Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

I think that link is a little tenuous for my liking....

...I think it probably has more to do with a driver who was on-course for his first podium of the season got smacked into and would like someone to blame. According to an interview with Vettel he went over to teammate Webber and apologised profuseley...why would he do that if Hamilton was to blame? And it's interesting this 'development' comes just after the FIA give Vettel a 10 place penalty for China.

It's also interesting reading an unrelated interview this week with Red Bull stablemate DC, saying what a great driver Hamilton is!

Boys, toys and prams!

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

Vettel apologised before he had seen the clip of what happened. Talking about it later he said he thought Hamilton had a problem and was going to retire as he was going so slow. vettel was looking at Hamilton who was going slow. Webber braked so he didn't overtake Hamilton and Vettel wasn't looking. By the time he had noticed Webber had braked he had hit him

A racing incident anyway no reason to dock points or grid penalties

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

I can see Hamilton be penalised 10 grid places, the FIA seem to have it in for McLaren and I don't think they want a 'rookie' to win the Championship.
Webber has also said that while he was critical of Hamiltons driving during the FIA press conference, he has, nor is making an official complaint.

Also, after Stepney has said Ferrari has had and used McLaren data, doubt we'll see any action being taken though: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/62975

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

Just heard on the news he isn't being punished :tu:

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

Good call (imho) Linky

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

Well are we just hours away from watching history being made, LH has been brilliant to watch this season (I wasn't going to bother to be honest what with ITV 100th rate coverage adverts every 5 mins, qualifying dumped to ITV3/4, but LH changed this)

He has made FA & other drivers look like the rookies, No drive has had as many Poles Wins or podums in their debut season, not even the great M Schumacher started this good.

This site has info on him so far. http://www.chicanef1.com/indiv.pl?na...amilton&type=d

If this is the shape of this to come who nows how many championships he will eventually will win.

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

It is a tortoise & hare race, tomorrow, in my opinion.

The weather may be the final arbiter in the result & many teams seem to have made a gamble on how that may affect them, during the race, rather than looking for an out & out qualifying package.

Ferrari are rumoured to be 'fueled long' - but is Alonso also carrying the same weight??

We'll know in slightly under 8 hours ;)

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

Well, he is not going to do it this year.
Out he goes.

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

Unlucky for Hamilton, I wonder what Maclaren were thinking keeping him out far to long after it was obvious that he was losing 2-3 seconds a lap due to his tyres going off :(

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

There is always the last race he could do it at;)

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

Could you imagine Alonso's reaction if McLaren had kept him out that long with duff tyres?

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

Yup, another door ripped off and a few heads too.

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

Then again not many Drivers get to debut for the top teams either :D

He is a really good driver and definitely something for the future, but he has also benefited from an excellent car for his debut season, which eludes most debutants.

(and for the "great M Shumacher" he started in the last 3rd of the season for Jordan, not exactly McLaren is it :D, not eaven Benetton which he moved to was anything like a top team at the time)

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

Spanish Motorsport Federation get FIA to appoint a special scrutineer to ensure Alonso's treated fairly...

Link

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

That's just hilarious.

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

it does seem to me that McLaren seem to get more FIA interference than any other team

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

funnily enough its because alonso suspected his final qualifying tyres were not at the correct pressure. He couldnt understand why he was slower than hammy. Sorry alonso but on that day hammy was just the better driver, he did a very 90's super soft qualifying tyre tactics just so they lasted the entire lap.

I do hope alonso comes 3rd overal and then goes to a different team so that he gets number 5 on his car. Then again number 2 would be fantastic if hammy had #1 :) though i dont think alonso could stomach that.

With regards to how well he's doing as a rookie, well to be fair rarely does a rookie start in a top 4 car, let alone a championship winning car (exception being jaques villneuve joining williams in 1996 when that car was dominent)

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

More tyre problems for Hamilton

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,195...810816,00.html

Me thinks he might leave F1, and I don't blame him.

I'm getting fed up with all this $h*t.

