Re: NTL Not interested in long standing customers
 

I can't believe this thread is still going round and round in circles and getting nowhere.

My experience is that I thought NTL DTV reception was terrible, gave them everychance to sort it, which they couldn't, and gave notice to cease the service. I was offered a deal by retentions which I accepted and kept the DTV for a further year ubntil that deal expired. I the dropped NTL DTV as it was no better and Sky had much more to offer.

I would have also dropped the NTL Telephone but they droppedthe 6p plan to 5p and with my usage it was as cheap as BT so why change.

Broadband has had few problems, mostly with email, but that has been very much better of late.

Overall NTL are providing me with a very good broadband and telephone service and the few times that I have had to contact them they have been as good, if not better than other companies.

NTL may have given some customers a bad experience in the past but the operative words are in the past. It is unfair to continue to give them a bad name, particularly if you haven't used their services for a while. It is also wrong to tar a company based on a rant by a customer when you have not personally witnessed the event. There are two sides to every story.

Re: NTL Not interested in long standing customers
 

That is a very good post above.........absoluteley true.

No one company is better than the other.

People have bad experiences with ntl, Telewest, Sky, BT whoever, some dont.

People cant tarnish them with the same brush.

I can except that people may have a good service from Sky or BT, I personally didnt. Which leads me to believe neither is as fantastic as some people make out. Everyoneone will have different experiences and its up to the Individual to make up their mind.

But I dont think anyone can really say that one service is conclusivly better than the other..........that is simply not true on all counts. All companies have bad apples........its unfortunate that some people come into contact with them and are scared for life.

Re: NTL Not interested in long standing customers
 

Yes, which ntl also do, except it's for 12 months.....

Re: NTL Not interested in long standing customers
 

Cant winge at that then can you ;)

Re: NTL Not interested in long standing customers
 

I think most companies in this type of industry dont care aboput customers that are paying for service.

Attracting a new customer or throwing credits to keep one who wants to disconnect is another story though. Throwing money on retentions is a cycle that ntl has gone through a number of times, they also kept customers who had cancelled their service and ones with long term debts on the books to make the figures look good. They did the same by using tens of thousands of homes passed on old networks that had been shut down for years.

Offering credits just to keep a dissatisfied customer when there is absolutely no way the company can resolve the customers gripe is nothing more than massaging figures until the customers credit runs out and the cycle starts again. :shocked:

I honestly believe (and some ntl employees) that billing problems where direct debits are taken after the customer has cancelled ntl's service is NOT incompetence but a method to make things look good. What other reason could the company have for so many ex-customers being charged for cancelled services.

It's either incompetence or fraud, take your pick ;)

Re: NTL Not interested in long standing customers
 

Just the one? ASDA, Carole Nash (not large corporation but a market leader) Direct Line, Kwik-Fit, Play.com, Firebox.com and, closer to telecomms home, Orange. You want more? I think ypou'll find many, many companies do care about long serving customers because it's cheaper to retain (and exploit commercial opportunities through cross marketing) than recruit custom.

If my point is still not getting across try comparing NTL's CS with other providers at http://www.adslguide.org.uk/isps/compare.asp I just selected five other providers against NTL and you'll never guess what, NTL came bottom for CS for every one of the past six months.

I guess this one's going to run and run but as has been pointed out, we seem to be going in circles.

Cheers all.

Re: NTL Not interested in long standing customers
 

I actually have had tesco points for paying my gas and electric bills by direct debit as a reward for moving the electric and gas over to one supplier. The Tesco points are added every 12 months if you don't move or pay late.

Re: NTL Not interested in long standing customers
 

well I actually have a genuine reason for a discount, the chances of me getting are near 0%. Kitty earlier in this thread stated we all get the same speeds and should pay the same price. Leicester is still in resegmentation stage and after my modem rebooted this morning my performance has gone back to 300ms pings to ubr and 750kbit speeds on 1.5mbit service, I have sent ignition a pm hoping he can fix for me a 2nd time because I know if I ring Tech Support they will blame it on my pc and tell me to get broadband medic. The situation is hard to judge however I personally feel any unhappy customer should be given a discount in some way but limited to how many times during the year they can get a discount unless of course their poor service remains unresolved. This should prevent abuse of the system.

