Re: Disconnection for abuse
 

Forgive me for being pedantic, but don't you mean Jacqui Smith's bouncers?

Re: Disconnection for abuse
 

Fnarr, fnarr.....

Re: Disconnection for abuse
 

Indeed. If you are shouting abuse in a public place that is not the same issue.

I am not saying an email not addressed to or sent to a specific person is not capable of being seen as offensive. It just cant be deemed offensive under law jusut because it is capable of being seen as offensive.

The issue is whether it constitutes abuse of an individual or harrassment becasue these are the only real contractual issues at stake here and why the clauses exist in the first place which is to protect VM from being culpable as an ISP.

The fact it contains a swear work is substantially irrelevant because it is possible in law to abuse and harrass without using swear words.

It isnt suffiecient in law AFAIK for Virgin to simply invoke wide reaching terminology in their AUP or T&Cs which are unenforceable in law.

As mentioned before as an example - their T&Cs say they can terminate a customers account immediately for any reason. This is not lawful. In court this statement in the T&Cs would be disregarded.

Re: Disconnection for abuse
 

Virgin's AUP and T&C don't make any distinction between sending an e-mail to an indivdual or to a company. And that is exactly the reason why the AUP and T&Cs are there, as it is with any other ISP

Yes it is and the AUP states "9.2.8. harassment, whether through language, frequency or size of messages sent, is prohibited"

I don't see why it wouldn't be. As long as Virgin prove a breach occured, then they would be enforceable

Actually their T&Cs say they can terminate an account with 30 days notice normally and immediately if it breaks the AUP. You agree to this when you take their services. So I think as long as Virgin have given the notice required within their T&Cs/AUP, the courts could not do anything about it TBH

Re: Disconnection for abuse
 

Well the story has taken another turn becasue I got another letter from virgin today in response to my complaint to the ISPA.

This is the second letter i have from VM on this where the date on the letter and the postmark and day I received the letter are significantly different.

Essentially the letter i have is dated the same day I filed my compliant to the ISPA - Saturday 9th August. It is postamarked 11th August and I received it today.

It is from someone in their Wythenshaw office but the ydont include a job title tel number and their is no department.

Basically it just says I am in "clear breach of their Terms and Conditions - Section D in General and subsection 4 in particular. You were also in breach of our Acceptable Use Policy - Sections 2, 3 and 9 wit hparticular reference to 3.4"

I have writtne back (funnilty enough) and anyone who is vaguely interested can look up those clauses.

Substantially the yare simply citing their right to terminate if a breach occurs but not specifically detailing what has been breached. Notably Section 9 of the AUP deal wit hemail and this letter does detail a subsection or subsections of that email clause I have apparently breached - which you might reasonably expect them to do given this relates to an email.

Anyway I suspect this fella is going to the Small Claims court where i will be asking for someone that knows about the law to have a look at it and decide if it was lawful for VM to terminate my contract on the basis of this email, and whether or not they should have given me 30 days notice.

Re: Disconnection for abuse
 

VM make the rules up, you didn't follow them, wheres the problem?

as for the dates, the 9th is a saturday so maybe there was no post collection and it was sent on monday, which was the 11th so they are hardly significantly different. As for the delivery, I suppose it's up to VM to deliver letters is it?

Re: Disconnection for abuse
 

So it was produced on Saturday, posted/franked on the Monday, and Royal Mail delivered it on Wednesday - sounds fairly normal to me.

Or did you expect VM to hire a same day courier for it? ;)

Re: Disconnection for abuse
 

I would expect them to not have been able to complete an investigation from start to finish on a Saturday and write the letter.

I have another letter from them where a similar thing has happened.

Sending me postdated letters that they dont refer to in conversations i have with them after the letter is dated but before it is received.

I dont think I am being pedantic suggesting a complaint filed on a Saturday with the ispa and apparantly investigated and replied to the same day by VM and a different person and department to htose involved is a little circumspect.