I'm going to Leave F1, and follow A1GP, no Bernie to rob them blind.

---------- Post added at 22:06 ---------- Previous post was at 21:17 ----------

Sanity remains
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/moto...ne/7053377.stm

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

Calm down man :)
This is/was just a standard rule infringement which was dealt with in an normal manner. It's just the press and their Hamilton-mania blowing it out of all proportions, pretty much forgetting to say Honda & Super Aguri did the same with Button & Sato. He was never going to be punished for that one as it was a team blunder.

There has always been rule infringements, Rule clarifications and investigations due to complaints within the sport which are all sorted out without all this drama in the press until now, to be quite frank all this crying in the press is getting quite tedious and starting to detract from the exciting racing. I'm sure the press and ITV :sick: would still call it the most exiting and closely fought season ever if Hamilton was/had already won the championship by 30 points.

If Hamilton leaves F1 (which I don't think he will do) just because the team he drives for were caught breaking the rules of the sport and someone dared complain about a bit of his driving (which frankly wasn't exactly stellar, and rightly investigated after a complaint, and found not to be bad enough to warrant sanctions) then he's the fool for that. He's going to clean up over the next 10-15 years if he stays.

BTW the point system should be changed to 12-8-6-5-4-3-2-1 in order to reward a race win properly. Then maybe the teams wouldn't all stop racing after the last pit stop :(

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

Lewis on front row (2nd)
Kimi 3rd

Alonso 4th

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

Strange, I didn't notice you jumping up and down when the two Fezzas were penalised for using the wrong tyres in the Fuji GP.

I think it's great we're all so passionate about Lewis winning, but I don't want him to win on the back of a bad judgement - I want the rule book to applied fairly and equally to all players...and in this instance I am happy that it has happened.

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

With less than ten mins to go before the final race of the 2007 season.

I hate bernie now even more.

This posionuios little $h*t whats Alonso to win.

Well if thats the case he can * off to Spain.

I would P**s on him even if he was on fire

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

I heard Bernie saying earlier he wanted Lewis to win and that he thought he'd win by a country mile, also he didn't hold put much hope for the British GP

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

Hamilton showed his inexperiance there trying to overtake Alonso when there was no need to, down to 18th but fighting his way through the pack, personally i think hes blown it unfortunately.

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

Up to 9th now, don't you just hate ITV, go to a break with Hamilton in 8th, come back and he is 18th :mad:

Jim.

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

WTF hamilton in the pits for fuel.

Goodbye F1 and goodbye ITV SH*T coverage

---------- Post added at 18:31 ---------- Previous post was at 18:15 ----------

Just emailed this to ITV regarding there coverage

You coverage of F1 has been totally **** all season.

Yet again adverts are interupted by the racing

Hamilton was in 8th you sod off to an ad that nobody gives a **** about. come back he's 18th.

This coverage is not even 10th rate.

Well thanks for runing a desent sport.

You wouldn't put ads in football or rugby.

Goodbye to F1 I'm going to buy Sky sports and watch A1GP which doesn't do adverts during the race

---------- Post added at 18:32 ---------- Previous post was at 18:31 ----------

Will post the responce i get

---------- Post added at 18:33 ---------- Previous post was at 18:32 ----------

McLaren blew it.

As said before BYE BYE F1

Ferrari don't derseve this

Edit Rob - please watch the language

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

I have to say well done Raikkonen...

In my opinion McClaren have allowed themselves to be distracted by the events off track, recently, while Ferrari have just got on with it.

I could see the thinking behind the short stint on the fragile supersoft tyres, for Hamilton, but why they didn't fuel him to the end when he came in to change them, is a mystery?

Ironically, despite the disappointment, it was one of the most interesting & exiting races for ages, not only Hamiltons skills at passing (the one on Barrichello was awesome), but the scrap between Kubica & Rosberg, as well.

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

My gripe with the whole spygate issue is that once again Ferrari have been invold and don't get punished.

