Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

Well, if they get silly about it I'll just get retentions to knock another few quid off to cover an Relakks account.

Honestly, haven't they ever heard of King Canute?

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

I don't think anyone on here even thinks that the letters will stop anything (apart from the oik on his parents internet connection), but if there's no reaction to the letters then surely the BPI will look at other tougher methods.... :(

It's like the speed limit on motorways, early on there wasn't one but because some idiots were doing rediculous speeds compared with the flow of traffic we all have to now plod along at 70...

I'd personally be happy if VM blocked the P2P ports, but that would push everyone into other methods...

Worrying thing is where does all this end as to make the BPI happy internet access in the UK would have drastic changes :(

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

Blocking ports which plenty of legal services use would not go down well...

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

I didn't say everyone would be happy ;)

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

[QUOTE=Kymmy;34608381It's like the speed limit on motorways, early on there wasn't one but because some idiots were doing rediculous speeds compared with the flow of traffic we all have to now plod along at 70...[/QUOTE]

At the risk of extending an analogy too far...

When motorways first appeared, the average family car had a top speed of 50mph and certainly could not sustain that for long. Later faster cars came along and average speeds rose a lot. The roads could not cope with people doing those speeds for a variety of reasons (unlike the German autobhans which were designed for it) so speed limits were introduced.

Similarly, the internet started out with dial-up and because it was 1p/min or more you kept your usage down. Later unlimited dial-up came along and a lot of ISPs were stuffed because they hadn't built their infrastructure to support it. In came the automatic disconnects and 2 hour limits etc. Then came broadband, again slow at first but eventually ramping up a bit. Once more the infrastructure creeks and the limits come in again.

Another interesting parallel is that something which was effectively legal is now attempting to be made a civil offence. Where once private copying was tolerated, now the BPI wants to threaten you for doing it, if not actually wanting to sue you.

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

That's because previously (imho) private copying was perhaps one or two copies - now it can be hundreds, if not thousands - so the scale of "private copying" has changed (again, imho).

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

private copying was never legal, they just didn't bother with it

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

Loved this phrase from the article

"It would have involved the creation of a "National Freetards Register"."

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

ok this might be a numpty way of looking at things. Say i make quite a few say a few gigs of dummy files, some look like a full cd and lots of single dummy files all names different but have song artists names and do not download anything say from limewire. I then allow people to upload from me. Then a few more do it and a few more would that be wrong ? and could i get a letter ? if so what for? and somewhere along the line i am sure it would fill thier inbox up with spam...

And doesn't channel 4 use p2p for it tv ? would you get a letter for that ?

Who knows i don't use p2p but its the start and in a few years time we could all be under the ISP's boot.

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

Hi, I run a small label and am a member of the BPI.
I have to say I don't agree with this move. Over the years labels have been very successful at persuading the public to buy all types of music. Unfortunately, the rules have changed. They failed to take note of the changes that were happening and found out that their business models no longer worked. They just wouldn't listen.
Either give it away or let advertising on the tracks pay for it!

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

I suspect the following will happen which should help clear things up for you.

The BPI's investigators log onto Limewire for example. They download the latest album by Coldplay, they check it's legit and log the IP's of everyone else who's uploading the same file. Files on P2P use a hash to ensure you're participating in sharing the same file. Filenames are fairly irrelevant and if you used Emule you'd see the same file with multiple different names. It's the hash which is composed from the file's binary code that's important and no two files can have the same hash unless they're identical.

They then take all the IP's coming from Virgin's IP ranges and send them to Virgin, Virgin then match up the IP to the customer who had that IP at the time the upload was made.
Assuming Virgin do log which IP's are tied to which customers (I'm pretty sure they have to for legal reasons) then the whole thing is water-tight.

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

thanks bud it cleared it up for me smiles

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

Water tight as far as finding out the name and address of the account holder, but not the person sharing files. If you have 4 students sharing a flat, and an internet connection, and only one is file sharing, how can you tell which one is file sharing? It may even be the landlord who is the account holder, and he has nothing to do with what his tenants do online. Unless (and iam not sure about the legalities), the account holder is responsible for what passes though his networks. But, if the acount holders were responsible, that would open up a whole new can of worms, with regards to privacy, and/or one person being sued for the crimes of another.