The letter also disregards the ISPA process in so far as it says "the matter is now closed" and there is at least one more stage in the dispute resolution process before "deadlock" is declared and it goes further under the ISPA complaints procedure.

Re: Disconnection for abuse
 

So Thunderballs what do you expect from this forum and this thread?

It's not going to resolve your position and you've been enough of a warning to those who use emails to anonymously abuse others as to consequences.

What do you hope to achieve here?Get VM investigated/or to change their minds...well that's not going to work because you haven't convinced enough of the members that you have a case and we have no influence with the Ombudsman.

All that is happening is that you have bounced your ideas/feelings around the thread and everyone is just bouncing the same few ideas back at you.

So what DO you want?

Re: Disconnection for abuse
 

They dont make the rules up. The day we let companies make up the rules by which we are all governed will never come.

Can I suggest that some of your relatives gave their lives for the freedom we enjoy under the law of this great country of ours.

Re: Disconnection for abuse
 

Well misinterpreted - so my relatives died so you (or someone who used your connection) could send an email containing an obscenity, and also a voicemail?

Is it me, or are we over-reacting a mite?

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2008/08/57.jpg

Re: Disconnection for abuse
 

Steady on. The guy said vm make up the rules"

Yes your ancestors did die to ensure companies dont make up the rules.

The fact they dont make up the rules doesnt mean I am right.

---------- Post added at 16:12 ---------- Previous post was at 16:07 ----------

0.

Re: Disconnection for abuse
 

Point of order (and vastly off topic), but didn't our ancestors die because a) the members of the Empire got a bit bored of British rule and we didn't take the hint quickly enough, or b) because our government at the time really didn't think that anyone who annexed Poland was very friendly?

Re: Disconnection for abuse
 

I bet the guys on the Abuse Team are absolutely wetting themselves at this thread..

Re: Disconnection for abuse
 

and for providing you with the use of an internet connection they do make the rules, isps state (not just VM) that you are liable for the content/use of the connection, regardless if it is an unsecured wifi conection for example

other companies make the rules up for their customers aswell, that is something that will never change

as for the letter dates i think yes you are being pedantic, a letter done after 5pm on a saturday even if posted would not be collected til monday by the Royal Mail

Re: Disconnection for abuse
 

Someone appears to be lacking perspective here. You are acting as if Virgin are trying to annex the country. They are not. They have denied you service.

As for them denying you service, it's simple: You use their network, you agree to obey their rules. You disobey those rules, and Virgin can, if they so desire, refuse to provide service.

I am no expert, but I believe the law goes some way to protecting VMs right not to provide service to you. In fact, as far as I know, the ONLY telecoms company with a legal obligation to provide service is British Telecom, and even they are only obliged to provide a line to the house.

You claim they have had no time to investigate. What's to investigate? You swore in an email and, apparently, on a voicemail (which in itself is enough to get you refused service assuming you actually did it). They have the email, which was presumably forwarded to whoever did the investigation.

I have to admit, assuming this is your first time and that you didn't leave an offensive email, that I'd consider disconnection a little harsh. I personally think they should have written to you first and then disconnected if you continued.

Re: Disconnection for abuse
 

But they did? It appears, according to his original post, that it was only after he left an offensive voicemail message was suspension taken, and that refusal by the O/P to admit to abuse of the service led to the disconnection.

On all other points in your post which I didn't quote for the sake of brevity, I agree.

So, what has happened here? The poster has failed to solicit the sympathy he thinks he deserves from this community, and has sought to justify his arguments through accusations of corporate bullying and rule making. I don't see this thread of being any further benefit

Re: Disconnection for abuse
 

oh come on toto it gives us all a laugh thats a benefit in itself. :D

Re: Disconnection for abuse
 

Oh behave :)

Re: Disconnection for abuse
 

LOL.

I have a contract with Virgin - or did !

It is the Terms of that contract that are in dispute.

