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At 90mph you would cover ONE mile in 45 seconds so how much time would you have to react to an approaching vehicle travelling at that speed and even if you saw him 200 yards away you would have less than 6 seconds to react and the oncoming headlights could cause the rabbit in the headlights scenario to happen.

The use of Blues and Twos probably would have prevented this from happening.

I am all for the Police and our other Emergency services pro-actively using their Blues and Twos when attending a legitimate call or reacting to a situation as it gives forewarning to other road users and pedestrians and if one of these drivers kill a person through not using these devices then the full weight of the law must be used to prosecute them.

Re: This one's going down
 

Yes but If a kid of yours got killed by an advanced driver on a 30MPH road. driving at speeds up to 90MPH and killing them instantly at around 70MPH. you'd probably see things differently.

Re: This one's going down
 

Did you have radishes for tea?

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They are slightly different:D

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what the reaction of not stepping out ?

as to lights and siren sure it would help but there are times when they are not used

as i have said a few times here i am not saying he was in the right but most posts seem to be saying it should never happen and that is not living in the real world of what the police have to do

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No, but if you're just bored and want to kill some time. we can hear what you had for tea?

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He killed therefore he should be prosecuted and banned from ever driving again and no mitigating circumstances can ever make that the wrong thing to do because he might as well have used a loaded gun because the car was just as lethal.

Would you you feel this way if it was a neighbour who killed this girl and he walked free and avoided prosecution and was able to get on with his life or are you saying that our Police have the right to kill because they were trying to catch a motorist who was maybe uninsured and would have got a slap on the wrist but looked good on crime statistics.

The is not one law for the Police and one law for the public regards dangerous driving they should and must be prosecuted for all such offences.

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regardless of weather people like myself have had advance driver training Or weather we drive a HGV or not, Pc plods still think they are superior drivers & that us people who have had the training still cannot control a vehicle in a safe mannor. Maybe they need to stop sniffing what they talk and stop thinking that they are the best at what they do on the road.

They are alaw to themselves full stop.

AS for the little Girl whos died, The Police should of had his Lights on regardless, due to the time and noise within the housing estate.

If he like many people say / think that he will use it as an excuse is just a pathetic excuse to cover his own tracks & quite frankly disrepect to the girls family and local residents.

P.s no i havent nor would i be a police officer. I wouldnt lower myself to thier stupidty or intolerance.

Also, Pc plod in question might of not been a trained high speed pursuit officer. So does this mean he will be charged for driving a vehicle in a likely manor to cause danger to himself or others?

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Now, slowly, put down your false dilemma and step away from the thread ...

Seriously, you are so far from treating this objectively, there's not a lot of point discussing it, is there? How can you say 'he should be prosecuted and banned' in the same breath, when he is in the middle of a criminal trial and you haven't heard any of his evidence?

You want to join the hang 'em high brigade, well fine, why don't you just grab yourself a pitchfork and go and yell at him outside the courthouse? It might make you feel better.

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You know what Chris your right let us see what the courts make of this case it will be interesting to hear what his mitigating circumstances are and how this prosecution is having a detrimental affect on his home life and not to forget the possibility that he could lose his job and have to put his family through hardship because of his lack of earnings.

Of course lets not forget her family who will have to live with this for the rest of their lives as the loss a child must be heartbreaking.
My thought are with them not the person who drove the car.

What annoys me is the people who rally around offering excuses or reasons for her death because they feel they must misguidedly be on the side of the "nice policeman" because he wears a uniform, but if it was their neighbour that was in court for this offence they would all react in a totally different way.

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Makes you think if he'll get any cheerers outside the courthouse if he comes out of it at the end.

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I have not yet seen any posts or links to show this PC was a class 1 driver, can anyone provide it?

Commenting only on the facts, that a car traveling at 90mph in a 30mph zone, knocked down & killed a pedestrian, irrespective of whatever reason, the driver should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

No pedestrian, young or old, expects a vehicle to be travelling at such a ridiculous speed, in a built up area.

There are no situations which merit such recklessness, from any driver.

