Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Yes, there was a long thread about it around here earlier in the year, where the usual MP3 thieves, movie downloaders, speed limit breakers, etc, etc, got all carried away with self-righteous indignation about the fact that anyone would break the law and "steal" from the cable companies like that. :)

It doesn't sound like VM have any real long-term options to keep piracy under control with their current system. If the boxes can be updated manually, it's surely just a matter of days or hours before they're back to doing it automatically again.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Just to let you know that most of the boxes are up and running again, there was a in flux of ppl running around like headless chickens trying to find out a fix. minor little code change nothing that the coders can't handle.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

I dont know if you are aware your IP can be traced to your location, just be aware of what you post on a public forum

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

...and, hopefully, the reason why this person has been allowed to continue with his gloating on this forum is because the authorities are currently tracing his IP and address.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

i'm betting that he has that all thought out to :mad:

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

He hasn't done or said anything that would require anyone to hand over his personal details or trace his location.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

but he is using dodgy equipement so it wont be his IP address anyone traces

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

For all you know I could be using a laptop connecting to the internet via someone internet connection, wifi perhaps. not reliable source. what would vm do do anyway if you have a dogy box hundrads of ppl have them. However if you sell these for a living then your asking for it, which i don't. Anyway I'm tired of this arguing. I'm going back to my day job.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

What goes around comes around. Karma and all that.

TBH VM probably aren't really bothered by the likes of you anyway as you aren't the kind of person who would pay anyway, so it isn't like they have lost a customer. [Removed].

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

That's never been scientifically proven.

That's actually the ones they are concerned about. They're far less likely to take issue with people who actually pay a minimum subscription for the feed into their house, even if they leech the rest. Those are customers they're at least making some money from.

[removed]

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

My point is that if a customer goes from a full sub to minimum and then installs a 'super box' then VM are losing revenue.

Leaching **** that would not have cable unless it was totally free are not a financial loss are they?

Apart from the drain on the network itself VM are not losing revenue from these people.

---------- Post added at 16:37 ---------- Previous post was at 16:36 ----------

Neither has God but the majority of the worlds population believe in some form or another.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

read his furture posts

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

They're making money from the £10(?) minimum subscription. They're not making any money from people who leech without paying for any services whatsoever.

As I've explained in the various religion threads, reality is not determined by way of democracy, or indeed geographically or sociologically induced superstition, but that's another topic, so let's stick to the piracy issue. I think it's astonishing how some people can be so self-righteous about things like these, when they commit similar, often far more serious offenses themselves on a daily basis.

Still nothing.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Please Please let this be true :D

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

looks if so its true, from reports another "code" change has happened and i think that makes it 2 for today,

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

I hope they can keep it up, and that it causes much fun and merriment* for the people stealing the service.

Even if it keeps getting broken, as long as it causes a few hours downtime every time it might end being more effort than it's worth - even just 15 minutes of mucking around a day soon adds up to costing more in time than the "saving" made by stealing the service.


*By which I mean much downtime and mucking about.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Looking around the various forums, it appears auto updating systems which handled today's code change were back in the game from yesterday, so it's back to the drawing board for Virgin. Last time they managed a major hit was April(?), which, as I understand it, meant people could still manually update their systems, and auto updating systems were back in a matter of days, which have apparently handled every code change since then, some of which very daily, assume key rolls and code changes are the same.

I don't understand all the jargon, so any of out resident pirates should feel free to correct me, but it sounds to me like the systems used by pirates, the emulators, do exactly what the name suggests; emulate original systems, but not flawlessly, so the cable companies can find and exploit weaknesses in the emulation, which was what they managed to do in April and a couple of days ago. But when they do, those flaws are apparently easily corrected by whomever creates these emulators, and it becomes increasingly difficult for the cable companies to find new weaknesses with each successful hit.

It really sounds like VM have no shot of winning this game, until they're prepared to invest in an encryption system that hasn't been completely comprised, but this would greatly increase their costs, and they're apparently not really making money off their TV product as it is, and I doubt their customers would appreciate the cost being passed off to them. I suspect Virgin just feel compelled to try one of these major hits every once in a blue moon to get some press coverage that might keep their content providers happy.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Virgin have already stated they plan to replace the Conditional Access System (i.e Nagravision 2) when they change their TV platform starting next year

Virgin Media chief executive Neil Berkett told investors last week that he wanted "next generation" delivery and conditional access systems to be rolled out on its network in 2009 and 2010.

