Re: still racist
 

good grief! A sensible,adult conversation about racism...Where am I?Is this CF?

Well done and I've ENJOYED reading this thread because I've been given some interesting ideas and thoughts about an issue we so seldom manage to discuss without bickering on CF.:tu:

Well until I pointed it out of course...having seen the last posting before mine...I must learn to keep my big mouth shut...:rolleyes:

Re: still racist
 

In that case I apologise however in future you might want to clarify such things as "Well, erm, yes, if we're talking about authenticity."

So what does the rate of pay in the restaurant/food service have to do with the staff in Asian-food restaurants being Asian? Please don't point me to a link - let's hear it in your own words please.

Thanks, I'll look at that.

If you've got something to say, please have the intestinal fortitude to come straight out with it, and not imply some unsubstatiated rubbish.

I'm posting on what I can see around me in my own town. The 'ethnic' population is quite possibly one of the lowest in the UK, this is why I'm asking about other areas.

I'm sure you've missed this but I don't "do" stereotypes.

Re: still racist
 

Russ, without labouring the point (and ruining Coggy's Pimms and after eights evening altogether) the paragraph in which the above phrase was used was fairly self explanatory in that I even cited an example by way of clarification.

They are interlinked in that those coming from an ethnic minority are more predisposed to take lower paid jobs in certain sectors due to their social standing (perceived or otherwise). SLM's examples (whilst not my own words) are a perfect reflection of this.

Not a problem, you're welcome. There are some truly alarming figures contained in that which show how the UK is starting to pan out workforce wise. Incidentally NI, as a micro reflection of ethnic employment, has actually a higher per capita ratio of uptake in certain sectors. However, a lot of this is directly due to ("ex" if you believe the papers) paramilitary involvement in racketeering, social security fraud and protection rackets.

Apologies if you were offended. I posted on the premise that you were more worldlywise than your post implied and, to be honest, I thought you were simply being mischievous in posting what you did. Given your explanation I was wrong with regard to your intent so again, sorry.

Peace.

Re: still racist
 

Mate of mine used to work in a Chinese restaurant in Glastonbury, she's caucasian.
I'm pretty sure at least one of the waiteresses in MK's Elements chinese restaurant is caucasian.
Likewise with the Indian Cottage last time I was there which was some time ago (think it's the Indian Palace now).

So, 52% of Bangladeshis work in restaurants (and most curry houses are run by Bangladeshis rather than Indians if memory serves), and only 1% of white people do.
Yet people are suprised that there are more Bangladeshis working in curry houses than white people and jump to the conclusion that whites are obviously being discriminated against.
This thread has show so much "interesting" logic you know?

Re: still racist
 

I often find that if there is a discussion along the lines of "asians are discriminated in the work place" there will be people who will always come out with "but asians are racists themselves, they will only employ their own etc etc", often typical of escapee's earlier post for example.

The problem is that rather than look at why the indian restaurant trade for example is dominated by asian workers, an assumption is made that asian restaurant owners simply don't employ whites because they are racist. There are many reasons why you see predominately asians in the restaurant trade, from cooks to waiting staff, and a predominate reason is that hardly anyone else wants to work on the same wages doing the same long hours.

And before we criticise the owners for wanting cheap labour, well one of the reasons for this is the result of us wanting cheap curries to eat. Hardly anyone cares about the salary a waiter gets, all they are interested in is how much their chicken korma is costing.

Re: still racist
 

I don't see anyone jumping to any conclusions, do you? Actually scrub that - perhaps the wrong person to ask, seeing as you seem to think so.

What I see is someone describing the local situation and questioning why things are the way they are.

---------- Post added at 23:44 ---------- Previous post was at 23:41 ----------

...and yet they seem to do so in other jobs. Security for instance. I'm not accusing anyone of racism, but I don't accept the "whites don't want to work for the same low pay and hours" argument.

Re: still racist
 

Surely they get the minimum wage, just like most other waitress/waiter jobs ?

Re: still racist
 

Of course they will, and i know a few people who have worked in chinese/indian restaurants and they came out with not bad money really because they got their tips, unlike where i work and there are no asian/black people working in the place i work, so i'd say in some, possibly a lot of cases that indian restaurant and the like pay better. Quite few Polish people work at our place though.