In a contract dispute it isnt sufficient in Law to point to a clause in a contract and say - "look the contract says this and they did that so we can do y"

The terms have to be lawful. They are not automatically lawful because both parties have agreed to them and they both have a piece of paper with each others signature on.

Because that is the case it is incorrect to say that Virgin make up the rules - they dont.

It is also becasue of that that I am going to claim that Virgin had no right "in law" to disconnect my services without giving me 30 days notice.

I am not disputing the email was sent via my internet connection.

I am not disputing some people might find it offensive.

I am disputing that it specifically breaches the Terms and Conditions of the contract and VM have yet to specifically detail to me how it breaches the Terms and Conditions and which clauses it breaches.

Re: Disconnection for abuse
 

Virgin as with most other service providers can decide if they want to provide you with service. They can cancel that service and therefore that contract if they wish.

Dunno why your LOL'ing not seen anyone that agrees with you yet and cnsidering the typical flow of this forum it unheard of, your arguments are just ramblings.

Get over it

Re: Disconnection for abuse
 

If you ask me there is an element of spying going on here. On phones it is called tapping... it's illegal to open other peoples postal mail (unless with consent), so what on earth is different with email.

I should be able to swear as much as I like in an email, after all it's private... they swear on Virgin broadcasted TV channels, which is for public viewing... so why don't they banned their own TV channels!! Power hungry corporations have a lot of nerve when they more than contradict their own ethics!! Really!!

And on another angle; who determines what a swear word is... a **** is a type of tobacco and could be perceived as a rude word... I am sure there are many cross lingual words that mean something quite legitimate in one language and a swear word in another language... so do I get banned for saying a word that may seem to be a swear word, but is infact not because of the context... and if they are looking at the context then they are spying!!

Freedom of speach does not exclude swear words!!

Our Freedom for life is being taken away by these people and anyone who does not see that is a complete fingerlinin singletinger.

Re: Disconnection for abuse
 

theLaw, trying reading the thread.

Someone complained about an email they had received from the OP's VM connection - no spying took place.

Actually, freedom of speech does exclude swear words - it is a disciplinary offence in most work places to use offensive language (in the first post, the OP stated the email contained ""F" word and donkeyhole (I paraphrase)") - obviously the recipient found that offensive, and that is all the context that is required (imho).

Re: Disconnection for abuse
 

Nonsense!

Trying swearing at a police officer, in private, and see where that gets you.

Re: Disconnection for abuse
 

Re: Disconnection for abuse
 

Did I miss something here, but how did the complainant poster, Thunderballs, get back on the net to do all this posting if his service has been disconnected for 2 weeks?

I admit it's very harsh to receive a warning letter based on one email, but the pieces don't all seem to fit into place to me.

Lets assume you didn't leave the voicemail, which in itself and in the absence of an apology I would deny you service...

Then I would speak to a solicitor about breach of contract and get them to press Virgin Media for compensation for the lost time and hassle of finding another service provider, based on the evidence of one email.

Why? Well on the basis of a single email it would be tough to prove it actually came from your connection. I could cut and paste an offensive email and modify the IP address to get someone I don't like into trouble with their ISP.

But...

You are where you are now, from what I can tell, because of a combination of factors. Can you prove you didn't leave the offensive voicemail?

So in this situation isn't it best just to cut your losses and move on? From what I understand you had a chance to apologise and chose not to, so find another ISP.

But, as I opened with, you have some form of handy connection as you've been posting regularly on here...

Re: Disconnection for abuse
 

Thank you for your reasoned response - see what I mean about it is about the recipient's context. They have swearing and sexually explicit content on TV, but not in church - it is all about context.

Have a nice day.;)

btw, bolding the letters to make a swear word is a trifle juvenile, dontcha think? :o:

Re: Disconnection for abuse
 

This swear word hasnt been used in the workplace.

Freedom of speech is nothing to do with the workplace.

