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-   -   Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33652459)

Jon T 12-07-2009 09:28
Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dgardner (Post 34831886)
But would you give them a slap with a 2 kilo steel weight?
How do you know he was goading the the teacher etc?
From someone I work with that had kids in the class when it happened. They were texting her after telling her what happened.

BTW, I don't think it's a good idea to discuss this too much, too much information read by a potential jury member could predujice a fair trail.

Nidge 12-07-2009 09:57
Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by scrotnig (Post 34831515)
Never ceases to amaze me that anyone ever thought, or still thinks, it's acceptable for a grown adult to repeatedly clobber a small child with a big stick.

Thank the Lord that it's illegal now. An otrageous and barbaric practice.

That's what I mean about the PC brigade.

---------- Post added at 08:57 ---------- Previous post was at 08:52 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggy J (Post 34831563)
So have you ever seen the cane administered in school?I'm guessing not.:rolleyes:

1-6 strokes of the cane on the palm of the hand.

Not CLOBBERING.:rolleyes:
We used to get it on the backside, 6 of the best and you never did anything wrong for a few months after that. We couldn't sit down when we were given 6 of the best.

Russ 12-07-2009 10:19
Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 
So all of society's problems are due to the removal of using weapons on children as punishment in schools. Awesome logic.

RizzyKing 12-07-2009 12:39
Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 
No Russ not just because of that but it is a part of when the problem started.

Russ 12-07-2009 13:17
Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 
so all society's problems started with the removal of the cane as punishment in schools? If not what else should we be blaming?

Maggy 12-07-2009 13:21
Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ B (Post 34831979)
so all society's problems started with the removal of the cane as punishment in schools? If not what else should we be blaming?
Society?Parents?Police?Teachers?This Government?The last Government?Christians?Muslims?Immigrants?The PC do gooders,liberal,whishy washy brigade?The Media?The EU?

Take yer pick?:D

alferret 12-07-2009 13:52
Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dgardner (Post 34831886)
SNIP!
How do you know he was goading the the teacher etc?
If you had read my earlier posts you would know where I got my information from.

Corporal punishment should be brought back into all secondary schools. When I was a school we had to endure a ruler across the knuckles, slipper across the arse (think my head of year had this as a fetish it was his favourite form of punishment and I was on the receiving end far to often) and the cane, dependant on severity of the alleged infraction it was either across the palm or the backside.
Parents should understand that kids only get this sort of punishment if something warrants it, its ok saying "you touch my kid then you got me to deal with" but what does that show the kid? All it shows is the parent isnt in control of themselves and its ok to retaliate against someone being chastised.
Regardless of the discussions that are going on the teacher was wrong to do what he done, the kid was wrong for also doing what he done and two wrongs dont make a right, everything will come out in the wash.

Nidge 12-07-2009 16:16
Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 
I got caught skipping school by the teacher one day, he sent a letter out to my mum and dad, my dad went up to school to see the head of year, I was called into the office and my dad said to the teacher what sort of punishment are you going to give him? The teacher said I'm going to cane him. My dad said that's fine but I want to watch you cane him? The teacher looked shocked and said OK, I got 3 right across the backside. My dad said that's not hard enough, he took the cane off the teacher and gave me 3 more across the backside, the teacher stood there with a smug grin across his face, you could see the look of a result in his smile. I never skipped school again. After that for some strange reason I buckled down in school and got some good exam results.

When I left school and got a job I used to visit this teacher while he was in school teaching lessons, he never let me forget that day when my dad caned me in front of him, the above teacher was strict but fair, if he ever went past you in school and you had your top button undone he used to grab you by the tie and pull it up till you went blue in the face. This is the sort of teaching we need now along with the cane.

Russ 12-07-2009 16:21
Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nidge (Post 34832068)
if he ever went past you in school and you had your top button undone he used to grab you by the tie and pull it up till you went blue in the face. This is the sort of teaching we need now along with the cane.
You call that 'fair'? Sounds more like bullying to me.

soicky 12-07-2009 17:00
Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ B (Post 34832072)
You call that 'fair'? Sounds more like bullying to me.
:clap::clap:

---------- Post added at 16:00 ---------- Previous post was at 15:59 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nidge (Post 34832068)
I got caught skipping school by the teacher one day, he sent a letter out to my mum and dad, my dad went up to school to see the head of year, I was called into the office and my dad said to the teacher what sort of punishment are you going to give him? The teacher said I'm going to cane him. My dad said that's fine but I want to watch you cane him? The teacher looked shocked and said OK, I got 3 right across the backside. My dad said that's not hard enough, he took the cane off the teacher and gave me 3 more across the backside, the teacher stood there with a smug grin across his face, you could see the look of a result in his smile. I never skipped school again. After that for some strange reason I buckled down in school and got some good exam results.

When I left school and got a job I used to visit this teacher while he was in school teaching lessons, he never let me forget that day when my dad caned me in front of him, the above teacher was strict but fair, if he ever went past you in school and you had your top button undone he used to grab you by the tie and pull it up till you went blue in the face. This is the sort of teaching we need now along with the cane.
Society has changed, caning will never be brought back.

Nidge 12-07-2009 18:07
Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ B (Post 34832072)
You call that 'fair'? Sounds more like bullying to me.
With quotes like that is there any wonder this contry is going down the pan?

---------- Post added at 17:07 ---------- Previous post was at 17:04 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by soicky (Post 34832100)
:clap::clap:

---------- Post added at 16:00 ---------- Previous post was at 15:59 ----------



Society has changed, caning will never be brought back.

If that day never comes people like you who are against the cane and any form of corporal punishment will have to live with the fact that this country is in the gutter when it comes to children. You know it's getting bad when your local MacDoanlds now employs bouncers to keep the kids out.

Russ 12-07-2009 18:14
Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nidge (Post 34832131)
With quotes like that is there any wonder this contry is going down the pan?
If an older or bigger pupil did that as 'punishment' to another student it would be bullying. So why is it not the same when a teacher does it when other methods are available? I mean come on, almost choking a child because his top button wasn't done up?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nidge (Post 34832131)
You know it's getting bad when your local MacDoanlds now employs bouncers to keep the kids out.
And that's due to the cane being removed from schools is it?

Nidge 12-07-2009 18:37
Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ B (Post 34832135)


And that's due to the cane being removed from schools is it?
Yes it spreads out of school onto the streets.

lucy7 12-07-2009 18:45
Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 
National service, lets fetch that back!;)

For the girls too.

rogerdraig 12-07-2009 18:52
Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nidge (Post 34832131)
With quotes like that is there any wonder this contry is going down the pan?

