Originally Posted by Mr Angry (Post 34824579)

What I know about you is that you have "issues" with catholicism due to your own experiences and that you knock / debunk it at every opportunity (see the recent "Lourdes water" thread).

Originally Posted by Mr Angry (Post 34824579)

I came to the "assumption" because you stated that you would be advocating her practising a christian ethos until "she is old enough to" make her own decisions.

Originally Posted by Russ B (Post 34824580)

A catholic upbringing is a lot more than having a 'Christian ethos'! Will she have it drummed in to her that to miss church on a sunday without good reason is a sin? No. Will she be told she has no choice but to take her 'Holy Communion'? No. Will she be told she has to attend 'Confession' (which has no biblical relevance anyway but that's a different story)? No.

That's just the surface of it but her upbringing so far is very different to that of a Catholic child.

Originally Posted by Mr Angry (Post 34824589)

Well, you see, that's because you're not bringing her up as a catholic - that's a parental choice that you made for her, you see what I did there?

Originally Posted by Mr Angry (Post 34824589)

Additionally, several of the points you raise regarding sin, holy communion and confession have, I believe, changed somewhat since your, and indeed my, time as a catholic.

Originally Posted by Russ B (Post 34824592)

My moral code is based on my faith. She has no obligations.

Originally Posted by roadwolf (Post 34824601)

Russ perhaps moral codes such as the one you practice can also be practiced by Aetheists, or even Buddhists. Maybe religion is not neccessary to live a good life.

Originally Posted by Russ B (Post 34824592)

My moral code is based on my faith. She has no obligations.

Originally Posted by Russ B (Post 34824592)

Not around here they haven't - apparently God hasn't changed His mind about missing church being a 'sin'. The South Wales Diocese is as strict as they come. I don't believe in others making the choice of someone else's faith.

Originally Posted by Mr Angry (Post 34824619)

I understand that however your moral code is just that, your moral code.

Originally Posted by Mr Angry (Post 34824619)

As a parent you can only hope / strive to have your children reflect the good morals that you try to instil in them - but there are no guarantees.

Originally Posted by Mr Angry (Post 34824619)

From my own experience I have found that basing ones moral code on their faith is a very dangerous, and potentially faith challenging, thing.

Originally Posted by Mr Angry (Post 34824619)

No bad thing in my opinion. If someone "wants" to go to church then good on them but I agree that they shouldn't feel forced or obliged to attend with the threat of eternal damnation if they don't.

Originally Posted by RizzyKing (Post 34824648)

Loathe as i am to get too deep into this but a couple of things have stuck out at me. First you say you would be disappointed if your daughter chose not to follow a chriatian faith Russ but why if after thinking about it and reasoning it out for herself she chose to be whatever why would you be disappointed.

Originally Posted by RizzyKing (Post 34824648)

Secondly you seem to infer that having faith has made you a better person,

Originally Posted by Gary L (Post 34824824)

I always go by what Confuscious says.
Going to church doesn't make you a Christian, anymore than standing in a garage makes you a car. :D

Originally Posted by Maggy J (Post 34824831)

Confucius born 551 BC – 479 BC.Long before the internal combustion engine was invented..;)

Originally Posted by Gary L (Post 34824834)

Churches, Christians, Atheists? :confused:

Originally Posted by Maggy J (Post 34824840)

It's about a children's summer camp that was set up by a famous atheist so the quote really has very little to do with the topic..

Originally Posted by Maggy J (Post 34824840)

It's about a children's summer camp that was set up by a famous atheist so the quote really has very little to do with the topic..

Originally Posted by Gary L (Post 34824834)

He did say stable and a horse at the time. someone updated it to a garage and a car :D

Originally Posted by downquark1 (Post 34824857)

Incorrect. This is about a secular camp that features non-religious philosophical teaching which has received minor financial support from a foundation set up by a famous atheist.

Originally Posted by foreverwar (Post 34824917)

Confucius died about 500 years before Christianity was founded, so even if he used the stable and horse analogy, how did he analogise Christianity?

Originally Posted by Richard Dawkins

Sir

The duplicity of Lois Rogers' title, "Dawkins Sets up Kids' Camp to Groom Atheists" (Sunday Times, June 28th), is exceeded only by its Jesuitical opening line, "Give Richard Dawkins a child for a week's summer camp and he will try to give you an atheist for life." I had nothing to do with the setting up of Camp Quest, and it is not, in any sense whatever, inspired by me, or influenced by me. The British version, run by Samantha Stein with no help from me, follows the admirable American model founded some years ago by Edwin and Helen Kagin, of Kentucky.

