's DNS servers are slow - I did a few quick digs against their DNS servers, and I can't get a response for what I assume must be cached lookups in more than 10ms. OpenDNS don't respond in less than 50ms ever.

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

With VM its the age old story... when its good, its very very good but when its bad its awful. A snapshot in time doesn't prove much for me as I use the service for hours each day. Over the span of a few days the use of VM's DNS servers always led me to wondering what had gone wrong and if wasn't the usual packet loss it was I suspect queuing for DNS responses.

Personally I couldn't care less about how good bad or indifferent VM's DNS servers are because I can choose not to use them or disable the hijack that they are going to implement.

What bothers me is the fact that they are obviously actively looking at revenue adding and I suppose that it is ironic that when I used the words "mission creep" earlier it took relatively little time for someone to find a fairly current missive from VM which puts Phorm and the likes back in the frame, albeit they are still undecided.

This DNS hijack is a pathetic little problem but is "opt-out" and may well set a precedent for something like Phorm when from in-house statistics VM will be able to state massive percentages that chose not to opt-out. If that argument opens the doors to Phorm then the services that VM provide and I do actually enjoy them (most of the time) will be dumped. It is the threat of Phorm etc that is and will stop me from upgrading to 50Meg because if my opt-out is via the exit door then I will not allow a new contract.

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

Isn't there a difference between "hijack" and "redirect", as they appear to be being used interchangeably in this thread.

I have never heard on the news that terrorists have redirected a plane to Cuba. ;)

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

Think of all that money from the Ads ...... and to think that Virgin will plough all this back into providing us with a better, cheaper service and not give a single penny to the shareholders ..... wow what a great company.

Their main reason for introducing this is "to help us get to where we want to go on the internet", this in itself is admirable, but to use all the revenue generated to reduce their prices and provide us with a more efficient service, deserves an award from Alan Sugar.

....... if anyone seriously believes any of this carp, we might as well all give up now :rolleyes:

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

Mmmmm, businesses looking for new ways to make a profit - barstewards! ;)

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

Actually this really ****ed me off as I pay enough to Virgin as it is. I phoned them up (dial 150 from virgin line) told them I was ****ed off and they told me they flicked a switch on their stystems to turn this so called "feature" off... after a restart I no longer see the virginmedia PPC search screen :)

---------- Post added at 15:29 ---------- Previous post was at 15:23 ----------

Oh... If they said to me we will reduce your monthly bill if we can feed adverts to your browser I would then have said "sure, no problem"... But this is not the case so I'd advise anyone who is cheesed of by this "feature" to call virgin media and tell them to turn off the feature on your account!

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

:LOL:

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

Obviously they aren't giving the customer service people computers anymore. Like the old, old telephone exchanges they have collections of wires to link together and switches to flick.

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2009/08/16.jpg

:LOL:

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

Bingo!

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

LOL, I didn't know VM's systems were THAT complicated ;)

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

Its a simple redirect VM didn't hijack anything. I tested this a couple of months ago and I can see it useful for people that mistype things. Maybe older people or less computer literate people.

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

No. They are using their DNS servers. Phone virgin media up and ask them "why am I seeing a virgin search screen in my browser when I misstype youporn.com".

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

No, the DNS lookup returns 'Not found'. Instead of returning this response unchanged to the the user, it is hijacked by VM and replaced with the IP of their search page.

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

Redirected

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

They aren't hijacking anything. If you type type a URL in wrong you normally would get a failed lookup from the dns servers, instead of this happening, they are forwarding the results on to a search engine on your behalf.

BTW, no need to phone up, earlier in the thread this url was posted: https://my.virginmedia.com/advancederrorsearch/settings

Thing is, there are certain family/friends of mine that would welcome this service on their ISP, mainly as their IT literacy is best described as "limited".

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

They have upgraded now ....... this is the new Hi Tech kit, with switches :D

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2009/08/15.jpg

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/URL_redirection

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNS_hijacking

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

That's what it was called before VM did it, it's what it will be called when other ISPs do it.

Is it somewhat emotive? Perhaps, but just because VM are doing it it neither exempts it from this description nor is a cause of it. Nothing personal to them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNS_hijacking

Hijacked - there is no facility in DNS to redirect. If a domain doesn't exist you should respond with an NXDomain, end of.