Re: still racist
 

The restaurant trade is totally different from security in the nature of its work. I've not worked in security but Ive spent a few weeks helping a close friend when he set up his restaurant in Leicester. From comparing my role with that of my uncle who works in security in Slough, my job was much harder. I am reasonably fit but mentally and physically come 12am, I just wanted to go home, not clean up tables and the kitchen. I would say the resturant trade is much tougher than most security roles Ive seen, and if they were paying the same I'd rather be in security than in waiting in a restaurant.

I do believe that there are a lot of White english people (I live in London) who do not want do do 'menial' jobs such as waitressing/waiting, cleaning, chambermaiding. The Hilton hotel in Purley way croydon would be paying the minimum wage to its chambermaids, why are they all black or eastern european? Is the Hilton discriminating, or are only these people applying for the job.

My current contract sees me working in a blue chip consultancy firm in London. All the cleaners are Nigerian. I have been there 18 months and I have yet to see a White english person (ie born and bred here) cleaning the toilets at work.

THis is not just happening in those 2 companies, but is typical in industry today. Are you telling me that all cleaning, hotel and restauranteers are being racist? or discriminating?

I think not.

Re: still racist
 

You're having a laugh - with comments like that you expect to be taken seriously ?

Perhaps we could equally say that stopping more blacks than whites is 'putting things right' :rolleyes:

Re: still racist
 

Work differs from company to company. Some security work is easy, sitting in a cabin watching CCTV screen, others risk their lives in retail with violent shoplifters. Your perameters earlier were "low pay and long hours".

And yet they still do them?

Why are you automatically assuming I believe racism is involved? All I'm doing is asking why something happens the way it does. You should know I won't mince words, if I thought racism was the key then I'd come right out and say it.

Re: still racist
 

Yes there are white English people who do cleaning and chambermaiding, but in every single comapny I have worked in (in the last 12 years of my employment working across over a dozen blue chip companies) I have yet to see even 10 percent of white english people doing the cleaning at any of the premises I have worked in.

In Tooting, Balham, even Croydon, in the restaurants I go in (indian, also Pizza Hut, Pizza Express, Nandoes, Thai restaurants, etc etc) the majority of staff are not white English.

Most security men at the buildings that I work in in the Strand and Farringdon are either south African or black Africans.

So thats my basis of when I say that in my opinion a high percentage of White english people do not want to do those jobs. The blacks, asianss, foreigners, eastern europens etc etc that do, probably have no choic but to do so. Maybe they wont be entitled to benefits by sitting at home, maybe they are here illegally and will work for anything etc etc, but I cant see companies like Prudential and BP and SHell employing illegal immigrants, even through third parties.

I was not saying that you Russ B, feel that racism or discrimination is involved. This thread is titled racism and there are posters implying that restauranteers or asian business are only employing pakistanis because they are discriminating. My question was open to the participants of the thread, maybe it didnt look that way. It was not targetted at you personally.

So anyway, since you dont think racism is involved, why do you think that this is the case Russ?.

Re: still racist
 

This is why I initially suggested it's geographical - around here most of the employees of the companies you mention are white Welsh people.

Ditto above.

I have no idea - hence my asking what others thought. I'm willing to believe it's not racism but I balk at the notion that white Brits don't want the same hours and pay.

Re: still racist
 

It was going so well..:(


but then this is CF...:erm:

Re: still racist
 

The problem is that some politicians and other equally unqualified experts seem to believe in the misnomer that is a multi-culturial society.

It doesn't work, people like to be around their own kind, it makes them feel secure and safe. If you're an immigrant you don't want to be the only immigrant on you street, You'll feel like an outcast. If immigration was a slow process then the immigrants coming in would feel like they had to integrate in order to belong, but with the levels of mass immigration large communities have been born and therefore immigrants feel like they don't need to integrate.

Also in areas where there are a lot of immigrants where are all the former owners of these houses??? Well as soon as an area starts to get a large asian population then all the white people scarper because suddenly they're in the minority and don't feel comfortable with that and need to move to where they're back in the majority. All their kids are pulled out the local school because there are too many asian kids there and you end up with 99% asian schools and 99% white schools literally hundreds of yards from each other. So the next generation of kids don't mix leading to more segregation of communities.

