Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

In terms of common sense and subtlety, I think she's the thesist equivalent of Dawkins.

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

She's an ignorant idiot and for the sake of all would be better if someone told her to shut up i found most of her criticisms of personality could be applied to anyone including people of faith. I also find it highly distasteful for anyone to use the tragic events of baby p to try and make a completely stupid point about a group of people she obviously knows very little about.

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

And it goes without saying that the same could be said about plenty of other people regardless of faith.

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

I'm not a religious person, however, if you are going to live by a set of rules - then some of these 10 are a pretty good start, the non-religious ones,.eg

Honor your father and your mother

you shall not kill

Neither shall you commit adultery

Neither shall you steal

Neither shall you bear false witness against your neighbour

Neither shall you covet your neighbour's wife

Neither shall you desire your neighbor's house

All very good and you don't need a supreme being to tell you that either


That is so wrong I can't believe it. She is saying that without religion there is no meaning to life????

The meaning of life comes from within, to be good, kind and generous. Love someone, if possible, have a family. Enjoy yourself and others.

It's all about what you do when you're here because, I believe, that's it. What's the point in worrying about what may or may not happen when you expire, I suppose that's why you need a certain kind of faith. I don't have that kind of faith, I don't need it.

Non of which has anything to with religion. Shall we go back to the good old, so called moral days?

Girls sent away/locked away because they are pregnant? back street abortions? kids taken away from their mothers.

Don't get me wrong I agree with all the problems she has identified and society is heading off the rails like a runaway train but religion isn't the cure all.

The "no responsibility" generation are to blame, along with the nanny state. If you can't afford to have kids you shouldn't have them, you certainly shouldn't get "paid" by the state to look after, say, more than two.

The benefit culture is what needs to be addressed, leave religion out of it.

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

I would ignore her. People who invoke nihilism and then complain that people don't believe something because it makes them feel better are beyond seeing their own hypocrisy.

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

Of course it's a sweeping generalisation that theists have caused all the trouble on the planet which is pretty much what is being currently said and implied by many 'militant' atheists...

It's still true that us atheists have no better handle on life than any other group though. ;)

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

Erm yes, but that's not what she said, or implied.

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

I have never met an atheist that claimed to have any better way of running things purely that they didn't believe in a god of any sort and other then that there is no difference between them and people of faith in how they live their life to suggest otherwise shows total ignorance.

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

Plenty of them want religion kept out of schools, which I'm pressuming they think is a better way of running things.

Ignorance is exclusive of beliefs (or lack of).

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

Depends how the religion is presented and taught.

Most, but the most militant, I'm sure would have no problem with R.E. that teaches children about ALL the main faiths around the world. In fact I think it is essential in todays world.

What I am against is creationism and I.D. being taught as fact.

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

" life without a spiritual sense of purpose, or the moral parameters set by the Ten Commandments -- is a living hell."



moral parameters ! presumably the same moral perameters as used by the catholic priesthood, when there abusing small boys. :mad::mad::mad:

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

Creationism and ID are a different matter. But as for 'militants', I can only surmise that there's a lot of them on CF if those are the parameters.

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

Poor Mary should note that the social ills for which she blames atheism, began at a time of mass religious delusion in this country. It was under that mass delusion that the rape and disgusting abuse of children was tolerated. It was the church, under the guidance of Ratzinger, which implemented a policy of collusion with clerical sex abuse, reckoning that the public perception of the church was more important than the suffering of children. Suffer the little children indeed. It was the church that presided over the evaporation of moral behaviour in this land, and it has nothing to do with atheism.

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

:notopic:

Not this old chestnut again. :rolleyes:

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

She's sticking up for Christianity itself, not 'the church'.

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

the truth is not a chestnut

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

Speaking of which, why aren't paedophilia and rape on the list?

Or was there another tablet that was dropped and broken on Mount Sinai?

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

Samo,samo...all the wars were the fault of religion,all the abuse is the fault of religion.Everything bad is down to religion and all people of all faiths.

Every good deed done in the name of religious faith is totally ignored.:rolleyes:

Yes we atheists are capable of being good moral upright people BUT we don't have the ownership of morals or being honest wonderful people.WE are as capable of truly awful behaviour as many theists are.

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

Be responsible for your life and use the word I not we.

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I don't know, ask Moses

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

I atheist is not grammatically correct and as I'm an atheist I have every right to use we atheists...because not all atheists are militant against people of a religious persuasion...I'm not on my own in other words.