---------- Post added at 17:07 ---------- Previous post was at 17:04 ----------




If that day never comes people like you who are against the cane and any form of corporal punishment will have to live with the fact that this country is in the gutter when it comes to children. You know it's getting bad when your local MacDoanlds now employs bouncers to keep the kids out.
i am not against parents using it to discipline their own children and would support their right too

but i will never support its use in school it is so open to abuse and would be abused no matter what rules were put in place for its use

schools should use their right to expel pupils but often they don't go down that route because they loose money by doing so

they often instead just exclude them often illegally and with out getting the other agencies involved that would help

so you end up with kids getting no help no schooling and just getting more uncontrollable

see

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/7024005.stm

the parents in this case were given practical no help because the school decided not to record most of his absences

http://www.teachingexpertise.com/art...explained-1555

this points out that unofficial exclusions are illegal

its all very well saying its parents fault ( though it can be ) when the schools don't follow the rules properly and don't trigger the help out there for them and the parents

lucy7 12-07-2009 18:57
Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 
The use of a cane Roger is open to abuse in the home as well.
I was a victim of that.

Nidge 12-07-2009 19:19
Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucy7 (Post 34832165)
National service, lets fetch that back!;)

For the girls too.
They still have it in Turkey and in Greece, their Children are polite and well behaved.

Next door to me I have 3 Polish children who's manners are impeccable, every time I see them they say good morning and good afternoon, they do the same with my missus good morning and good afternoon. They go to a school a few doors away from my house infact the same school as my partners young son, I asked my partners son if the children were OK in school? He said everyone like to play with them. If only our kids were like them.

rogerdraig 12-07-2009 19:42
Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucy7 (Post 34832178)
The use of a cane Roger is open to abuse in the home as well.
I was a victim of that.
yep it can be but that has always been something you can get arrested for ( though admittedly the police were very reluctant to do so but any punishment that could be seen as abh was always prosecutable

but taking it away as a means of control from parents is not the way

( lol defending the other side for a bit ;) )

i blame the NSPCC for their FULL STOP campaign and the ever present social workers for demonising this

there is no comparison between some father belting seven bells out of a child with his belt or fists which should lead them to prison and a smack on the bottom with the hand to enforce a message to a young child

but even with that support i see no help with smacking a child once its old enough to reason with as it shouldn't really be being used as a punishment it should be being used to teach

as in i will and have smacked a child's hand for going near a fire though some social workers would say not to but the child learned with 2 smacks not to touch it much quicker than if i had tried to explain it to this by talking to them at two years old

i have seen mother at nursery crying because they had smacked their child for similar reasons because they think social will take their kids if they find out

this is where it is going wrong schools dont ever need the cane but parents need to be shown how to use discipline correctly and fairly with children before they are 5

equally when parents abuse that right they should be dealt with with the full force of the law but at the moment they know not what they can do

Nidge 12-07-2009 19:53
Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 
It all boils down to the sink estate culture and lack of cane within the school system.

lucy7 12-07-2009 20:17
Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 
I get what you are saying Roger.

I can clearly remeber mine saying to me "you cant touch me or I will ring Esther!"

They still did get a smack from time to time though, never a cane or slipper, just my hand.
I only hit them in control of myself though, and only when the talking avenue had not worked. Smacking in my house was a rare occassion.
I am not proud that I smacked them, and if I had to parent again, I do feel I would do it the same way though.

My husband, the childrens Dad hit my son once when he accidently stood on my dog and the dog yelped, he lashed into him big style, left several marks on him and hand prints that took over a week to go.
That was out of control smacking and not even disipline.
I was horrified and it was the nail in the coffin on the marriage after that.

I have just shown my lad this before I post it, and he has just followed the thread.
He says he agrees with me that the fear of punishment would probaly curb bad behavior in schools, but not stop it.

Peter_ 12-07-2009 20:22
Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nidge (Post 34832199)
It all boils down to the sink estate culture and lack of cane within the school system.
You have *******s in every school in the country regardless of class or area so very wrong to label it as a council estate issue.

rogerdraig 12-07-2009 20:23
Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucy7 (Post 34832217)
I get what you are saying Roger.

I can clearly remeber mine saying to me "you cant touch me or I will ring Esther!"

They still did get a smack from time to time though, never a cane or slipper, just my hand.
I only hit them in control of myself though, and only when the talking avenue had not worked. Smacking in my house was a rare occassion.
I am not proud that I smacked them, and if I had to parent again, I do feel I would do it the same way though.

My husband, the childrens Dad hit my son once when he accidently stood on my dog and the dog yelped, he lashed into him big style, left several marks on him and hand prints that took over a week to go.
That was out of control smacking and not even disipline.
I was horrified and it was the nail in the coffin on the marriage after that.

I have just shown my lad this before I post it, and he has just followed the thread.
He says he agrees with me that the fear of punishment would probaly curb bad behavior in schools, but not stop it.
that is the key control you should almost never smack a child when you are angry unless its to emphasise something immediate and dangerous like a child running into the road

and although i give permission to those i trust to do this to my child i have to know them and their values very well before i do

and i am afraid a school would never meet those standards ;)

Arthurgray50@blu 12-07-2009 20:30
Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 
I heard that when the teacher appeared in court, most of his ex-pupils were in the public gallery to give support, and going onto the subject about being goaded, there is only so much a person can take, in a school or any workplace.

In a job l had that l was at for two and half years, l had taken a lot of verbal from my employer, l cracked and push him up against the wall, and theatened to knock his lights out, it happens everywhere.

Hugh 12-07-2009 20:39
Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 
The call for the return of the cane in this thread appears to be based on the assumption the kids were the problem - but if the evidence shows the teacher just lost it, due to recent stress-related health problems, where does this leave the "bring back the cane" premise?

btw, when I went to school in one of the roughest areas of Glasgow, the tawse (belt) was used - it never seemed to deter the tough nuts, who saw it as a badge of honour to be belted, showing they could take it.

[img]Download Failed (1)[/img]

---------- Post added at 19:39 ---------- Previous post was at 19:38 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu (Post 34832237)
I heard that when the teacher appeared in court, most of his ex-pupils were in the public gallery to give support, and going onto the subject about being goaded, there is only so much a person can take, in a school or any workplace.

In a job l had that l was at for two and half years, l had taken a lot of verbal from my employer, l cracked and push him up against the wall, and theatened to knock his lights out, it happens everywhere.
But what do you think would have happened if you had clouted him on the head with a metal weight, and put him into intensive care, Arthur?

How can anybody justify putting someone in hospital for being cheeky?

lucy7 12-07-2009 20:45
Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by foreverwar (Post 34832244)
The call for the return of the cane in this thread appears to be based on the assumption the kids were the problem - but if the evidence shows the teacher just lost it, due to recent stress-related health problems, where does this leave the "bring back the cane" premise?

btw, when I went to school in one of the roughest areas of Glasgow, the tawse (belt) was used - it never seemed to deter the tough nuts, who saw it as a badge of honour to be belted, showing they could take it.

http://www.archivist.f2s.com/cpa/instruments/tawse.JPG

---------- Post added at 19:39 ---------- Previous post was at 19:38 ----------


But what do you think would have happened if you had clouted him on the head with a metal weight, and put him into intensive care, Arthur?

How can anybody justify putting someone in hospital for being cheeky?


That strap thing looks bad.

Response to second comment....No.