Integration doesn't work, multi-culturalism doesn't work (well not the way this and previous governments have tackled it).

multi-culturalism and integration would and could work if immigration had been controlled and thought about and immigrants had been given time for their communities to integrate with the existing communities instead of the mass immigration we got which threw it all out of kilter.

Re: still racist
 

I think you have probably hit the nail on the head to a certain extent, I know in Cardiff the immigrants who came in many years ago were sailors that settled there. I believe the majority were single men who settled and married local women, this has meant they have integrated into society.
There does tend to be distinct areas in Cardiff where these immigrants live, but I think that was mainly due to them living close to the area they worked.

I also know a black Jamiaican family ( an ex-girfriend of mine) whos mother came over here after getting a british passport when Jamaica became independant. She has 2 sisters and 3 brothers all married, and the strange thing is not one member of her immediate family are married to a black person. So you could say they have fully integrated into the community unlike other races.

I think very often its all down to accepting that you are no better than anyone else, and different cultures act differently and have different morals. Some races will never integrate into this country because they disagree with our way of life and our religious beliefs, at the end of the day as they say.

When in Rome do as the Romans do.

Re: still racist
 

So, going by your examples above you have to marry someone outside your culture/religion/race to fully integrate? And the black person above has fully integrated unlike other races? Well not knowing how you are defining race, what about the black Jamaicans who are married to black people. Are they not of the same race as the woman in your example above? HAve they failed to integrate?

If a Pakistani muslim marries an English born white muslim (yes they do exist) has the asian person integrated, or failed to because he is still a muslim? Are converts to Islam born and bred in this country now not integrating anymore?

I think you are saying that non Christians should abandon their religious convictions if they want to integrate in this country? Is that right?

I think your reasoning and argument is totally differnt to Pierre's who makes some good points that can be discussed. Your views just often make me shake my head in disbelieve when I read them.

Re: still racist
 

I live in a village with a population of just a few thousand. We have a local indian restaurant and takeaway and the owner has been trating in our village for 30 years. A mate of mine (welsh and white) managed the restaurant for him. He was a chef but left all the cooking to the Indian chefs. they were superb at what they did. They cook traditional Indian dishes in the way that they are taught from the region they or their famiy originate from. That is what makes certain curries taste better/worse in different restaurants.

I also worked in the restaurant for a bit when I was a bit short on cash, and they all welcomed me with open arms.

Re: still racist
 

For me the problem with an debate on racism these days means the white community having to take criticism but other communitie's play the victim. As i said earlier that is simply not the case i have been on the end of some pretty unpleasant racism from members of the asian community mainly after 9/11 when i had asian lads driving past in their cars telling me i should have been in the twin towers and they hoped i and all like me died like the "kafir's" (think thats how it is spelt) we are. It is a debate that while i would hope there can be a peaceful solution too i can't help but feel enoch powell was more accurate about how it will be resolved sadly.

Re: still racist
 

Spot on!!
But, lets be honest, This and previous gov have only let in immigrants to keep the wages of the working man down!
In the 50's they were not going to pay a decent wage for bus drivers etc, so they bought in the west Indians. More recently, Builders were starting to earn good money again after the 90's crash. They cant have the peasants doing to well, so we'll let in a load of cheap eastern euro labour, now the day rates are starting to fall because the Poles are undercutting everyone, well they can, they don't pay tax or VAT ffs.
At the end of the day successive Govt's are to blame not the immigrants.
This country is run for the rich, not the workers

Re: still racist
 

.So Cowboy builders not being able to charge the earth for leaving two bags of hardened cement on your door step is a bad thing?

Re: still racist
 

Apparently it's better to be ripped off by British Cowboy builders than have the work done properly for a reasonable price by foreigners, and obviously unpatriotic to suggest that British builders should do a resonably priced proper job.
Reminds me of some Asian builders down Incog's way, their slogan is "You've tried the Cowboys, now try the Indians" :D

Re: still racist
 

dole figures can be very deceiving

you will find about a third of that 1 million are those over 55 who have to sign on but are not going to be doing most of the jobs on offer for various reasons

about a another third will be in between jobs

and then you have the longterm unemployed who though most are willing to work wont get jobs from many firms as they tend to shun the long term jobless

Re: still racist
 

Do me a favour will you, have you seen the quality of the Poles work??

