Re: smoking and the pub
 

Nope, but then I also see many smokers who would gladly cut thier nose off to spite thier face if it meant they could keep smoking, regardless of its effects on them and those around them.

Pubs are a hive for Drinkers, not smokers, it just so happens that for those with adictive personalities the two habits are hard to sepperate.
Personally I have never complained about a smoker smoking in a pub, with the exception of one person smoking a cigar in the non-smoking resturant part of the pub.
Also in my experience we non-smokers complain about smoking no more than smokers do when stuck on a non-smoking flight, bus, pub, resurant, shop, etc.

I thought that was a smokers job?
And Damn straight your interesting, I find it fascinating watching someone with yellow hands (or at least fingers), a reduced sense of smell & taste and hair that smells moderatly like the aftermath of a forrest fire, poisoning themselves and those in proximity, denying the effects that this habbit is having on them yet they cant see the addiction, wich is an effect in itself.

BTW im getting out of this thread before I get too deep into it, Im not going to get myself worked up like I did in the last anti-smoking thread. And I also noticed that it looks like im picking on Bifta, its nothing personal mate but you summed up the points I wanted to counter the best.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

So that'd be a no then!

So what are you saying? You become addicted to smoking then you're suddenly an alcoholic, because you and I both know that's complete sh*t.

So why are you complaining on here when there's no-one breathing smoke in your face?

I've never heard anyone complain on a bus, in a shop, and only a retarded smoker would complain if they forced themself to go to a non smoking pub. Flights are a different matter, smokers moan then because of nicotine withdrawal on long flights .. as opposed to some non-smokers who just moan because they've nothing better to think about.


I don't (neither does my partner) have yellow hands (or fingers), we've been smoking approx 20 years a peice too, but then I don't smoke roll ups like an old man ...

I can't say it's had any detrimental effect that I've noticed.

Some of us are capable of washing our hair on a daily basis.

A bit like car drivers then.

I enjoy smoking and I know there are possible long term effects

I'm wondering what the point of you posting in this thread was if you're going to post your argument and run, should I add a "lack of balls" to the moaning anti-smoker brigades flaws?

You'll have to try a hell of a lot harder before I feel victimised.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Absolutely, I don't think they should.........Ditto.....

I am not that far up my own a*se that I think that non-smokers have a god given right to have all pubs made smoke free but I do wish that smokers scrupulously observed no smoking areas when they are in them.
I also wish that smokers would acknowledge that their habit actively bars us non-smokers from entering places that we ideally should be able to go into without being affected by someone elses antisocial actions there.
Finally, smokers shouldn't complain about non smokers complaining.....after all, it's not us non-smokers who are actively doing the thing that harms. It's a bit like muggers complaining that their victims are complaining about being mugged.......and using the excuse that the victims shouldn't actually go to the places where the muggers hang out! :disturbd:

Re: smoking and the pub
 

I, and every smoker I know, always respect non-smoking areas, I, however, have had to endure non-smokers bitching at me when they are sitting in the SMOKING area of a restaurant.

That's absolute crap, the owner of the establishment is barring you, not the smokers, as I've said more than once, if you feel you can't go to your local pub, complain to the landlord, not to us.

So, because we smoke, we're not allowed to point out persistant whiners? Meh!

It's absolutely nothing like it whatsoever.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

I think I made my point quite clear.

What are you talking about? I didnt say that all smokers are alcoholics though statisticly a heavy drinker is more likeley to have an adictive personality and someone with an adictive personality is more likley to pick up other adictive habits such as smoking and vice versa.

why are you on here complaining if you smokers never moan and its always us blah, blah, blah, <generic smoker comment> blah, blah, blah non-smokers who complain?

yes but then apparently ignorance is bliss, you probably dont notice because you spend as little time as possible in any of these places trying to get outside to get your next fix.

Well you appear to be immune to all other aspects of smoking so why not the rest I suppose :rolleyes:

If they park thier car in the pub with the engine running then you might have a point, sadly you dont.