As has been said before FIA = Ferrari International Assistant

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

Hamilton drove a great race, yes he made a mistake going into the first, but Raikkonen shut the door on him, and rightly so. Due to a redundant system error his car found itself in netural,. Coming back from 18th to finish a race in 7th to lose the championship by 1 point in a rookie season showed that Lewis doesnt give up easily. Well done Hamilton for making the 2007 season a bit more enjoyable.

ITV, revenue is all they are after, squeezing in as many adverts as possible, shame on them. I miss the BBC coverage.

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

In the pre race build up Bernie said that he thought Lewis was young enough to wait. I think Mr Hamilton's chances of winning the championship were ended there and then.

Wasn't it strange that Lewis' car lost powere for just long enough to spoil his chances of winning the championship.

No team orders? maybe not, but deffinatly Bernie/FIA orders. F! is becoming more stage managed than World Wrestling. The problem is though, that if you look just below the surface in F! you can very often predict the results from what key people say before the event.

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

gutted for lewis , but kimi won fair n square glad it wasnt allonso sick to death of him accusing every one else for his own downfall, as for tv coverage ,discusted ...advert after advert what the hell its only the grand finale, spoilt once again by itv

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

Very strange, but I really dont think is something that conspiracy theorist's will spend much time mulling it over. ;)

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

Ron said at the end that they gained 10 seconds by making it a 3 stop strategy... :shrug:

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

Love that!!!

It's going to be interesting to see what the editorials say tomorrow. Are we going to have headlines of 'LEW BLEW IT!' or a more constructive 'He came, he saw, he did his best, maybe next season?'

I would prefer the papers to take the latter option, as they have done with the England Rugby team.

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

Ron Dennis reckons that Hamilton switching to a 3 stop strategy gave him a ten second advantage so was the right decision. I think Hamilton blew it when he tried to overtake Alonso in the first lap, there was no need what so ever to do that and shows that he was the rookie.

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

Thanks, I didn't see the interviews :)

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

I disagree, he was still in 8th place until his car nearly gave out, he did very well to coax it back too life and finish where he did. The monumental cock up with the tyres in China and engine problems in this race is what cost him.
Jim.

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

Would agree there - he tried too hard right from the beginning. His engine issue no doubt caused by his run off hence the change in stops as I bet they couldn't give him a complete tank to stop him bottom'ing out on the track

Always next year - no doubt he can drive and has had a great season

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

:cleader: Fantastic result, Great job by Kimi and the team :cleader:

Lewis showed his inexperience as a rookie in the last couple of races, alongside some unreliability from the so far rock solid car. He will be WDC plenty of times in the future.

ITV :sick: coverage and the commentary was shocking. They are meant to keep a certain professional standard, and verbally willing cars to crash on the track is not it! I'm surprised they didn't start to cry at the end.

I really like the logic there; Some-one posses your classified documents and uses them to their advantage and you get punished for it.

Do I sense a sore looser here :D

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

Lewis could be world champ after all!

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/...289308,00.html

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

Something to do with the temperature of the fuel samples? :confused:

Link

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

Here we go again, watching a minor irregularity getting blown out of all proportions.

I think the temp was slightly high.

If any point deductions happens (by no mean a certainty), then precedence points towards team only.

Edit: Seems like the temperature in the BMW's was 12 degrees lower that ambient and that in Williams was 14 degrees lower.
I think the rules say it can only be 10 degrees lower.

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

Confusion reigns...

This link says too cold! :erm:

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

Lewis is being profiled on BBC 1 now if anyone is interested

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

His 'run off' was not into a gravel trap or anything similar,I don't it could have affected his car in any way.


Jim.

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

Whilst I have always been patriotic in f1 with teams and drivers this does seem a little 'too' convenient to me, why is Nakajima who finished 10th in the other Williams not under investigation?

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

You're warmer (pun intended :))

I'm guessing the colder the fuel it is, the more dense it is which enhances performance. The principles applies to air intakes anyway.