Arthurgray50@blu 12-07-2009 20:52
Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 
The biggest major problem in our schools today, are the fact, there is NO punishment given out for problem kids, that is why you have bullying, and yes it does go on, even today. I was bullied for FIVE years, and that was 30 years ago, The teachers found out by accident, and the child was given six smacks of the cane, in front of the whole school, This is what is needed today, the heads of all schools, should be given the nod to punish kids within the school hours.

lucy7 12-07-2009 20:58
Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu (Post 34832257)
The biggest major problem in our schools today, are the fact, there is NO punishment given out for problem kids, that is why you have bullying, and yes it does go on, even today. I was bullied for FIVE years, and that was 30 years ago, The teachers found out by accident, and the child was given six smacks of the cane, in front of the whole school, This is what is needed today, the heads of all schools, should be given the nod to punish kids within the school hours.


Sorry to hear that Arthur, not nice at all.
Did it stop him after he was caned?

Hugh 12-07-2009 21:07
Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu (Post 34832257)
The biggest major problem in our schools today, are the fact, there is NO punishment given out for problem kids, that is why you have bullying, and yes it does go on, even today. I was bullied for FIVE years, and that was 30 years ago, The teachers found out by accident, and the child was given six smacks of the cane, in front of the whole school, This is what is needed today, the heads of all schools, should be given the nod to punish kids within the school hours.
Arthur, sorry to hear you were bullied, as it's not an experience anyone should have to go through, but you appear to be contradicting yourself - you seem to be proposing that caning/slippering/etc would stop bullying, but then you state that when caning/slippering/etc was in place at the school you attended, you were still bullied (for five years); it didn't appear to deter the bully.

rogerdraig 12-07-2009 21:13
Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu (Post 34832257)
The biggest major problem in our schools today, are the fact, there is NO punishment given out for problem kids, that is why you have bullying, and yes it does go on, even today. I was bullied for FIVE years, and that was 30 years ago, The teachers found out by accident, and the child was given six smacks of the cane, in front of the whole school, This is what is needed today, the heads of all schools, should be given the nod to punish kids within the school hours.
i tend to think that that shows the cane doesn't work unless you feel one punishment makes up for those 5 years ?

its not the cane that was needed but better understanding of children an the realisation sadly lacking in many that kids will bully others if they can

too many seem to think it just doesn't happen or at least not in their school

far better i would say that they caught it earlier than had a cane available

Arthurgray50@blu 12-07-2009 22:00
Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 
Let me explain something, When the bullying started, it started when l first went to the school and five years later, we had to write an essay, on the good things and bad things at school, as we were leaving the school, and that is when it came out, bullying was rife at my school, you had to pay protection money to kids, everything, they waited outside the school to take you 'dinner money' they did everything. I was always warned, if you told the form master, you would have to pay double. The headmaster read my essay, and that is when the boy was found out, and he ran a gang, and they were making a fortune, but there again, the teachers in my day WERE allowed to punish kids, and it stopped, but then you get a new year come in and it starts again in a new form.

I firmly believe that punishment in schools, has to be brought in, it is no good these do gooders, saying do not slap kids, just take things off them for a few days, detention doesn't deter them, as they will find something else to cause a problem.

Teachers are human after all, l can assure you, l would not like to be one.

Mr Angry 12-07-2009 22:06
Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu (Post 34832305)
Teachers are human after all, l can assure you, l would not like to be one.
Why, what have you got against humans?

rogerdraig 12-07-2009 22:23
Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu (Post 34832305)
Let me explain something, When the bullying started, it started when l first went to the school and five years later, we had to write an essay, on the good things and bad things at school, as we were leaving the school, and that is when it came out, bullying was rife at my school, you had to pay protection money to kids, everything, they waited outside the school to take you 'dinner money' they did everything. I was always warned, if you told the form master, you would have to pay double. The headmaster read my essay, and that is when the boy was found out, and he ran a gang, and they were making a fortune, but there again, the teachers in my day WERE allowed to punish kids, and it stopped, but then you get a new year come in and it starts again in a new form.

I firmly believe that punishment in schools, has to be brought in, it is no good these do gooders, saying do not slap kids, just take things off them for a few days, detention doesn't deter them, as they will find something else to cause a problem.

Teachers are human after all, l can assure you, l would not like to be one.
it started again hardly a ringing endorsement of its efficacy then

yes i know teachers are human i run ( i get no payment for doing so ) A charity based nursery

but when you talk to headmasters and many teachers they proclaim its not a problem in THEIR school which we sensible people all know is nonsense

and that is the attitude that lets bullying continue not the lack of a cane

Hugh 12-07-2009 22:24
Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu (Post 34832305)
Let me explain something, When the bullying started, it started when l first went to the school and five years later, we had to write an essay, on the good things and bad things at school, as we were leaving the school, and that is when it came out, bullying was rife at my school, you had to pay protection money to kids, everything, they waited outside the school to take you 'dinner money' they did everything. I was always warned, if you told the form master, you would have to pay double. The headmaster read my essay, and that is when the boy was found out, and he ran a gang, and they were making a fortune, but there again, the teachers in my day WERE allowed to punish kids, and it stopped, but then you get a new year come in and it starts again in a new form.

I firmly believe that punishment in schools, has to be brought in, it is no good these do gooders, saying do not slap kids, just take things off them for a few days, detention doesn't deter them, as they will find something else to cause a problem.

Teachers are human after all, l can assure you, l would not like to be one.
Arthur, did they have the cane/slipper/belt/some form of corporal punishment at the school you attended, and if they did, did it stop the bullying at your school?

Maggy 12-07-2009 22:35
Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nidge (Post 34832068)
I got caught skipping school by the teacher one day, he sent a letter out to my mum and dad, my dad went up to school to see the head of year, I was called into the office and my dad said to the teacher what sort of punishment are you going to give him? The teacher said I'm going to cane him. My dad said that's fine but I want to watch you cane him? The teacher looked shocked and said OK, I got 3 right across the backside. My dad said that's not hard enough, he took the cane off the teacher and gave me 3 more across the backside, the teacher stood there with a smug grin across his face, you could see the look of a result in his smile. I never skipped school again. After that for some strange reason I buckled down in school and got some good exam results.

When I left school and got a job I used to visit this teacher while he was in school teaching lessons, he never let me forget that day when my dad caned me in front of him, the above teacher was strict but fair, if he ever went past you in school and you had your top button undone he used to grab you by the tie and pull it up till you went blue in the face. This is the sort of teaching we need now along with the cane.
No it is not..That's vindictive.:(

rogerdraig 12-07-2009 22:59
Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggy J (Post 34832326)
No it is not..That's vindictive.:(
i agree i saw the cane used repeatedly on the same pupils picked on by the same teachers time and time again mainly because they were not as smart as the rest of us

those teacher were not good teachers and coincidently were the ones who left once it was banned and the school was better for their loss

for every story of success you can find many more who were picked on and bullied by teachers via this barbaric method of teaching

Arthurgray50@blu 12-07-2009 23:23
Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 
Hi Foreverwar, At our school they had the slipper, and if they came back for more they received the cane, across the knuckles. they did not come back for more after that.