In a workplace you are usually required by your contract of employment to adhere to certain behaviours . Tose beahviours neccessarily restrict your general right to freedom of speech if you want to keep your job.

VM T&Cs AUP do restrict freedom of speech but that does not mean that they are unlawful or lawful. I strongly suspect it is a mixture of both but more down to their choice of what restrictions they place on their customers use of their services and any obligations they have in supplying their services under other laws.

I do not dispute they believe their rights under the contract to terminate my services for whatever reason they choose (but I may if they are judged to be lawful in applying an immediate contract termination for the email content or this aledged Voicemail)

The thrust of my complaint at the moment is I beleive they have to give me 30 days notice under UK law because of the nature of this contract.

They haven't given me that and it has casued me loss.

The frredom of speech curtailments that VMs T&Cs and AUP place on all customers are another matter but they are similar to the Phorm and BPI issues in that VM are at liberty to withhold their service to customers that dont accept them. They may not be at liberty to apply these conditions retrospectively against existing contracts.

As a consumer you have the right to buy and use their services or not.

Re: Disconnection for abuse
 

oh dear forever... juvenile it is not... proving a point about what can get you banned for it is!!

Re: Disconnection for abuse
 

Is it me, or is this thread just turning into a

http://www.tinmantintoys.com/images/...rrygoround.jpg

---------- Post added at 20:41 ---------- Previous post was at 20:41 ----------

As I am sure you are about to find out.......;)

Re: Disconnection for abuse
 

Good post.

I am going to take them to court for precisely this if my complaint via ISPA isnt dealt wit hto my satisfaction.

I dont need to see a solicitor since it can be dealt with by the small claims court for very little outlay on my behalf.

I dont believe i will be required to prove i didnt leave an offensive voicemail - I think the onous will be on VM to prove that I did. Since I cant imagine they are going to fabricate one it isnt going to even come up in court.

If they did fabricate one, or someone else has left one using my phone etc, its relevance to the Contractual issues might come into play only insofar as VM using it to invoke their "right" to terminate immediately.

I would suspect they would try to invoke that right with regard to the original email unless there is no case to answer there because it is a non issue and has no legal bearing on my contractual status with them.

Ahh well.. time will tell.

Don't forget that have also made threats against me "If you then switch services to another provider and continue to abuse that service we will also arrange for those services to be suspended &/or disconnected"

I imagine i would raise this in court re the contractual issue but it might also be something I choose to take up in a separate action for harassment/tortuous interference.

In all of this i really get no sense that this has been looked at by anyone with a significant legal background and it is very hard to ascertain the levels of seniority you are dealing with since VM do not put job titles on their letters and their staff are reluctant/don't give them out.

On the one hand I find it hard to believe anyone of reasonable authority could have made the elementary error of sending me a letter in response to a formal complaint via the ISPA that a) doesn't appear to comply with the ISPA complaints procedure itself and b) on one level does not indicate a serious effort on VMs part to deal with my complaint since it is dated the same day I made the complaint on the ISPA website and that date is a Saturday.

The case if it gets to court may be interesting since VMs T&Cs prohibit using their services for anything that could be deemed "offensive" etc. I imagine they will have to defend these terms if the yare going to try and rely in them and that may not hold much sway with the judge in light of the range of potentially "offensive" material they broadcast into millions of homes.

Re: Disconnection for abuse
 

Please let us know the outcome.

Re: Disconnection for abuse
 

That's not quite correct. Nobody has the right to buy VM's services, it is offered under a term of contract, the initial principal being that they can afford to purchase the services, i.e. not a credit risk.

If they get past that little hurdle, then they have rights under the terms of the contract, which help them, and protect Virgin Media.

Re: Disconnection for abuse
 

I think you should submit a petition to http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/ regarding freedom laws. Also write to your MP and if you want a war, to the president of Iran. ;)

Re: Disconnection for abuse
 

Re: Disconnection for abuse
 

You forgot to read this first on that website.