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

I was reminded of this today. If you can't watch it for two minutes without laughing you're insane allegedly :)

http://katunk.com/insanity/?a=1

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

the temp of the fuels were stored more than 10 degrease lower than the ambient temperature. Fuel has a higher density at lower temps.
Poss explanation could be that ambient temp was higher than expected.

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

Some more detail

Significantly below ambient temperature...

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

No punishment for BMW or Williams.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/63567

No doubt people will say it's all Ferrari's fault.:D

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

I assume we were watching the same race, but Hamilton didn't try to overtake Alonso, he was on the front of the starting grid, the two Ferraris took the first corner and Hamilton lost his third place to Alonso as he was concentrating on not hitting the back on Raikonnen. Perhaps that was down to his inexperience, but if Hamilton had a proper team-mate then perhaps it should not have been an issue.

I agree that the coverage from Brazil was not great, it seemed that every time Hamilton went to overtake someone they cut away to something else.

However, this is not ITV's fault, it's the local TV director and not much ITV can do about it.

And I don't really see how ITV could have guessed that Hamilton was going to have a complete gearbox failiure whilst they were on a standard ad-break. Be reasonable!

Now this I agree with, I would much rather have a whole race with no commercials - but the two things are too dissimilar; a football match can have adverts before the match, then 45 mins later, then 10 mins after that then 45 mins later again. So in 90 mins, 4 ad-breaks. In F1 you have your ads before and after, two ad breaks in 120 mins and it would just not be commercially viable.

I think to be fair to ITV, even though sometimes they do drop some of the better features, their pre-race coverage of F1 is usually superb.

I agree, two hours of total excitement, I can't remember a more dramatic race in years.

I think the deal with the pit styop to change the super softs was that there were around 35 laps to go from that point, and it was unlikely they could get enough fuel in there to the end of the race and keep race speed up.

I wondered how long it would take the conspiracy theorists to start their work! Anything can happen in F1, and yesterday most of it did - that's the way it goes sometimes.

In the last race the tyre failed, making the car un-steerable, ending his race. In yesterday's race the car had put itself in neutral for 30 seconds, dropping to 18th place.

Explain how these things are down to driver inexperience.

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

There could be a few more twists in this years championship http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/moto...ne/7055644.stm

---------- Post added at 09:32 ---------- Previous post was at 09:30 ----------

Alonso should have staged a retirement from the race when he knew he had no chance of catching the ferrari.

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

Yes, then after that he tried to overtake Alonso and he went off the track and fell back to 8th place. IMO that's what cost him the championship, he showed a lot of inexperiance in trying to do something when there was no need whatsoever to do. I don't blame Alonso, even though i can't stand the bloke, he had a chance of winning the championship and had every right to do what he did, team play goes out of the window when you have two drivers on the same team both with a chance of winning the championship imo.

He would have been slightly annoyed if Raikkonen had spun off on the last corner though wouldn't he ;) Also the rules are that team instructions are not allowed to be given during the race and it would have been a bit of a hollow win for Hamilton if Mclaren had basically cheated for him to win the title, i would rather see him win it properly next year than cheat to win it this year.

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

Alonso's backing Kimi...

Link

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

There's a surprise.

Personally I do think it would be a rubbish way to win the championship - but I also wonder what would happen if the shoe was on the other foot and it was Ferrari that had lost by one point.

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

I can't believe you are not willing to cut the guy some slack here. He has driven fantastic the whole season (his first season in F1) and he only makes something like 3 mistakes, the 2 most serious ones at the end where the pressure is enormous. Coping under such intense pressure takes experience, which he has gained plenty of this season.

He showed (IMO) lack of experience as a rookie by overcooking it on the entry to the pits, easy to do as the tyres were in a dreadful state, can even be said that he was part of the tyre mistake by not sorting out the tyres earlier,as I'm sure he has input here, and it is ultimately his decision if comes in to the pits or not. He was trying to win the championship earlier than necessary. He Overdid it trying completely unnecessarily to overtake Alonso and ran wide when he could just have just tucked in and sat tight, a bit of the old red mist there me thinks.

