Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

I am not one to turn my cheek I would welcome the threat and if said attack was made I would go all old testement on ya ;)

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

I heard the lady in question on the Radio today and she sounded very nice. I personally can't understand the fuss this has caused.

If I ever post on here that I have suffered a severe trauma or been diagnosed as terminally ill, I'll happily accept prayers from any of you. One of them might help! and if none of them do then there's been no harm done. ;)

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

if your boss tells you not to mix your religion with your work but you then disregard that policy it isn't about applying common sense it's about defying the boss.

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

Ah, so your one of those religious people who go around bothering people on their day off, pestering them, & trying to drum your beliefs into them eh.

Then when they try & get rid of you, your going to argue. Are you serious? Your going to a strangers house & your prepared to argue? [Mod Edit (Rob M)] Do you relay think your martial arts will help you when your trespassing & the homeowner faces you with an iron bar?? [Mod Edit (Rob M)]

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

If this nurse had been warned before about "praying" for her patients, then its right she should be disciplined, note I said disciplined not suspended.
Most of us are assuming that the nurse just dropped in a prayer at the end of the consultation, but we don't know, she could well have been banging on about religion throughout her visit and the prayer was the straw that broke the camels back.
Its a moot point saying the old lady didn't complain, because by ringing her employers and saying "it doesn't bother me but it might well bother others" what did she expect would happen?
The nurse is a professional care giver who by and large is going to be treating people she hardly knows, so why on earth does she feel the need to introduce religion into this scenario? I doubt very much this was only the second time she'd done this, how many other people have had to listen to her religious views whilst she tends to them?
Surely the patient has the right not to be preached at, that comes before her "religious freedoms".

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

The thing is folks we are hearing more and more the idea that "Well I wasn't offended myself but I thought I'd better say something in case someone else might take offence".

When did we have to become the arbiter of offensiveness on someone else's behalf?Can't we just be offended on our own?


I'm not a supporter of the red tops form of journalism usually but this does seem a step too far..

It would seem we have clearly forgotten the adage of live and let live except of course when it means bearing witness against thugs,criminals and reporting crimes directly to the police.In those cases we keep our traps shut for fear of retribution.:(

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

According to the lady herself:
She didn't say a prayer for the patient in question because the offer was declined. She offered to pray for the patient only once, so didn't force her religious beliefs on anybody, simply offered a prayer. There was no preaching involved.
Her previous "offence" was the offer of a prayer card, again declined, which according to the lady herself was not accompanied by any preaching.

Lets get it in perspective. :rolleyes:

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

She wasn't being 'preached at', nowhere does it say the nurse went on about how Jesus is alive and died for our sins etc - had the nurse gone that far then I'd be more inclined to agree that what she did was not appropriate at work.

She offered to keep the lady in her thoughts outside of work (which is a poke in the eye at the militant anti-religionists who are assuming the nurse was going to pray for her right there in the room) in a way that many many other people do, and would appreciate. This is bourne out by the fact that it's only ever been brought up twice in her career.

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

Could I just point out that we are only hearing about this from the nurse's viewpoint, which may not be totally impartial - all the Trust has said is that someone contacted them, and an investigation is underway; any other information given has been the nurse's version (who, for some reason, even though she is not working, always seems to be wearing her nurse's uniform in all the TV and press interviews ;) ).

btw, she also said in an interview with the Guardian
"She said she had seen her supplications have real effects on patients, including a Catholic woman whose urine infection cleared up days after she said a prayer"

And with the Telegraph
"Mrs Petrie said that she often offers to pray for her patients and that many take her up on it.
and
Mrs Petrie said: "I stopped handing out prayer cards after that but I found it more and more difficult [not to offer them]".

Her first comment in the Telegraph sounds as this is a regular occurrence, even though her employer had previously requested in November "If there is any further similar incident it may be treated as potential misconduct and the formal disciplinary procedure could be instigated.".

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

Oh and it's not like the tv crew ever ask its interviewees to do things such as wear their work uniform for effect... ;)

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

i'm not religious but of someone offered to pray for me, no matter what faith they were, I wouldn't be offended, upset or angry. I would take it as a nurse showing caring for me, which is what they are meant to do.

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

I agree with you, and I would accept it, but her employer asked her not to.