The e-Petitions service will be closed to new submissions during the Prime Minster's time away from Number 10. It will remain open as normal for the searching and signing of petitions.
This temporary closure will allow the Digital Communications team to deal more effectively with the large number of submissions that have built up due to the huge popularity of the service.
The e-Petitions system will re-open to new submissions when the Prime Minister returns to Downing Street after his summer break around 1 September.

Re: Disconnection for abuse
 

you entered into a contract with VM, they set the terms of the contract, so yes they do make the rules. VM can terminate the contract should you break any of the conditions of the contract (that is how contracts work), if they make one of those to be you must send a photo of you upside down to them every thursday and you don't they can terminate the contract still.

Re: Disconnection for abuse
 

Don't be silly i can argue with anyone in email through fear of being banned!

Re: Disconnection for abuse
 

You really have been sipping at the overflowing jug of crazy juice, haven't you? ;)

I think this thread shows that you can't - or don't you let little things like facts get in the way of your tirades? :D

Re: Disconnection for abuse
 

whydoineedatech doh.. okay true but what other parlimentary online petitioning service is there... i think it is called wait until they get back from holiday.

Re: Disconnection for abuse
 

Is this thread going to feature in South Park as it is getting surreal:rofl::rofl::rofl:

---------- Post added at 20:53 ---------- Previous post was at 20:52 ----------

I know it was just in case anyone thought they could start one now;)

Re: Disconnection for abuse
 

Re: Disconnection for abuse
 

I dont think it will make south park.. that a cartoon series that has abusive content

---------- Post added at 19:56 ---------- Previous post was at 19:53 ----------

But I suppose it is okay to be abusive if it makes you money!

Re: Disconnection for abuse
 

They can terminate the contract indeed but they have to do so lawfully by giving the required amount of notice.

Thats my beef with them now not the reason for disconnection because they could and would deny me service in any case now unless someone senior took a view I had been wronged (which i seriously doubt would happen at this stage) or there is something in the ISPA code of conduct that would require them to do so IF the ISPA found in my favour.

Re: Disconnection for abuse
 

They have no need to give you any notice, read in the link below section D Using our services section 1 a to j, you have accepted this by signing your agreement.

http://allyours.virginmedia.com/html...ble/terms.html

Re: Disconnection for abuse
 

as whydoIneedatech says, its in the terms, they don't need notice:

afaik, the only legalities involved are those of contract law which tends to be whatever is in the contract goes

Re: Disconnection for abuse
 

As I have said before Contract law isnt as simple as here here are the Terms of the contract therefore they are lawful and we have a right to enforce them.

I cannot enter into a contract with someone who is termanally ill to help them die because it is unlawful.

IF this clause in the contract with VM was deemed unlawful/unfair etc VM could not rely on it in court.

I do not believe they can rely on it in court.

It is a sad state of affairs when people think companies make the laws in our country and that what is written in commercial contracts/EULAS/AUPs etc is the law.

---------- Post added at 21:41 ---------- Previous post was at 21:35 ----------


Absolute rubbish.

Contract Law specialists are not rubber stampers who got exceptional marks for English comprehension at school.

I do conceed that generally contracts are written by lawyers and so generally they contain terms that are lawful which might give rise to your your belief that whatever is in the contract goes.

Re: Disconnection for abuse
 

VM don't make the laws, they make the terms of a contract which can be enforcable by existing laws. I find it wosre that someone would compare a contract for TV/BB to one involving life/death.

For a part of a contract to be non-enforceable, there has to be an element of illegality in it. For example, a contract to kill someone as they can't kill themselves is illegal as it's still defined as murder so the contract can't be legal. Similarly, the Apple EULA forcing people to use OS X on Apple hardware only isn't enforced as it breaks competition laws.

What law are you suggesting VM's terms breaks to make it non-enforceable?