I wouldnt worry about it, your immune to all the effects of smoking apparently, carry on regardless you'll be fine. :rolleyes:

Textbook case of a verbal attack on someone questioning an adiction that you have no reasonable explination or argument for doing.
I planned to stay out of this thread for exactly this reason, I dont come on here to get annoyed and ive gone and done exaclty that, I plan to follow the thread until we all get tired of banging our heads on the wall but I wont be posting in it again.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Well, no offense, but if you can't post anything pertaining to this thread that hasn't been moaned about by your ilk already countless times then that's probably for the best.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Last post now, if you dont stop trolling, trying to bait me into a flame war I will report your post, now shut it and get on with the debate rather than personal attacks.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

:rolleyes:

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Please, go ahead and report my post, pick one, any one, obviously you'll derive some sort of satisfaction from it so more power to you!

Re: smoking and the pub
 

I suggest you all calm down, stop with the little digs at each other, and get back to the subject, or this is going to be closed.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

As stated earlier, I don't have any problem with people smoking near me (although I am a non-smoker). Like Ramrod, I do, however, object when people go to a non-smoking area of a pub (or anywhere) and start smoking. That is not on.

BTW, although I don't know any smokers that do this, it does happen.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Thats not on.....you must know a nice bunch of smokers 'cos the ones I bump into are arrogant, thoughtless litterbugs.



The owner is only stopping me if he/she is actually smoking......otherwise it's the smokers smoke thats stopping me going in. Whether it's a smoking or non-smoking establishment is immaterial.....it's the presence or absence of smoke that is the crucial point.



Damn right! You should be grateful that your filthy habit is even tolerated in society! ;) :D



It is too! :PP: :D

Re: smoking and the pub
 

I agree, it probably does happen, but that's not a jibe towards smokers, there are plenty of arrogant people in this world. Like you (and curiously totally unlike Ramrod who for the purposes of his own argument seems to have only ever met smokers that insist on smoking in non smoking areas) I don't know any that do it either.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

The only time I've ever got totally p*ssed of with a smoker was some time ago when there were smoking and non smoking compartments on trains.This particular smoker lit up in a non smoking compartment without even asking and carried on despite being told it was a nonsmokers section(as if he couldn't see the no smoking graphical sign :mad: ) he proceeded to continue to smoke.There were plenty of smokers compartments for him to choose and he could have moved.In the end me and the other occupants were ready to complain to the guard when he left the train.Arrogant G*t!!!

However that's about the only time I can recall ever getting so irate with a smoker(apart from when my other half last decided to try to give up-I was ready to leave home at one point).

Re: smoking and the pub
 

I'd agree whole-heartedly with this. Smokers should not smoke in non-smoking areas. Period. Yes there are a lot of idiots that think they have the god-given right to smoke where they like, when they like. I would say I think that they are in the minority, but a few ignorant chavs can spoil it for the majority.

But I would generally disagree with this. No smoker is stopping (effectively or otherwise) any non-smoker from entering a smoking area. I know many non-smokers who socialise with smokers. They make the choice to enter those places, and I don't know any smoker who doesn't respect non-smokers for making the decision not to enter.

Likewise, I also know many smokers who will go to non-smoking places and not smoke out of respect for the other people they're with.

I think both sides need to find the middle ground - although looking at this it is mostly the smokers who are prepared to compromise (save for Bill C and Incog who seem very level headed about it all).

But if non-smokers wern't complaining, then nor would the smokers!

Everyone need to pass round the pack of extra-tar Zitannes me thinks ;)

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Oh look an even looooonger thread about banning smoking. :D

Re: smoking and the pub
 

One of the problems with "Rights" is that sometimes the act of exercising your rights infringes on someone elses. Therefore rights should not be absolute in a amicable society. We need to tolerate. Most of the times, that is what happens although we have demonstrated above that there are exceptions from both sides.