---------- Post added at 16:32 ---------- Previous post was at 16:31 ----------

Thats utter tosh, and you know it, but hey, you go employ the Poles and see what you get.

Re: still racist
 

Unfair to refer them as 'the Poles' as if you can draw some sort of conculsion about a entire races work from one or two examples. I got my walkman stolen by a French Person once, does mean I think all the French are criminals.

Re: still racist
 

---------- Post added at 17:43 ---------- Previous post was at 17:24 ----------

No, they dont have to marry a white person to integrate. The example I gave was of a family that no one could deny have integrated into the country they live in. The worst offenders for not integrating are people who originate from countries where every day life revolves around and is controlled by religion. (Not in the case of Jamaica)
My girlfriend is very religious and is a member of a religion that I would not choose to be part of, however despite her visits to pray 3 or 4 times a week and being from an asian country she has fully integrated into the community here.

She has not given up on her religion or the love of her home country, but she has instead accepted the way of life in the UK and adapted. (whilst stashing away the lovely money she earns here for her return to live in luxury) If she didn't like life that much in the UK she would go back home to live. She does not think the UK is different because there are terrible people like myself who speak their mind and do not follow any religion, but that doesn't cloud her judgement of people.

The biggest offenders who fail to integrate are those who come to the UK and hate our way of life, because the women act like whores and the men drink alchohol etc etc, why go to live in a country if you feel that way about it. If you have no choice but to live there its just something you have to put up with.

certain groups who come to live here segregate themselves instead of mixing with us nasty westerners, and there is certainly religion involved in the majority.

Re: still racist
 

Interestingly, one of the least integrated groups (from what I gather), is the Chinese. Now there's a group that sticks to their own. Yet, you don't hear of trouble with the Chinese much.

Re: still racist
 

Lets face it racism exists iin all cultures in one form or another not just white against black,asian or oriental but and vice versa white against white as an example but not meaning to offend anyone, how many times have you heard the expression irrish.scots,welsh or english barsteward from another person born in the UK this could be construed as a form of racism.
Or even the caste system employed in asian countries could also be construed as racist

Re: still racist
 

Talking of tosh, I can't agree with anything you're saying. I've only ever worked with 2 Polish guys and both were very hardworking and reliable.

Re: still racist
 

I've never used Polish workmen, but I know a few Poles. They are amongst the hardest working people I have met.

More than I can say for the English..

Re: still racist
 

Good point, I agree there.

It was always said (at least around here) that you would not see chinese people out and about in the daytime. That I believe was true, and without stereotyping them it was a case that the chinese around here owned/worked in takeaways. I guess they would not be seen out and about shopping for food because they didn't need to because it was delivered for the business.

I can also say I have never to my knowledge seen anyone of chinese appearance out and about in the pubs around here, again I expect that is a different matter in larger areas.

I do also however fail to remember any chinese people ranting and complaining about the british way of life or execting us to change to suit them, they have come here to earn thier living and just get on with it. I agree they are one of the least integrated groups, but they also appear to be one of the least complaining minority groups.

My girlfriends friends and work collegues from the Phillipines also have their own community in Cardiff, outsiders from their community are welcome and encouraged to attend their BBQ's or house parties. Although not noted for being heavy consumers of alcohol, people from her community can often be seen out and about on a friday or saturday night in Cardiff. They just appear to mix in and get along with just about everyone, although there are certain races even the generally mild mannered filipinos do not like.

PS> I guess integrating is easier for the filipinos because the majority work in hospitals, where they mix on a regular basis with work collegues from different cultures.

Re: still racist
 

.
As is the case with most immigrants to this country.
For example the majority of asians that I know and see are working or running their own businesses and integrate very well into the community. Remember you dont have to spend all your spare time in the pub to integrate. It does suprise me that the only asians you seem to know, with the exception of your girlfriend dont integrate, they only mix with other asians, they all stash their money into the family pot on so called religious reasons.

I suggest you open your eyes a bit more outside your social circle and see what the majority of people do.