---------- Post added at 22:36 ---------- Previous post was at 22:33 ----------


How does your company make its money? Are you exploring other ways to make music pay?

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

My daughter has VM in Leicester, and it is usually one of the tenants whose name is on the contract, rather than the landlord.

And on this VM T&C page (re your comment about the other "sharers" in the flat/house

"You are responsible for the way the services are used. You must not use the services to do any of the following acts or allow anyone else to use the services to do such acts:

1. Send a message or communication that is offensive, abusive, defamatory (damages someone's reputation), obscene, menacing or illegal;
2. Cause annoyance, nuisance, inconvenience or needless worry to, or break the rights of, any other person;
3. Perform any illegal activity;
4. Break, or try to break, the security of anyone else's equipment, hardware or software;
5. Deliberately receive, use, own, post, transmit or publish obscene material (including, but not limited to, child pornography);
6. Upload, post, publish or transmit any information or software that is protected by copyright or other ownership rights without the permission of its owner;
7. Copy or distribute any software or services we provide (but you may make a backup copy of the software we provide for your personal use); "

and

"You agree to take responsibility for all liabilities, claims and losses which are in any way connected with misusing the services supplied to you under this agreement"

Also, in VM's AUP (section 3)
3.2. You must not use the Services in any way that is unlawful or illegal or in any way to the detriment of other Internet users. You also must not allow anybody using your connection to use the Services in any way that is unlawful or illegal or in any way to the detriment of other Internet users.
3.3. During an investigation, if we believe that a violation of this AUP or our Terms and Conditions has occurred, we may take immediate remedial action. Such action may include temporary or permanent removal of material from our servers, the cancellation of newsgroup postings, warnings to the User responsible, and the suspension, restriction or termination of the User's account. We will determine what action will be taken on a case-by-case basis. Please note that we have a policy of open co-operation with all relevant authorities and regulators.
3.4. In addition to and without prejudice to your obligations pursuant to our Terms and Conditions, you agree to comply with (and ensure that others using the Services comply with) all applicable laws, statutes and regulations in connection with the Services. As the User of record, you are responsible for all use of your account, irrespective of use without your knowledge and/or consent.

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

Well, that's not totally correct. The government have put significant pressure on ISP's to work with the BPI and other rights holders representatives, otherwise they have said that they will force legislation.

This latest deal, was brokered by BERR.

Here.

I have, in that OTHER thread offered my views on the subject, both as an Internet user and an interested party. In my opinion what this represents in this first stage is basically a carpet bombing exercise without any collateral damage. If that doesn't significantly "educate" Internet users in the UK, and I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't, the next stage will likely see the worst offenders in each of the big six getting court orders dropping through the door.

---------- Post added at 01:33 ---------- Previous post was at 01:17 ----------

Would it be wrong? Probably not, but extremely annoying for other sharers :)

Could you get a letter? Very unlikely. Part of the evidence gathering actually requires the files to be examined for content, in other words if the file says it is a work by an artist then that has to be confirmed by listening to it, you can't rights protect a song title.

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

Well things haven't gone far enough for that example to be meaningful but I guess the landlord would cut the connection completely if he was smart and tell the tenants to find their own alternative.

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

I fully admit my whole music collection has been downloaded illegally, being from the slightly older generation I started my collection by buying records (a rather large collection)

They then had this great new invention called the walkman. I saved my money and replaced all my records with tapes.

Then to my surprise an even better way to listen to music came out called the CD. Again I had to pay for exactly the same music which I had already paid for on Record and Tape so I could upgrade to CD.

Now they have this even better way to listen to music called MP3. Basically the buck stops here. I’ve paid for the same music three times. Why should I have to pay for the same music again? Yes I could convert the CDs to MP3 or record the Records to tape but at the end of the day for me it’s the same thing making a copy of music I already have.

I’m just waiting for that letter to tell me that I’ve been illegally downloading and I will be happy to take my large collection of LPs Tapes and cds to prove that I have actually more than paid my dues to the artists.

Rant over.

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

As far as i go, if i am denied my downloads and stuff then VM can ram there 20MB.
Everyone likes the down and up speed we are getting.. More would be cool>>>> LOL...
Jings these isp's must know what they are gonna loose.
If we all canny download and do what we like, then who is going to meet the demand for the broadband?
Am sure isp's have the right and are bound by the data protection act to say screw you.


