Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

they might well do if they can justify it some of those especially the gas enginiers can demand access to a house whether or not an adult is there though its very rare that they do but that could put them in the sort of position that could require crb

but as the site from the law firm points out it has to be shown it is needed

don't get me wrong i don't say that you or other as customers are wrong to want people sent to you to be safe

but i cant see at the moment a way they can do that

personaly i think that cold calling should always be done in pairs and that they should never enter a house with just one person in with out it being logged at an office level

that way there is protection for both parties as its know they are there who they are and why

i seefrom the other side too the other day ( not from virgin ) a girl called trying to sell something as it happens i was just on my way out but she would have been willing to come in to go through what ever it was , i could see no one else close if i had been some one of questionable motives it would have been easy to take advantage of that situation

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

I work for the NHS and although I dont work with really really sick people I do work with sick people e.g. Dialysis

I did have to have an enhanced CRB and was also asked during interview for the job about any convictions "spent" or "unspent".

I had to supply 2 forms of ID like tv licence and utility bill also something like original birth certificate not a replaced one and or passport, valid driving licence or marriage certificate.

They also needed 2 referee's so that they could get some individual background information.

Of course this is not VM its the NHS but the same can apply even if its not an Enhanced check they could do standard checks which the "Other relevent information" would be missing.


I do see the persons point of checks, if I understand the sales bit he says that these people do door to door sales, so in that respect they are all classed as vunerable people.

If we are talking sales over the phone then perhaps its not such a problem, although I suppose if they are dealing with it like the do in banks from what I understand they wont employ anyone with CCJ's or anyone that has been declared bankrupt because they are dealing with money.

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

A standard check reveals a lot less, and as VM Salesman is not an Exempt position, the employer is not entitled to know about spent convictions - so many of the sorts of people the OP was worried about would get through anyway, being under no obligation to give details of spent convictions even if asked.

TBH it would hardly be worth VM asking for it, especially as they would be under pressure to pay for the check to be done.

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

I once applied to work for an Agency under the terms of employment I had to pay for the CRB check myself, it was then refunded once it had come through and all was ok.

I never seen or heard of any issues with VM on anything like this but how far do you go would CRB checks apply to engineers as well, the list goes on.

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

Whats wrong with people having convictions from years ago?? You can't hold something against a person for something they did many years ago, this was the reason why the rehabilitation of offenders act came into force, any conviction which was 5 years ago is classed as spent, more seroius convictions are 10 years before they are classed as spent.

I've got a conviction on my record for something I did over 25 years ago, I've got nothing else on my record since, I'd hate for this to hold me back from gaining employment.

My recent job requires me to access the main DHL Depot at East Midlands Airport, I have a CRB clearance which allows me to go airside. When the CRB came back they didn't say anything about the conviction 25 years ago.

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

actually it may have said about it as the employer CRB statement has stuff on it you don't see on the statement they send to you but they could well have decided quite rightly it wasn't relevant any more

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

Now, admittedly the rules are a little different here in Scotland, but they're not that different - and here, there is no such thing as a 'different' background record disclosure for viewing by an employer as opposed to an employee. In fact, the DPA would make it impossible for the CRB to give information to your prospective employer and refuse to give it to you. Unless you have specific information to the contrary, I think you're incorrect on that point.

However, quite right to say that a mature employer with a robust recruitment policy would have the wherewithall to evaluate past convictions and decide on their relevance.

There is also the issue here of whether the employer is exempted from the Rehab. of Offenders Act and is therefore permitted to see an enhanced CRB check ('Enhanced Disclosure' in Scotland) which contains all details of past convictions, whether spent or not. Only certain jobs are exempted in this way.

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

oh yes there is on the employers printout there is a section on other details which can include ongoing investigations and even suspicions by officers and or old convictions they know about that they think may be relevant

as an employer myself of nursery staff i see that section i also have to sign that i wont divulge what is in that section to the person or any one else other than those involved in the procurement of staff who also sign to the same effect as it as i said can include ongoing investigations etc

this section is not in the print out they send to you

see

http://www.crb.gov.uk/default.aspx?page=1858 ( might be my conection but that page takes an age to load compared to the rest of the site )

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

That's extraordinary - and is certainly not the case north of the border. You may find that it's no longer the case in England, either, when the Safeguarding Vulnerable Groups Act becomes active later this year. It will make some significant changes to the CRB process.

Scotland's version of this Act contains specific safeguards that allow individuals not only to see the entire contents of their disclosure, but to appeal against it. If an appeal is lodged then the Chief Constable will have to justify the 'non conviction' information his officers have supplied.

The English system, in its current form, is a serious injustice just waiting to happen. I only hope they have taken the opportunity to reform that aspect of it. Unfortunately I don't know the answer to that as my current area of work is with the Scottish legislation and I've had very little interface with SVG.