He said the ongoing switch-off of analogue cable was part of the process: "Not only do you get the bonding advantages of DOCSIS 3.0 (the cable transmission standard), you get the bandwidth freed up. So in that respect we don't see ourselves as being bandwidth constrained.

"We can see us completing that journey through 2008 and 2009 as well as replacing our television platform in 2009 and 2010, and moving to next generation TV, next generation conditional access systems."

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

That links to a quote in a forum, which a poster later pointed out was from a Techwatch article dated 8th April.

It looked like a current article, as there were indeed 2 keyrolls yesterday.

http://www.techwatch.co.uk/2008/04/0...s-cable-boxes/

.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

had it on good authority that a fix has already been worked out for the D-boxes :( reminds me of my teachers report from primary school 'must try harder' :D

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Anyone with these "dodgy" boxes are theives, pure and simple... It doesn't matter if people think the packages are expensive from VM, so they get want them "free" instead... these are the same people who think it's ok to steal MP3's on the net and kick up a fuss when VM/record co's write to them with a warning!

Theft is theft! These people are common thieves! :mad:

I hope VM keep up with these attacks on these boxes!

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

well guys I had some good news yesterday, I've been offred a job in switzerland with the Kudelski group as a encryption support analysis, i'll be playing a part in developing future version of nagra vision smartcards used in todays digital world, and yes that includes VM smartcards. :p::p:

I'll tell you all about it soon.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Thees so called 'theives' are of more use to VM staff than what you think!

The fact that you think they are Just theives highlights your ignorance in this particular situation.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

theft is theft mate... and I am not ignorant to this situation at all, thanks. :rolleyes: What makes you think these thieves are helpful to Virgin Media? :confused:

This kind of theft was one of the reasons for ONdigitals (later ITVdigital) demise... how can a load of people not paying a subscription possibly benefit VM?

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Well how about educating us then? I would love to know just how they are so useful to VM...

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Me too :)

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Some things are best left unsaid - in this case anyway!

i can't be too specific, but don't assume they are all theives.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Then you can't back up your claim, so don't attack anyone who calls them thieves. thanks.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

I have to say you are right. I am sure most of them are not just thieves some may be fathers ,coal miners ,bankers ,jockeys policement, possibly even mp's and loads of other things but if they watch cable on dodgy boxes they are also thieves ;)

please feel free to read the definition of a thief you may well learn something ;)

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en...ition&ct=title

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Are you saying that they are VM employees working undercover? :erm:

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

If it's there for the taking, it will be taken.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Good point Fugazi raised, VM can also learn a thing or two from ppl doing this sort of things, I know quite a few ways how vm can secure there existing system, but it's all about money.

I don;t class this as theiving, if something is in your house in this case a cable connection you got the right to do what ever you want regardless.

A theif is someone who breaks into your own house, steals things and then batty rapes you.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Another member for my ignore list - why do they bother???

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

that is utter tosh and its also thief i before e except after c

it does not matter if you class it as thieving. The law is above you and that decides not you

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

the law in this country is out dated and quite frankly a load of old tosh. All this country is worried about is draining money out of you left right and centre. The tax man is the thief m8 not me.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

it is still the law rightly or wrongly

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

It's ntl/virgins' fault for not being able to secure their product.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

so if I am pickpocketed its my fault for not having my wallet in my hand? its the shopkeepers fault for not having a mars bar locked away? Enuff we all have free will we choose if we are going to do good or do bad. Each and everyone of us makes the choice. Why lie about it and say its not theft? why try to make out the perpetrators are innocent they are not? It makes no difference to me if someone steals cable honestly I do not care I got more important things in my life going on. These guys are just peeing on my shoes and saying its raining

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Oh no not that hoary old chestnut...

So unless something is locked away it is fair game for anyone to just take it..EVEN THOUGH IT IS NOT THEIR PROPERTY.

Sorry that doesn't carry any weight.If you haven't purchased or inherited something it not yours to just take just because you want it.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

it is true, however, some ppl do take the **** and are greedy, VM only loses money when ppl with chipped boxes order ppv , and it gets billed to the person who was assigned with that set top box. These are the people who are theives because vm end paying for films which are booked but not paid for as VOD is controlled by a different company so I have heard.