Us are creating the demand for broadband technology these days. if they want to keep it that way then they will protect us. This aint America.

I talk for millions here i think, cap me, reduce, send me letters whatever then stick it up yer ********SSS.

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

For me the quote of the year in all this can be read in an article by Andy Burnham, although slightly more focused on the other hot topic on the net 'child saftey' he does include this corker:


http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion...le-876679.html

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

And go where?

BT?
Sky?
Tiscali...?

The big six are doing this, to prevent the possibility of government intervention or possibly an expensive court case. They are not trying to prevent you from D/Uloading, re-read the title of this thread. :)

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

Read the p2p report, it's not just about sending warning letters out, those 6 isps are having meetings on how to stop downloaders completely (through application throttling, speed throttling or just a total download cap)

So yes, they are :p:

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

lol, ok ;)

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

Then people will realise why the hell cant i access stuff to download or why can i not use my 100mb connection to the full when im capped to 10k i feel ripped off, then all the isp's loose customers in droves as will be the case in a couple of months ;).

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

Albeit that may have been a tounge-in-cheek comment, but its a wildly speculative. :rolleyes:

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

Yeah, but that is only VM's terms and conditions, not the law of the land. As the BPI can only provide the IP address to the ISP's, which can only lead to the ISP's finding the name and addess of the account holder, the question remains, is an account holder responsible for what passes through his or her network, or is the account holder, like the ISP's and the Post Office, just a conduit through which the information passes? In other words, is an IP address sufficiant enough evidence to secure a proescution against an individual? If it is, and the BPI are going to use IP addresses as evidence to sue people, then i would argue that the BPI arent interested in suing file sharers, but that they are more interested in the publicity which surrounds suing someone for file sharing, whether that person was actually the person file sharing or not.

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

I was only referring you to VMs T&C - how you wish to interpret them is entirely up to you.

Although VM (and all other ISPs, who seem to have fairly similar T&Cs) may have taken some legal advice, don't you think? ;) (and this Policy Proposal has been raised by HM Government)

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

Barton71 though does have a point...

According to VM's T&Cs the account holder is responsible for what goes through the modem, but if the action brought by the BPI is a legal action then does VM's T&Cs matter as then it'll be upto different rules and nothing to do with VM...

In simpler terms you can use the "it was someone else on my connection" excuse with VM but you probably could in a legal case...

Kymmy

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

The IP address would have appeared to be sufficient in previous cases where the BPI have taken civil action, what I can't seem to find is a recorded civil case where the defendant has argued that whilst they are the account holder, they are not responsible for every piece of traffic through their network, and won. Anyone know of any?

Currently ISP's can claim "mere conduit" under EU law, but as far as I can tell, not the end user.

It's an interesting point though, and one that could have serious implications, and probably why there has never been any criminal action to date due to the burden of prove.

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

We should remember that the ISPs (not just VM) are requesting that account holders stick to the T&Cs and AUP, and will then throttle/disconnect if these T&Cs are not adhered to (which include managing what happens at your end of the IntraWeeb pipe) - it will only become a legal issue if an account holder fights against being throttled/disconnected, and then wouldn't the account holder have to prove that the ISP was in the wrong in a civil case?

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

what a comment so true......I have loads of LP's and tapes

and sorry to go of topic.

these days on this forum the slightest so called duplication or just a bit of topic gets crushed. i hardly feel the rigth to post anymore. It must be the "VirGrim" virus:)

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

Channel 4 does. As does Sky and the BBC's iPlayer download service (the web streaming service doesn't). They use a P2P system licenced from a company called kontiki, who specialise in P2P services for commercial distribution. It is unlikely the BPI are montoring this network, as the users cannot use it to download stuff not from these companies

Also, the files are protected by DRM, so even if you did manage to download something, you would still require a licence from the relevant broadcaster to play it.

Finally, it's worth noting that P2P itself is legal. As long as you only use it to download stuff that is not copyrighted.

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

If you're downloading those MP3's from P2P sites then you're also sharing the same MP3's with the world and his wife. You'd be better off ripping to a lossless format such as FLAC from your own CD's anyway if you care about quality, quality of MP3's on most P2P systems is dire to say the least.