See above and indeed below. Given that I believe you guys both work in IT That neither of you appear to recognise a DNS hijack when you see one is a bit confusing. Might be useful but it's still a hijack of a server higher up the DNS hierarchy's NXDomain response.

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

If its VM's own DNS servers providing the search response its not hijacking! Its a redirect, simples

As I said I was part of the testing for this and its easy enough to opt in or out of.

For some people it will be better than getting the page not found message, as it will give them a list of possible sites they might have meant.

Never worked properly for me all the time, something to do with the setup of my router.

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

Agreed, but I don't like it...

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

Do you know how DNS works?

VM query a server higher up the chain, then change the NXDomain response for their own result, that's hijacking the query and replacing the NXDomain response from a server higher up the DNS hierarchy with their own. Simples.

EDIT: Technically it's no different from you connecting to a website and me intercepting your request and giving you my own responses. I'd call that a hijacked session. If Virgin run web proxies and change things around again that would be considered as hijacking of web sessions. You must understand that Virgin's DNS is not the be all and end all of DNS in the entire world, they are getting information from elsewhere and changing it.

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

Totally agree, but I hate it! I like to see "Server not found".

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

So why isn't it opt-in? .. and since many will have already set up something similar with a provider of THEIR choice, what right do VM have to override this?

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

When I was testing it, the service was opt in.

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

Yep... I'm with you on that one too... Unless they were going to reduce my monthly bill and let customers know about it before they did it... I had no emails from Virgin Media telling me about this, no letters, nothing... Rude people they are...

---------- Post added at 19:00 ---------- Previous post was at 18:56 ----------

Thought there would be such a link, I did not read the whole thread sorry. However I like to vent my frustration or anger through my voice, you get all the emotion and passion that way...

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

So who was the suckhole who decided to make it opt out ?
No doubt they were given a nice gold plated VM pen for the suggestion.

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

I doubt that VM ever had the slightest intention of making it 'opt-in' when it went live.

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

No need to apologise, it wasn't meant in a "read the whole *&^%$£ thread" way.:)

to BBings, Yes, technically it's a hijack and I agree. However the word hijack is by default a malicious term. I don't believe that Virgin are doing anything malicious(yet), indeed as i've posted, i think this could help certain groups of people.

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

No doubt, but to labour the point, it should be OPT-IN

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

agreed

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

Understood, but there are many terms which are 'by default' malicious, doesn't make them any less accurate even if the immediate perception might be inaccurate.

They aren't malicious but Virgin's DNS resolvers rather than caching and relaying the response they are getting from DNS servers are hijacking that communication between you and these servers and replacing it with their own entries.

It's like saying that a trojan horse isn't a trojan horse if it doesn't do anything more malicious than change your Internet Explorer title bar because the name 'Trojan Horse' suggests maliciousness not mischief.

Again this is nothing personal against Virgin, I hope that the claims that it isn't hijacking aren't anything personal for them :)

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

Your average user would most likely find this helpfull and would have a clue about DNS requests to begin with. For those's where this represents the end of the world you have one (1) DNS request 'hijacked'. Is this really such a big deal?

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

Agreed, prices are already "decent" and for a company that is battling the likes of BT - I would welcome any "other" profitable revenue VM could find, if it ment VM is to kept safe and have extra cash to put into their network and maybe, bring down the STM idea. :)

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

You must be labouring under the misapprehension that VM provide services with the primary intension of benefiting their subscribers. :)

I think you can be absolutely sure that the beneficiaries of any cost cutting/revenue raising ideas, further or otherwise, activated by VM will not be the Subscribers or even non executive Staff for that matter.

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

Quite right

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

I agree with you 100%

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

Well clearly you don't fall under that bracket of loyal. Your constantly complaining about the company yet I can't help but see you have the service. Please, leave and goto ADSL. see what service you get then and complain about that

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

Keep it on topic can't you.
This thread is about a VM browser hijack.
If you want to make a personal attack on me I suggest you start a new thread it's bad form to hijack someone elses.
Oh! And do try to be more original. The phraseology you are using has been absolutely done to death over the years. :p:

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

Right then can someone put me right on this. I've trawled through the techspeak garblese on that VM webpage and read through this thread so three straight question:-


1)Is Virginmedia redirecting data generated by me sitting at my computer to a third party without specifially asking for my consent?

2)Is Nominum a company capable of restricting access to certain websites that it or VM or any other 3rd party (such as the government) consider should be banned.