I don't deny your right to smoke in a pub, I am proffering my opinion that smoking should be banned in public places or at least places indoors. No matter how many "smoking areas" there are, the smoke always travels directly towards my nose and I am fed up of this as I have made a decision NOT to smoke. You smokers are forcing me to smoke, albeit passively. That is an infringement of my rights. You may well say "leave the pub" but that is not considerate or tolerant. As I have said before, my not smoking is not affecting you. Therefore I say that the more harmful of us both is you. Hence you should stop. Alternatively there could be completely separate rooms of which the smoking one should be properly ventilated, but this rarely happens because the landlord relies on the non-smokers tolerance.

As previously stated, my desire for people to stop smoking is because I see the fallible side of people when they have contracted X disease because of smoking. Too many people take their health for granted.

It's very very wrong that innocent people have died due to smokers exhaled 2nd hand smoke, breathed in because they exercised their "right" to go to a pub.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Extremely well put Salu! :tu:Oy, behave! I said that I seem to often come across people who smoke in non-smoking areas....thats a long way from saying that those are the only smokers I see.............or are you trying to 'get a rise' out of me? :dozey: :DNo, no........this one has a twist..it's about smoking in pubs! :DOf course they are not physically stopping them from entering but by their actions they are making the area intolerable to many non-smokers who then have to avoid the area. Not fair really..............

Re: smoking and the pub
 

I don't understand this passion for going to the pub non smoking or smoking ones included.They are noisy,overheated and the price of the drinks are a disgrace.Add to this the fact that the place is jam packed with drunks who may or may not be smoking. ;)

Nah! I'm staying home and having a quiet drink and discussing how to put the world to rights in my living room with you lot. :D

That way I don't have to breath in anyone's smoke and I don't have to listen to music I hate from a tone deaf singer or listen to the kerching of the fruit machines. :D

Bliss.

Coggy. :tu:

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Thought I would chuck this into this long dead thread :D

Re: smoking and the pub
 

good link :)

I've recently given up smoking, and I found this post by Incognitas to be the most parallel to my mood :)

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/sh...&postcount=119

Re: smoking and the pub
 

If you go to the sort of bars that have PC's then you can do both :)

<edit> and the sooner they ban smoking in pubs the better, I stank on Saturday after spending a night in my mums local :(

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Did no-one tell you that you stank before Saturday? ;)

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Reps would follow if it wasn't so obvious! ;)

Re: smoking and the pub
 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4327072.stm

smoking to be banned everywhere now it seems with one reserved area allowed for smokers no food or drink allowed as well as staff...

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Why do all you non-smokers keep following us smokers around anyway? :erm:

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Blimey, a 12 month :bump:

Re: smoking and the pub
 

being in Ireland, it is a far better life in the bars now that smoking has been stopped for quite a while, and the smokers i pal about with don't actually mind going out side, as there are large canopies that still keep them sheltered from rain.
Admittley there was complaints to start with, but nobody seems to care about it any more now - thats how i perceive it.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/4346802.stm
I'll be able to get out and enjoy myself better. but I dont understand why it is being left til 2007 before being implemented

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Nice one. :tu:

Got to give time for people and businesses to adapt to the change I guess.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Could you quote some figures and comments concerning the risk to health of passive and active drinking ? The costs to the health service of treatments in A&E ? Every RTC caused by a sober or drunk driver costs £250,00 0 ! Passive drinking is prevelant in every area, fights in the street, criminal damage to property, kids without enough to eat because the old man, or woman is boozing every night, time wasted in courts punishing offenders for drink related violence and mayhem. Assaults on NHS, police bar staff and law abiding citizens, damage to street furniture.
Then there are the medical costs of alcohol abuse treatment in an already shaky health service. My local hospital is £7 M overspent this year, non-urgent surgery is being cancelled.
As an abstainer I find passive drinking a scourge in society and cannot believe that people who swallow ethanol for "fun" are upset when some one lights up a cigarette. Hypocrites or what ?

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Perhaps when they ban smoking i'll go back into the pub.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Not sure if this has been suggested before but some mental health professionals are a little concerned about the potential increase in cases of depression if smoking is banned in pubs. Alcohol (depressant) + Nicotine (stimulant) = no change. Alcohol on its own = increase in depression. Just a thought anyway.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

IMO, banning smoking in pubs is possibly taking things a bit too far.