All teachers got respect from the pupils, l always remember we had a teacher called David Cocup who was a PE teacher, who had his own form, and one day in the playground, a elder boy hit him with a cricket bat, with a great force, and instead of pupils laughing and shouting out ' bundle ', the pupils turned on the kid, who was known as the school hardnut, and gave him what for.

Yes they di have school punishment, and you knew it.

Maggy 12-07-2009 23:28
Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogermevans (Post 34832344)
i agree i saw the cane used repeatedly on the same pupils picked on by the same teachers time and time again mainly because they were not as smart as the rest of us

those teacher were not good teachers and coincidently were the ones who left once it was banned and the school was better for their loss

for every story of success you can find many more who were picked on and bullied by teachers via this barbaric method of teaching
Actually the same pupils getting caned in my school had as much to do with the inability to learn the rules.However as the canings all took place in public there was no danger of victimisation or of a beating as everyone could see all that took place. There was also no use of the cane on the buttocks..only on the hands.The lessons were learned by everyone else watching..the majority of which never got caned because they mostly stuck to the rules.

It was the throwing of blackboard rubbers across the room that constituted bullying.Luckily the teacher that did that was stopped when he actually broke a window.:D

However as I've said several times the cane has gone..we have to use different tactics to maintain discipline.Arguing about it is just an academic discussion and really a waste of time.It isn't coming back.

So Arthur move on.

Stuart 13-07-2009 01:13
Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nidge (Post 34832183)
They still have it in Turkey and in Greece, their Children are polite and well behaved.

Not always. Turkish and Greek kids are like ours. You get good ones and you get bad ones.

---------- Post added at 00:13 ---------- Previous post was at 00:03 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu (Post 34832370)
Hi Foreverwar, At our school they had the slipper, and if they came back for more they received the cane, across the knuckles. they did not come back for more after that.

All teachers got respect from the pupils, l always remember we had a teacher called David Cocup who was a PE teacher, who had his own form, and one day in the playground, a elder boy hit him with a cricket bat, with a great force, and instead of pupils laughing and shouting out ' bundle ', the pupils turned on the kid, who was known as the school hardnut, and gave him what for.

Yes they di have school punishment, and you knew it.
I have to admit, while they didn't use the Cane or slipper at my school, they did have strict discipline. While my School was far from perfect (I suffered bullying due to my voice and when I reported it was told that it would be character building for me to deal with it and that the school would do nothing), and there were kids that tried it on, we had no serious problems.

Why? Because we knew that if we caused serious problems, we would be sent to either the head of school, deputy head or head of department. All of whom would punish us. Usually by making us perform a boring or horrible task (our head of science always had us clean his rugby boots inside and out for instance) and would stand over us while we did it.

Jimmy-J 13-07-2009 01:17
Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 
The slipper and cane didn't work on me, I had it numerous times on the hands and the arse!

RizzyKing 13-07-2009 09:51
Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 
I think the problem here is that today there is little for the kids that set out to cause trouble to fear there is little or no retribution for their actions and in that environment people want something. It is ok to constantly harp about abuse towards kids but the fact is as always the vast vast majority of people are not abusers they would never commit abuse but they do want to have options in the area of control.

How many times have we heard numerous people\groups talk about a fear of some of our youth and the problems from that. This is not something that applies i would say to even 85% of kids today but that 15% are a problem and the influence they are having is a bigger problem that we are not addressing and dealing with.

I am not talking about a world where every kid walks about in fear of some kind of beating for the smallest infraction they might do but a world where we protect everyone from that element that is hell bent on disruption. It all stems from this attitude of understanding and the "there must be a reason for it" thinking rather then the acceptence that sometimes some people are just that way inclined and if there is nothing in place to stop them they will continue to push and push.

We see it in a few areas these days our approach to kids the way our system tends to deal with the criminal element and while it is all well and good to worry about their rights and welfare you do so at the expense of the majority who are not a problem do not cause disruption but are constantly victims of it from others we don't deal with.

We have to get back to a position of shunning those who disrupt who harm in anyway others and put them in the background where they belong and refocus on the people who are doing their best to achieve and contribute. Right now there seems to be more reason to be disruptive then to behave and that is a systemic problem which we have got to deal with putting the attention into those who do behave.

Hugh 13-07-2009 09:57
Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu (Post 34832370)
Hi Foreverwar, At our school they had the slipper, and if they came back for more they received the cane, across the knuckles. they did not come back for more after that.

All teachers got respect from the pupils, l always remember we had a teacher called David Cocup who was a PE teacher, who had his own form, and one day in the playground, a elder boy hit him with a cricket bat, with a great force, and instead of pupils laughing and shouting out ' bundle ', the pupils turned on the kid, who was known as the school hardnut, and gave him what for.

Yes they di have school punishment, and you knew it.
Arthur, I assumed they did, but preferred to have confirmation from you, rather than basing our discussions on assumptions.

The reason I was looking for confirmation was that you don't seem to realise the oxymoronic nature of your proposition, where you state that teachers need to be able to administer corporal punishment, as this would stop bullying and cheeking, but then you go on to state that in your school, where corporal punishment was administered, not only did long-term (five years) bullying occur, but you mention above that a pupil assaulted a teacher with a cricket bat - corporal punishment didn't seem to work at your school, according to the things you have posted. ;)

LondonRoad 13-07-2009 11:49
Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Product 13 (Post 34832437)
The slipper and cane didn't work on me, I had it numerous times on the hands and the arse!
Was that at school or were you trying out the S&M scene. :) :angel:

Stuart 13-07-2009 12:15
Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by harmitage (Post 34832589)
Was that at school or were you trying out the S&M scene. :) :angel:

Reminded me of something I heard Humphry Lyttleton say on I'm Sorry, I Haven't A Clue over the weekend..

He said "Nanny always used to use physical punishment on me. Never did me any harm. It almost made me late getting here this afternoon though".

Russ 13-07-2009 13:57
Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by harmitage (Post 34832589)
Was that at school or were you trying out the S&M scene. :) :angel:
Careful! You'll have Graham back here, defending the S&M sub-culture...

rogerdraig 13-07-2009 15:17
Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 
please sir can i have another



:angel:

soicky 13-07-2009 17:54
Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 
Theres a game kids play where you get a ruler and smack it on the other persons hand as hard as you can. Each take turns until one person gives up and the other wins. This is the stuff kids do these days. Society has changed and caning will never be brought back.

moaningmags 13-07-2009 18:40
Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 
We used to do something similar with playing cards. The card you picked was the amount of times you got rapped on the knuckles with the deck, we called it snipes.
Any update on the boy's condition?

nffc 13-07-2009 19:17
Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 
Yes, he was released last night.

Thankfully... because whatever he did, it can't deserve serious brain damage or death. He probably just pushed his luck a bit.

soicky 13-07-2009 19:33
Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by moaningmags (Post 34832924)
We used to do something similar with playing cards. The card you picked was the amount of times you got rapped on the knuckles with the deck, we called it snipes.
Any update on the boy's condition?
i remember playing snipes too. rulers are easier to get hold of than a pack of cards so more people played with the rulers.