---------- Post added at 00:53 ---------- Previous post was at 00:51 ----------

what would you do, if you found a £20 note would you keep it or hand it in?

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Honestly I would pocket it but you will not see me anywhere on this forum profess to be sweetness and light.If I saw the person drop it I would tell them though

You do not find the cable tv signal (you see I know whats coming next ;)) you actively purchase steal or otherhow obtain equipment capable of decrypting a signal. You see you decrypt so you change the state in which you "find" it so I am sorry but your analogy falls at the first hurdle

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

I go to the shop on my bike, I leave it outside the shop, someone takes it.
I get another bike, I go to the shop on my bike, I leave it outside the shop, someone takes it. Again I have to get another bike. I go to the shop on my bike, I leave it outside the shop, someone takes it.

I get another... I go to the shop on my bike, I leave it outside the shop, but this time I use a good lock and chain to secure it to a lamp post, no [removed] takes it. Lesson learned.

ntl/vm fail to secure their bike to the post over and over again! Knowing full well that someone will, given half a chance, take it. And they still fail to get a good lock and chain! No lesson learned.

[do not bypass the swear filter]

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

i thought it's the law you have to hand it in to the police station and if its not claimed in 3 mths then it becomes yours, if you pocket it then its theft. We all steal something one way or another.

However i do purchase the signal , i actually pay £25 a mth for phone,tv, bb, so I am not stealing the signal, its not that im not paying anything to vm.

anyway i only watch tv 3-2 hrs a day if that mostly im on the net or out. TV is there for the footy.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

However it's cannot be claimed by those that steal the bike that it isn't stealing because you didn't lock your bike up...it is not an excuse.A reason yes albeit a crappy one but not an excuse.Stealing is stealing especially when you do NOT have permission to take something.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

you would get someone come over with something to cut it and nick it (analogy to go with decryption hacks) and where you go next is you buy a bigger lock and then Ill come back with ill nick some professional cutters off the fire brigade and cut resulting in still stealing your bike.

The encryption is code. No matter what code or whatever is in place someone will be clever enough to crack it. Look at securom 3? how long did it take to crack but it still was

---------- Post added at 01:13 ---------- Previous post was at 01:13 ----------

as I said I hold my hands up and do not try to feed the bull.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

It does not matter that you pay only for part of what you receive.If you take more than you are paying for it is still stealing.You do not have permission to have more than you have agreed to pay for.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

LOL that is true, at then end of the day if vm cared so much they would have stopped this along time ago, but quite frankly they dnt care at the moment, they will in a few years when the HD channels starts rolling out fully.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

as I said whatever VM it will be crackable eventually

when VHS was new my Dad built a macrovision patching box that mimicked the waveband and made the system think it was an original cassette. We did this to back up what we owned of course as VHS was poop but of course we copied a few of our mates but that was 20 years ago ;)

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

No matter how you wriggle and deny it, you are a thief.You may not like the term but it is the only description that fits.You are typical of so many criminals..you blame the victim when the onus is entirely on you..It is not VM's fault you set out to steal by breaking the codes,it is YOUR fault.

Be honest and stop trying to BS me..I've heard every form of chopped logic for 34 years from those of far more wit and intelligence than you are presently displaying.:rolleyes:

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

I agree, but we know the type of ****ty world we live in, and if we don't stay one step ahead of the criminals, then we are asking for whatever trouble comes our way. If a person forgets to set their house alarm and leaves the front and back doors wide open, the chances are they'll have been robbed by the time they get back home. I blame the thief, but I also blame the person who didn't make sure the house was secure before they left.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

:clap:

Well said Maggy!

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Perhaps if we had zero tolerance for the usual crap attitude that we get from the law breaking **** that we are to blame if we do not secure our property then maybe we wouldn't have to keep making our homes impregnable at great expense and pay out hefty insurance premiums when the idle lazy swine decide that our property is just laying around behind our locked front door and therefore is fair game.Short of making a home like fort Knox at a vast expense there is no way to make your property totally secure.