Re: NTL Not interested in long standing customers
 

Having started the thread and read all the posts, I think maybe it is a good time to clarify a few points.

I have been a content customer of NTL for a number of years, only recently did I start to read and discover that if you approached NTL CS in the right manner then and only then they might do something to keep your custom.

When I did call them, I was polite and courteous and asked if it was possible to reduce my monthly bill as there are a number of other ISP's offering comparable if not better deals. I was able to quote these to NTL (so they didnt think I was just making it up and could check up if they wanted to). The response I got was surprising to say the least (see earleir thread).

I completely understand that a company has to make profits or it goes under. However when you enter a de-regulated market like telecomms you have to be able to continually drive down your own costs so that these can be passed onto the customer if there is a need to (and I stress the word IF).

My complaint was with the way I was handled by CS in being taken for granted. It is all very well courting new customers, but without a solid long term loyal customer base then your business starts to get shaky.

I expect monoplolistic companies to respond in the way I was responded to. To some extent this includes SKY, as Freeview is not a comparable service or competition and therefore they can charge what they like and you either lump it or go back to your basic 5 terrestrial channels.

So am I happy with the situation, no, but much like NTL have to make a profit I have bills to pay. This means nobody should pay top dollar for a service that they can get cheaper elsewhere just because they should'nt ask for discount.

I have negotiated discounts with my mortgage provider, credit card supplier, gas, electricity and house insurance. Why should my telecomms provider be any different?

Re: NTL Not interested in long standing customers
 

Toshni you not wrong, I run a webhosting company and they key is to keep all customer's happy, if I have to give him 1 or 2 free months and make a loss short term then so be it, I know in the long term I profit from it when he tells his friend's he likes his current provider and I get him long term, yes people will abuse get discount and leave but I think in overall in pay's to think of the customer first. NTL recently seem to have picked up the attitude of a monopolistic company recently which is why I questioned telewest and NTL not competing, it is a hassle changing from cable to a normal phone line system and NTL know this, people using cable basically have a choice between NTL and AOL unless they willing to go through that hassle.

Re: NTL Not interested in long standing customers
 

Thank you!

The point I have been trying to make for yonks....:banghead:

Losing customers is madness from a business point of view, but ntl have clearly demonstrated that they don't have a clue in this situation, somehow allowing members of their staff to just let customers walk away with an arrogant "take it or leave it" manner just says to me that those staff care about ntl as much as they do ntl's customers.

ntl still have a long way to go to overcome this problem, & it's one that has plagued them for years (staff on the end of the phone who come across as not giving a hoot about the customer's issue one way or the other)

It has lost (& will continue to lose) ntl customers for years to come.

But clearly, at the rate ntl are signing up new customers, they must feel losing them so easily is acceptable if they don't make keeping existing customers (& keeping them happy) a their number 1 priority.

No customers=no business.

Re: NTL Not interested in long standing customers
 

And, if I remember my School economics lessons properly, it costs more to get new customers than to keep old, and for every disgruntled customer, you may have to recruit more than 1 to replace them (disgruntled customers will tell their friends/family what a crap service they recieved, then those friends and family may not join),

Actually, one thing that is starting to irritate me (this is strictly speaking :notopic: but could apply to the general subject of the thread). Mobile phone companies are busy chasing new pre-pay customers, but totally ignoring the old, contract customers (like me). It would be nice to have a line-rental reduction now that I have probably paid off their subsidising the cost of my P800.

Mind you, when I moved from O2, they really didn't seem interested in my business.

Re: NTL Not interested in long standing customers
 

Just for comparison (and to show this is not just an NTL problem).

I have just called Vodafone, and asked about upgrading my phone, and changing tariff.
I was told I would have to pay to upgrade my phone to a V550, and the best tariff they could offer to fit my needs was £22 a month. :grind:
I went to their web site and found the same phone, with a free bluetooth headset, on the equivalent tarrif for free, and £18 per month. :afire:
When I pointed this out, I was told that the upgrades department don't deal with accessories, and when I probed further I was asked if I wished to speak the their retention people - which I did.