LondonRoad 13-07-2009 20:16
Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by moaningmags (Post 34832924)
We used to do something similar with playing cards. The card you picked was the amount of times you got rapped on the knuckles with the deck, we called it snipes.
Any update on the boy's condition?
Good old snipes. Playing cards are far more vicious than a ruler. Rulers will eventually bruise. Snipes with playing cards, administered correctly, draws blood. Lots of it in my case since I was rubbish at it.;)

Maggy 13-07-2009 20:20
Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 
Again we are wandering away from the subject gents.

soicky 13-07-2009 20:25
Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by harmitage (Post 34832989)
Good old snipes. Playing cards are far more vicious than a ruler. Rulers will eventually bruise. Snipes with playing cards, administered correctly, draws blood. Lots of it in my case since I was rubbish at it.;)
lol, trust me from experiance after 20 or so turns you can get a large red line on your hand which eventually opens, thats when you hope it doesn't cut through your main vein.

edit: my bad maggy

Jimmy-J 13-07-2009 21:20
Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by harmitage (Post 34832589)
Was that at school or were you trying out the S&M scene. :) :angel:
I wish! No, the slipper was used in primary school, if anyone had been out of order for the first time, they got to smell the slipper, and the second time they actually tasted it on the backside.

The cane came along in secondary school, and as for the belt, I was given that a few times at home. Oh, them were the days. :)

Hugh 29-04-2010 20:45
Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 
Update
Quote:
A teacher who struck a pupil with a dumbbell has been acquitted of attempted murder and causing grievous bodily harm with intent.....

....Harvey had returned to work after being signed off with depression and stress for several months.

But the court heard he had been mocked by pupils moments before the attack.

He had denied attempted murder and causing grievous bodily harm with intent, but admitted a charge of causing grievous bodily harm without intent.

The jury at Nottingham Crown Court took less than two hours to clear the father-of-two.

The court heard that he shouted "die, die, die" as he bludgeoned the boy with the weight after the pupil swore at him.

It emerged during the four-day trial that pupils at the school were trying to wind up Harvey so his reaction could be caught on a camcorder being used secretly by a girl in the class.

The footage was then to be passed around the school as a way of "humiliating" the teacher.
Still no excuse for what he did, but gives a bit more of the whole picture

Arthurgray50@blu 29-04-2010 21:37
Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 
He was aquited by a jury, and that is good enought for me, ok he should not have done what he did, But NO teacher should have to put up with the daily crap they take from rowdy kids, Ok its there job to teach, but kids do take the teachers to the limit and this teacher snapped.

Hom3r 29-04-2010 22:02
Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 
If schools still had corporal punishment, I doubt that the pupil in question would have been the annoying thug/brat/pain in the arse/waste of air/******* would have been such.

It was stopped in my school, then we had all the "*******s" from a school which closed and all the pupil were school to the remainder.

These "*******s run riot and got away with it everytime, several of them had been expelled from virtually every school in town, and as such couldn't be expelled anymore. They made my life hell.

IMHO I'm glad the teacher was found not guilty. It must prove that people are getting fed up with these annoying thugs/brats/pains in the arse/waste of air/*******s running riot.

alferret 29-04-2010 22:08
Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 
I'm happy with the verdict. My stepson goes to that school & I think its disgusting the way the kids in that lesson baited him into snapping. Also so much BS has been said in the papers regarding the actual event its unreal (but thats papers for you)

Arthurgray50@blu 29-04-2010 22:36
Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 
I strongly believe that do gooders are to blame for this, corporal punishment HAS AND MUST RETURN to school, the cane, slipper, or ruler, before someone is killed, and it will happen, a teacher MUST have full permission to punish a child in school, l was caned several times in school, and if my dad found out, l would have the biggest hiding going, l was brought up to respect other people.

alferret 29-04-2010 22:54
Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu (Post 35010709)
l was brought up to respect other people.
You & me both arfur, I got the slipper on a weekly basis, my old head of year teacher Mr Pollard had a fetish about giving kids the slipper I think I was his favourite ;)

But its true kids now days have zero respect for their teachers, neighbours or parents. We need to do something but in a PC world it aint gonna happen.

Flyboy 30-04-2010 00:44
Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by alferret (Post 35010758)
You & me both arfur, I got the slipper on a weekly basis, my old head of year teacher Mr Pollard had a fetish about giving kids the slipper I think I was his favourite ;)

But its true kids now days have zero respect for their teachers, neighbours or parents. We need to do something but in a PC world it aint gonna happen.
One very good reason for not having physical punishment in schools.

Chris 30-04-2010 00:46
Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 
You do have serious difficulty with irony and flippancy, don't you ...

dgardner 30-04-2010 06:25
Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 
Well it looks as if British justice has prevailed.

So as I don't have a 6 pound dumb bell can I use
a hammer if I want to attempt to murder a child?

Also i do feel quite stressed but am not a teacher
so would that go against me?

alferret 30-04-2010 06:48
Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dgardner (Post 35010957)
So as I don't have a 6 pound dumb bell can I use
a hammer if I want to attempt to murder a child?
He didnt attempt to murder the kid, because murder in the eyes of the law is premeditated http://www.thefreedictionary.com/premeditated, so yea if you go hammer in hand and planned to then that would be murder, he didnt so thats why the charge was attempted manslaughter which is a different deffinition http://www.thefreedictionary.com/manslaughter .


No one can take away whats happend or even know what was really going through Mr Harveys head at the time, but he was a well liked and respected member of the school team.

---------- Post added at 05:48 ---------- Previous post was at 05:42 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyboy (Post 35010899)
One very good reason for not having physical punishment in schools.
Not really Flyboy. He didnt try anything and the fetish part is my assumption. Its needed in schools, kids know that can get away with anything and the worse that can happen is exclusion. Hell when I was a kid if I knew I could do what I want and the most I could be punished was to be told to stay away from school for a few weeks I could have been a lot more disruptive and a major pain in the schooling system. But I knew the limits of what I could do because the punishment was there. The slipper never really hurt but a ruler across the knuckles or 6 of the cane across the arse was a deterant.

RizzyKing 30-04-2010 11:56
Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 
Right now we have children with a lot of power over adults but adults that have little over children you do not need to be a world class brain to work out that will end badly. We all support the right of children to grow up safely but that doesn't mean they should be exempt from all physical punishment and some kids like it or not actually need physical punishment to keep them in line. I was one and speak from experience god how i would have loved growing up now the power i could hve weilded over adults.

We have to realise that if you take the punishments away you take the power to control away with it and thats what we have done and thats why we have a sizeable minority of kids hell bent on making peoples lives miserable because they can and there is damn all we can do about it. I couldn't be a teacher i witness what they have to put up with everyday living across the road from a large secondary school and if i was a teacher i would have a very active night life tracking down some of the little sods i see.

Most kids are and always have been good and a benefit to society but there is and always has been that small group that are trouble and if not nipped in the bud strongly early on will go onto larger trouble making as we are seeing now. I was nipped in the bud and i turned out a lot better then i would have had if the physical punishment wasn't there and thats the thing it doesn't always have to be a negative thing being physically punished and can be very positive if done correctly.