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

i expect the ISPs can get away with it because of the number of people involved, they themselves don't use the connections and they have a database of what connection belongs to who. now if you're a landlord and provide your tennants with a connection from VM (and so landlord is account holder) it would be up to them to show who was the culprit, and i would expect them to be let off

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

it's a very responsible motive, and I applaud those ISP's in question.

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

do you think the isps want to do this?

for the average user what is the point of fast bb if you dont download, the new generation of users have never bought vinyl/tape/cd they see the latest mp3/film as throwaway the rules have changed thats why im a big believer in paying a copyright tax (say £30 a year) then also charge for the quantity downloaded this will keep the isps happy then let everybody get on with it and share what they want.

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

Whats the point of (soon to be) 100Mbps just for browsing and checking email.
What are you supposed to download when you can't download much anymore.

I'm new to the forum btw :)

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

There's lots of legitimate reasons to use high speeds, even P2P reasons..

I think that most people are tarring P2P here with the "It must be illegal" brush, where as it's already been pointed out that P2P apps such as iPlayer which will not be on the BPI's or the goverments targets

So please stop this "we won't be able to download anything scaremongering" as it's only the illegal downloaders that should be effected (hopefully :( )

Kymmy

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

er, they do :)

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

if that happens, you can pay my copyright tax then

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

The way this will be enforced will be exactly the same as it is now. the high profile artists will be the target of this. They will be monitoring the trackers like they do already. You will be much more likely to be done for downloading an amy winehouse or arctic monkeys album than some obscure artist. Technology is always going to outsmart any restrictions they try to impose. The only way they could practically control this would be with DPI but that is a long way from being approved as a standard thing without the users consent.

Impz

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

what is file sharing? is it sharing illegal files with others? and does this include downloading illegal content yourself?

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

File sharing is commonly called P2P (based on the mothod it uses) and it's basically using P2P software to give others access to your files (they might be illegal or they might not be)

Some people will scream and shout that they just use P2P to download, but the nature of MOST P2P software means that anything you are downling is also shared to give more instances for others to download. So if you download a copyrighted MP3 lets say on Emule as you're downloading each completed section becomes available for others to download, hence you end up file sharing a copyrighted file as well as downloading.

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

right i understand now this is the same with torrents aswel isnt it, but what about usenet isnt that something totally different?

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

Usenet is based on propogation. A person uploads a file to a news-server, this file then gets propogated to all news-servers connected to that one news server and so on. A new client (program on a downloaders PC) gets a list of all the files available on a news group and then selects the files to download, so in essence only the original uploader is the file sharer and the news server hosts for some reason aren't held accountable ;)

So for P2P anyone downloading a file is then file sharing that file along with the original sharer, where in usenet only the original uploader is counted as the file sharer. Also as P2P you make a direct connection to the sharer thier IP is visible where in usenet the originators IP is only known by thier usenet provider...Hence the BPI are targetting PSP filesharers as it's simple to get thier IP

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

got it now thanks for ya help:D

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

the usenet server owners will use the same excuse as ISPs / YouTube etc do, there is simply too much data to check and it's not their job to censor the net

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

But it wasn't that long ago NTL blocked access to the main binary groups which had the most commonly wanted illegal material yet when there is a clampdown they open the access again. To me that doesn't make much sense.

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

true but aren't these new newsgroups ran by different people? it could have been simply overlooked and if anyone complains or whatever the access will be removed again

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

That would make sense, but overlooked by a company like VM etc, when someone like myself (and everyone else) can see it would then make those in charge look a bit thick by any standards. But then again we are talking about VM here so I'll take that back. :D

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

i doubt VM are in total charge of the servers

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

It's now moving on to game filesharing.

Link

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

What an absolutely pathetic and rubbish game to get done for...:rolleyes:

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

A "interesting" quote from the law firm involved, on it's website
DavenportLyons
"Davenport Lyons has recently been asked by media rights owners to obtain further disclosure orders against Internet service providers. These claims mostly relate to computer games, but films, software and music will also be involved.

Several thousand names and addresses have already been ordered by the High Court of London to be released by the ISPs concerned. Another application is set to be issued at court in relation to a further 7,000 IP addresses.

The evidence supporting the disclosure applications and subsequent proceedings is obtained by forensic computer experts Logistep AG, based in Switzerland, who have developed software programs to search for and accurately identify the IP addresses used to upload the copyright owners’ work.