I may be mistaken, but it appears to me this lady is mixing her evangelical feelings with her day job, and she has been requested not to.

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

Yes, you would be mistaken. Evangelising is not about offering to pray for someone.

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

Could a continued insistence to do so, after being asked not too by your superior, may be considered Evangelising?

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

That would depend on the motive of the person doing the praying. Evangelism is about promoting your belief in the hope that other people will come to share it. It's conceivable that the person offering to pray might hope that, in the long term, their faith as expressed in their desire to pray for others might cause those others to desire to share that faith. However some Christians would term this 'evangelization' rather than 'evangelism', in recognition that it is quite different than actively telling people what your world-view is and recommending they consider accepting it.

I doubt the Health Authority is interested in the technicalites anyway. So far as they are concerned, she simply is being too overtly religious for their liking.

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

I think there may be a degree of evangelising there. After all, it could be said that it would be just as effective for her to include her patients in her prayers without saying anything to them at all.

The 'prayer card' episode also leads me to the same conclusion. In my experience prayer cards are only handed out by evangelising Christians. They're not the sort of thing that all beliveres carry as a matter of routine.

Having said that I still believe that the 'equality and diversity' people are showing no such thing and are overreacting to a situation that has harmed nobody and lost them a valuable staff member.

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

It's not really evangelising. I wouldn't pray for someone personally without their permission, it's generally considered 'bad form' by many.

Again that's not correct. I have prayer cards, and I don't evangelise. I consider them to be an alternative way of telling someone they're in your thoughts.

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

Although *someone* would need to have told the Trust, otherwise they wouldn't know..

Quite.. There are people who seem to look for things to get offended by, both on and off line. The Daily Mail seems to be staffed by them.

The second part of what you said is also true.

Having worked for a Hospital Trust, I agree with Superbiatch. I doubt that the trust would act *simply* because she prayed for a patient. If they did so, they would be opening themselves up to all sorts of potential trouble. I suspect there were other reasons to get rid of her and this was just an excuse.

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

you were the one who decided to bring any threatening behaviour into it.

I used to knock the doors because I believed what I did was right when I was asked to leave I left I never once was faced with violence.

As for the iron bar if someone attacks with such a weapon you move in not away as this reduces the swing and removes most of the force from the blow allowing you to disarm your opponant.

[Mod Edit (Rob M)]

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

Is that really so? I've never come across that idea before. My grandson, as me before him always ends his nightly prayers with God bless Mummy, God bless Daddy, God bless Grandma.. etc etc.. It's never been suggested to me in my churchgoing years that anything like that was bad form.


Just my experience. The only times I have been offered prayer cards was on each occasion the start of a (polite and gentle) sales pitch. No big deal to me, as unlike the equality nuts I'm actually OK with people having alternative ways, as long as they do no harm or frighten the horses.

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

It depends on the person but that's how it is for most of the Christians I'm friends with. In your case, with children it's somewhat different but if someone from a different faith was going to pray for me then I'd rather them ask me first (I'd more than likely decline). But yeah, where possible, permission should be sought first IMO.

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

as you said if someone from a different faith ask you to pray you would decline but I don't think you would be offended by it. I'm sure you would see it as a well meaning gesture and be glad they were thinking of you

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

What a stupid decision.

When I saw this thread, I thought straight away about my ex-girlfriend. Something like this could easily happen to her because she is a nurse and very religious, add to that its the sort of thing she would say to a patient.

Although I have no time for religion, I know that my ex would say exactly the same to a patient and would pray for someone with the best intentions.

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

yeah but would your EX, after being warned that this behaviour was against policy, be stupid and defy the bosses and do it again?

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

I doubt she would, but I guess saying such a thing when all good intention is meant is a hard habit to break.

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

When someone sneezes should we refrain from using the term "Bless you". Is that any different with it's religious inference?

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

It's not often that you and I are on the same wavelength but on this we certainly agree..It's a world gone completely nuts that anyone could find this offensive.