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

yep lot of changes but as far as i am aware ( got another course to go on soon ( highly exciting sigh ) ) that is still part of it but some of my decision making is being taken away as now the checking body can mark people as unemployable with out me seeing why either in some circumstances

http://www.everychildmatters.gov.uk/...dingauthority/

lol the stuff i have to do and i am only a volunteer manager but now every one and their dog can sue me over every decision sigh

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

Yes - the basis of both Acts (England and Scotland) is a membership-based Scheme which people wishing to do regulated work (basically, work with children, or certain vulnerable adults) will need to join (membership is compulsory in England, but not in Scotland).

Employers will consult the Scheme to see if their applicant is a member of it or not. If the applicant is not, and is unable/unwilling to join, then the employer will have the decision effectively made for them. In England, I believe the employer may be committing an offence simply for employing someone who is not in the Scheme (not certain on that point though). In Scotland it's going to be a bit more relaxed - it's not illegal to employ a non-scheme member, but as scheme membership is the only way of proving an individual is not on one or both of the Barred From Working lists, it's going to be unsafe to employ someone who isn't in the Scheme.

I'd love to say I can offer you hints and tips to help you understand the new rules, but as I said, my work is connected with the Scottish scheme.

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

ah well and i just got confident on knowing my CRB stuff now a new load to learn and find out what i signed my life away on :confused:

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

Sigh!

Another set of forms to fill in..again.

Don't get me wrong..I'm for anything that protects children...but not every child molester actually works with children directly and I'm not sure how many it will catch out and..and in the meantime it's another hurdle for completely innocent people like me to have to jump.No doubt it will cost me to be covered by it..:erm:

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

"... at one time"

but clearly no longer to be the case, is that what your saying?

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

normally a credit reference check like the ones a bank does for a loan is done as part of the check still though you did used to have to give permission for them to see your bank details too this is no longer the case

BUT it would still be possible for them to check that if they so wished as part of the enhanced version anyway

you can see what you have to fill in here

http://www.crb.gov.uk/pdf/crb11%20guidance.pdf

just finishing mine off at the moment just got to find where the wifes hidden the marriage certificate now lol

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

Obviously.;)

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

Hi Guys

I think some are mis-understanding.

A spent conviction is spent! An unspent conviction is unspent - thats the law (spent convictions do not show on a basic CRC from Disclosure Scotland)! Also if the conviction is not relevant then it would not be considered during the recuitment process - some driving offences etc.

For example: If someone was convicted in the past and their conviction is now spent surely that means they can get on with their life (and work where they want) as it is a spent conviction (on checking this is normally 6 years).

However, as i originally posted i am refering to staff with unspent convictions.

After a month and with the knowledge of VM no action has been taken.

I am daily in contact with customers I feel are vulnerable (ie they give me bank/personal details etc). I ask again VM what are you going to do to protect these customers?

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

As has been explained here and privately current UK legislation does not allow the checks you have sugggested for the business.

If you know of specific individuals either locally or nationally that VM should be concerned about there are steps available to you. I think you are aware of them though.

If you are so concerned then do something about it, make a stand.. Its not like anything will ever come back to you.

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

as above poster pointed out what you want is not possible

and giving you bank details doesn't make them vulnerable adults there is a description here of what that means

http://www.crb.gov.uk/Default.aspx?page=400

scroll down to where it says

"Vulnerable Adults
The CRB has two definitions of a vulnerable adult, one that is entitled to an Enhanced Check and one for a Standard check."

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

Your point is correct as far as it goes, but unspent convictions are put on an enhanced disclosure. So there are certain circumstances in which a person cannot escape their past crimes.

Not correct. They shouldn't, as a matter of good recruitment practice, form part of the recruitment decision, unless they are relevant, but there is no law to prevent it.

Yes and no - if someone applies for a job that's exempted from the Rehab. of Offenders Act, then the recruiter is entitled to see an enhanced disclosure and is entitled to base their decision on it, even if all the convictions on it are spent.

Well, that's up to VM, but their options when getting disclosures on their potential staff are limited.

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

If current legislation and to quote "does not allow this" then why does Sky, British Gas, Npower and most utility companies do this?!

Sky for example do this (I have a friend who works for them door to door and was unable to have direct contact with customers until checks were complete) and work in the same marketplace as VM do.

What stand would you like me to take?

I have already made a call to VM before Xmas but as yet no resopnse?

This is getting frustrating now - almost 2000 views of this thread but still no action from VM despite views from management with VM !? :mad:

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

??? this is an independent forum, you will get no direct action from VM here :confused:

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

Even if some of the thead viewers work within VM Security and Compliance?;)

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

no - I know of VM staff who have been 'warned off' offering to help directly with stuff as mundane as connection problems via this forum - I can't imagine security/compliance issues would be any different.

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

They are aware (I have PM proof) that is enough!:)

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

In the context of this forum I'm not sure how that helps, but so long as you are happy ???