All UK claims brought are civil actions under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988. There have been similar actions in other jurisdictions throughout Europe (although different procedures are often used)."

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

That sounds like the result from the http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/25...ort-lyons.html thread.

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

I've said it before, but its worth saying again.

We have been warned! This action is the result of somebody thinking it could not happen to them, even after the summons have dropped through the door. What was likely a request for a few hundred pounds is now the value of a 10% deposit on a modest size home.

When are people going to sit up and learn?

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

You say that, but… honestly, what would you do if one of the next seven thousand letters from Davenport Lyons arrived on your doormat, accusing you of having distributed Dream Pinball 3D? It might be a mistake on the part of one or more of Logistep, Topware Interactive, Davenport Lyons and Virgin Media. It might be a security breach of your computer or home network. But, how would you proceed, especially with so many parties involved? Would you pay the initial amount demanded by Davenport Lyons? Or, would you spend many months and many thousands of pounds defending yourself in court, with no guarantee of winning and with the very real prospect of having to submit all your computing and data storage equipment for months of forensic examination?

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

Simple! I don't file share and the police are perfectly free to look at my PC and all my records...And then I'll get my brother-in-law who is a solicitor onto their case...

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

**** Vm and all these all ******s. I will continue to use newsgroups.

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

Not exactly VM's fault, they were ordered by the courts to supply customer data, although we don't know if that woman who was fined was with VM.

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

It wouldn’t be the police, but a private firm that Davenport Lyons choose and you don’t object to, presumably Logistep AG. Unlike yourself, I doubt that Isabella Barwinska has a brother-in-law expert in English copyright law. Similarly, I have no relatives suitably qualified. And, I do object to having to give up all electronic privacy for something so relatively unimportant. This is not a criminal matter.

If it were to follow the American model, you’d also have to give a list of all your friends and family who could possibly have accessed your computer or network connection, so they can all be vigorously pursued. I don’t know if an English court would allow that or not. It’s also not clear whether you’d be liable in a case where your security had been compromised. Davenport Lyons’ position has been that you are.

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

So what's your beef with me?Just what is it you are taking issue with?

A throwaway remark about a game that no one in their right mind would want to play so desperately that they would file share it?

I've no objection to you keeping your privacy.However I do contend that the originator of software,artwork and music does have some right to be PAID for that which they produce.

Not anything posted in a forum though...that's taking the micky to think you have an intellectual right to that which you post in a forum...;)

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

Sorry. I don’t have a beef with you. I apologise for quoting you. I could have made my post without referring back to yours.

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal file sharing
 

Safest option. They would have to raid the Newsgroup servers to be able to catch you.

Newsgroups are far more secure than the likes of Limewire and Bittorrent.

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

How would you stand if you hadnt seeded 100% of the file you were accused of sharing? As anybody knows who has used p2p software if you've got 99% of something then it wont work, so if you've only shared an incomplete file then you've given somebody a lot of data that in effect is useless.

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

seeding just a block is still breach and distribution which is the main offence

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

I thought that the downloader (the recipient) received the file from a number of uploaders (seeders), so you wouldn't be uploading the whole of the file, only part of it; so, in answer to your question, "you're nicked, chummy".

btw, it just escalated.
TimesOnline
"Five of the world’s top games developers will serve notice on 25,000 people across the UK, requiring each one to pay £300 immediately to settle out of court. Those who refuse risk being taken to court. The companies will target their initial legal actions on 500 people who ignore the letters."

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/08...t_lyons_25000/

But not Virgin ;)

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

Yet!

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

Sure Sure. Bring it on. If we cannot download then the broadband industry will go down the drain. Not sure our ISP's want that. LOL. We are meeting the current demands for faster broadband. And we want it for downloading. Deep down i think ISP's know that and therefor should protect us. If they don't then it's there loss.

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

Downloading isn't the issue here, its the uploaders they are chasing, still your point is well made. :)

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

But I thought everybody just downloaded Linux distros? ;)

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

Interesting article:

http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirate-b...-peers-081020/

So now TPB are framing random IP addresses. Expect a flood of bogus claims any time soon.

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

Yes. The day they stop people from downloading illegal films/games/music, is the day probably 98% of their customers leave.

Even sending letters is likely to cause a shift.