Like the poor shop assistant the Newcastle Branch of Evans who called me flower and I said how much I had missed such colloquialisms. She was immediately contrite because some dimwit customer had complained to her manager because of being called flower too.Said it was patronising..Duh!only if a bloke says it to you is it anything like patronising and then I'm not going to get offended by that. It's better than the present attitude of men calling women bitches.:rolleyes:

So now the poor woman has to work hard to remove the natural kindly expressions that she uses everyday because some stupid female thinks that one woman calling another flower is demeaning.:rolleyes:

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

Undetermined - snopes

Anyhoo, I say "Gesundheit", picked up when I lived in Berlin. :D

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

I did say it was an inference.

There are worse things that can be picked up in Berlin. :D

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employme...rk/DG_10026449

http://www.cps.gov.uk/news/nationaln..._05_03_08.html

a quick read through those should send shivers through her employers

she has a right through the human rights act and the freedom of religion in Europe to express her belief in work or not

the only curtailment ( and this shouldnt be problem for Christians ;) ) would be if what she said was illegal such as condemning certain sexual preferences

i can not see any way that saying what for many is a throw away phrase such as the ones mentioned here in other posts is in any way offensive to the majority is silly and in no way in any case could be conscrewed as breaking any uk or european law

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

I doubt it...


http://www.cipd.co.uk/subjects/empla...humnrights.htm

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

I don't see how any of those were violated by someone being asked to include a paient in a prayer.

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

yep for health and safety they can impose uniforms ect but that doesnt give them the right to curtail what they say

as long as what they say isnt illegal and isnt considered offensive to MOST people then they are protected by those laws

and even with the uniforms the employer may have to show it was needed and not just because they like the uniform or equipment

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

I mostly posted that to show there are limits to the expression of belief in the workplace. You're not allowed to bully others for instance, and those who have no belief or other beliefs have rights as well, so it seems doubtful that an employer cannot act against inappropriate behaviour simply because someone expresses his/her religious beliefs.

If one of my colleagues keeps trying to convert me, and I complain to my boss, my employer can take action against that person as my rights are violated.

Likewise, if this woman keeps banging on about her beliefs to patients and colleagues (If, I'm not saying she does), then the employer has a case for telling her to stop that kind of behaviour in the workplace.

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

your right if she was actively continually try to just convert you ;) she could be asked to stop

and as a member of a religion that does preach door to door i think it unlikely that any of the diferent religions i know would be doing that in the work place

but to compare that sort of thing to offering compassion in the form of prayer i doubt very much would stand up i know my religion would fight something like that all the way through the court system

i would put it in the same sort of statement as some one saying "I'll be thinking of you" or "i feel for you"

this is not like the wearing of rings or crosses which are hard to show that they are needed to express your faith ! Pray is a central part of every Christian denomination i know of ( and i have studied a fair few lol ) it is such a big part of the faith asking someone to never utter those words of "i'll pray for you" or "i will pray for you later if you want" it would be like asking a Geordie never to utter again the words "why aye man" ;)

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

That's all fair enough. However, it seems likely that there is a bit more to this story. As we've established, there is a limit to people's freedom to express their religion when it becomes annoying to others. The fact that she had been spoken to about her behaviour after previous incidents does at least raise the possibility that she was a bit overzealous.

Having said that, I would feel uncomfortable (but not offended) if someone where to ask me if I wanted her to pray for me, so I would actually prefer to not be asked. So, something that is a kind gesture to one person, may make another person uncomfortable.

As usual, a balance needs to be found between the rights of all involved, and if this woman has been a nuisance to people, than I do think it is right that action is taken. If she hasn't than it probably is a bit silly (in particular because there may be a lot of people who really appreciate the gesture), but I do think it is good that the right of people to not be subjected to other people's religious beliefs is taken into consideration.

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

that's the one bit that is most likely not covered by any of those acts

what is covered is your right to ridicule and hold to account anyone's religion

however curtailing a persons way of expressing thier religion is only suposed to be done where it is clearly breaking a law or causes offence to the majority of people and even then according to the acts care has to be taken on how it is curtailed

the bosses of this trust though do have to take account of patients and carers wishes but the way to do that should be to take the worker away from that patient just as they would if a female patient requested no male helpers

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

But I wonder how many others were comforted by her making the offer and did not feel in any way offended or put upon..Might be nice if they spoke up..

