Re: 50Mbit Service Upstream Discussion
 

Indeed, we've got to get it together now ;)

Anyway to avoid this all getting a bit hectic and a 'your provider' Vs VM

Re: 50Mbit Service Upstream Discussion
 

He was pulling your chain. Hard drives of even 15 years ago were transferring data at 33 mbits. My 2.4gig P4 has a SATA drive and can easily saturate a 100mbit ethernet link.

When I hook it up to a gigabit swtich I get around 140mbits transfer rate.

Re: 50Mbit Service Upstream Discussion
 

Im definitely getting full speed (if not 52mb)

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/8239/50mbnp2.jpg

Can you tell me how to access the modem config, the old 192.168.100.1 isn't working anymore. Would be willing to help out.

Virgin also called this morning regarding installation, (wasn't at home so no clue what it was about) - but they are interested in fixing stuff and probably after me confirming it's running very nicely. Im impressed.

Re: 50Mbit Service Upstream Discussion
 

Glad you're having a good experience.

It's supposed to be at 192.168.100.1 but I understand that a lot of people are seeing issues getting to it.

Re: 50Mbit Service Upstream Discussion
 

Can ping it, 1ms as expected but still can't seem to be able to access the web bit.

Re: 50Mbit Service Upstream Discussion
 

Bugger, wonder when they are rolling out the 50mb in my area, mind you it doesnt seem worth it right now....their networks dont see mgood enough to handle 20mbit let alone 50! :/

Re: 50Mbit Service Upstream Discussion
 

Ok this has been said many time before and I am going to say it again the new 50Mb is using DOCSIS 3.0 which in effect has seperate bandwidth to the DOCSIS 1.0 part of the network so VM can handle 50Mb, there are many reasons why you get a slow connection, mostley oversubed UBR but people need to read up on DOCSIS before they start saying that VM cant offer 50Mb.

Re: 50Mbit Service Upstream Discussion
 

I completely agree but the competition is getting a bit hotter for VM vs [insert ADSL provider here]

I would love to have my upstream to be at least 10% of my downstream on VM

Re: 50Mbit Service Upstream Discussion
 

I would very much agree with you on this one, and there's no reason beyond a lack of interest in providing it that it isn't.

I really wish I could give a 5 minute explanation of why that's nice and easy to soak in but it's not the easiest thing to explain.

Please see the attachment for the upstream channels that are available to cable operators. These are single channels, no bonding involved. Comcast are using the one on the far right to deliver 10Mbps upstream on their 50Mbit product. Virgin have been using 2nd from left and 4th from left so far on their DOCSIS 3 deployment, and have been having issues with SNR in some areas with those.

Re: 50Mbit Service Upstream Discussion
 

All the new modems issued by Virgin on all their tariffs are at least DOCSIS 2.0 capable. Why the hell haven't they enabled them like that? Moreover, yes they're DOCSIS 1.0/1.1 backwards-compatible, but even a small increment to DOCSIS 1.1 would yield a 20% increase in available bandwidth according to that graph! How trivial is it to implement such a thing on Virgin's end? If a Virgin employee can answer me that question directly, I'll be very happy to know.

I hate the fact they tout it as "the mother of all broadband", when other ADSL providers spank them in* the download speed stakes, reliability, and upload speed stakes.

*for some customers.

Re: 50Mbit Service Upstream Discussion
 

Probably been answered elsewhere on this site, but how do they get away with stating Fibre Optic, when it is coax.

BT and every other ISP for that matter has some fibre somewhere in their circuit. Perhaps they should all mention it.

Re: 50Mbit Service Upstream Discussion
 

Areas still running the 2nd from left DOCSIS 1.0 are doing so because either:

A) There's no need to move then to 16QAM as the current bandwidth is enough or
B) The network in that area is too noisy - as you move across the range the trend is that you generally need better quality and better maintained access network.

---------- Post added at 16:20 ---------- Previous post was at 16:19 ----------

Because the Advertising Standards Authority say they can.

Re: 50Mbit Service Upstream Discussion
 

Does somewhat distort the truth though, the ASA should not really allow that, but obviously do.

Re: 50Mbit Service Upstream Discussion
 

Any service that uses fibre optics for any part of the 'last mile' link can be described as fibre optic broadband.

Fibre To The Cabinet that BT are trialling on a larger scale later this year will be called 'fibre optic' even though it comes in via a telephone line!

