Re: Is it wrong to hijack your neighbours router?
 

How can that be so, when no court in the land would consider an unlocked car or house to provide sufficient cause to assume implied consent? At best, taking goods from an unlocked house might get you a conviction for theft rather than burglary.

Re: Is it wrong to hijack your neighbours router?
 

Re: Is it wrong to hijack your neighbours router?
 

A completely false distinction. You can't pick up and discard analogies simply based on whether they fit your argument or not.

If, for the sake of argument, you were daft enough to write down your online banking details and then leave the paper behind in an internet cafe, would I be justified in law if I were to empty your bank account, arguing that your carelessness amounted to a reasonable belief of implied consent?

Re: Is it wrong to hijack your neighbours router?
 

By the letter of the law, you are correct, no doubt about it.

But you can't make comparisons between thieving the contents of someone's bank account to stealing a bit of bandwidth from them.

They are both crimes, but are in completely different leagues. Should we start treating litter crime the same as murder and rape, just because all are deemed as illegal?

Like I said in my previous post, many things are illegal, but not viewed as wrong(even by the police themselves in some cases).

Re: Is it wrong to hijack your neighbours router?
 

Indeed, but now you're talking about degrees of wrongness and the appropriate sanction to be taken against them - whereas you started out asking whether it was simply right or wrong.

You are debating a different question. ;)

Re: Is it wrong to hijack your neighbours router?
 

Trespass is a key feature in many laws.

Is this a Forum rule?;)

Your analogy involves passwords which, by their very nature, cannot assume implied consent.

A better analogy would be a bowl of sweets in the internet cafe with a sign saying "Please help yourself".

Re: Is it wrong to hijack your neighbours router?
 

Come the revolution, my friend. :D

I don't agree. In both cases the service is effectively 'unlocked' by deliberate action of the owner. If the existence of a password in one case makes it different to the lack of a password in another, then your analogy fails because while the bowl of sweets has a sign saying 'please help yourself', an unsecured wireless network does not have any such sign.

Re: Is it wrong to hijack your neighbours router?
 

No, you implied the bank account details were left in the cafe by mistake, not deliberately.

I think we've reached the crux (or one of the cruxes) of the matter. I would say that the unsecured wireless network has such a sign by implication - after all, it doesn't take much effort to hide or secure the signal. I suppose you might say "what if the sign on the bowl of sweets went missing, does this still imply that the sweets are free?" - I hope you don't ask this, as it would be tricky to answer...:disturbd:

Re: Is it wrong to hijack your neighbours router?
 

I clarified my question in post 99. I know it's illegal, but is it wrong(in your personal view, not the black and white view of the law)?


You are the one comparing different crimes to state your case, even although the crimes being compared are at completely different levels.

Re: Is it wrong to hijack your neighbours router?
 

If the wireless SSID was "OpenToAll" or "FreeBroadband" or "FreeloadersWelcome" would that change anything?

Re: Is it wrong to hijack your neighbours router?
 

I didn't imply any such thing. :angel: Not that it makes any difference. The key thing for your argument is what the person taking the service (or the cash) reasonably believed he was doing - taking something he had implicit permission to take, or stealing.

In the absence of a sign saying 'I left my bank details here deliberately' or perhaps 'My wireless network is open for all comers', what is reasonable?

Well, go on then ... :D

While you're thinking about the answer to that, let me contest your assertion that it's easy to secure your network. I usually offer my mother in law as an example in these sorts of situations. Her enthusiasm for technology is several decades ahead of her ability to understand how to use it properly.

The point is, I don't think levels are relevant. Something is either right or it's wrong. Sanctions taken against something that is wrong may vary according to the damage caused by doing the wrong, but that doesn't alter the essential black-or-white nature of either the Law or your original question. Right or wrong? I say wrong.

I am indeed using legal examples, because in our society there is a reasonably good correlation between what people generally consider to be right and wrong, and what the law says is right and wrong.

Re: Is it wrong to hijack your neighbours router?
 

How about this:

"Take my mother-in-law... please (boom boom)"

Changing the password from "admin" (or whatever) to "pussycat" is a lot easier than setting up an online bank account. Can't her son-in-law help?

So, using Mr Jackson's example, would you lock up children (or their parents) who "pee at the side of the road on a long car journey"?

Morality and the law are two distinct issues. I think the opening post was designed to discuss the former.

Re: Is it wrong to hijack your neighbours router?
 

Mind me please im new to all this wireless stuff so how would you know if someone was useing your network.my settings are wpa-personel (aes).

Re: Is it wrong to hijack your neighbours router?
 

The points in question I believe are people accessing unsecured wireless connections. You should be ok

Re: Is it wrong to hijack your neighbours router?
 

To answer AJ's original question - my personal view is that it is wrong.

Re: Is it wrong to hijack your neighbours router?
 

Well, now that he has been permanently banned, I doubt if he cares a great deal.

Re: Is it wrong to hijack your neighbours router?
 

AJ banned? what for? his posts always made me laugh

Re: Is it wrong to hijack your neighbours router?
 

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/34289773-post18.html

Is all I could find. Plus it was suggested he had been banned before. Must not say more. I'm probably breaking forum rules here and deserve an infraction :disturbd:

Re: Is it wrong to hijack your neighbours router?
 

Re: Is it wrong to hijack your neighbours router?
 

Apparently WEP's about as useful as a chocolate teapot. :disturbd:

Re: Is it wrong to hijack your neighbours router?
 

The opposite of the above, but interesting! This is the first time I've seen this - do I live near a CF member?

Re: Is it wrong to hijack your neighbours router?
 

:LOL:

Re: Is it wrong to hijack your neighbours router?
 

Seen any of mine ? I tend to call mine : "FreeBoredBand"

At home I have in addition to the " secured ? " wireless networks I have one that is open for guests, visitors and really anyone wanting to use the internet without the fuss of wep/wpa keys et al.

Its bolted down by VLAN / packet rate filters (100kbps burstable to my full bandwidth) and all is available is DNS,Web,SSL,IMAP(S),POP3 which is good enough for most people.

I did try an experiment in Camden where I set up a free AP for the purpose of replaying SSL packets : Plain illegal of course. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

So if you want to steal someones broadband make sure you don't do any online banking :p

Re: Is it wrong to hijack your neighbours router?
 

Nope, never really seen any other open ones.

Bes thing to do is to go wired anywho in my book :)

Re: Is it wrong to hijack your neighbours router?
 

Indeed I tend to do very little traffic on wireless. My house has been cat5'd.

Re: Is it wrong to hijack your neighbours router?
 

Made the mistake of having our modem downstairs... So i was on wireless for ages... Then all of a sudden, a 2Gb link upstairs to down with 2xCat6 ;) And then Cat5E upstairs. So, Wireless is a thing of the past here :D

Re: Is it wrong to hijack your neighbours router?
 

Nice.

I'm not allowed any cabling around the house so all mine is CAT5e under the floorboards etc wish I ran CAT6 but I don't lose much ;)