Having said that, as a smoker myself i'd probably go in the toilets for a sneaky one of it was cold outside anyway! Be like being at school again, except drunk:D.
I don't really care whether it happens or not, after all, there's not a lot i could do to stop it, i'll just follow the rules as they are enforced!

Re: smoking and the pub
 

You rebel :)

Re: smoking and the pub
 

I am all for a ban on smoking in public places - indoors ones that is. I find it an awful smell, and it is obviously a risk to my health (passive smoking). It might well be enjoyable to have a pint and a fag (and as an ex-smoker who has converted I do know) but that enjoyment can hardly be weighed against the repulsive smells and high risks to those around you (not to mention you yourself although obviously if you want to take that risk its up to you). If people want to smoke they should go outside, and I don't see why that is such a difficult concept to grasp. Non-smoking areas don't work, the smoke still travels. In this day and age we know enough about the risks of smoking to the health for there to be crackdowns on smoking in public places. I hate coming home stinking of smoke and I hate fag ends all over the place. Just this morning I saw a woman sitting outside her house smoking, only to then chuck then butt onto the pavement rather than on her property.


Disgrace.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

We have had no smoking in government buildings for years, but I just heard that New York did the same thing. I am a non smoker but to be honest, I really don't care if people want to smoke in bars. My wife smokes a carton per week, but she does it in the basement. I don't sit in bars long enough to get cancer from second hand smoke, if I did, maybe I should think about my liver more than secondhand smoke.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

I don't go into smoky environments much these days (usually I have two very young children in tow) but on Saturday we visited the Ideal Homes Show at the SECC in Glasgow, where smoking is permitted in the entire mall area outside the exhibition halls themselves (where there are cafes, toilets, shops etc). We were sat for a while having a coffee while Mrs T gave our wee girl her milk and it was dreadful. The woman at the next table was practically chain smoking and at least one person in each party that came and sat at any of the tables nearby was a smoker.

Smoking is a bigger problem here in Scotland than in England and I am so glad that the government here has decided to just get on and slap a ban on all smoking in public. It comes into force next year and I can't wait. I just don't understand why it is that the regime in Whitehall seems unable to take any similarly decisive action for England.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

I think that there should be a total smoking ban inside all public places and no smoking within 5 metres of any building (where I worked they not only smoked outside the smoke would enter the biulding but they smoked outside a building that had highly flamible liquids.)

I have found the a large majority (Not all) think that its there god given right to some anywhere the want and stuff the people around them, I've had people blowing smoke into my direction because they had a non smoker around them and didn't want to upset them.

Smoking is a dirty and discusting habit which killed both my nans (they suffered strokes and took about six months to die)

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Hear Hear. I gave up smoking, and not because I didn't enjoy it, but because I didn't want to damage my health any longer. Millions of people don't smoke because of the same reason. So it's not very fair for those who choose to continue to smoke to poison us with their smoke.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Why don't you start a new thread about car fumes killing you too? And another one about how you're teetotal because of the potentially devasting effects that alcohol can have? :rolleyes:

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Because that isn't what I want to discuss. Nor is it related to this thread. Smoking is something that we all know carries a very high risk to the health. And at the moment we have a choice to reduce that risk. Once an alternative is brought into the market for petrol-run cars, then we'll talk. As for alcohol, I drink very little of that these days, and my drinking it doesn't have a direct impact on someone else's health (unless I drove for example which I wouldn't do.)

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Um, yeah, that's why I suggested starting another thread...

Yes, by voluntarily giving up. Not being bullied by a nanny state. Where's the choice for business owners to decide what their customers do on their own premises?

There are already alternatives, LPG and electric just two of them. So, those who drive petrol cars are poisoning you, and they have the CHOICE not to. Want to talk about that now? In another thread of course.

Good for you. :)

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Unfortunatley LPG isn't that widley available at the moment, (only 1 place where I lives sells it) also unless your car is fairly new you cannot get a grant to convert it, and will need to fork out around £2000

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Yes but they are not widely available are they? And they're not cheap. The people who poison me with cigarettes are actually paying for the privilege of doing so.