Re: 50Mbit Service Upstream Discussion
 

There is currently an issue with some of the VM Set Top Boxes that is stopping them operating D2.0, that will be fixed over the next few weeks. The other reason is that QAM32 or QAM64 require vastly 'cleaner networks' than VM are currently able to support.. As is being discussed here they are struggling to support QAM16 in some areas.

Re: 50Mbit Service Upstream Discussion
 

To just expand on that, my modem is currently connected downstream to QAM256, the upstream is on QPSK. Judging by what I've read so far in this thread, that should more than qualify it for DOCSIS 2.0, heck DOCSIS 3 if the right modem's about.

Re: 50Mbit Service Upstream Discussion
 

The fact that your DS is QAM256 is nothing special, in fact that is defacto across the whole of VM with exception being the Bromley Platform that has a legacy STB that will not function at QAM256 and the DWDM areas of Langley.

DoCSIS 1.0 upstreams will support QPSK and QAM16, so your area either doesn't need the bandwidth to justify QAM16 or the area is too noisy to support it.

I have absolutely no idea why you think this would 'more than qualify it for DoCSIS 2.0'?

DoCSIS 2.0 brings in the ability to provide QAM32/64 in the upstream. However the network has to perform to specific noise characteristics to support it. With your area operating at QPSK, it is unlikely that in its current state it would support QAM16, let alone QAM32/64.

DoCSIS 3.0 is a totally different platform and the DS operate at EuroDoCSIS QAM256 and are channel bonded, so as you say a new modem.

For the upstream, it uses DoCSIS 2.0 technology at the moment anyway (no US channel bonding) so what I have said about D2.0 applies.

Re: 50Mbit Service Upstream Discussion
 

Silly me thought that the higher the number on the end of QAM meant it had a higher bandwidth. I guess QAM256 would be equivalent to 256KHz then?

Re: 50Mbit Service Upstream Discussion
 

256 point constellation Quadrature Amplitude Modulation.

Still doesn't mean anything for upstream performance what the downstream is doing.


There's even at least one area that's doing DOCSIS 3 on 64QAM downstream. The modulations do not count for anything on the DOCSIS version that's being run.

Have a quick look at the whole wonders of DOCSIS, many resources available on the web.

Re: 50Mbit Service Upstream Discussion
 

No, if you read the other thread about this, specifically the pdf that was linked to, docsis 3.0 does not increase the aggregate bandwidth by a single byte.

---------- Post added at 23:26 ---------- Previous post was at 23:25 ----------

Though I saw on another thread somewhere, that you have about 5 mins after booting the modem to login to it, after that no go.

Re: 50Mbit Service Upstream Discussion
 

As I think I might have mentioned on the newsgroups it does increase the available bandwidth by a lot of bytes, it just doesn't increase the available RF bandwidth.

1 or 2 x 38Mbit channels usable Vs 1 or 2 x 38Mbit channels and 3 x 51Mbit channels is quite a difference.

Backhaul bandwidth from CMTS to Internet should not be an issue.

Re: 50Mbit Service Upstream Discussion
 

DS here is using QAM64 and US is using QPSK.

Re: 50Mbit Service Upstream Discussion
 

Your point was that no game required a higher upload speed. EVERY game on Xbox Live, and any non server game (many) on the PS3 require it. EVERY game on Xbox Live is peer to peer and therefore hosted by one of the gamers automatically, whomever has the best upload. So their point is entirely valid, one of the benefits, and for me it's a significant one, is that there will be the opportunity to play on Xbox Live with lots more gamers in one room.

You implied that it was only useful for hosts, as if that was a minority thing. And it is if you're a PC gamer. But it's a common thing on Xbox Live. The sooner the UK gets higher upload speeds as a matter of course, for everyone, the sooner we'll be able to enjoy Xbox Live or PSN to the full.

Re: 50Mbit Service Upstream Discussion
 

So I am wrong when I think of the xbox connection method as peer-to-peer in that each individual person has another connection to another user?

Re: 50Mbit Service Upstream Discussion
 

Yes, one person in the game becomes the host and everyone else connects to them.

Re: 50Mbit Service Upstream Discussion
 

Not really peer to peer then is it :P

Re: 50Mbit Service Upstream Discussion
 

No :) But people tend to refer to it as peer-to-peer rather than saying that there's no provided hosts.