.
..
.
.
In London if you visit the top companies such as Price Waterhouse, KPMG, Deloitte, HSBC, Morgan Stanley, all the London Hospitals, there is a high proportion of Asians working there (by which I mean Pakistanis and Indians). They seem to be integrated very well, and all these companies provide prayer rooms for people of ALL faiths. This is replicated in the midlands, Glasgow, quite a few places in fact.

I am beginning to think that your experience of seeing what asian immigrants do is limited to a very narrow and shallow experience.And I am specifically refering to Asians because in my opinion, based on a lot of posts you've written in the past, I feel that it is the Asian (particulary Pakistani muslim) immigrants that you have a big problem with.

Re: still racist
 

This is the point I was trying to make several pages back - it seems to be geographical.

Re: still racist
 

Can you elaborate on that please Russ.

Re: still racist
 

There's a very low ethnic population around here and equally few ethnics working in major employers in the area.

Re: still racist
 

Thanks.

In terms of proportions of Asians/Indians working in the companies I quoted, I think when I wrote high proportion it can be misleading. What I mean to say is there are a lot of(quite a few) Asians working there. In one of the firms I have worked in they employ approximately 4000 people across a number of buildings in London. The 3 floors I worked on in one building had approximately 400 people, of which I'd say 30 were Asian. So although there are a lot of Asians, it still makes up a low percentage of the workforce. I wouldn't say Asians make up more than 15 percent, its just that we see more because the firms employ more people as a whole.

Maybe these percentages are reflected nationwide.

Re: still racist
 

I think you may find that one of the main reasons that the labour is of ethnic origin is that a great amount of companies use Employment Agencies for recruiting staff for 'menial duties'. These Employment Agencies can make more money by signing eastern europeans on their books.

Re: still racist
 

The company I currently work for uses 2 agencies for a lot of its admin roles. I would say that 80 percent of the temps placed by these agencies in the department I work in (we would be talking approx 120 admin temps in total) are foreigners (South Africans/Eastern European). They get paid @ £80/day for 7.5hour days.

I have friends who are currently doing admin work on banking complaint projects where the daily rate for temp admin can be as high as 210 a day. A friend of mine is a team leader of 20 in such a project and he tells me that 80% are south africans and aussies.

So in this case its not like the agencies are paying low wages, so why is it that most of the positions are still taken up by immigrants.

Re: still racist
 

210 a day for temp admin? That would rack up to 50k a year at 20 days a month for 12 months (about double the national average fulltime salary). What qualifications are required for this job?

Re: still racist
 

Abbey National banking complaints are currently paying between 175 a day and 250 for roles ranging from admin to team leader.

I have a friend who blagged a team leader role, he works a 5pm to 10pm and he's on 250 a day for a 6month contract.

I personally know a dozen temps (mainly south african) who have got jobs there on anywhere between 175 and 210, evening shifts pay the most. For banking complaints you dont need to have FSA qualifications, and most of these guys are on admin roles (i.e case processing) and following a set structure/process.

THey are all on performance related contracts. If they do not meet their weekly targets then they are out, simple as that but thats the risk you take for a high return i guess.

The Abbey are so busy in Milton Keynes that the agency tells applicants that there is no physical desk space there anymore.

Another colleague of mine currently on 80 a day has an interview this week for a role in Pension Review (no FSA qualifications required) for 195 a day. He's austrailian.

The roles are 3 to 6 month contracts but most of the admin staff I know in my current role have been here a 9 months at least (but they are on 80 a day)

Re: still racist
 

They sure are deceiving, considering half the people claiming sickness benefit would be better of on the dole but what do peoples lives matter as long as the figures look nice, good point about the long term unemployed as well, who say's they are shunned, the dole office perhaps? The same dole office that has in a lot of cases left them to rot for years, without even bothering to check if they have cv's?

---------- Post added at 08:39 ---------- Previous post was at 08:31 ----------

I have worked with hundreds of them and can honestly say they are no more hard working than anyone else, Britain has always worked the longest hours in Europe, that hasn't changed since the Polish arrived and in my experience neither has the output where I work

Re: still racist
 

I think Britain working the longest hours would be true of professional office jobs (most of the surveys I have read/come across) suggest this. I wouldnt say it is through across the whole workforce though.