What a society we are making for ourselves..Where a kind word or offer is taken offence at...:(

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

I did make that point (about people being comforted by it) myself. I have very mixed feelings about this. If it is a genuine kind word offered to people where she genuinely thinks it will be appreciated this suspension sounds bang out of order. It is also possible however, that the woman is a bit of a zealot that brings up religion at every possible opportunity. The latter, I would consider unprofessional. But, as usual, we don't have the full facts, so it's difficult to judge.

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

If the above was true then I think there'd have been a LOT more complaints made about her during her career, as opposed to theonly two so far.

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

Yes, that's a fair point. On the other hand, the fact that not many people complained does not mean they didn't object or felt uncomfortable about. Just that they didn't object strongly enough to complain. Having said that, I do agree that things should not be banned for fear of upsetting people, without any evidence that people do actually get upset.

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

Bear in mind how vitrolic some people on CF are towards religion. This forum might not be an ideal representation of society however it goes to show you there are plenty of people out there who are more than happy to totally overreact if anyone has the cheek to mention religion in their presence. So with that in mind, coupled with the number of carers, patients and their families that she's likely to have encountered over the years, I reckon the chances of her being some kind of zealot who 'pushes her religion' on anyone she can find are pretty much non-existant.

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

That's the one thing I hate about the web. Normally level-headed people turn in to mad raving lunatics when they hide behind the anonimity of a keyboard :D

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

mad never ( now where did i put that pink elephant )

;)

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

Although this nurse meant no harm to her patient, she should have kept her beliefs to herself. Its certainly possible that the patient or her carer took exception to her attitude, simply because it isnt the "normal" thing to say. Perhaps if they knew her better, they would not see any cause for concern. Most religious people I know are simply getting on with life, not pushing their beliefs, just live & let live people.

I have a shattered pancreas, splinters & internal damage. Its not life threatening now, but I would be a bit concerned if my Doc said "I`l say a prayer for you". I think i`d be, WTF! Am I on the way out? Its just not expected for someone in the health profession to offer spiritual help.

I suspect the complaints have come from people who do not know this nurse very well. Had they known her, & her religious standing, I feel sure this would never have seen the light of day.

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

I'd never call you mad. Deluded maybe, but not mad :angel: ;)

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

how many people have been killed in the name of religion? i would suggest that is one of the reasons they are very vitriol towards religion, not because they are members of CF.

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

She did keep them to herself, otherwise she would have been asking the patient to join her in prayer.

Less than the number who have been killed for land, power or politics yet the vitrol is still reserved for religion. Double standards?

I'm hazarding a guess none of those with faith on CF have ever "killed in the name of religion" yet we still get that vitrol. Double standards?

This nurse was not harming anyone in any way. I'll go out on a limb and suggest if anyone on here claims they'd be offended if she'd done the same to them it's purely because they want to get a "religious person" in to trouble.

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

I think people should remember it was not necessarily her Religion that was the problem, it was her indifference to her supervisors orders. She had done this before and was requested to avoid doing so. Now, that may have been a unreasonable request to make of her (although given the complaints, it may have been for her own good. Don't mix Religion/Politics with work) and I also think she suspension was harsh.

She is not being targeted for her religion but her failure to do what was asked for her.

Also The Woman that reported her is a cow.

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

I think it would be a better World all round if everybody kept their beliefs or non-beliefs to themselves.

It's not what you believe in that makes you the person you are. It's what you do with your life that counts.

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

cant quite agree though i will say the person or persons deciding that she could be told not to do it may well have done so with no intended targeting of her religion or indeed any religion

what they did was not lawful and is not lawful under the articles on freedom of religion

so her not complying shouldnt and most likely cant be held against her

just because a boss says something doesn't make it automatically right or lawful

where she went wrong was not escalating this when first told but as we dont know the full facts she may have been told this by a junior supervisor and decided they didn't understand what they were talking about and just left it at that

if we all escalated everything at the first instance there would be a lot more litigating going on lol ;)

as to the one reporting her ( darn it defending the other party now lol ) they may well belive they are only doing the right thing not understanding the law either ( why should she how many here have read any of these acts all the ay through ) and in any case i defend the right those who dont like religion have to say so and to say if they want some one ike that helping them or thier relatives etc

which takes me back to the mangement who really should undestand these acts and as i said befoe offered to provide another nurse / carer while giving the nurse another job or asking her if she would be happy to not talk about reliogion with that particular person

which could takeme to a big bug bear of mine of management no longer managing anything just following memos and rules and not using judgemnet and knowledge any more ( but that would be another thread lol :angel: )

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

http://www.layscience.net/node/482

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

The comment below was cut from the first link in this thread:

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

maybe she mislead the daily mail when they asked her questions?