Re: 50Mbit Service Upstream Discussion
 

"people tend to refer to it as peer-to-peer " ?,most people call it by its real name though that being the old classic client/server mode

Re: 50Mbit Service Upstream Discussion
 

Upload related thought for the day: Those on the LLU-based offnet package delivered over the much maligned copper wire have better upload speeds than all fibre optic customers apart from those on 50Mbit, and pay £17 a month for the service with evening and weekend calls.

Thought over! :)

Re: 50Mbit Service Upstream Discussion
 

without pulling the marketing apart BB :)
it's shame VM wont contract for these stand alone CMs as their a few pennys more in bulk...as VM routinely buy....

not that VM ever liked cable modem 'gateways' for the whole house streaming LAN thing and the like many end users have advocated for Years...

http://mediacenter.motorola.com/cont...9&NewsAreaID=2
"
Motorola Extends DOCSIS® 3.0 Leadership with New Line of Wireless Home Networking Gateways

Motorola’s innovative SURFboard® gateways help accelerate the migration to a service-assured home with integrated IP services

October 27, 2009


HORSHAM, Pa – October 27 2009 – Motorola, Inc.’s (NYSE: MOT) Home & Networks Mobility business today announced its next-generation SURFboard DOCSIS 3.0 modems and integrated gateways, designed to deliver ultra-broadband IP-based voice and data services.

Motorola’s new gateways help cable operators accelerate the delivery of personal media experiences to their subscribers by making ultra broadband available throughout the home, with one easy-to-install and easy-to-manage device.

As consumers demand more wireless services, cable providers are seeking integrated solutions that combine traditional high-speed data, IP-telephony and secure home networking with unparalleled service assurance.

Motorola continues to be a market leader for DOCSIS 3.0 solutions, and this new platform is two times faster than our previously announced DOCSIS 3.0 products.

The new line of standards-based and remotely manageable gateways supports high-bandwidth Gigabit Ethernet (GiGe) home networking and channel bonding of up to eight downstream and four upstream channels.

This increased 8 x 4 throughput support enables an operator to offer its customers advanced multimedia services with data rates up to 300 Mbps downstream and more than 100 Mbps upstream.

The new SURFboard all-in-one integrated gateways also are equipped with a four-port GiGe switch and integrated 802.11n Wi-Fi® access point.

The gateways’ internal antenna and switched on-board radios (2.4 or 5 GHz) enable consumers to maximize the high-bandwidth potential of their home or business networks, while eliminating the need for stand-alone routers, hubs and access points.

In addition, the new SURFboard gateways are equipped with next-generation security features:
a built-in firewall with Stateful Packet Inspection;
intrusion detection; Denial of Service attack prevention;
and a simplified ”visitor” feature set, enabling users to easily accommodate addition of their “permissioned” guests onto the home’s Wi-Fi network, while still protecting the network from unwelcome hacker attacks. ....
...

"

Re: 50Mbit Service Upstream Discussion
 

I personally prefer having a modem rather than a router, much more flexible. Who bloody well wants switched radios in a router anyway, even my knackered old 3com AP (that admittedly I don't use anymore) can operate in both bands at the same time.

Re: 50Mbit Service Upstream Discussion
 

We may see a different modem being used on the VM network at some point in the near future though not sure about the plans regarding a combined gateway.

That gateway regrettably won't assist with upstream provision, that'll take a bit more than a change of CPE.

Re: 50Mbit Service Upstream Discussion
 

i agree with the op

Re: 50Mbit Service Upstream Discussion
 

Another operator deploying DOCSIS 3 based solutions with considerably higher upstreams than Virgin, notable is that they use the same Cisco uBR10012 that VM use in some areas:



---------- Post added at 22:17 ---------- Previous post was at 22:07 ----------

We get our arse kicked by that high tech bastion Portugal as well.

http://www.zon.pt/Internet/Detalhe.aspx?detail=XzU266

50/3, 100/6, 200/10 in cabled areas and 1000/1000 where they are deploying fibre to the home.

Re: 50Mbit Service Upstream Discussion
 

Although zon.pt charge 59,90€/month (£53.80) for 50Mbit.

Re: 50Mbit Service Upstream Discussion
 

That does include 110 TV channels and unlimited calls though. Similar price to VM pre-September price drop.

EDIT: The 100 / 6 is only 10E more which is good, and comparing the prices directly isn't really valid right now due to the pound being so weak against the Euro. Going by the rates pre-quantitative easing it presents a different story, at the more common and actually pretty generous rate of E1.25 to the pound it's just over 40GBP for the 50M, 110 TV channels and unlimited calls and 52GBP for 100/6 with the same channel and call package.