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

Exactly, there's a major difference between teaching people about religions and forcing them to participate or forcing beliefs onto them.

Increasing people's knowledge and experiences in a balanced and honest way can only be a good thing.

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

Well the time has come to leave this thread as it is as predicted gone down the same worn out oft travelled road these type of threads always go down :(. This really isn't a topic that can ever be rationally debated on CF as there are just way too many people looking for the slightest thing to get defensive about. Also way too much attacking of anything other then what some members believe in i really can't be bothered anymore. Each to their own whatever that may be and lets all just get along.

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

In honour of Mary Kenny

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2...t_bashing.jpeg

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

You may be surprised to hear that a great many of the Christians I know, including ones whose job is to offer their services to schools to take assemblies or contribute to RE lessons, entirely agree with you.

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

You only have to attend one of their dreary humanist funerals to see that – I am never going to another of those, just to be made miserable. Quote by Mary Kenny. So is she elated normally at funerals?.

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

Doesn't suprise me at all.

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

Seems like this is in the news again..... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7818980.stm

The outcome of Christian Voice's complaint should be interesting to say the least.

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

Maybe I object to adverts damming me to hell? Stupid Christian Voice, no problem with their ads being shown, but complain if someone elses is.

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

Bit silly imho. The campaign started two days ago and not seen any mention of it in national (not local) news. The number of places seems to have morphed into something more ambitious than originally stated. Apparently there are some in Sheffield but I haven't seen any.

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

I just find the whole conversation between fanatical atheist and theist totally boring and immensely tedious.

There are enough divisions in the world without coming up with another

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

The danger of Christian Voice's action is that they, I assume, will have to prove the existence of God for their claim to succeed. I think they should have just left it alone.

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

lol find it quite funny that Richard Dawkins and his friends arnt sure enough about their beliefs to put "THERE IS NO GOD" and rather opted for the word "PROBABLY"

Its also quite funny that Stephen Green is not sure that god "Vengence is mine" cant take care of himself if need be and is complaining about the adverts

ive seen better debates name calling on the school yard ;)

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

The word 'Probably' was a wise choice, it will make it difficult for Christian Voice to be successful. They used it because no matter how strong your atheism is, you cannot disprove god (in fact, you can't prove a negative anyway)

I just find Christian Voice's actions rather hypocritical, this campaign was started in a response to their adverts about people going to hell. What is the difference other than this campaign is not as nasty?

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

Dawkins is well known to prefer the phrase "almost certainly". Probably may be amusing to some as it is already in popular use in carlsberg ads so it's an addition whilst keeping entirely with advertising culture.

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

I dont know what the rules are regarding religious advertising, but lets assume Christian Voice succeed in this action which is based on the following:

could someone then take the Church to court about adverts outside churches using the same argument as their basis to a claim. How will the Church prove that hell exists?

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

It is so going to end up as something silly but your post reminded me of Royston Vasey in The League of Gentlemen, especially with the boards outside churches :D.

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

Christian voice are rather nutty. A quick google will reveal what I mean. They are merely using this for media coverage.

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

I see what you mean, just read the first two paragraphs on their website...its just an updated version of the guy with a sandwich board walking around claiming that "we are all doomed, doomed I tell's yer".:nutter:

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

Who cares......?

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

Well the sooner people realise it's best to ignore them, the sooner this thread dies.

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

So whose up for a bit of ignoring then?

I'm game. :tu:

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

Looks like I spoke too soon. The "distinguished religious affairs commentator Clifford Longley" has complained too. Giving it a tiny degree of credibility:rolleyes:

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

:LOL: He quotes a couple of Scientists that support ID and therefore concludes that it would be fair and true to say "there probably is a God". Never mind the fact that the majority of Scientists would be hard pressed to deduce intentionality from complexity.

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

It's far worse than that. Some of the people he quotes are atheists.

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

:rofl: :D

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

It's far worse than that, nearly all of the people he quotes are very famous people who are well known to be Atheists. Using Hoyle is par for the course but they are/were all well known atheists apart from this Scania who I don't recognise the name.

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

I've never understood why people quote Hoyle. He is more famous (amongst the public) for his mistakes rather than his successes.

If I were going to make an argument from authority, I'd try to put Hoyle on the other side.