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

Maybe they selectively quoted? ;)

I would love to hear the other side of the story, as at the moment, it appears all one-sided.

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

How could she have kept it to herself when she made the offer to pray?


I agree there was no harm done, but part of the issue is her employers policy, which she failed to adhere to.

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

She wasn't inviting the patient to join her in prayer.

If someone had said "Oh God, I've been looking for you" are they pushing religion on people?

And one step further, the issue is the trust have misplaced priorities and seem more interested in being PC.

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

As a bit of an ignorant atheist, I would perceive that the fact that she asked if she could pray for her, was an invitation. As a believer, you perceive it to be different. Thats OK, because I think were just splitting hairs.

No. I commonly things like "Jesus wept" without meaning anything religious.


Possibly, but when an employee does something which is against policy, then they are treading on dangerous ground. Theres no reason to suspect this nurse did anything bad. She mentioned religion. Most people would just shrug it off as meaningless.

However, people do start to get defensive when religion is pushed on them. None of us were there at the time so we cannot say how the subject was brought up, how forcefully it was said, or what reaction the patient & carer had. But, unfortunately, she brought the trouble on herself.

Keep shut & get on with it. Best policy.

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

suggested reading for those who think they can ban religion in work

http://www.biznet.org.uk/religion.htm

http://www.biznet.org.uk/Department%...mployers_taken

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

imho, it's not about banning religion, it's about inappropriate behaviours.

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

if its part of the way she practices her religion then its about religion

as i said before that doesn't take away from the other side if they don't like what she was doing they shouldn't have to have her there but that should be achieved through moving her to another patient

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

If i am a patient in a hospital the last thing i want to hear from a nurse is an offer for her to pray for me come on people a nurse says that when you are in hospital your not going to have positive thoughts are you. Secondly we have had 11 pages of chat about a woman who was previously warned not to do it and disregarded those orders so what other job can you ignore the boss and not face any action i am curious.

This isn't about religion for me on this occasion this is about a woman who didn't do what she was told and whether it was two or two hundred people got upset by it. Rules are rules and are not there to be disrgarded because they don't fit what you like to do she was told she ignored and now she is getting the reward for that. All this talk of religious freedom is a smoke screen in this case because no one is saying she can't be religious they are saying don't offer prays to patients and she did so what is the big deal.

I am an atheist well known on here don't hide it and yes i think some people have gone a bit ott on this but if she had done what she was told there wouldn't be a problem thats the basic issue here not religion or the freedom of religion in this country it is about an employee being given an order and not complyng with that and just because she was offering prayers should not mean she gets any special consideration.

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

In a nutshell...:clap: :clap:

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

I couldn't have put it better Rizzy, lest people forget she is in a position of power ministering to sick people, how many people have not complained about her behavior for fear of causing a stink?
If her beliefs are that important that she can't separate them from her work, maybe a change of vocation is in order.
Oh and before I'm accused of wanting to dehumanize her, I'd suggest its perfectly simple to be compassionate and caring without invoking religion on her patients...surely thats not asking too much.

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

(sigh)

She's not ministering to anyone. To minister would be to ask the lady to join her in prayer. Or to pray in front of her.

If she was as troublesome as some people are suggesting then she'd have been reported a lot more often.

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

We don't know that Russ, we are all guessing at what really happened. All I'm saying is that surely non-believers have the right not to be god-bothered or whatever way you want to put it, especially when they are on their sick beds, obviously the local trust agrees.

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

Nowhere has it been reported she offered to lead her in prayer. We all know what the nurse is claiming happened, had that not been the case I'm sure the patient would have come forward with her version.