Lois Rogers asked me for a quotation, and she thanked me warmly for the following: "Camp Quest encourages children to think for themselves, sceptically and rationally. There is no indoctrination, just encouragement to be open-minded, while having fun." Isn't that about as far from Jesuitical grooming as you could imagine? One of my dominant motivations, passionately expressed in The God Delusion, is an abhorrence of childhood indoctrination, of atheism just as much as of religion. It is in this spirit that the Richard Dawkins Foundation for Reason and Science has made very modest contributions to Camp Quest. Lois Rogers' traducing of both Camp Quest and me is, alas, par for the course for religiously motivated journalists. Fortunately, I am not the litigious type, but an apology would be nice.

Richard Dawkins
Oxford

Originally Posted by speters17 (Post 34825614)

kids should be able to choose for themselves - dont send them to god camp, dont send them to atheist camp. simple.

Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 34825633)

gosh that almost sounds like your saying that parents don't actually own there kids and should butt out of religious matters until the children are old enough to decide for themselves ;)

Originally Posted by CHiLL (Post 34825641)

Though forcing children into a certain belief isn't exactly the right thing to do either.

Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 34825645)

what belief ?

Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 34825633)

gosh that almost sounds like your saying that parents don't actually own there kids and should butt out of religious matters until the children are old enough to decide for themselves ;)

Originally Posted by speters17 (Post 34825784)

it upsets me to see these kids who have been dragged to god camp, being indoctrinated into thinking that all atheists and people of other religions are the devil and ought to be tortured and killed.

Originally Posted by Russ B (Post 34825785)

So which God camps have you been to that promote those ideas?

Originally Posted by Gary L (Post 34825794)

Does Sunday school count? ;) :)

Originally Posted by speters17 (Post 34825784)

thats what my parents did with me. seems to have worked - i made my own decision, and everything was fine. it upsets me to see these kids who have been dragged to god camp, being indoctrinated into thinking that all atheists and people of other religions are the devil and ought to be tortured and killed. yes, the parents have a right to care for their children in a way that they see fit (obviously to a point) but they have to respect that the child is their own person.

Originally Posted by Russ B (Post 34825785)

Riiiiiight.

So which God camps have you been to that promote those ideas?

Originally Posted by Gary L (Post 34825794)

Does Sunday school count? ;) :)

Originally Posted by foreverwar (Post 34825812)

If that's the sort of Sunday School you went to, that explains a lot.....;)

Originally Posted by Gary L (Post 34825813)

You can only imagine the suffering I went through :)

Originally Posted by Russ B (Post 34825785)

Riiiiiight.

So which God camps have you been to that promote those ideas?

Originally Posted by speters17 (Post 34825842)

there are many of them already well-established in america, and several are being attempted in the uk but so far have not had the support of the council and the residents.

Originally Posted by speters17

i cant find the video with the 'oh god may we kill the evildoers, may their bodies be burnt in the eternal fires of your wrath' etc

Originally Posted by Russ B (Post 34826082)

So do you accept that what you say here...



...only occurs in the minority (if any, as you still haven't shown me any evidence of it) of camps, and that the vast majority are nothing like that and spread a peaceful message?

Originally Posted by foreverwar (Post 34826093)

btw, your review from democraticunderground contained the reviewer's opinion that
not any evidence that the people in the camps were telling the kids to kill doctors and bomb clinics and be Christian terrorists. So basically, it would appear that you are using some one else's opinion to back up your opinion, rather it being fact-based.

Is this another one of your theories, along the lines you posted in another thread

Originally Posted by speters17 (Post 34826137)

yeah of course i accept that it only occurs in the minority of cases. thats what i wrote in the first place.

Originally Posted by speters17 (Post 34826137)

wow, a quotation out of context. how about coming up with an argument rather than attempting to discredit me.

and as i said in the post that contained the first quotation, it is the opinion of somebody who has watched the entire video. as i havnt watched it all, only what is available to me, then i cant comment on the entire video, only what i have seen.

Originally Posted by Maggy J (Post 34826252)

I thought the subject was ATHEIST camps not religious ones. :confused:

Originally Posted by Maggy J (Post 34826252)

I thought the subject was ATHEIST camps not religious ones. :confused:

Originally Posted by Gary L (Post 34826275)

Well if you're not sure, you can ask Russ. he'll know :D

Originally Posted by downquark1 (Post 34842286)

Oh look, another article with Richard Dawkins' face plastered over it