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

No, remember that part of the evidence gathering process is to take some or all of the file from an IP address. Flooding a torrent request with fake IP's doesn't work because you wouldn't be able to get evidence from it.

The methods used by the BPI mean that they can produce file evidence because they have collected it, which means they have connected to the peer.

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

"The methods used by the BPI mean that they can produce file evidence because they have collected it, which means they have connected to the peer."

this has not been tested in a court of law yet, or has it?

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

Be careful what you wish for..... ;)

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

Absolutely - have you still got that 12-inch pianist?

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

Yes, they have, you'll need to scan "The Register" for some articles, but I'm not sure if the validity of the evidence has ever been tested. However, in the context of this discussion no they haven't produced files in court, simply because they don't need to as this is a voluntary agreement with the ISP's.

I found this article quickly, there may be more.

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

Depends, Media Defender and others were just using IP addresses. AFAIK no further evidence has ever been produced in a UK court.

How do they prove it was you though, and not someone else in the family or someone using your wifi connection? I work in a computer shop and we get people coming in all the time saying that they use someone else's wifi.

Keep in mind that even if it's someone you allowed to use your connection, you are still not guilty. It's like if someone borrows your car and gets snapped by a speed camera - they get the points, not you.

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

No - but I wasn't happy when I went down that slide and shouted "Weeeeeeeee!".

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

This subject matter has been discussed to death. I think its a given that until a court case happens we may never know how good an unsecured Wifi defence is,or whether the account holder and not the user is responsible..

We've provided you with some very sound advice, don't ignore the letter, get legal help or lick your wounds and pay up, its your choice.

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

i expect the unsecured defence won't work at all, unless you can point the finger elsewhere. Saying someone else did it is just as bad as saying 'i didnt do it'. It's the reasons why ISPs aren't sued, they can point out who actually did it, or, who is responsible for the offending IP.

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

O rly? lets drag up the old cloned modem adage up again heres a quote taken from one of the most popular cloner sites.

"newmalden mac swap
Postby alebastra on Sun Oct 19, 2008 8:47 pm
ubr15, new malden, nmal.ubr15, blueyonder. anyone?"

Loads more quotes like that if anyone wants more.
Now with any of this evidence produced can vm state 100% that someone else cannot be stealth using someone elses connection?.
Then you have people with unblocked wif-fi even wi-fi hackers where does it all lead to.

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

good advice

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

Does anyone want to prove this with me? Set up a case demanding £1 for infringement of copyright, argue the wifi defence and see what happens?

Seriously, I'm up for it. I'll even be the accused. Make a test case to force the issue. It seems like the only way we will ever put a stop to this.

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

I actually know someone who received one of these BPI letters last week.

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

i thought you were the accused :erm:

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/12...l#post34658625

is it me??

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

I have been accused in the past, but they always drop the claims when I write back to them.

What I mean is, I'd like it to actually go to court so a president can be set.

Is there some way I can get an injunction against Davenport Lyons to stop them harassing me?

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

Do you want to be President or do you want to set a Precedent.;)

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

:LOL:

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

I'm not a lawyer, but wouldn't Citizens Advice Bureau know more? My first inkling would be a civil claims court.

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

Citizens Advice Bureau are just unpaid volunteers i have been to them in the past about stuff and they aint got a clue.

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

In that case, cook1984 should speak to his solicitor, as they'll know what to do. :)

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

The first line people you see at citizens advice take your details and then you see someone with experience in your problem, I've found them invaluable in the past and they do have some very skilled people in there, whether this would be too different to what they normally deal with and therefore unable to help you with I couldnt comment on.

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

I asked Citizens Advice, apparently anyone can just randomly sue anyone else for anything they like at any time and the other person has to defend themselves or loose by default.

Sounds like a brilliant money making scam. Say you claim £500 from each person, and each letter costs 50p to print, put in an envelope and post, you only need more than 1 in 1000 to pay up and you are making money.

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

I hope the Nigerians are not reading this:D

On a serious note that shows how important it is that you refute any claims made against you and never to ignore any such claim as the Civil Court Judge will find in favour of the plaintiff every time if you bury your head in the sand.

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

I would be tempted to ignore it until they actually take me to court, just so I can argue it and win.

Re: Britain's six largest ISPs and BPI join forces to attack illegal filesharing
 

Good luck - please let us know the outcome.