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Advanced police driver training

Class 2 is advanced driver such as traffic
Class 1 is same as 2 with tactical pursuit and containment. armed police and such.

http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/north...2703-23285471/

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there cannot and is not ANY circumstances that warrant doing 90mph in a 30 so why dont you get real and step down, and yes i say hang him high a child has lost her life because he was chasing a motoring offence, where is the logic?

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Wherever the logic is, it's obviously not in this thread. Perhaps if you weren't so full of self-righteous fervour you would have noticed that nobody in this thread is arguing that this man must be innocent, or must be let off. Several people are simply pointing out that we haven't heard the defence case and it's unfair to judge until we have heard it.

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It'll probably turn out to be an expired tax disc that flagged up. I doubt it was suspected stolen. I think they would have said.

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from another link dunno how valid it is

http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/north...03-23285471/2/

This makes it appear like he did not even know why the car was flagged so 90mph with no blues and twos is definately not warranted by any stretch of the imagination

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Reasonable conclusions based on the information revealed in court so far Zing, but as I keep saying, you're only hearing the prosecution case at the moment. It is the job of the barrister acting for the CPS to paint a compelling picture of guilt.

It is far better to wait until the prosecution's arguments are balanced out by those of the defence. After that, this bloke may well be shown to be guilty as hell, but the fact is we just don't have all the facts yet.

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That can't help his defence much.

---------- Post added at 10:59 ---------- Previous post was at 10:54 ----------

Where did you get the info that he was a class 1 driver? is he a class 1 driver?

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He does not contest the fact he left the blues and twos off as to not alert the megan. He does not contest that he was driving at 90 mph braked and still hit the girl at 80mph. So he was traveling a residential area at 90mph with no warning he was there . No contest to that. So we can all judge him on that information as he agrees yes?

I judge that even if he is not found guilty he was reckless driving at such speeds with no warning fair enough?

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If he was 'reckless' he will be found guilty of reckless driving.

And no, I disagree that you can judge him on anything based on incomplete evidence, especially when the only evidence so far presented is that which is intended to make him look as guilty as possible.

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Reckless means it was unsafe? he's being prosecuted for dangerous driving already. and the evidence given is the evidence he has stated.

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If he's in the witness box, then the defence case has commenced. That means we're closer to finding out the full facts.

I said 'reckless' because that's the word Zingle used. I'm neither charging, prosecuting nor defending the man. I'm simply waiting to hear all the facts.

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he admits the speed he admits no siren thats complete evidence on them facts?

---------- Post added at 11:19 ---------- Previous post was at 11:18 ----------

no you are not you are arguing with us on the subject ;)

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No. Complete evidence means all the evidence presented by the prosecution, all the evidence presented by the defence, closing speeches from both sides then summing up by the judge.

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no that evidence is complete as he admits it. The rest will be reasons excuses and mitigating circumstances

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Mitigation is part of the evidence. You can't just go redefining the English language to suit your point Zing.

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I would agree with that. Providing the officer is class 1, & I have not yet seen any evidence he is, he will no doubt be relying on his driving skills as an excuse for this incident. Should he prove he was driving in a controlled manner, that would eliminate part of the prosecutions case.

Personally, I consider his actions to be reckless & dangerous.

Some seem to think the pedestrian was at fault & should have taken more care crossing. It is unreasonable to assume any vehicle would be traveling at such speed in a 30 zone. Seeing this vehicles headlights some distance away she would, quite reasonably, had assumed she had time to cross, I do wonder what the "chased vehicles" offence was for this officer to drive at this ridiculous speed.

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I am not I am making judgements on what he admits I think thats reasonable

BTW to mitigate is to lesson to make less severe . He killed the girl cant really get much worse than that ;)

" the girl is dead but its not so bad I really really wanted to catch the baddie "

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The quotes below are taken from this article and the bottom quote says it all.

http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/north...03-23285471/2/

The decision to keep the Volvo’s alarms and warning lights off only increased the threat the officer posed, the jury was told.
And the way Dougal “hunted� the Megane even though he had no information about the reason it had triggered the computer system was out of proportion.