For those whose sole argument against physical punishments is that you allow some adults to go over the top, no you don't and those adults do it regardless and the laws have always been there to dealwith people like that you should not take the option away for all because some will misuse it because lets be honest there are some that will misuse everything but we don't ban everything do we.

Flyboy 30-04-2010 13:12
Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by alferret (Post 35010958)
He didnt attempt to murder the kid, because murder in the eyes of the law is premeditated http://www.thefreedictionary.com/premeditated, so yea if you go hammer in hand and planned to then that would be murder, he didnt so thats why the charge was attempted manslaughter which is a different deffinition http://www.thefreedictionary.com/manslaughter .


No one can take away whats happend or even know what was really going through Mr Harveys head at the time, but he was a well liked and respected member of the school team.
Premeditation can be as short as three seconds. He dragged the boy into another classroom and shouted, "die, die, die," whilst beating him around the head with a three kilogram weight. That says to me that he wanted him to die and that he had time to consider the act, as a reasonable amount of time had passed for him to think about killing the child. The man was charged with attempted murder, so clearly the police and the CPS believed there was sufficient evidence to support such a charge.

Quote:
Not really Flyboy. He didnt try anything and the fetish part is my assumption. Its needed in schools, kids know that can get away with anything and the worse that can happen is exclusion. Hell when I was a kid if I knew I could do what I want and the most I could be punished was to be told to stay away from school for a few weeks I could have been a lot more disruptive and a major pain in the schooling system. But I knew the limits of what I could do because the punishment was there. The slipper never really hurt but a ruler across the knuckles or 6 of the cane across the arse was a deterant.
There is and have never been a place for physical punishment of a child in a school. Your rather flippant, although poignant, allusion to sexual predilection for such things, was all too common in some teachers, others just took pleasure in inflicting pain and having total control over someone.

alferret 30-04-2010 16:21
Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyboy (Post 35011114)
Premeditation can be as short as three seconds. He dragged the boy into another classroom and shouted, "die, die, die," whilst beating him around the head with a three kilogram weight. That says to me that he wanted him to die and that he had time to consider the act, as a reasonable amount of time had passed for him to think about killing the child. The man was charged with attempted murder, so clearly the police and the CPS believed there was sufficient evidence to support such a charge.
Whilst beating him around the head, he hit him a maximum of 3 times since when is that a beating?
Dont write for the daily mail do you, over exageration is such a daily rag trait.

---------- Post added at 15:21 ---------- Previous post was at 15:13 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyboy (Post 35011114)
There is and have never been a place for physical punishment of a child in a school. Your rather flippant, although poignant, allusion to sexual predilection for such things, was all too common in some teachers, others just took pleasure in inflicting pain and having total control over someone.
Yes there is a place for for punishment in schools, if it wernt for the fact that we are now controlled by do-gooders who have no idea about anything than the blinkered live's they lead the country wouldnt be over run by insolent oiks who know that all they have to do is cry to the old bill, make up stories and get people arrested. Why because they can and they know what they need to do to get "the job done".

As for me being flippant, so what LOL I think I am serious about important matters I just dont get so bloody anal about it do I? Unlike :erm:

As for getting back on the subject of Mr Harvey, all you know is what you haave read in the papers and seen on TV, bit like chinese whispers where as I have a little bit more info than most of the rubbish printed in the papers.

speedfreak 30-04-2010 16:35
Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 
Too late to bring back punishment in schools. These days any punishment would likely result in the teacher being shot or stabbed outside the school gates.

Once my son is old enough to go to school Id be furious if any teacher laid a finger on him, its down to the parents to discipline a child IMO More should be done to target the parents of unruly kids. Theres no way Im having my son grow up to be a scrote and if I found out he was being a cocky trouble maker at school Id sort him out without violence, I dont want any teacher to "deal" with my son in that way.

When I was younger if I was playing up Id have things taken away from me, that soon sorted me out

martyh 30-04-2010 17:36
Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 
i would have no problem with corporal punishment being bought back,and i would have no problem with teachers administering it to my son ,there is far to much of "no-one touches my son/daughter but me " that is where it all started going wrong imo because of course there are to many parents who will not discipline their little darlings and will not allow the school to do it either .

School isn't just about education in the 3r's it's meant to teach discipline and respect for other people .I was caned and slippered at school and despite warnings from the likes of flyboy and his ilk i have not turned into a raving homocidal madman and nor have any of my old school mates ,however it would appear that some of those who weren't disciplined in this fashion have turned into disrespectfull good for nothing louts so somewhere i think there is a message in all that

dgardner 30-04-2010 17:56
Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 
[QUOTE=alferret;35011224]Whilst beating him around the head, he hit him a maximum of 3 times since when is that a beating?
Dont write for the daily mail do you, over exageration is such a daily rag trait.[COLOR=Silver]

You don't consider an ADULT hitting a CHILD with a 6 pound weight a beating
however many times he did it?

Would you be ok if it was your CHILD having an ADULT beating them with a 6 pound weight while shouting DIE! DIE! DIE!

If you were walking down the street and saw an ADULT beating a CHILD what
would you do? would you try to stop them or think the CHILD deserved it?

alferret 30-04-2010 18:18
Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dgardner (Post 35011272)
You don't consider an ADULT hitting a CHILD with a 6 pound weight a beating however many times he did it?

Would you be ok if it was your CHILD having an ADULT beating them with a 6 pound weight while shouting DIE! DIE! DIE!

If you were walking down the street and saw an ADULT beating a CHILD what would you do? would you try to stop them or think the CHILD deserved it?

Hey I have an opinion so you need to chill a little, smoke some 'erb & kick back.

The situation is what it is and at no point did I say that what he did was ok or imply. Putting words in capitals is supposed to signify what exactly, that you need to shout to get your point across? Hmmmmmm :scratch:
As for asking me if it were my child, well it wasnt, that situation hasnt arose because my kids respect everybody including teachers. They were brought up that way because they have parents that care.

What would I do if I were walking down the street and saw that happen? I dont know but if it ever happens I'll be sure to PM you full details of the incident.

nffc 30-04-2010 18:29
Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dgardner (Post 35011272)
You don't consider an ADULT hitting a CHILD with a 6 pound weight a beating
however many times he did it?

Would you be ok if it was your CHILD having an ADULT beating them with a 6 pound weight while shouting DIE! DIE! DIE!

If you were walking down the street and saw an ADULT beating a CHILD what
would you do? would you try to stop them or think the CHILD deserved it?
Why is his age relevant? He was 14, not exactly a vulnerable little boy is he? And what about the other 9 times he'd been in trouble for being disruptive in class since starting secondary school?

I'm not condoning the attack but everyone has their limit and this person overstepped another person's limit, so he snapped.

martyh 30-04-2010 18:42
Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nffc (Post 35011294)
I'm not condoning the attack but everyone has their limit and this person overstepped another person's limit, so he snapped.
indeed ,and the child learnt a valuable life lesson that day ,winding people up to the point of breaking can have serious consequenses

RizzyKing 30-04-2010 22:10
Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 
I am a decent parent i think and we do administer discipline in our house and i am also painfully aware that once they are out and about with certain friends all i can do is hope they are strong enough in their own right to resist what others do. Saying that all disruptive children have bad parents is over simplyfying it a little but corporal punishment in schools where they might go a little off the rails would be better then waiting for a letter that may take a few days to arrive and punishing for something you didn't witness or know about.