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

Russ i know you have your faith but what part of this is getting past you she did it in the past and was reported and asked not to do it again she ignored that and did it again and so is now in the process of action against her. Sorry as i said this is not about her freedom to have faith or practise it it is a case of her doing as she is told and not doing what she pleases religion or no religion you can't just choose to ignore what your told because you don't like it. I am not getting drawn into a religion issue here because there isn't one your over complicating what is a simple issue because it is centred on something you too believe in but this whole issue is about someone that was given a direct order that her employer has a right to give and she ignored it.

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

Nothing is 'getting past me'. People are saying she was preaching or pushing her faith on someone and I'm showing how she wasn't. I'm also pointing out how the rule she supposedly broke is pointless, petty and just there for political correctness.

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

I'm sure I just heard on the TV she got unsuspended as 'she was acting in the patients best interest' - That was on BBC news by the way.

Oh well.

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

Coomon sense prevails.. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/somerset/7873145.stm

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

Praise the Lord. ;)

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

Sorry i don't think the rule is pointless or petty i think it could be quite worrying having a nurse say she is going to pray for you when you are in hospital for some people. Just as i don't take my views on faith into any workplace or social enviroment i go into as i don't think it is appropriate i don't believe anyone else should unless their occupation is directly connected with faith such as a priest and the like. I have to say that for people to see this as unfair to her is simply wrong and if it were anything but religion there wouldn't have been half the fuss kicked up this was an employee who disobeyed what she was told but because prayers were the main point that seems to have made it ok for her to do as she pleased absolutely ridiculous.

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

....she didn't say she was going to, she was asking the lady if she'd like her to....

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

Which is not part of her job she was including an aspect of her personal life in her professional life and she did not know before she asked if the patient would be happy to have that offer. If this had been her doing this to a friend or member of her family i wouldn't care but going upto peope she feels may want it or like it is not part of her job and is not what she should be doing. If this had been about a nurse offering to share any other aspect of her personal life or belief we wouold have not had this thread and no one would have been shouting to defend the nurse.

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

So what if they'd been talking about God or Christianity at the time? And the nurse felt the level of conversation gave the the impression the patient was open to being prayed for?

I hope you're not suggesting medical staff should be allowed to talk about anything other than religion.

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

Well, the way I see it I'd be irritated if I got asked, but as long as she didn't ask me again that would be the end of it.

Still, that's just my 2p and all.

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

No Russ i am saying that when you go to work you leave your personal life and beliefs at the door you have justified what this woman has done with a lot of assumptions and you have done it again with "So what if they'd been talking about God or Christianity at the time?" so if thats the view you take you would agree if they hadn't been talking about that then this nurse shouldn't have made the offer ?. What has become clear is this nurse is a person of passionate faith and while i do not have a problem with that and fully agree and would fight for her right to have that and practise it in her personal life i will never agree that it is ok to take it into work. But at the end of the day it still comes down to the fact she didn't agree with what she was told and blatently ignored it and did what she wanted are you seriously saying thats how it should work in this country that we ignore the rules if we don't think they are fair or apply to us.

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

So no talking about football then?

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

if I Nurse offer to pray for me I'd think.... Jesus! how long have I got? is there that little hope for me!!!

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

If she just came up out of the blue with it then maybe. But we don't know what they were talking about before she asked....

Or if the patient had a non-terminal illness, assuming prayer meant they were at death's door would seem like a dose of....."Atheist's Reaction"?

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

Russ sorry but when i think of hospital and prayer only one thing enters my mind and if i were an elderly person in hospital and a nurse offered to pray for me i would not be thinking happy thoughts. I do like the way Russ your avoiding the central point of whether it was right for her to ignore her orders and continue doing what she was told not to do your focusing only on the religious aspect of this as though an attack on religion has happened when that isn't the case at all. She was wrong she got her wrist slapped it's a storm in a teacup and if religion weren't involved no one would care one bit.

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

Perhaps someone a little more open minded would think differently? Funny how it's always different when it comes to religion...

Let me be clear then - for such a silly 'rules', yes, I feel she was right to do what she did. Some rules are pretty daft and only serve PC purposes. These are the ones which IMO should be flouted for the purpose of exposing their pointlessness.

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

FFS, she wasn't offering the last rites.

She was offering prayer like offering a cup of tea. An act of genuine kindness.

She prays, anyway. If she would like to me mention me in her prayers then fine by me.