When we recently did up our house we used english guys for central heating/electrics and a year or so later asian builders and jamaican plasterers for new kitchen & bathrooom and internal decorations.

From my experience the English guys came across as the least hard working, but maybe thats the nature of the job they were doing.

Re: still racist
 

With many jobs you have no option but to do a lot of hours if you want to earn any money and whilst people could argue that the ammount of hours spent in the workplace doesn't mean more work gets done, I'd say that would be due to poor management rather than laziness

Re: still racist
 

That's not my experience at all.

The Chinese are the very best at integrating in the community whilst managing to retain their cultural identity.Every non English speaking Chinese student that I've ever had, has learned to speak English fluently in less than a year,most of them within 6 months.Yes some parents rely on their children at first but most learn enough to converse with the community through their children eventually.I've a great deal of respect for them.In fact I've respect for most Asians because most do make excellent students.:tu:

Re: still racist
 

I'm sure there are hard working and lazy people of all races and nationalities, I really don't think you can have a sensible discussion about this on this forum based on personal views and experiences.

---------- Post added at 14:30 ---------- Previous post was at 14:23 ----------

Indeed,I agree, I think the Chinese are an example of how to integrate into a society without losing your identity and basically not bothering anyone.

You never hear of Chinese burning flags or marching. You never hear of the Chinese council of Britain being offended every two minutes. Even when the Chinese form their own communities usually callled Chinatown in whatever city and whatever country it is usually a colourful place and non-threatening.

I think the Chinese are great.

Re: still racist
 

I disagree entirely - the English people around here are no less hard-working than the Welsh, Poles, Scottish, Indians or anyone else.

Re: still racist
 

In that case, listening to some people in this thread, no one at all works in Wales :D

Re: still racist
 

Like I said in the entirety of my post, I was talking about some English guys who came to do some work in my house, comparing to the Sikhs and Jamicans that were also working, not the entire nation.

Re: still racist
 

If you read my post and take note you will see I said


1) Members of the filipino community in Cardiff have integrated well
2) The Indians I have worked with have been very friendly
3) The 2 pakistanis I worked with were certainly not
4) The 2 pakistanis put money into the family pot
5) The Chinese do not complain

I did not say

a) All Asian do not integrate
b) I did not say they all put money in the family pot
c) I did not say all Asians are controlled by religion

What I said was Asians who are controlled by religions are the ones that don't integrate well, I expect moving to another country controlled by the same religion would be easier for them. I did not tar all Asains with the same brush because Asia is a large area with many different cultures, some are friendly by nature and willing to get on with everyone else whilst others do not appear so.

PS. You are right, Pakistanis are the ones I have most difficulty with. but then again I also have a dislike for middle east gentlemen (term used loosely) who hang around groping white women in bars.

Actually a pakistani in my town was complained about in one of the local large chain pubs, he had been warned on various occasions for his lewd action and groping women. He was banned from the establishment, and as a result drafted a letter of complaint threatening action against them for being racist. The pub manager went back on his ban and he is now allowed back in the premises, he used the race card as a threat when it had nothing to do with his race or skin colour but everything to do with the way he conducted himself.

Re: still racist
 

[QUOTEPS. You are right, Pakistanis are the ones I have most difficulty with. but then again I also have a dislike for middle east gentlemen (term used loosely) who hang around groping white women in bars........................
Actually a pakistani in my town was complained about in one of the local large chain pubs, he had been warned on various occasions for his lewd action and groping women. He was banned from the establishment, and as a result drafted a letter of complaint threatening action against them for being racist. The pub manager went back on his ban and he is now allowed back in the premises, he used the race card as a threat when it had nothing to do with his race or skin colour but everything to do with the way he conducted himself.][/QUOTE]

Whilst I can see, sort of, that you do not mean to imply anything untoward in your posts, can you not see that the language you use and the way in which you construct your sentences will lead people to think otherwise?

Re: still racist
 

I have read enough of your posts on this forum to come up with the opinion that you do not like PAkistanis, you dont like immigrants (non white ones who happen to be brown skinned and from Pakistan) and you dont like muslims.