“Put simply, our case is that his driving at such extreme speed at night in a residential area was highly dangerous,� he told the jury. “It was even more dangerous to do so without using any special warning devices.�

The jury heard the information that triggered the computer “hit� about the Megane was finally found to be out of date. Its driver, a Czech national with two relatives as passengers, had been driving normally and within the 30mph limit, even seeing the dreadful collision in his rear view mirror.

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No, it does not say it all. It says the prosecution's case. So it says about half of it.

For goodness sake, why is this so hard for you to grasp? :banghead:

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I am waiting for the defence case as that will be very interesting, but the above does leave a lot of questions as to why he acted in such a dangerous way.

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I agree completely, it begs loads of questions - but I think we need to get the answers to those questions before passing judgement. Some people posting in this thread have been content to pass judgement ever since the first report of the case appeared, and that was before the prosecution had even finished presenting.

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Chris you have to understand that some of us just know that someone got hit and died as a result of a car driving at 90mph on a 30mph road. whatever the defence is. one person died and speed was the factor.

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I understand that those facts are all anyone knew at the time this thread began. What you need to understand is that for justice to be done, you need to know more than that before you pass judgement.

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But you are basically saying that they can't have an opinion based on the these facts. we have to wait till we hear both sides before we are allowed to.
The facts so far are the facts he gave himself.
I can pass judgement on anyone without hearing their defence.

Your saying that for justice to be done, you need to know more than that before you pass judgement is wrong when we are not a jury, and you are not the judge making that comment.

You personally can say that you won't make judgement until you hear both sides, but you can't tell everyone that they have to do the same.

Justice isn't an opinion, which is what most of us are debating. even the ones with the opposing opinion :)

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You are entitled to hold an opinion; you are not entitled to share that opinion unless it is done so reasonably and responsibly. We have a law of defamation in this country to guarantee that happens.

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I don't see that happening. so we're all ok.

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For crying out loud, Chris, This is a Forum, not the Old Bailey. We are just discussing the issue here, no one has the full facts yet, however, on the facts presented, its a pretty damming case. When you seek to stop people expressing their opinions, you are restricting free speech. If everyone did that you`d be talking to yourself.

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I would say that stepping out in front of the car was also a factor.

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Actually you can't libel or slander someone from the witness box of the Old Bailey, or any other court for that matter. Or on the floor of the Commons or Lords debating chambers.

Everywhere else, you have a legal duty to speak or write responsibly. Opinion and comment covers a lot, but it is not a blanket excuse to just say whatever you want. It is entirely possible to libel someone while they are being tried. It is also possible for those same comments to be construed as contempt of court, and you can be in serious trouble if that happens. Apart from the places I listed above, and maybe a very few others, there is nowhere in this country where you have an absolute, unqualified right of free speech.

I'm not saying that any of that has happened here. What has saddened me in this thread is how willing people have been to condemn a man who has not yet had a chance to speak in his own defence. I see no pressing need for people to spill forth their bile right now, before the full facts are revealed, when we all know that the full facts will be revealed very shortly.

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Yes that too. you can also use that as a basis for your opinion.

someone got hit and died as a result of a car driving at 90mph on a 30mph road. she hesitated momentarily and tried to run out of the way, but was struck by the car at a reported impact speed of around 72mph.

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Of course it was, but was it a reasonable thing to do? Lets be fair. This is a 30mph area. Pedestrians know, you & I know, what to expect regarding a vehicles speed when you look up the road. Now if you are used to judging a distance & determining that you can cross in safety, you cross.

Now this was at night. All you would see would be headlights. Judging the distance of those headlights would give you an indication of the cars distance. Based on your day to day knowledge of vehicle distances, & an approximate speed, lets say 45 MPH, you would determine that you could cross safely.

However, the vehicle was traveling at 90mph.

I would say that had this vehicle displayed its warning lights & siren, any pedestrian would have thought twice before crossing, KNOWING, emergency vehicles travel fast. In that respect the officer was negligent, & the lack of warning lights contributed to this girls death.

Chris, I think your words are a bit harsh m8, a young girl is dead. Feelings will naturally run high.

"I see no pressing need for people to spill forth their bile right now, before the full facts are revealed"

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I think doing 90mph on a public road is the main factor and no warnings given by sirens or blue lights, could you honestly judge speeds at night with car headlights alone, I think not and as for crossing the road that is what you do not expecting any oncoming vehicle to be driven at such speeds towards you.