3)Is Nominum a company capable of logging ip addresses of people attempting to access websites that might be banned in future?

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

No, no.....and no.

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Mockapetris

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

1) Yes - when you attempt to go to an invalid domain what you actually typed is being sent to Nominum's search engine.
2) No - if a site's address is valid it will be dealt with purely by VM's own systems.
3) No - see 2)

The potential is there for it to happen, but not under the current system. VM would have to turn all of their DNS over to Nominum.

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

Thanks.

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

The problem with having something like this as opt-in is that the very people it will benefit will NEVER know about it.

It's far easier to have it opt-out as the vast majority of people aren't tech aware enough to know what it is, what it does, or how they could enable it, and if you sent them letters explaining it they'd pass it off as tech gobbledeegook and ignore it.

Instead you stick it as opt-out, with the page explaining very easily how to disable it and what it is, and then the people that don't want it get to see it all of once and can disable it 5 seconds later.

The people that are so against it they'd disable it are far far outweighed by those that would benefit from it, so having it opt-in is by far the best idea as then the people it's actually designed to benefit will get the benefit from it.

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

Apart from VM just who else will benefit.

It's illegal to sign a form on someone elses behalf unless you have their specific permission therefore why should it be legal for VM to opt me into something I never heard of.

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

The Don,

When you start going down the path of for the common good of the technical challenged users, exploitation follows.

The idea of looking after the vast unsophisticated masses in the form of some variation of a "walled garden" approach to internet is a failed business model.

This little irritation of hijacking failed DNS searches is very likely to be just an opening gambit to eventually impose Phorm or something comparable. It is no accident that when the DNS hijack became a imminent reality that a press release popped up that put Phorm etc. back in the frame.

VM could easily use the apparent easy acceptance of DNS hijacking on an opt-in basis as an argument for something altogether much less acceptable. I can see the argument already going along the lines of "the vast percentage of users remained opted-in" which could be used as leverage to do pretty much as they liked.

I subscribe to the school of thought "give 'em an inch and they'll take a mile" with VM as in many areas of advertising etc. they spin the truth in to something highly questionable. I want them to give me what I pay for and not mess with it in any way so as to exploit my usage for their enhanced profit. If they cannot come up with a pricing model which gives both them and me an acceptable deal without underhand dealings then they will lose my part of the deal.

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

The phrase "Thin end of the wedge" springs to mind.

But like so much in todays society most people just smile and bend over when the "wedge" is being smartly rammed up their backside.

'Smack, thank you sir, may I have another?'

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

Of course, spelling your search enquiries properly will prevent all this hassle ;)

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

Who else will benefit? People that throw a fit whenever they see an error message. Which is a huge majority of casual net browsers. Browser errors are not user friendly, if you don't understand them and why you're seeing them they can be confusing, so it's easier for a lot of people to have them replaced with something far more useful.

As for the "thin end of the wedge" argument, I'm a proponent of the wait and see approach, where you judge on not what COULD happen, but what actually is happening. Far too many people throw their toys out the pram based on remote possibilities rather than on what's actually happening. If we spent our lives worrying about what could happen then when would we get time for anything else?

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

Traduk actually said what I was thinking, but didn't say out of fear of looking paranoid. Thanks Traduk :)

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

Do you take me for a fool.
Why can you not see that there is nothing benevolent about this at all. It is merely a ruse to get eyeballs staring at a page of adverts to line the pockets of VM.

No more no less.

You can paint it any colour you want but it still smells.

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

And the entire reason they offer internet access is to line their own pockets as well, that you actually benefit from them doing so clearly doesn't matter.

Best just cancel all your services! Don't want to be giving them money afterall!

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

Your argument appears to be based on apparent paranoid speculation on the part of others?. Perhaps you are not aware of the long standing speculation as to which side of the fence VM will actually take regarding Phorm etc. The unknown of their eventual choice has been hanging around for the best part of two years during which time they have said nothing, then said no way and recently maybe.

There is nothing remote, possibility wise, regarding the ongoing assessment of third party advertising add-ons and I suspect that given half a chance they would impose it ASAP. My toys will get thrown out of the pram when and if they implement Phorm or something comparable but in preparation I am doing no more than maintaining a watching brief and avoiding any contractual obligations.