The best they could offer was £50 for the phone, no accessories (we dont deal with accessories) and a discounted £15 per month for the line rental for 6 months. (not including the free weekend calls currently available).

When I pointed out that this would cost me more that the deal they were offering for new customers, I was politely told that this was true, and that this is because I have a spend history with them, and the discounts are based on this. A new customer has no spend history, and is therefore given the highest discount available. :Yikes:
The person I spoke to was polite, but basically summarised my options as "like it or lump it". I chose to lump it, and have ordered a new phone, on a new contract, for free, with the bluetooth headset for free, and the free weekend calls, all from their own website - the only difference is that I will have a new mobile number (their deal was better than O2 or Orange, otherwise I would have moved and kept the number ).

This just shows (and the guy I spoke to at Vodafone agreed) that new customers are treated better than existing ones by a large number (I would say the majority) of the large corporates.

It does seem that this is an attitude of - we get our money out of you in the first 12 months - anything after that is a bonus. :Yikes:

Re: NTL Not interested in long standing customers
 

Not as polite as could have been, but that site is a most irritating one. A site devoted to people trying to avoid paying the same price everyone else does for things, quite pathetic actually.

Having read your comments from there Toshni Seems your plan in posting here was for someone else to offer you a way to get the services cheaper.

I'm really quite astonished that a thread is running devoted to people getting ntl broadband on the cheap, haggling etc.

Just as well I'm not in charge of these things, I'd end up saying (politely) 'This is the price you agreed to pay, this is the price you signed up for, this is the price everyone else pays. Either pay it or go somewhere else'.

Makes you wonder how much profit is actually being made on the services if 'retentions' people have this much discounting power. If retentions can discount everything till it's breakeven or lower I don't really see the point in it being offered. Realistically if with a discount a customer is no longer going to be making money what exactly is the point in having them?

Personally I think discounting until customers aren't profitable anymore is a ridiculous exercise and a poor way for a company to operate (apologies to anyone in retentions but if you're doing this I think you're wrong and wasting your time, if the company wanted to be a charity prices would be stupidly low to begin with).

EDIT: Forgot to put the flame proof suit on.

Re: NTL Not interested in long standing customers
 

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Re: NTL Not interested in long standing customers
 

The fact that I posted from another site asking for a different strategy in no way changes the point. As I have already said, I (and many others here) do not think it is unreasonble in a competive industry to ask for a discount.
If (as has been proved on the other forum) discounts are available for long standing customers, why should'nt different approach strageties be used to try and ellicit them?

The point above about discounts assumes that NTL are just barely covering their overheads which is why they cannot discount. This is a bit naive (I am an Engineering Manager in a manufacturing company and understand all to well the relationship between, cost, selling price, and the price the market is prepared to pay) as they would have gone out of business a long time ago on that premise.

We could all argue till the cows come home, but the bottom line is if you think you pay to much, based on the price of the competition, then ask for a discount (in maybe more than one way) if you can't then leave and get a better deal elsewhere.

Re: NTL Not interested in long standing customers
 

We agree very much on that one :) That's why I've changed ADSL supplier 3 times in less than a year, and none could touch the deal I have now :) Also use Tele2 for calls, phone bills for most basic BT line rental available and less than a fiver a month in calls suit me fine.

I do however have the full Sky package and pay full price, for now!

Re: NTL Not interested in long standing customers
 

Well I agree with you on that, I remember when as a network engineer I would go along to a customers house who was basically complaining about nothing to get a discount/free service period.

I dealt with many genuine cases, but I also dealt witha number that were plain and simply just trying to get something for nothing. CS were eventually stopped from this practice because they were giving far too much away, they gave free service to one guy down in Barry just because he was involved in Oftel.

The one case that I have mentioned before that really made me laugh, was a customer who had been given a free service period that had come to an end. I was asked if I would go and see the customer, he was saying the ntl TV service was giving him epeleptic fits! I could find nothing wrong with it, but the guy was shouting and saying if he watched it for long enough he would get a fit!