I wont avoid it, of course she was right. Not all rules are good rules.

No she's being punished for an act of kindness.

No good deed goes unpunished.

Pathetic.

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

in that case it means you'd have an agenda and if you behaved like that and I was your boss, knowing that you were doing it for your own agenda and to deliberately challenge a management policy, I'd consider suspending you from duties.

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

You miss the point. Using the word 'agenda' implies I'd be going out of my way to follow my beliefs, which I wouldn't.

But asking a question which is loaded with good intention and care and hurts no-one, and ending up in trouble? Pull the other one.

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

Russ tell me where in this thread i have attacked religion or said religion was in anyway wrong i havn't in fact the opposite my main point is you don't take a job then decide what rules your given you obey and those you don't and i would love to hear of a company that suports workers overturning what they feel are silly rules. Rules are rules you may not like them all i have certainly worked in places that i felt had silly rules but it isn't my place to just turn round say "oh that ones a bit silly i will ignore that because i know better". So what your saying is that companys should except employee's ignoring rules if they can say why that rule is stupid as thats what it sounds like your saying.

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

I haven't accused you of attacking religion.

If you go through life conforming to every rule, and that works for you then fine. However there is nothing wrong with challenging them and taking action if you feel they are not correct. In this instant it appears the trust are aware of the flaw in their 'rules'.

If what she is doing is a protest against political correctness then she has my support.

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

So, in summary.

Some people don't have a problem with this lady's actions, and think the Trust was wrong.

Some people do have a problem with this lady's actions, and think the Trust was right.

Some people do have a problem with this lady's actions, but think the Trust over-reacted.

Some people just don't care about it.

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

Some people do have a problem with the way she acted, and do think the trust was wrong, but also think she acted corrected but the trust was right!

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

There are been some tongue in cheek comments about what if she had been a satanist? or practising voodoo? But on a serious note, what if she had been a non Christian nurse. And she started praying over patients in say Arabic, or Hindi, or Hebrew. Would the reaction and outcome be the same?

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

No, I'd say she'd be a candidate for dismissal. The difference being she didn't pray over the patient.

If she was Muslim, Hindi or whatever and offered to pray for the patient in the same way as she actually did then my stance would have been the same as it has been all through this.

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

it's an agenda if you are deliberately flouting a rule as a means to an end.

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

I'm just glad that the trust have allowed her to get back to work :tu: :)

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

If you'll accept the word 'agenda' as 'protest' then I'll agree with you.

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

So she was praying for the patients away from them? I haven't read the ins and outs of this story. Did she go home to pray, was she in the same room, how was she found out?

I'm with Ramrod, it's good that she hasn't lost her job over this.

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

She asked the patient if she could pray for her. Not with her btw, which would have been an entirely different situation. There is nothing to suggest she was going to pray while on duty or even in the building. On this basis we can assume it would be on her own time - or even in her church.

Had she prayed in front of the patient, or simply told her she'd pray for her, then the situation would be very different IMO.

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

I am pleased she is back on the nurse bank for casual work, but I think this isn't going to go away, myself.

BBC "On Friday, Mrs Petrie told BBC News: "It's part of me. I can't divorce my faith from being a nurse."

NHS North Somerset "we are keenly aware of the importance of an individual’s spiritual belief, and we recognise that Caroline felt that she was acting in the best interests of her patients. For some people of faith, prayer is seen as an integral part of health care and the healing process. That is why NHS services in North Somerset offer spiritual support such as chaplaincy and prayer rooms, for example, available for use by people of all faiths.

It is acceptable to offer spiritual support as part of care when the patient asks for it.

But for nurses, whose principal role is giving nursing care, the initiative lies with the patient and not with the nurse. Nurses like Caroline do not have to set aside their faith, but personal beliefs and practices should be secondary to the needs and beliefs of the patient and the requirements of professional practice."

That reads to me, and I may be mistaken, that they are stating that prayers should not be offered.

Re: Nurse suspended for offering to pray for patient's recovery
 

It's possible they were talking about church and prayer as she then asked "so would you like me to pray for you?" (my conjecture obviously).

On that basis I'm not sure how a patient would ask a nurse if they'd pray for them if they didn't know of the nurse's faith.