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yes you should be able to judge that speed car drivers do it all the time !

pedestrians are not a diferent species

you should treat every road like you were trying to cross a motorway if you dont then i would say you dont value your life very highly

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What age should you have acquired this skill from?

Or you deserve to die basically.

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Way to put words in someone's mouth........

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You don't say much do you? You mostly just think :)

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I have driven for over 30 years and professionally as a delivery driver and you cannot judge the speed of a oncoming vehicle at night if you can only see its headlights you only realise how fast they are going when they pass you.


No she was not a different species she was a 16 year old girl not expecting to be hit by a vehicle travelling at such speed.


Well no one in their right mind would attempt to cross a busy motorway so I fail to see the reasoning, are you saying no one should ever cross a road for fear of being hit by a car.


Plus she was not crossing a motorway but a normal suburban road that people cross every day expecting normal suburban non motorway speeds.

The really interesting part has yet to come which is his defence for his actions on that night.

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will look for the study but kids are often better at it than adults (who get worse at it the older they get) when they concerntrate

kids who are not able to judge speed ( under 7 trying to find the study on it might have been in one of my magazines ) shouldnt be out on thier own crossing roads in anycase

---------- Post added at 21:20 ---------- Previous post was at 21:11 ----------

hmm i might not be getting in your van

hmm guess you don't live near the schools i do the kids often cross a motorway speed road instead of using the bridge none knocked over so far as they seem to be able to judge either when there is a big enough gap or when the driver has spotted them and will slow ( note i dont condone what they do as they are risking thier lives )

so i would say the kids can easily demonstrate that they are capable of judging these speeds when they are concertrating

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You should try it.

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If you can find a ladder. I'll climb down and try it with you.

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Totally disagree with that. I live 500 yds from the A580, East Lancs Rd. I have 3 schools all closer to the lancs than me. A Nursery, Junior school & a senior school with about 1500 kids. The seniors regularly cross the lancs rather than use the tunnel.

The death rate was so high that the council built a footbridge. The death rate continued, despite the measures taken. About a quarter of a mile away, the M61 slip rd joins the lancs. Motorists continued to drive at 70, despite the 60mph lancs limit. The speed limit was further dropped to 50 mph. The deaths became injuries, & less frequent.

Then a speed camera was fitted prior to the section of road where the kids cross. The accident rate took a nosedive. Now, whenever there is a reported accident, it is normally the motorist, who has ignored the limits & been prosecuted for speeding & dangerous driving. This to me is a success story. As the TV ads say, speed kills.

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Possibly so, However, Did this Girl see the car coming in the dark ?

Of course not, why, coz pc plod never had his lights on.

scenario.

Girls walknig down the street, she looks,cant see no car, no blue lights, walk out on the rd, oops.

she looks again, see blue flashing lights with fast car coming towards her, , she dont cross the road. life saved. ..

Almost 10 time outa 10 a person will stop and turn around or look for the bluelights that they see flashing away.

How many times has anyone seen pc plod stick thier lights & siren on as soon as they give chase ? Most of the time they will follow, only then when the person who is being followed speeds up do they give it the works.

The advert you see on tv, fighting against crime, then You get Admin edit (Chris): Language, please. saying, They dont rule the streets, WE DO. :rolleyes: thats the polices attitude all over.

No mate, u do NOT rule the streets, you PROTECT them, :dunce:well thats what your surposed to do.:rolleyes:

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So she suddenly can't see headlights?

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The car would have traveled 3 times the distance @90mph than it would @30. Can you hold your hands up and say to me you have never ever crossed a road using your timing and knowing how fast traffic normally travels on the road when you see a car in what should be plenty of distance away to get across the road?

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I guess that's what makes me different, i always check.

My Gradma was killed crossing the road by a speeding driver when i was little though... This was at night however, and the brow of a hill factored into it. She also had issues walking properly, meaning her feet were always in pain, which slowed her down a lot.

Guess i'm just fighting from a personal standpoint here Zingy.