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

that just puts them further into the "no faith in thier conviction" territory to me lol

as to Christian voice lol i already said what i think ;)

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

If anything will cause a lot of aggro, it will be this, whatever your belief, it is up to you, how you go about it, there are a lot of charities out there, that could have used this money to good effect, like the homeless and the vulnerable people.

I have prayed many times, when l have had to, but this is my belief, you don't have to go to church, to pray, and you certainly don't need too take the advice off the back of a bus. I would suggest the CFT took this one of, in case you get some really sick answers to the question, and brings this forum into disrepute.

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

"I have prayed many times"
did any-one answer

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

No? papa smurf:)

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

Some people don't pray to be answered, they pray to be heard.

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

Deleted

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

It begins!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/h...re/7832647.stm

I'd advise the armchair experts to read it all before posting - he has agreed to only drive a bus with that advert on if none other are available, so he is not refusing to do his job.

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

I wonder if First Bus are willing to extend this policy to Atheists who don't want to drive buses with religious advertising...

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

I wonder if someone with an athiest T-shirt on would be refused entry onto his bus because there's probably another bus due along soon????

Sorry but he's contracted to drive a bus, not agree/disagree with the advertising on the bus...

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

I think if any atheists felt strongly enough about the pro-God adverts, they'd have already raised their objections. Any attempts now by them to have something similar is highly likely to be just tit-for-tat.

I guess the Christian got in there first ;)

And so he will. If no other bus is available then he'll drive the one with that advert on. It's the bus company being sensitive to someone's needs that's all. No-one is being inconvenienced.

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

Except that on the first day when the bus company didn't have a spare bus, he took it upon himself to just go home.
Its just another example of people letting their personal beliefs affect their work, I'm sure that in his contract there's no clause excusing him from driving a bus if he doesn't like that weeks particular advertising.
Also Russ I'd say exactly the same if the driver was an atheist who didn't want to drive a bus saying Jesus saves, the point is hundreds of drivers down the years must have disagreed with bus advertising and if they'd have said no to doing their job I expect they'd have been given their P45, and rightly so.

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

He's not disagreed to doing his job - a compromise has been found which inconveniences no-one.

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

i would have thought driving the buss would be a good test of his faith,he could sit there comfortable in the knowledge that the advert [in his eyes is false]

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

I'm sure it's not his own faith he would have been concerned about. Just a guess though.

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

not that often you hear of an atheist who refuses to do something because it supports a faith (ie, an atheist bus driver not driving the bus because it has a christian message on it)....

personally, I don't see what his beef was about. He knows he is a christian. I'm assuming that God knows he is one too. The advert on the bus does not represent his personal view and I doubt anyone would think it did.

To be totally honest, I think that if the media had not hyped up the whole thing in the first place (about the adverts making an appearance), I don't think many people would have even realised they were on the sides of buses. let's be truthful, we are so swamped by ads these days we filter them out as best we can to the point where they can really be invisible. Who remembers the advert on the side of the very last bus you saw? not the last ad you remember seeing on a bus, but the ad on the last bus you set eyes on....

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

Surely there have been adverts for less than savoury movies and the like on the buses before.

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

Is it? I think there's a genuine case here. The fact that not many Atheists have objected to religious advertising, doesn't mean they have no beef with it. To discount any (potential) objections from Atheists as just being tit-for-tat is a little simplistic in my opinion. The question here is if the liberties that are granted to people of faith extend to those without faith (and those who reject it).

So, It would be interesting to see what would happen if a bus driver would decide to actually make a point of not wanting to drive a 'you are going to hell if you don't believe x, y, or z' bus.

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

To be fair I did say likely. If atheists did raise such objections the most important question needing to be answered is why bring it up now...and judging by the amount of cynicism displayed on CF and in just about any other section of society towards religion I'd reiterate it's likely to be just tit-for-tat.

In any case, I image the athiests made up the majority, and if they started saying they weren't going to drive buses with pro-God slogans how far would it go? The bus company would lose a sponsor, there wouldn't be anyone to drive the majority of the buses, the list goes on.

If there were any genuine objections from the atheists, after answering why their concerns were not addressed in the past, I'm sure common sense would be applied.

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

This is precisely why nobody, atheist or faithful should be able to dictate to the bus company what buses they are prepared to drive, if they feel that strongly, then leave this is a job not a demo.

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

He's not dictating! He's not refusing to do his job.