Re: Disconnection for abuse
 

I think you would find that Virgin have a very strong defense in your signature being on their documents accepting their terms and conditions, and their legal team would take apart any argument you tried to use saying otherwise.

Do you really think any large company would leave themselves open by not adhering to the laws of the land, because if they did they would fail very quickly.

Re: Disconnection for abuse
 

This does raise another interesting point .

I didnt write the email, it isnt addressed to me yet I have been sent it by VM.

Does the fact the sender used my and ofc Virgin and whoever elses systems/infrasturcure to get to the recipient email address mean that it can be read/used by all those organisations whose infrastructure it used to reach its destination ?

Does the sender therefore loose any rights to prvacy they might have bny sending it via email or are there laws governing how those organisations proviing infrastructure use this senders email ?

Re: Disconnection for abuse
 

Straws, grasping, at - please re-arrange..........

Re: Disconnection for abuse
 

<edit Rob: deleted>

Thousands of big name corporates are taken to court every year and loose or settle out of court.

I am not saying I have a rock solid case but i do think that a ISP should not be able to effectively disconnect your services for any reason they wish without recourse to the 30 day rule - which is effectively what their T&Cs and AUPs seem to allow.

I know if this were to get any where near court I wouldnt necessarily have a straight forward case and the less straightforward it is the more it is going to cost VM to defend which is fine by me.

The thing that has cheesed me off the most in this issue is that VM have designed their customer facing organisations in a such a way that as a customer with a gripe they do not have any satisfactory way of escalating an issue.

If you have a complaint you'll simply be asked to write a letter or fill out a web form and it seems the Internet Security team can pretty much do what they like and then hide behind the wide ranging T&Cs, AUP.

I lodged my complaint about receiving the letter in the first place with Customer Services and I think I am justified in objecting to being sent a standard letter which if i were to simply ignore to keep the peace effectively accepts I have been in breach of the contract.

I may be in the minority on this forum to hold the view that i think it is well beyond VMs legal obligation to respond to an abuse report for an email such as the one in question here and they are acting unfairly.

I am sure the Internet Security team send out a lot of these letters and probably without much thought or investigation simply becasue someone has filed an abuse report but that doesnt excuse a lack of rigour.

If in my case this isnt so and their investigation was rigorous they have done an extremely poor job of communicating that to me and postively evaded specifics.

Re: Disconnection for abuse
 

I found this post, and it's 11 pages of replies so hillarious that I had to sign up.

First off. Laws are in place to ensure that people don't read your e-mail, but let's face it it can and does happen. Bored system admins working on a mail que delay could easily click your message whilst it's in holding on any number of servers. I'm not saying it will happen but don't be naieve and think that it can't!
The smaller the organisation the more likely this is to happen, and with all these 14 year old webhosts on the go I find it highly likely.

Secondly, I have probably sent 2,000+ e-mails containing swears over my Virgin Media connection in the last 10 years. Have I ever received an e-mail, letter or phone call regarding 'abusive conduct'? No. Never.
Of course, I know only to use such language with friends who 'appreciate' it. As for an e-mail sent to a company, if that e-mail had come to my company you can bet I would have traced the IP and complained to virgin.
You know, you can be prosecuted for telling a bus driver to !@#{ off, why do you think the same doesn't apply to e-mails?

Swearing = abusive conduct, especially calling someone an effing a-hole. Sorry but I have no respect for this.
If anyone holding an account with my company swore down my voicemail line after having broken the terms of service, I would cut them off that very second with no refunds and no chance of appeal.

You (or a friend) abuse Virgin staff, you loose your connection.

Thirdly, virgin media must log your voicemail, or they cannot use this against you in a court of law (or any legal proceedings). If you really care, and think you are inocent enough, go to the police and ask them to confirm to Virgin that's not your voice.

And lastly, do you really think you would come close to beating Virgins 20+ lawyers? Really, you're dealing with Richard Effing Branson! The man is one of the richest men in the world, do you think you can beat him?