VM do secure their property..it's just that those who don't want to pay for it will find any means they can of breaking in and then claim that VM didn't make it secure enough.It's a very circular argument that some seem to accept as being perfectly reasonable.Well it's not.:mad:

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

There's no question that, legally speaking, stealing cable is indeed a form of theft, just not a very serious form of theft. It's not something the legal system, or even the cable companies themselves take all that seriously in terms of prosecuting it. In fact, a recent newspaper article on the subject stated that no individual users of dodgy boxes have ever been successfully convicted, only people who profit by selling boxes, cards and related services and products, so it's one of those things where I find the almost absurd level of outrage quite surprising, considering that 95%, if not more, of the outraged people have committed what in the eyes of the law, and for our resident bible-huggers, in the eyes of the Lord, are considerably more serious crimes. ;)

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

And this week's winner of the "Richard of the week" award is........

Supremus! :D


for taking a subject so far off topic just to insult some of the CF members that it's in a different time-zone. ;)

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Nope. Legally speaking it's not theft at all.

It's an offence of "fraudulently receiving programmes" and is covered by the copyright act and not the theft act.

Theft requires you to permanantly deprive the owner of something.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

I'm amazed at that comment.

So, are supermarkets to now lock their doors to customers to prevent shop lifting?

---------- Post added at 11:38 ---------- Previous post was at 11:33 ----------

Like money you haven't handed over for watching channels?

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Nope, that doesn't count as it can't be proven that if you couldn't get the channels for free you'd have paid for them, so they can't show you're depriving them of income.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

That's a very specious argument.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

It is irrelevant which act applies. It IS theft and it IS an offence. End of..

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Nope, they just hire store security fit lots of CCTV and have detectors at the exits.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Why should they?..and guess who pays for the extra security?Not the thieving lazy,bone idle **** who do the stealing that's for sure..it's the legit customers who pay a few pence here and there in increased prices on the goods...money that they have had to work hard to earn...:mad:

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Sad isn't it... but like I said before, we live in a *****y world.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

There's no difference in taking cable TV without paying to taking electricity without paying - do you do that as well?

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

True, you do have a point about the exact definition of the term "theft", but my comment was really more aimed at highlighting how relatively unimportant an offense this is, both in the eyes of the law and the cable companies.

I'd like to thank God, my parents, and everyone who believed in me... :)

It's not an insult, it's a term of endearment, and the general point is entirely relevant, since people's personal values and beliefs are crucial to how they perceive and justify their own actions and misdeeds.

There's a considerable difference, actually. If you have a minimum subscription, the signal the cable company sends into your house contains every single channel. There's no more or less drain on that resource, whether you're watching BBC1 legally, or using a dodgy box to watch a channel you haven't subscribed to. Clearly that's a very different issue from electricity, where you're obviously draining a finite resource.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

It doesn't matter how unimportant you view it as a crime it is still a crime and if prosecuted you still have a record.

As for the insult bit you are just using verbiage to try and cover the fact that you are just talking for the sake of appearing clever...

And your last point is entirely irrelevant..as usual...

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

I agree.

I am clever, I can't help it.

No, it isn't. It's very relevant to the topic, since I'd suggest that the main reason a company like VM would be getting serious on piracy is because they're contractually obligated to their content providers to provide a reasonable level of security for their content. Let's say half of EON's customers were getting their electricity without paying for it, that would be a considerable drain on the company's resources, and it would hurt their bottom line. This is not the case for VM. As long as they're pumping the signal into your home anyway, there's no more or less drain on their resource, whether you watch the channels you're subscribed to or leeching premium channels. It's not costing them anything extra. It's for all intents and purposes an infinite source, as long as you have the cable there legally in the first place.

So when we're talking about getting serious on dodgy boxes, as per the subject, it's no coincidence that individual users are merely getting warning letters, and people who sell the illegal products and services are getting visits from the police waving search warrants around. That's where they're getting serious, because those sort of raids produce news stories that will satisfy their content providers. Going after or getting tough with individual users is nonsensical and not at all cost effective. If they wanted to get tough with known, individual users, they'd send a guy out to cut their signal from the box in the street, Instead they try the code changes we've heard about recently, where the aim is to take out as many of these dodgy systems as possible, and with individual, known leechers, all it takes is the cost of a stamp to send them a letter intended to scare them into going straight, as in paying for the service they're currently leeching. I don't know how successful the letter tactic is, but I think these are all important factors to consider in a discussion about where and why the cable companies are really getting serious. Considering the cost of upgrading the security on their network, it makes far more financial sense to try and live up to their contractual obligations to their content providers with the sort of tactics we've seen recently, but as we all know, it realistic terms, there's really nothing serious about what they're doing.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Laus in proprio ore sordescit.