The guy was very unhappy with me and I reported back to CS that as far as I was concerned he should not be given any more free service. I was then told by another service technician that ntl CS had given him everything, movies, sports etc free for an indefinate period. I kicked up a fuss and we asked CS if the guy was not getting fits from the service now it was for free.

He claimed it was unwatchable, but he was happy to have it for free :D

CS always over ruled us and believed the customer, they later increased numbers and efforts in retentions. Customers got to know what they could get away with as word got around, free service became very popular such as free analogue until digital was launched. Some customers were given 12 months free analogue full packages because they said they would go to Sky digital!

This will probably be denied by some in ntl, but I know it for a fact!

Re: NTL Not interested in long standing customers
 

My view is that there is no harm WHATSOEVER in asking any supllier of any service for a discount.

What I disagree with is that people throw strops and slag the company off if they get told no.

NTL are perfectly within their rights to say 'sorry, no way', that does NOT make them a poor company, nor would it make any other company a poor company.

Orange recently threw me a hefty discount even though I didn't ask for one and didn't threaten to leave. If they had done this to reward loyalty that would be fine, but that isn't the case, I asked them a couple of questions and they panicked and bribed me. I'd NEVER have left Orange because I am 100% satisfied with their service, so why are they throwing money at me that I never even asked for?

I'm not complaining, but it isn't a professional way to do things.

Re: NTL Not interested in long standing customers
 

I think the concept of'discounting' perhaps confuses the debate. What I want is not the cheapest product but the best value product. The proposition offered by a provider should not be determined by price to the exclusion of other factors such as reliability and service. Whilst there will always be those who will buy on price and chop and change on the marketing whims of competitors (just look at the credit card industry), companies that engender loyalty by delivering superior service will retain custom and enhance their profitability. I suspect some of, but not all, those who are unhappy at NTL's strategies for attracting new custom are upset precisely because the company has failed to deliver the constency of service that would earn their loyalty. That's why they want a 'discount'.

Re: NTL Not interested in long standing customers
 

heres my take on the situaton

I think NTL should offer existing customers who are out of their minimum contract period discounts to get them to stay such as those that new customers get HOWEVER only if the customer agrees to be locked into a 12mnth contract

that way the customer is happy because they are paying less and NTL are better of becuase now they have kept the customer for another year.


I had a simular situation with vodafone where i phoned up to cancell my contract as i was going to use 3pay and i've ended up with a new mobile, more mins and some free texts but i also agreed to be locked in to the contract for another 12months which doesnt bother me any because theve offerd a good service all the time ive been with them. :)

so now they know i will be a customer for another 12months and im happy because im getting a good deal. :D

Re: NTL Not interested in long standing customers
 

Said that pages ago! :D

Makes good business sense to me.


Sums it all up really-are you listening ntl!? :p:

Re: NTL Not interested in long standing customers
 

dragon I agree.

Re: NTL Not interested in long standing customers
 

I also agree...

There is never any harm in trying to get a discount, however, if one is not available, you always have the option of changing supplier/cancelling and re-purchasing.

The most obvious (to me) answer for NTL is to offer the same deal, providing you take on a new 12 month contract.
The fact that they don't do this is annoying, but no different to any other business.

in summary (my opinions ;) ) there is never any harm in trying to get a discount, and if you fail, then there is still no harm done.
If you are unhappy, change supplier (even if it is to the same supplier ;) )

Re: NTL Not interested in long standing customers
 

CS did for me, free phone rental for the next year provided I keep CATV or BB for the next year.

Re: NTL Not interested in long standing customers
 

SMHarman the problem is that isn't the company policy you was just lucky you got someone on the other end of the phone who has common sense. For a start customer turnover has admin costs(for account setup/deletion) and engineer costs (for installs) whilst giving an existing customer discount in return for new 12 month tie in is a lot more efficient and keeps the customer happy. I dont buy the excuse other companies do it so why cant we, why not be different and be good.

Re: NTL Not interested in long standing customers
 

Fair point, the person at the other end of the line would also have seen that in the 4 years I have been a customer I have spent less than £1 on telephone calls from the NTL line, indicating how superflous it is to my needs (I have BT ISDN to home).