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He has been found guilty of causing death by dangerous driving.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/tyne/7990188.stm

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Lets hope our so called "Qualified Police Driver" gets a sentence fitting to the horrendous crime he committed and I hope all the soft shoe pedlars who posted the utter drivel about crossing the road and how a nice policeman could not be found guilty are now able to eat their words, but I doubt that.

He chose the way he acted and was rightly found guilty and I hope he loses his job as Hayley his victim will never have the chance to even get a job thanks to him.


And for all you that posted on here about the being no need to put his police lights on just read the following

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Justice has been served, but I would point out the "expert witness" also stated
which means that anyone speeding on the motorway is effectively a "passenger in their own car"?

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That has more to do I would say with regards to the type of road he was driving on which was not a 3 lane motorway designed for speed and without pedestrians for you to hit.

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I knew he would get a prison sentence, but I only think it'll be a couple of months.

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It will only be proper justice if he loses his job and his pension.

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I think he knows that already.

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I see Police speeding without their Blue lights on a weekly basis. They think they are above the law.

Re: This one's going down
 

You think they think they are above the law - a different thing altogether.

If you had said "some police think they are above the law", you may have gained more agreement (imho).

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He'll spend time in prison which, for a Police officer, is an exceptionally difficult place to be. He'll lose his job, probably a big chunk of his pension and his license. He'll have to pass an extended test once his disqualification expires.

His life has been ruined for doing the job he chose to do. He wasn't some yahoo screaming around at speed in a motor for a laugh. He was a highly trained driver reacting to what he believed was an ongoing crime and because of choices he made he will have to live with the death of an innocent girl for evermore.

But hey you've got your pound of flesh and seem happy about it. Another boot into the Police from the usual suspects who always are quick to moan and complain. :td:

I just hope you never need the Police to drive quickly to help you.

Is that in their cars or the unmarked black helicopters? :rolleyes:

Re: This one's going down
 

most cant read either as i cant remember either of us saying he wasnt guilty. as far as i can remember ( my posts are there to read ) we just gave reasons why this is sometimes done and how to avoid getting run down

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Do you think he didn't deserve to lose his job?
I'd say as a Police Officer and the fact that he's been found guilty, there's no choice for the police themselves to take his job off him.
You have to see it from the publics view.

He said that by the time he turned round to follow the car he couldn't see the car so put his foot down believing the driver was trying to get away from him. that was after he said before he didn't want to alert it.

If he thought that it was trying to get away, there was no reason to go into stealth mode. I think he helped to convict himself in a way.

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Just been on the news, looks like he's going to jail.

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Worst place for a police offer.

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I am not looking for your agreement.

---------- Post added at 18:40 ---------- Previous post was at 18:39 ----------

No their cars.:dunce:

Re: This one's going down
 

Derek I have no problems at all with Police doing their correctly but this officer did not do his job properly by any stretch of the imagination and in doing so Hayley the real victim in this tragedy lost her life and that could well have been avoided by the split second decision of him deciding not to switch on his Blues and Two's on a residential road on a housing estate, you can see the actual road on the TV news, and 94mph on that type of road without any warning and at night is an accident waiting to happen.

His life was ruined because he failed to do his job right and a life was lost for that very reason, at least he is still alive.

I never knock the Police as they do a fantastic job and I am not one of the usual suspects who try to denigrate the Police at any oppurtunity, I just felt that in this case the officer had well overstepped the mark.

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The point was "generally" rather than "specifically", but you probably knew that.


That slamming noise you just heard was irony leaving the building......

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someone said it was almost mid night on a monady? girl is 16 years old an goes to school? what on earth is she doing out so late?

i bet she was out drinking or do drugs of some sort... but thats just my guess, an my judgement from teenagers now-a-days..

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I used to stay out till midnight drinking and on drugs at 16 and that was 24 years ago its still irrelevent the copper was still traveling way to fast with no warning.

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It is not the time of day matters but the manner in which she lost her life.

If she had been drinking or taking drugs then the defence team would have used that as mitigating circumstances and as yet the has been no mention of it so your assumption is quite wrong without such proof.

Re: This one's going down
 

Yes I am pleased with this. The police do need to know they will be held accountable for their actions.