The "wait and see" approach especially in the face of a known prospective change would strike me as apathy. VM will weigh up what they can do against possible churn and my fear is that the DNS hijack which is no big deal may embolden them to the point whereby they make a critical error in judgement.

I actually want VM to thrive and carry on giving me the services I enjoy. If Phorm is implemented it may be that churn will finish them off for all customers. Their SEC filings show ongoing cash raising just to help pay interest on existing debt. One major trip and\or slip and they could be history which does nobody any good.

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

By your falling back on such well worn rhetoric I take it you have run out of coherent argument to promote the obvious moral shortcomings of VM's dubious, behind the scenes activities.

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

If anyone is interested some additional FAQs have been posted (sorry if it's already been linked to)

http://www.virginmedia.com/myvirginm...k.php#add_faqs

Covers most of the issues raised on this thread I think (including VPN technical stuff)

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

yep it tries to get every one used to the you have to opt out idea that all companies want the norm to be ;)


just because they dont use data doesnt alter the point that they could and they should have given the option first

or are they going to stat fitting BB in house just so the customer can see what they didnt know they would want but with the option to opt out once they see it there ;)

which they fitted by the way by using the duplicated front door key they had but that ist a problem as they didnt at this point action the option they had to search your house nor did they let any of their parters in to see what you get up to either and the posibilty they could later isnt a proble as they ssy they wont in future action that option either a

any one tell i am in a sarcastic mood tonight lol

oh any one whose read the FAQ will understand the above :p

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

Ve vill opt you into our money making schemes because you are all too stoopid to understand vat is good for you.

By Order oF Virgin Media.

Zeig Heil.

:rolleyes:

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

thanks a lot... finally been able to switch this crap off, 100% of the time it didn't work properly.

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

this thread was from 2009 :erm:

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

It took him a while to work it out....:D

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

Plus Zee had to locate the thread in archives so probably knew it was an old thread.;)

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

probably came from a google search, however when doing this, i always check the date first ;)

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

I expect this is the same as opendns redirect system that is used for failed lookups. So anyone not using VM's dns servers wouldnt be affected anyway.

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

Doesn't matter he got the help he needed.;)

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

Note You will need to opt out again if you replace your modem, will apply to all computers on your internet connection.

To opt out go to:
https://my.virginmedia.com/advancederrorsearch/settings

I have just got a new modem from NTL / Virgin Media

I forgot all about NTL's url hijacking. :mad:

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

Way to resurrect a dead thread :rolleyes:

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

I check mine once a month to to make sure i have not been opted back in :tu:

Its good to remind users about the ability to turn it off. To be honest it should be an OPT IN service instead of a OPT OUT service because it makes money for the supplier.

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

Nothing wrong with that provided you have something new to add..besides pointing out it's an old thread.;)

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

I was unaware of this until the thread was reopened. I checked and it seems that I am opted out. How often should one check? Presumably I'll be redirected to an ad laden page if it changes?

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

I think that is a good idea.

Yes it should be an OPT IN service, and yes it is good to remind users about the ability to turn it off.

See link above to opt out of NTL / Virgin Media's hijacking.

I now have the link Bookmarked.

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

If you don't use VM DNS you never come across this problem anyway :)

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

Agreed.

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

opendns do the same.

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

Was that always the case? I remember using it years ago, but I can't remember them ever throwing up a search page, at least, not until recently.

Personally, I use Google's DNS IP's (8.8.8.8/8.8.4.4)

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

They do, but in fairness, most people don't pay OpenDNS for their service and they've got to make money somewhere. OpenDNS also offers quite an extensive filtering system that should you opt in to using it, does a good job of blocking various sites people may not want to see.

I believe the objection here is that people DO pay VM for a service, and VM are doing this as well. VM don't (AFAIK) offer the option of filtering though.

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

Google's DNS service is free and does not do this, nor is there even a paid-for option.

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

Fair enough. However, Google do have other sources of income. I was just making the point the OpenDNS does it for income to survive, so your point about Google's lack of a paid for option is largely irrelevant.

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

And I think "hijack" is a very pejorative/subjective term anyway. If I can't get to the right page for some reason, isn't it a good thing to have some help/suggestions rather than just a useless blank page?

Re: Virgin Media Hijack customers browser search options
 

No, because it breaks numerous protocols, and established technoliogies that rely on getting a proper NXDOMAIN error back (what you are calling a blank page).