After all he is human and it's not easy to win in your first season, lets not forget that, before jumping to all sorts of crazy theories.

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

actually just been reading that it was LH's fault as he hit a button on the steering wheel that put it into neutral.

he had a great season and just missed out. At least he missed out going for a win each time rather than just collecting points.

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

Did you actually read what I wrote, or did you doze off after the first paragraph?;)

Source please?

Cos this is the official McLaren line just now:

And this is from the post-race interview with Lewis from the McLaren website

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

got this from F1 Live

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headline...22220432.shtml

Seems to say it was LHs fault.

I think this is McLaren management here so that he doesn't spend the whole winter feeling he lost the title himself blame it on the team so he can come back stronger

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

Hardly conclusive though? - the press has a habit of making things up to make stories

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

well i'll be far and say that I haven't that reported elsewhere but I feel this is a McLaren "strategy" to make Lewis feel better.

Seems to be better for him that he lost because of a car problem rather than driver error.

At least he lost going for a win in both races rather than just driving round picking up points

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

I know that this is now an 'old' thread, but spygate continues -

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/moto...ne/7085098.stm

Where will it end?

I seem to remember a race from several seasons ago, to which MS won. As soon as he was out of his car, he was having a good look round the cockpits of the P2 & P3 cars, to which the ITV commentators made light of, saying that he was making sure that they had nothing better than him. Didn't see him being investigated. However, having car specs is a bit different to having a 'quick look inside':)

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

the FIA shot themselves in the foot years ago when they allowed all the spying in the first place with cameras etc etc.

This is just the next step of that

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

Well Ferrari International Assistance (FIA) have done it again, and rejected Mclaren appeal.

I still wonder if it it because Mclaren would have had the world Drivers Championship sewn up.

I bet though if it had been McLaren at fault both Hamilton and Alson would have had thee points stripped.

As I said before goodbye F1, all crediability has been lost, while Max & Bernie are running things I'm outta here

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

So you reckon it would have been more credible if Lewis had won the Championship a month after the last race in court on an ambiguous technicality, on appeal lodged by a team that has been disqualified from this years championship for braking the rules... :confused:

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

No I'm not saying that, all I am saying is that this season they have been anti Mclaren, and very pro Ferrari.

What if the tables had been turned and Hamilton had won the race and Kimi had missed out by 1 point, and it was discovered later that McLaren has 'cooled' their fuel. FIA would have reject Ferrari's complaint.

I think not McLaren would have had the race results strip, handing Ferrari the Drivers Title.

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

I don't think so. The FIA would only have changed the result for an extremely grave breach of rules as any post championship change would have been bad for the sport. I would have been shocked if it had.

I agree that this year has not been a great one for the FIA they should have brought out a much more decisive verdict on the Stepneygate first time round, instead of coming out with the ridiculous half*rsed verdict of guilty but no punishment and then have to try and sort out the mess afterwards.

Would you have been watching next year if Hamilton had won ??

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

Problerly not.

I did metion a few posts ago about the email I sent to ITV, and the adverts they show.

This is the main reason that I will not be watching next year

http://www.a1gp.com/

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

Fair enough, but that (the ads) have nothing really to do with F1 it self. Their coverage is truly shocking non the less.

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

Yet another baffling decision by FIA Link

McLaren were good in saying they didn't want any team to suffer the punishment they did...

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

Not really FIA is very anti McLaren at the moment.

Re: Formula 1 Talk 2007 Season
 

Exactly the same verdict McLaren received for exactly the same crime, before it was discovered that they had used information from Ferrari.

As with the McLaren case the FIA have reserved the right to recall the case if new evidence comes to light. If this were to happen and Renault is found to have used information from McLaren (to their advantage) they should be punished accordingly.

P.S
I'm still of the opinion that both teams should have had a more decisive ruling and punishment for the crime committed in the first place. It would have been less messy in many ways (McLaren would have probably escaped with a lighter punishment and not gone to second hearing, and Renault would now have been punished for breaking the rules.)