If you do then good luck, would love to hear the outcome!

Re: Disconnection for abuse
 

Boy this is better than watching Virgin 1! ;)
Can't wait for the next instalment, like many I’m now hooked, as such this is my first post.

I do think there is a bit of the big brother going on here and it’s been dealt with a bit heavy handed ……if it’s all about a single e-mail.

I'd love to know what made the poster so angry that he was silly enough to go and swear at a business / corporation and leave an abusive voicemail.
If your innocent and they still refuse to let you hear the voicemail as previous poster said, go to the police and if you are innocent good luck.

If the reason for posting was to gauge peoples level of sympathy for your plight and whether or not they believe you then my answer is…. Yes I feel sorry for you, but no I don’t believe it wasn’t you writing the mail or leaving the voice message.
All the best.

---------- Post added at 11:27 ---------- Previous post was at 11:07 ----------

I don't think you have any case to bring at all, you think that a ISP should not be able to effectively disconnect your services for any reason they wish without recourse to the 30 day rule. Their justification is your actions, surely you can see that, it's not just for any old reason they wish. If you do something wrong you don't follow it up by doing more wrong and then wonder why you get your knuckles wrapped.
No one is blind here :dozey:

Re: Disconnection for abuse
 

Absolutely, it happens all the time.

Yeah.. right.

And now back to reality.......

Re: Disconnection for abuse
 

I suspect most ISPs hace clauses that enable them to instantly disconnect someone that breaks the rules. The reason being that if someone is harrassing someone else (and swearing/abusive emails can be considered harrassment), then if that person is given a polite warning to stop, they may actually start threatening (I have actually seen this happen to a student). Where I work (although this isn't an ISP, but I do do support) we can,if we feel a user is abusive, disable their account without warning. If we do that, they have to go to our line manager or head of school to explain why they felt the need to do this.

Re: Disconnection for abuse
 

I have only just come across this thread and all i can say is "Oh dear." :(

Re: Disconnection for abuse
 

Same here

Now have a lazy boy chair pulled up to the monitor and some cold ones ready for the next installment of the twilight zone :)

Re: Disconnection for abuse
 

OK lets get back to reality.

Virgin have a very well paid legal team that will blow the likes of this out of the water.

Do you really think against a proffesional legal team this could be won.

Reality Check Over.

Re: Disconnection for abuse
 

Legal teams make no difference. Well they do but it's how strong the case is whether they win or not. The case however stands no chance i would really like to see this go to court and see how far it gets.

Re: Disconnection for abuse
 

I'd rather see court time being restricted to legitimate cases that actually have some merit. There is absolutely no purpose in time wasting that means only the lawyers get rich.

Re: Disconnection for abuse
 

Well said :tu:

Re: Disconnection for abuse
 

Re: Disconnection for abuse
 

Re: Disconnection for abuse
 

Re: Disconnection for abuse
 

Tbh Thunderballs I'd just let it go, it isn't worth the increase in your blood pressure. I'd also apologise; not because there is a demand but because it just isn't nice to be confronted with expletives when you're just doing your job.

Swallow your pride, say sorry and move on. Anything else is just wasting your time. Besides, you have shown your capability here; you don't need foul language to make a point.

Re: Disconnection for abuse
 

Yeah i agree but sometimes it's just fun to watch:D

---------- Post added at 18:35 ---------- Previous post was at 18:33 ----------

No point in apologising really now they have moved to another ISP. It would just make VM look big. I think Thunder should just forget about it swallow their pride and move on that way they will keep their dignity in tact.:)

Re: Disconnection for abuse
 

I just love the way this thread just keeps on rolling days after the original OP has left the room. :)

Re: Disconnection for abuse
 

Some people just don't know when to leave well enough alone do they? :D

Re: Disconnection for abuse
 

http://www.geocities.com/o2thx/gladi...diator119a.jpg
At my signal - unleash hell.......