The think is a lot of what you say contradicts itself. You also come up with some useless examples about pakistanis putting money in a Pot. Did you not watch Bread? You know putting money in a joint pot is not exclusively Pakistani.

As for your Indians who integrate so well, are you certain that they are not "ruled by religion"?

You might not be tarring all asians with the same brush, especially if you bring in the Chinese to your equation, but you certainly seem to tar all pakistani muslims (especially immigrants) with the same brush.

In my opinion there is a racist undertone to what you write, but you try to deflect this by saying you cant be racist because you have an immigrant asian (i think) girlfriend. Whether o not she exists I don't know, but I think we both know where you're coming from.

Re: still racist
 

'I've got an immigrant girlfriend' certainly does seem to have replaced 'One of my best friends is black'. Not that I am implying anything other than, the posters that seem to have real issues with immigration all seem to be in intimate relationships with one, if they are so great why try and deprive the rest of us?

Re: still racist
 

Whilst I can see, sort of, that you do not mean to imply anything untoward in your posts, can you not see that the language you use and the way in which you construct your sentences will lead people to think otherwise?[/QUOTE]


Am I supposed to like these middle eastern gentlemen who grope women?

There are white males who grope women but it is not as commonplace, to see these middle eastern appearance men groping women is not something I am happy with. If it were one white male or a group of white males they would generally be ejected from the premises straight after a complaint, but we have a fear in this country of treating people equal. I would go as far as to say a white man conducting himself in this manner would be more likely to be on the end of a physical attack.

I am not sure if it is common practice in some countries to help yourself and grope women like they are a piece of cattle in the marketplace, but very few people find it acceptable in our culture.

The Pakistani man was not banned because he was dark skinned, a different appearance to anyone else or because he followed a different religion. he was banned because he acted like a dirty pervert and was only banned after numerous complaints for touching women in a 'not very gentlemanly way' in more than one licensed premises. It is however a shame that the manager did not have the common sense to enforce the ban, but instead chooses to bow down to a threat by somone who says they will report him and have the local newspaper involved.

Fair treatment works both ways, it is not a one way street. To be treated fairly you have to treat others as you expect to be treated yourself. I fail to see how the guy could show his face in the place again after being banned for such conduct.

---------- Post added at 18:10 ---------- Previous post was at 18:02 ----------

Because I chose my girlfriend because of her personality, looks and her kind nature. Filipinos are noted for their caring kind nature and they can get on with just about anyone. (yes even me)

Filipinos are not that different to the majority of us though, there are people from countries in Asia that they are not keen on. The same can be said of Africans and it certainly can of Carribeans.

Oh, if we want to play the my girlfriend is etc, they have been.

Welsh
English
filipino
Jamaican
Zimbabwean
South African
Cameroon
Nigerian
Gambia

I have also been on dates with women from many other different Carribean, African and one other Asian country.

I think many people make the mistake of someone speaking their mind as racist, or better still its an easy label to use when feeling uncomfortable with the truth.

Re: still racist
 

Tbh time to bin this thread it is going to go the same way as all threads on all forums like this go. Lets make it real simple if your white you have nothing to say on racism as you are the only ones doing it and everyone else is a victim of your white racism. Whenever there are examples given of it being the other way round on forums one of two things happen 1 it is rubbished and the poster insulted or 2 they simply ignore it and continue with their "white is racist" bs. Am i a racist not yet but i am getting there tbh and it is this current climate that is pushing me and many many others to an extreme that we would rather not be anywhere near. While it is a cliche i had 3 non white best friends as i was growing up 1 chinese and 2 vietnamese and while due to us all moving around the UK over time we have lost contact i would still consider them to be friends if i met them again. It simply is not possible to maintain a rational debate on racism in the UK because the fact is there are victims on all sides not the nice simple view that pervades that only whites are racist and everyone else suffers.

Re: still racist
 

Quote:

Am I supposed to like these middle eastern gentlemen who grope women?

You missed the point of my post. To say it's Pakistani people you have a problem with. And then tell the story you told? I wasn't even referring to your comments on the 'middle eastern gentleman' as you referred to it. Can you not see the way people may view your posts?

You keep on using personal experiences to back up your arguments. Whilst I don't deny that they happened as you say they did, many people find it difficult to accept as a valid stand point.