If we do not trust teachers to administer corporal punishement correctly then why bother having them i mean if they are no good at discipline then whats to say they are any good at teaching full stop. This culture of "i do this and that" has to stop and we have to start trusting others in positions of authority to do the right thing at the time it is needed rather then hope it will be done by parents later on. Most kids i know that had corporal punishment in school havn't turned out that bad and despite what some think are not violent minded at all only resorting to it as a very last measure.

I have seen no evidence that violence begets violence in relation to corporal punishment because an explanation and support is given at the time it is handed out it is not mindless bullying of kids by adults.

Arthurgray50@blu 30-04-2010 22:23
Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 
Being a parent of three kids, l am proud at there upbringing, one became a police officer, l have a special needs child who goes to college, and my daughter is a mother of three great kids, but l drummed into them at an early age, respect your elders, and appreciate what we taught them, a big major problem is now that kids are allowed to run riot at school, as teachers are NOT ALLOWED to punish them, due to do gooders, that say 'smacking' is imoral, take something from them, put them on the nuaghty chair, absolute b+++++.

Stupid buricrates, hyprorites say, don't punish kids, and the result is what has happened at this school, l know two teachers, that have been threatened with a knife, to his throat, and another has been smacked across the face, AND THEY CANNOT RETALIATE.

When l was bad at Christopher Wren School in Shepherds Bush, we got punished in front of the WHOLE school, BRING this back, and the kids want it again.

Maggy 01-05-2010 01:54
Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 
Funny thing is my generation were caned in school.The majority didn't become mindless child beating thugs in later life and actually turned out to be rather decent hard working people whom I still meet from time to time as I didn't actually move away from the town I was taught in.

Can't say much for the subsequent generations though who have among their number some very worrying attitudes towards others in their society.

Luckily they are still a minority as most parents try their best despite the best efforts of a few hand wringing social engineering types who can't forbear to intervene in other peoples private lives to force their viewpoints onto the majority. How I would like it if more people stopped taking it upon themselves to tell the rest of us how to conduct ourselves and actually minded their own business.:rolleyes:

dgardner 01-05-2010 03:17
Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 
The reasons i put ADULT and CHILD in capitals was, I thought, obvious but if you don't understand it was meant to signify that a 50 year old had beaten a 14 year old with a
6 pound weight.
looking back through the posts it does seem you are implying that the teacher was right in
attacking the the child:

Quote:
Originally Posted by alferret (Post 34830779)
Your right it isnt, but if the little scrote fears retribution for his actions then there is less chance of him being an obnoxious, verbally abusive little smeggy git, respect doesnt come into it, string the little gits up by their ankles till they wet themselves, sod the PC brigade. Its about time kids learnt the way we did before all this PC crap came about.
Quote:
Originally Posted by alferret (Post 34831093)
If someone were goading me, taking the urine and swearing at me regardless if they are 14 or 40 they would get a slap up the side of the head from me.

There was none or very little abusive behaviour towards teachers 25 or more years ago, get rid of discipline and this is the result unruly kids who have no respect for themselves, their parents, teachers, police or even people walking down the street.

Its about time we got back to the old ways of dealing with oiks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by alferret (Post 34831999)
Regardless of the discussions that are going on the teacher was wrong to do what he done, the kid was wrong for also doing what he done and two wrongs dont make a right, everything will come out in the wash.
Quote:
Originally Posted by alferret (Post 35010638)
I'm happy with the verdict. My stepson goes to that school & I think its disgusting the way the kids in that lesson baited him into snapping. Also so much BS has been said in the papers regarding the actual event its unreal (but thats papers for you)
Quote:
Originally Posted by alferret (Post 35011224)
Whilst beating him around the head, he hit him a maximum of 3 times since when is that a beating?
Dont write for the daily mail do you, over exageration is such a daily rag trait.



Yes there is a place for for punishment in schools, if it wernt for the fact that we are now controlled by do-gooders who have no idea about anything than the blinkered live's they lead the country wouldnt be over run by insolent oiks who know that all they have to do is cry to the old bill, make up stories and get people arrested. Why because they can and they know what they need to do to get "the job done".

As for me being flippant, so what LOL I think I am serious about important matters I just dont get so bloody anal about it do I? Unlike :erm:

As for getting back on the subject of Mr Harvey, all you know is what you haave read in the papers and seen on TV, bit like chinese whispers where as I have a little bit more info than most of the rubbish printed in the papers.
nffc
Why is his age relevant? He was 14

alferret 01-05-2010 07:10
Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dgardner (Post 35011615)
The reasons i put ADULT and CHILD in capitals was, I thought, obvious but if you don't understand it was meant to signify that a 50 year old had beaten a 14 year old with a
6 pound weight.
looking back through the posts it does seem you are implying that the teacher was right in
attacking the the child:
I'm 43 years old pal with a lot of miles under my belt, I may be a little rough round the edges & not as eloquently a wordsmith like some people on here but I am not stupid I understand fully what the difference is between and adult and a child, it doesnt need pointing out. Last time I looked though a 14 yr old wasnt a child (I bet if you called him that to his face he would have spat in your eye) He is a young man nearly an adult, actually closer to an adult than a child thats why they call them TEENAGERS.

Obviously being 2am when you posted this it seems to me that you dont read to well, I see you missed the bit where I said


Quote:
Originally Posted by alferret (Post 35011285)
Hey I have an opinion so you need to chill a little, smoke some 'erb & kick back.

The situation is what it is and at no point did I say that what he did was ok or imply.
Selective quoting at its worse lol ;) (oh & dont say "I was only pointing out the bits where you said blah blah) because that point was & is relevant to what you are saying about me so......

Let me state for the record AGAIN!

I do not condone what Mr Harvey done, what happened to that young man was inexcusable but. How much verbal & mental abuse should one person take especially if that person was known to be in a fragile state of mind?
The school and his doctors all knew that he was on the verge of a breakdown and the kids in his class knew that too. What gives them (the kids) the right to verbally abuse a 50yr old man? Do you condone what the kids have done? You can (not you personally) argue the point where 10-15 pupils all aged between 14 & 15 are picking on a vunerable person that when that person snapped what happened as a result was wrong (which it was) but should that person be held responsible for his actions to the point where he is charged for attempted murder? I dont think so & neither did the Judge or jury.
I am pleased he got the lesser charge, which is what it should have been all along and that he is a free man. I also think that the fallout of his actions means that he will be unemployable as a teacher for the rest of his working life but the authorities owe him due to their lack of care which allowed him back into work in the first place, it was obvious that he wasnt in a fit state mentally.
I personally think that every kid in that classroom that goaded Mr Harvey into his breakdown should be charged with verbal & mental abuse, excluded, no expelled from the school and that the local education authority deny them an education because at the end of the day they behaved like a wild pack of animals.