I always have taken the view that praise is more valid if said by others, as, imho, self-praise is no recommendation; in fact, it could easily be mistaken for empty boasting. :D

Self-praise is like onanism - you may find it enjoyable, but others would rather not watch you do it. ;)

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

I think we had abide by David's request folks...

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Apparently, the codes have been changed 3 times today? They seem to be starting to sort it because they've also been changing them for the last few days.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Nope, it's a very correct one.

You're not taking money from them as they never had your money in the first place.

No, it's very relevant which act applies, as the theft act DOESNT, it's NOT theft, however it IS an offence.

Infact, saying someone who uses dodgy boxes is a thief is technically slander.

You can't "End of" and expect to be right when you're wrong. You might think it's theft, but you're wrong.

Indeed, my point just shows how even more unimportant it actually is. It's nowhere near theft on the punishment scale, and most of the time you'd just get a fine, or even a police caution for it.


Now, to get back on topic, anyone else notice they're really pushing the report dodgy boxes thing? there was a section in Play that was with this months bill about reporting people with them. I wonder how many people will actually bother as a huge amount of people seem pretty open about having them and in near enough every pub you can find someone who can sort you out with one so it's not like people are hiding underground with them.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Did not take them long to get a proper fix to keep the boxes on did it.

3 Hours, what a waste of time that was.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

But they've changed the codes like 4 times today. I'm sure that will be annoying the hell outta them.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

No because the fix that's out auto updates again, not gonna bother them losin channels for less than 5 mins 4 times/day.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

I don't know what Play is, but there's no downside for the cable companies in sending out snitch requests like that. Doesn't cost them a thing, and it makes it seem like they're being pro-active in cracking down on piracy. If they really wanted to get serious, though, they'd send some people out to disconnect the thousands of live cable feeds they have going into non-subscriber homes, or maybe even make some sort of effort to collect old set top boxes, so they don't end up chipped at car boot sales or wherever people get these things from. One of my friends used to be a Cable & Wireless customer, but cancelled his service many years ago, and he still has his two Pace boxes. Nobody even bothered asking for them back. VM may have stepped up their efforts a little bit, but I wouldn't really say it amounts to getting serious. I'd be interested in seeing them try to prosecute individual users, if only as a scare tactic or to set a legal precedent. The trouble is, if they're not successful, which could very well be the case, they would lose the ability to scare people with bluff letters threatening legal action.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Yeah.. I hope it is annoying them.. they need to keep this up and also think of otherways to disrupt their illegal activity!

:bsmack:

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

As Fatec pointed out, the autoupdate file has been patched. Anyone who has installed this patch wouldn't have even noticed the key changes today.

The only ones who will be getting annoyed are those that don't know how to install the patch. Shame. :D

.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Only thing VM can do is change the Nagra 1 encryption used to say Nagra 3 even then it has been hacked on the continent. Mind you if updating to this encryption coupled with a firmware update would speed up my shonky Samsung 2100 then :). But a change in encryption will be costly to a company already 4.3 billion in the red as new cards would be required to be sent out at a cost and also the N3 encryption would cost them also. I would also think there would be the hassle to the normal subscriber as cards and boxes need to be paired so they could get some very angry customers if 1 their card does not turn up/is not paired correctly with their box. It also depends if they think it will actually increase revenue enough to make it worthwhile or if these people who take the signal atm and are on a basic subscription would move over to sky if they are forced to pay for TV as atm Sky has the best HD content available to watch (excluding On Demand from VM)

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

No it hasn't and CS doesn't count.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Re read looks like its card sharing not encryption break. Did another search. Looks like it has been part compromised already.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

That depends on which court you wish to prosecute in.

Not true.

Section 16(2)(a) of the Theft Act 1968 actually covers this but it was repealed, but the the principle of obtaining pecuniary advantages (where you should have paid for something but didn't) remains in Theft Act 1978.