---------- Post added at 19:39 ---------- Previous post was at 19:35 ----------

Aint it just. With a bit of luck they wont seg him straight away and perhaps someone will pop his cherry and make him suffer more for what he has done


Your attitude because you are a police officer has shone through in this thread for me . His life has been ruined well what a shame maybe if more babylon though about safety than a quick nick this kinda thing will not happen again. He was on his own it was never gonna be a serious crime or he would have had backup. This guy was a bad cop the force will be well rid of him

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I think today some police think they can do what they want once they've been in the job long enough. they just get used to somethings such as speeding and using the lights to get through traffic faster. not that they need to, just that they can because they think nobody is either watching them, or nobody can do anything about it.

but they forget that they're working for the public and the public see these things going on and do report them,
If he was a fresh officer he would have used his lights, but I think because he's been in the job longer, then it's just natural to do what you want.

Re: This one's going down
 

its nothing new the old boys brigade has been around a long time . I did post my experience of my uncle ;)

Re: This one's going down
 

Derek, Personally, I feel your comments are slightly one sided. Prison is an extremely difficult place for anyone, Police officers do not have a monopoly on segregation. His life is ruined because he failed to do his job properly, & in that failing, he killed an innocent girl.

Because he was a "Highly trained driver", he is not exempt from the law.

I hold the Department of Transport warrant, to conduct driving tests. (Driving Standards Test Examiner) I have also conducted advanced driving assessments. I have held every advanced licence there is. From motor cycle to HGV 1. I have driven with Police class 1 drivers, aggressive & pursuit.

I don't consider myself to be an exceptional driver. I am more experienced than most, but still human. Many drivers like myself consider driving to be an "Art", & take pride in it. But there are so many things that can, & do go wrong, when your driving. My forward planning is very good. But at night, you can not plan, therefore you can not "predict".

For anyone with these qualifications, passing an "Extended test" would be very easy. His attitude would, however, have a bearing on the examiners decision.

I can say that after chatting with department colleagues & police, not one professional driver has defended this officers actions. He was wrong. professionally, personally, & legally.

I would hope that this sends out, a message to all drivers, not only emergency drivers. That there are consequences & repercussions, if you drive in a dangerous manner.

Re: This one's going down
 

Well said and quite right as well, any else that thinks any different about this should have a good hard look at themselves in the mirror and think about the comments you have made on this thread or are thinking about making.

Re: This one's going down
 

a bit harsh there i think i cant remember him saying that the officer was not guilty or that he shouldnt be punished what both he and i have done though is post answers to those who seem to think there is never any justification for driving at high speed or with out lights

i too have passed neary every advanced driving test there is and taught people to pass advanced driving tests including some police and army drivers

and although i always told all that they have to drive with in not only the limits of the car but thier limits too, but that wont help pedestrians who step out in front of high speed cars the only thing that will save them is themselves checking the road carefully before crossing

as i posted before and i bet you have said similar to those you taught "yes you have the right of way at that roundabout over the 32 tonner coming from the left BUT if he cant stop its your family who will be suing him not you"

i was not going to prejudge a case that i didnt have the full facts on or just the prosecution case ( never one-sided are they ) on what some one did in the course of thier job

i just hope that no one has to wait to long in future for a officer to turn up as two i spoke to today were already saying that in future they would not be doing over stated limit if they are told silent approach or if they are going to follow any triggered cars ( anpr )

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Oh please stop trying to make people feel guilty that a police man is going to prison for not protecting the public by driving at 94mph without his lights or siren on in the dark to warn them.

What else did they have to say about what happened. I doubt if they blamed the dead girl for crossing the road, did they?

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So Hayley ( by the way that was her name his innocent victim ) was walking down the road on a normal housing estate on a road with normal speed limits at night when she attempted to cross the road expecting any vehicle approaching to be driven normally within the speed limit.

But this police driver decided to drive on this normal housing estate and on a normal road at the abnormal and dangerous speed of 94mph without any blues and twos on to warn of his approach, you cannot judge speeds from approaching headlights as the is nothing to measure the headlight beams against so removing any perspective used to measure speed.