Are you supposed to like these middle eastern gentlemen who grope women?
Did you think about taking the words 'middle eastern' out of the sentence? As a female anyone who gropes women would come under the same umbrella for me. And I assume you think the same. But the language you sometimes can give people a different take on what your trying to say.

Re: still racist
 

An asian work mate of mine was driving us back from work one morning (worked nights) emptyish road at just after 6am and cop car pulled us up. He had to show licence then that was it, no apperent reason for it. Then as if they were showing they drove off and through a red light in front of us. I have never been pulled over like this before in my life but he told me it happens to him reasonably often.

Re: still racist
 

[quote=TheDaddy;34331206]They sure are deceiving, considering half the people claiming sickness benefit would be better of on the dole but what do peoples lives matter as long as the figures look nice, good point about the long term unemployed as well, who say's they are shunned, the dole office perhaps? The same dole office that has in a lot of cases left them to rot for years, without even bothering to check if they have cv's?

---------- Post added at 08:39 ---------- Previous post was at 08:31 ----------

i think you have been reading the sun to much there most on long term sickness are there because they are ill

yes there are always some who shouldn't be on it but to tar those who are ill in with them is churlish

Re: still racist
 

Yet Gordon Brown himself say's there are over a million claiming sickness based benefit's that shouldn't be, that's 20% that they are prepared to admit to

Re: still racist
 

All spin, to claim long term incapacity benefit you have to pass tough medical assessments, you also have to have a work history to qualify as its a contribution based benefit.

People with no medical qualifications trying to claim they know if people are fit to work or not.

The reason behind this spin is to reduce the social welfare tax burden since job seekers allowance is less generous.

Re: still racist
 

I don't doubt the reasons why old Gordon said this, what I don't doubt either are the figures, they show that in 2005 social security fraud cost Britain tens of millions and a lot of that fraud was carers allowance, disability benefit and incapacity benefit rip offs and what I also don't doubt is that once people start claiming, just how easy it is for the powers that be to 'forget' about them

Re: still racist
 

Speaking as someone on incapacity benefit TheDaddy may i suggest that before you go grabbing your large tar all brush you actually find out what the hell you are on about. For the record i know better then most how many skiving git's are on incapacity as i see them both in and out of hospital and it annoy's me and the other genuine claimants more then it annoy's you.

As for the longtime unemployed not being shunned yeah right more proof you have no idea what the hell you are on about. Before i was moved to incapacity benefit i (oh and i have a very professional curriculum vitae) I applied for over 500 jobs with a variety of reasons why i didn't get the job i attended 5 courses in all to get the qualifications company's said they wanted only to get another excuse when i went back to them.

Yes there is fraud in the benefits system and i want it eliminated but it is not as endemic or large as some politicians and the media would like you to think. They want the public up in arm's about benefits so that the next time they come down harder on claimants the mass of the public will nod and not say a damn thing about level's of treatment that would have most people up in arm's if it happened to them.

The daddy please make sure you know what your on about before spouting off and don't fall for everything you hear from politicians and the media.

Re: still racist
 

Actually I used to work with the long term unemployed, helping them back into work, it was very specialised and we only took the most difficult cases on, quite a few of them had been written of due to sickness or length of unemployment, some didn't even have a cv despite years on the dole and tbh I was absolutely disgusted at their treatment in a lot of cases, oh and I like the way you put words in my mouth, at no time have I said everyone on benefits is a scrounger and tbh it isn't the money the work shy and skivers take that bothers me as you suggest, it's the fact they are wasting time, you only live once

Re: still racist
 

Tens of millions is a drop in the ocean.

If it is tens of millions the % would mean its a lot lower then 1 million people since 1 million is more then half claimants, thats quite a claim for a government to make to suggest more then half claimants are defrauding the system.

Of course when you compare it to government waste and tax evasion its pennies. Those 3 benefits you mention are recieved by a very vulnerable part of society who is unlikely to fight back in a way to affect a general election.

---------- Post added at 16:13 ---------- Previous post was at 16:10 ----------

Yeah we all know there is some level of fraud but he is bang on right that its been massively exaggerated with the bbc's help via prime time documentaries and news reports. Its all timed to soften up the public for a welfare reform bill.