Dont like what I write put me on ignore you wont be the first lol.

nffc 01-05-2010 11:11
Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dgardner (Post 35011615)
nffc
Why is his age relevant? He was 14
And as I asked. Why is that relevant to the point?

Flyboy 02-05-2010 00:52
Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nffc (Post 35011294)
Why is his age relevant? He was 14, not exactly a vulnerable little boy is he? And what about the other 9 times he'd been in trouble for being disruptive in class since starting secondary school?

I'm not condoning the attack but everyone has their limit and this person overstepped another person's limit, so he snapped.
A point which was denied and never proved. But still, let's beat every child who had been a bit naughty in class, that'll show 'em. :rolleyes:

This boy had apparently been playing sword fights with another student, when told to stop he swore at the teacher. Now, that is certainly not something I would ever condone my two boys doing, but it may have been an unguarded response. I would fully expect my two children to be appropriate;y punished at school, not to mention the trouble they would be in when they got home. But beating them over the head with a three kilogram dumbbell can never, ever be justified, no matter what the provocation.

---------- Post added at 23:52 ---------- Previous post was at 23:47 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by alferret (Post 35011625)
Selective quoting at its worse lol ;) (oh & dont say "I was only pointing out the bits where you said blah blah) because that point was & is relevant to what you are saying about me so......

Let me state for the record AGAIN!

I do not condone what Mr Harvey done, what happened to that young man was inexcusable but. How much verbal & mental abuse should one person take especially if that person was known to be in a fragile state of mind?
But that is exactly what you are doing, your posts on this thread are testament to that.

Stuart 02-05-2010 01:25
Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dgardner (Post 35011615)
nffc
Why is his age relevant? He was 14
That doesn't explain why his age is relevant. He may well have been 14, but could have been 6 foot and built like a brick outhouse. I was at 14. As such, he would be more than capable of defending himself.

That's not to say I think the teacher was right. He was not. I don't object to hitting (as I have stated in the past), but the teacher hit him with a 6 pound weight (which, despite being light, can do a lot of damage to the body) and he should not have hit the boy on the head (even one hit to the head can be fatal).

I was talking to a friend the other night (who is a trainee teacher), and she said there is some discussion amongst her work colleagues as to whether the teacher was fit for a return to work (he had a breakdown due to stress and had been off work). Of course, that is just staff room gossip, and it's easy to be wise after the event.

---------- Post added at 00:25 ---------- Previous post was at 00:19 ----------

Assuming the kids were baiting him (and if they were filming, I'd lay odds they were), then I hope the school attempts to find those who were responsible and punishes them. That is a form of bullying and NO ONE should have to put up with being bullied.

nffc 02-05-2010 02:36
Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuart C (Post 35012107)
That doesn't explain why his age is relevant. He may well have been 14, but could have been 6 foot and built like a brick outhouse. I was at 14. As such, he would be more than capable of defending himself.
And just to illustrate the contrast, at the end of year 9 (aged about 14 1/2) I was about 5 foot tall, looked barely 12, and sounded it. With children that age you can't draw any inference to their physical stature. If he was small for his age he could still have been a gobby, manipulative little thing though. It doesn't take much to get a class of kids on your side, if you're one of them.

arcamalpha2004 02-05-2010 08:27
Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by alferret (Post 35011625)
I'm 43 years old pal with a lot of miles under my belt, I may be a little rough round the edges & not as eloquently a wordsmith like some people on here but I am not stupid I understand fully what the difference is between and adult and a child, it doesnt need pointing out. Last time I looked though a 14 yr old wasnt a child (I bet if you called him that to his face he would have spat in your eye) He is a young man nearly an adult, actually closer to an adult than a child thats why they call them TEENAGERS.

Obviously being 2am when you posted this it seems to me that you dont read to well, I see you missed the bit where I said





Selective quoting at its worse lol ;) (oh & dont say "I was only pointing out the bits where you said blah blah) because that point was & is relevant to what you are saying about me so......

Let me state for the record AGAIN!

I do not condone what Mr Harvey done, what happened to that young man was inexcusable but. How much verbal & mental abuse should one person take especially if that person was known to be in a fragile state of mind?
The school and his doctors all knew that he was on the verge of a breakdown and the kids in his class knew that too. What gives them (the kids) the right to verbally abuse a 50yr old man? Do you condone what the kids have done? You can (not you personally) argue the point where 10-15 pupils all aged between 14 & 15 are picking on a vunerable person that when that person snapped what happened as a result was wrong (which it was) but should that person be held responsible for his actions to the point where he is charged for attempted murder? I dont think so & neither did the Judge or jury.
I am pleased he got the lesser charge, which is what it should have been all along and that he is a free man. I also think that the fallout of his actions means that he will be unemployable as a teacher for the rest of his working life but the authorities owe him due to their lack of care which allowed him back into work in the first place, it was obvious that he wasnt in a fit state mentally.
I personally think that every kid in that classroom that goaded Mr Harvey into his breakdown should be charged with verbal & mental abuse, excluded, no expelled from the school and that the local education authority deny them an education because at the end of the day they behaved like a wild pack of animals.

Dont like what I write put me on ignore you wont be the first lol.


He had apparently warned the authorities of his fears that he would harm someone.
Why did the alarm bells not ring?
Or was it more the case that the school was short of teachers due to long term sickness etc?
And he went back to work with his head not in order?
It is not unique in schools, even in the job I do, all the employer wants is you back in work.
I do not condone what the teacher did, but nor do I condone what the pupil did.
This may turn out to be one very expensive lesson for all concerned, and that is not taking account of how much this will now cost the education authority in money that could have been used for better reasons.

alferret 02-05-2010 09:57
Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyboy (Post 35012080)
But that is exactly what you are doing, your posts on this thread are testament to that.
& good morning to you & where have I been selectively not quoting. Point it out for me for I am being rather thick.

Arthurgray50@blu 02-05-2010 14:36
Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 
plain and simple, the kids at school are now uncontrolable, and get away with things, that l never got away with at school.

Teachers are sworn, hit, everything, as these kids know that a teacher cannot have a go back, and this is what happens, bring back school punishment.

Flyboy 02-05-2010 17:15
Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by alferret (Post 35012185)
& good morning to you & where have I been selectively not quoting. Point it out for me for I am being rather thick.
What?

alferret 02-05-2010 17:55
Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyboy (Post 35012500)
What?
Ah yes my bad, didnt see the bold bit.


No I am not condoning what he has done (if you dont, wont or cant understand that flyboyz let me know which language you need it translating into & I will do my upmost to please you) just because I am not getting on the guys back unlike some people.
I assume your OK with teenagers pushing people as far as the can then.

Neil22 05-05-2010 06:20
Re: Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault
 
Just picked up on this story, my lad goes to QE in Mansfield and like all the pupils is on the side of the teacher, the pupils have nothing but praise for Mr Harvey.

The child in question has been suspended from school numerous times because of his behaviour.

The cane needs bringing back into schools ASAP. It never did me any harm.


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