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actually the one did go on about bringing in rules on where to cross roads as they have in Germany

and i am not trying to make any of you feel guilty ( should have made it clearer ) they were saying what they did based on the press coverage and the lack of support they get in general from the force when anything goes wrong

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we don't need them kind of rules. we already have rules that are good enough for everyones safety. it was his colleague that broke one of them safety rules.

The force will support you when you're in the right. you can't expect to be supported if you break the rules.

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Roger, Harsh measures perhaps, but the outcome of this incident was a dead girl. Of course people will still still step out in front of vehicles, education will help, but nothing is better than a good pair of eyes. I think the point most are making, is that no matter who`s eyes they were, yours or mine, a vehicle traveling at 94 mph is going to bear down on you faster than you could reasonably expect. Unlike you roger, I did make my point, right from the start, I do consider that I had enough evidence, to state that the officer was driving dangerously.

Whilst I agree that in an emergency, the services should progress as quickly as possible, Im certain you will agree that no driver, advanced or otherwise, could possibly be in full control of a vehicle, whilst traveling 90 odd mph, in a 30 zone, at night. You know, that to be in full control of a vehicle, you need to match the speed of the vehicle, to the road, weather & traffic conditions.

Emergency drivers are educated & trained to drive to the above conditions, safely. This officer was complacent, & failed just about every rule.

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if you had the evidence fair enough i didn't ( with the best will in the world i wouldnt trust the evidence presented as fact on tv or in the papers i have seen first hand how far they will twist anything to thier agenda )

as to his speed i wont say that that speed would always be not in control but in this situation it does seem he did go to fast for the conditions and how far he could see a oint i made earlier that i tried to teach them that the limits were theirs not just the cars wich may be capable of more than they were !

neither i nor dereck from what i have read ever said he was justified just that there can be reasons for not using lights and for exceeding the stated limits ( i stand to be corrected if there is such a post )

and i stand by my point that pedestrians best chance of survival is to treat all roads as extremely dangerous

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I reserved judgement on this case initially and wanted to hear both sides of the argument, in the past, and probably in the future also I'll generally air on the side of the officer because as far as I see it their job is a thankless task.
But in this case the officer in question was clearly in the wrong, for that he will pay a heavy price loss of job, standing in the community, a prison sentence and worst of all living the rest of his life with the knowledge his taken the life of a young girl.
Of course as harsh as the above is it palls into insignificance when you consider the price the girls family will pay till the end of their days.

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Especially when there's a chance that there might be a police car doing excessive dangerous speeds without using any means at their disposal of warning you.

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my point exactly as it happens no law will stop it ever happening and even this conviction wont bring the girl back

if you want your kids to stand a better chance teaching them that its always dangerous will benefit them far more than prosecuting the offender after the fact

but some seem fine with them being knocked over as long as there is some one to put away :(

---------- Post added at 19:02 ---------- Previous post was at 19:01 ----------

exactly

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My husband thought I was mad when I taught all of our kids to cross between parked cars, but there's no guarantee kids will find an empty of stretch of road to cross at.

I also taught them not to assume they could cross the road when the green man came on, they were to wait and make sure the cars had stopped and if they heard sirens they were not to cross the road but to wait.
Every child should be taught this, sadly many aren't.

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I don't know how were just focusing on kids. it's a danger to all ages.

I don't know if you do it intentionally, but your last words always seem to be a guilt trip for the officer who broke the law.

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maybe better put than i have been :)

---------- Post added at 22:18 ---------- Previous post was at 22:14 ----------

first bit my brain just mostly associates teaching with kids and any way every ones somes ones kid ;)

second not meant that way he was guilty ( any thing about how police were taking it was not aimed at comments here but at the way some of the press have been having a go at them )

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He got 3 years............

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Any more details such as did he lose his job and all pension rights

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Goes without saying he'll lose both, I am sure Derek will confirm this

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/tyne/8028666.stm

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Rightly imprisoned and will certainly lose his job. I don't see where the bit about losing his pension rights comes into it though. :shrug:

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It can happen if you're sacked from the police. It wouldn't be part of the court's sentence but would be decided after a disciplinary hearing.