For the context of this thread, the relevant section would be;

Section 1.

Obtaining services by deception.

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1978...9780031_en.pdf

VM could prosecute under either act (and relevant court) above. Of course the burden of proof is far greater in a criminal court, and the accused has the option of a trial by jury and the costs involved are prohibitive (and no g'tee of a conviction) compared the 51% needed in a civil court (where you can claim for damages and is a heck of a lot cheaper) hence the reason why organisations nearly always opt for the civil route.

It is indeed theft, as stated under section 1 of chapter 31 of the Theft Act 1978.

And for those who wish to understand this in real English rather than the jargon that is legalese here is a nice article regarding this from auntie beeb.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A580312


INAL ( ;) )

PS, did anyone read the news today where a russian businessman trade marked the ; - ) and states that as : - ) and other deratives are similar they too fall under his licensing terms. Ho ho ho. Merry christmas :) (TM)

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

No. It doesn't.

3rd party boxes ARE NOT obtaining a service by deception. Deception would be telling them you'll pay for them, have them give you the services, and then not paying. It'd be something like sending them a fake cheque, it'd be doing anything where they believe you will be paying for the service, but then you fail to do so. There is no deception involved with connecting a 3rd party box as VM are not aware of the matter so can not have been decieved to the fact that you intended to pay.

This is the very reason why it's a specific crime in its own right, if it was covered in the theft act there wouldn't have been a need to create a seperate crime for it.

Even if it was covered by it it still wouldn't make it theft. The theft act covers far more crimes than just acts of theft, and very clearly defines theft, and thief in it's very first paragraph:

"A person is guilty of theft if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it; and 'thief' and 'steal' shall be construed accordingly."

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

And don't forget people that property is defined as:



my Bold :)

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Waits for the ping pong match with the don and Rob M.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

I don't play games ;)

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Surely you mean "whiff whaff" ;)

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

To quote a former CF colleague .

Capeesh?

In other words this thread is not about whether it's theft or not..it's about Virgin Media's attempts to deal with illegal chipped boxes being used on their system.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Is it still financially viable for Virgin to catch people with chipped boxes?

I ask that question because ntl used to make a token effort to catch these people, just enough to keep the program providers off their back. It was due to the fact that the program provider pricing to ntl meant more £ from a basic subscriber than they made from a customer taking a premium package.

In the older days customers who subscribed to the basic package but had a chipped box to receive premium services were a good money spinner for ntl, and the effort to catch them was mainly hot air.

Those legally paying for the full service earned the company less money than those stealing.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

If that is the case, then all that needs to be said is Virgin WILL be taking steps to stop chipped boxes.

Just because they don't tell everyone what they are doing, doesn't mean they are ignoring the issue ;)

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

oh boy, that tickles!

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

As far as I am aware none of the boxes are chipped and they have not been since the analogue days. VM boxes are modified and 3rd party boxes are modified via firmware. Unless something has changed since last time anyone told me anything about them the only chips these boxes have seen come with a fish supper

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Nitpicking. Whether chipped or not, they are still used to obtain services that are not being paid for (even taking into account the fact that most hacks require a basic subscription, they may still be used to access premium channels).

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Actually they dont afaik the only reason people pay a sub is stay off the radar. I know people who have modified VM boxes and only a BB sub(and these were installed by VM staff on their day off). I do not condone this BTW. This subject is surrounded by myth and obviously can not be talked about on this forum but a lot of what those who do not know believe is totally off track

As far as nitpicking is concerned call it education. I do not profess to know that much about it but I know some

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Taking of a basic service is purely to ensure that the cable connection to the house stays there, otherwise VM can disconnect your feed from the cabinet at their leisure.

None of the equipment used for obtaining TV illegally requires a basic service, it's the same signal hitting the home whatever the subscription, or lack of.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Hey I don't care that's up to them man and they will pay for it when they get caught with a heavy fine. I pay for my virgin media and would like to record cartoons for my kids.I bought a dvb-t digital tv pci card but for some reason the media centre doesn't find the channel its perfect on a standard tv so why carn't the pc find the signal.Had it 3 months cost me £60 and not even seen anything work.Even though the device manager says its working.pls help

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

winny1977, this might be better posted in the VM Cable TV forum or the General IT Discussion forum than here