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

do you have any links for these companies where they state they need a CRB to employ people in sales ?

i find no mention of it at thier sites

i can just about see why a British gas engineer may need one as they can demand access to property to make safe an installation even if no adult was home though that must be a rare ocurance

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

i am not sure it would be something they advertise/mention on their site/s??!!:confused:

Can't ever see how the british gas engineer would want bank details? VM salespeople encounter this daily??!! And your point is??

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

they have to say if they require one and why thats why they need to state which type ( enhanced or standard or possibly basic in Scotland only ) and why they are going to get one done

you cant now get one done to carry around unless you are agency staff and the agency is then taking on as an umbrella organisation the responsibility to say you are safe

i still fail to see where any of those organisations would justify even a standard check on employees

( you read through the site and see if you can show me one section that would allow it )

i have had to deal with all that red tape since i took on this vollenteer position and know it quite well i think

if you really think every one dealling with the public where they posibly may pay for something needs to be checked its not virgin you need to be moaning at but the goverment

though you better have something better than the current CRB system in mind as it is highly flawed now as far as i am concerened as even on an advanced check you no longer need any refferies




by the way my spell check is ofline again sigh so people will have to put up with my real spelling for a bit lol

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

BULLS++T they only have to mention later in the application!!:confused:
FACT - SKY and Utilities and check - VM dont!!!!

I have just looked at the Brit Gas, Sky and Npower websites - no mention -does not mean no check???

Give it a break now? VM customers are exposed to potential "unspent" convicts - FACT! :td:

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

A pm may not necessarily be proof.

---------- Post added at 00:11 ---------- Previous post was at 00:07 ----------

The utilities (all of them) may require them as their engineers may need to enter a property whether an adult is present or not, to make the installer safe.

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

Within PM's (which I can't publish) sent to me it is obvious (due to knowledge of process) they work for VM - Even confirming which dept.

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

I wasn't asking you to publish them.. In fact, doing so without the permission of the author would be against the site Terms and Conditions.

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

So in what/which way can I not be sure?

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

People can (and some do) lie in PMs.

Not saying that anyone has lied in PM to you (I could not check even if I wanted to) but we do have people coming on here claiming to be VM Staff and asking for members personal details without us actually being able to confirm they are (we have our own method of doing this which I am not at liberty to discuss).

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

OK - but not when they give inside info which only if they work within VM they would know?:confused:

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

i think you will find that gas and maybe electric ( though it has to be an emergency as if they want to gain access to a meter they need to give two days warning ) are the only ones with a right of entry last time i checked ( i know there were some changes on who has access to your property ) the others as far as i am aware require police or court order to enter

lol if you want to see who can get in read this

http://www.jessenorman.com/downloads...-Threshold.pdf

the story at the bottom titled "A DAY IN THE LIFE OF A BRITISH SUBJECT" has made me laugh

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

PM'd OP

For potential customers peace of mind, appropriate checks are now carried out for staff specifically those dealing with Credit Card details and entering the home.

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

Virgin salesman, i would not employ you in my company, i'd rather take the chance of employing one of the staff you mention with previous convictions.
At least they would not be going out of thier way to cause unrest between colleagues of the work force.
Jobsworth, busy body and pompous ass are a few of the terms that spring to mind, as well as a few others, but i won't post expletives on the site.

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

So be it John, but unless you are running a major direct sales operation in the UK I doubt I will have the chance of working for your "company"!?:o:

You may feel I am "going out of my way" to address this issue but I dont look at it like that. I am within the top 5% of VM sellers in the country. If you would welcome convicts in your home then thats your choice. I work hard and want to work with people who are going to give VM the right reputation. We still have hundreds of people working in direct sales (including me) within VM remaining unchecked.

You are allowed your point of view but I doubt the potential customers of VM would feel the same way!? As for "Jobsworth" it is my obligation to let VM know of this issue.

By the way, whats your address? I will send round one of my convict colleagues - he will take your credit card details, place your VM order followed by a great night out on you and your details sold to the highest internet bidder (you being a company owner and all - he may get good price)!:)

Let me know - I will sort you out!;)

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

erm, you seem to contradict your self, when you say "As for "Jobsworth" it is my obligation to let VM know of this issue", when in earlier posts, you state you would not talk to HR or GSID.

This is not an official VM forum, so probably doesn't count as letting VM know.

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

No, it doesn't.

---------- Post added at 09:22 ---------- Previous post was at 09:20 ----------

Can I ask you. How do they manage this where they have outsourced call centres to other countries?

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

It's worth mentioning that back in post #22 I offered to pass the information you had on to Cable Forum's contacts in VM. That was more than a month ago. To date you have not taken me up on this offer (which still stands btw).

It makes me wonder how on earth you plan to let Virgin Media know about this 'issue'.

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

Thanks for the offer Russ - yes please pass on the info.

Re: Virgin Salespeople with Criminal Records
 

You need to send me a detailed PM with all the information you have.