He has simply said he'd prefer not to drive one of the buses with that advert on - however if only those ones are available then he WILL drive one.

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

why is that different from me saying I don't want to work on mondays, but if no one else is about, then I suppose I'll do it.... must be nice being able to determine your own working Ts & Cs!!!

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

I really can't understand why you're not seeing how simple this is - he is saying he'd rather not drive a bus with that slogan on however if those are the only ones there then he'll do it.

Just like "I'd rather not have a desk by the door but if that's the only one available then ok no problem".

No-one is being inconvenienced, no-one is being put out.

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

as i understand it,if no one answers its faith ,if some one does its lunacy :D

unless your david icke then your just talking to yourself.

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

Perhaps some just keep it to themselves, as faith can be a very private thing. ;)

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

then if it's as simple as that, why is there all this fuss????

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

Because it causes controversy if they phrase it certain ways. Like that whole Birmingham council ban on atheists lie.

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

which is the point I made earlier...

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

Because it's yet another case of those nasty religious types getting their own way at the expense of "white, working class English" people.....

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

I have the desk by the door in my office, and, TBH, I'd rather not, but I just put up with it. Although in my case It's more because I supect that me moving my desk would actually inconveniance other people.


Anyhow, that's off topic..

Russ, would you feel the same way if the bus driver had (say) refused to drive a bus with a ladies underwear ad on it? Or an ad for Condoms?

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

You thought Christians were against ladies underwear?! That's a discussion in itself....

Anyway would I feel the same way? Yes I would. If someone finds one aspect of their work uncomfortablle for whatever reason and the employer is able to accommodate their wishes as is the case in this story then why not as long as its within reason?

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

Something has been niggling me about that.

It's the use of the word probably.It makes it seem as if they aren't sure themselves...;)

Why not just come flat out and say "There's no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life"?

Mind I suppose it does sound rather patronising.:scratch:

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

It's never bothered them before ;)

I think they use the word 'probably' to stay the right side of the advertising laws.

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

Why?After all if theists would say "There is a God,now relax and don't worry."
and I doubt if that's going to trip any advertising laws so saying the opposite can hardly have any repercussions either..and even with the word probably included some on the opposing side still wants to ban the adverts.:erm:

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

Richard Dawkins commented that if they were banned it would set a precedent and probably prevent pro god slogans too

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

It doesn't break the ASA code.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7842769.stm

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

I think most of us knew that would be the case.

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

I saw on of these vandalised on the tube this morning, they had scribbled out the bottom part and has also scribbled out probably no and replaced it with "probably is a". Don't ask me why they didn't use the existing probably....

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

Doesn't sound as if the perp was being guided by the hand of god then.;)

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2009/01/44.jpg

"YOU MISSED A BIT"

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

I think he would be more annoyed about scribbling out the Stop Worrying and Enjoy your life bit :D As if they are mutually exclusive

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

Well, whether you believe or not, you've got to admit that the addition of the word "probably" means that they can't be accused of lying whether God turns out to exist or not.

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

Not wishing to get too pedantic, they can't be 'lying' or even 'telling the truth' as they don't have absolute knowledge whether or not God is there. Obviously no-one knows for certain.

I don't think reporting the adverts gave the Christian view any extra credability though. Dawkins and co are allowed their view, which is what they gave.

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

Actually, I phrased it badly. What I meant to say is that the ad can neither be proved correct, nor incorrect as they don't specifically state that God does exist nor that He doesn't.

Also, as you say, both sides are entitled to their view.

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

Live and let live i can't imagine how petty and unoccupied you have to be to get worked up about this i really can't it's an advert thats all far more important things to go and get all hot under the collar about.

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

This is wonderful as it makes people think and praise God :angel:

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

Not necessarily.

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

OK Stuart, don't think of an elephant, don't think of an elephant, what are you thinking about :angel:

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

PRAISE THE ELEPHANT! :erm:

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

What, this one?

[img]Download Failed (1)[/img]

:D

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

The Lord works in mysterious ways, you can praise what you want batman but you cannot deny you have to think about God when you see those signs :angel:

Re: Atheist ads on London buses
 

I don't 'have to' do anything. But yes, it will make some people think about it, some may decide they like the prospect of there being a God, some may think it's liberating to think there is no God, some may question their belief that there is a God. To state that these ads will make people praise God seems rather wishful to me. It's a bit like saying a coke ad will increase sales of Pepsi ;)