Quote:

Originally Posted by orangebird Quote: Originally Posted by clarie Smoking is something that we all know carries a very high risk to the health. And at the moment we have a choice to reduce that risk. Yes, by voluntarily giving up. Not being bullied by a nanny state. Where's the choice for business owners to decide what their customers do on their own premises?

I was referring to passive smoking. I am not suggesting you should be forced into giving up. That, as you say, should be voluntary. But I don't think that prohibiting smokers from poisoning non-smokers with their smoke is 'bullying', it's just sensible.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

There are 1400 petrol stations that supply LPG. I wouldn't call that 'not widely available'.

As for the cost - so it comes down to 'I'll do my bit for the environment and everyone else's health as long as I don't have to fork out for it, or put myself out too much.....' :tu: :rolleyes:

Re: smoking and the pub
 

I think it's a matter of degrees OB. Yes, cars and alcohol (amongst many other things) have a detrimental effect on health and/or the environment, but smoking is the single biggest cause of preventable, premature death in this country, by quite some way. The costs to society and the economy are vast, and I think banning smoking in public is a long overdue, but thoroughly proportionate, response to it.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

It's not always a choice though is it? I can't even afford a car at the moment, let alone an environmentally sound one.

Yet smokers are literally coughing up money every day to poison themselves and others.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

And the tax that is paid in cigarettes more than makes up for the cost.
__________________

I can afford to smoke and run a car. And with all the tax that I pay out for these luxuries, I should bloody well have a choice of what I can or can't do in my own local. :rolleyes:

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Doesn't make up for the cost to my health! Or yours for that matter.
The tax you pay on cigarettes is entirely voluntary and if you don't want to pay it there is a simple solution. The fact that you choose to spend ridiculous amounts of money on cigarettes does not, in my opinion, give you the right to smoke away in front of my nose. As I say this is just my opinion though.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

That statement makes you come across as very selfish and not caring to other people's rights. Are you?

Surely knowing that by selfishly doing something that you enjoy was harming your fellow humans you could find some compassionate motivation to take that vice to another location?

Re: smoking and the pub
 

I would if there was a choice, but an outright ban doesn't make that possible does it? :rolleyes:

90% of the regulars in my local smoke. Sp we're happy where we are. The pub next door is mre than happy to go totally non-smoking. So there's the outlet for the non smokers. But that apparently is not good enough. :rolleyes:

Re: smoking and the pub
 

I am not sure that I agree with this notion that what pubs we drink in should be dictated by whether or not we are willing to passively smoke. A smoker should have the right to continue to smoke if they wish perhaps, but a non-smoker shouldn't be subject to that, and shouldn't have to change their choice of venue to avoid cigarette smoke. It's well known to be a risk, and one that could be easily avoided.


Perhaps there should be a separate smoking room for smokers, in a separate building. And no I don't mean a different pub. I mean an outhouse where smokers can literally go and sit and take their drinks to have their cigarette.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

As much as I'm against smoking (I'm one of the smug gits who has never smoked), I don't see a total ban being worthwhile. Yes it'll mean my daughter and I can go to any family pub without worrying about coming away with that horrible musty smell that you find on most smokers, but what is fair to all (which is what you normally find in a democrasy) would be choice - if you want to slowly kill yourself and stink of an old ashtray then fine, you go and do that. However there should be a lot more incentive for publicans to offer 'non-smoking' nights or even a complete ban in their own premises.
__________________

Interstlingly, a few years ago I was waiting on a bus-stop and a woman next to me was puffing away. I had my discman on, and rather loud it would seem as she felt the need to say to me "I can hear your music".

My reply was "I can smell your smoke".

She muttered something about "cheeky git"....

Re: smoking and the pub
 

:clap: Great post Russ. That's what it should be about - choice.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

But it can't be about choice if one of the choices inhibits the choice of the other party. I agree with Russ in that the way forward should be the fairest to all. That is what democracy is about.
I may want to drive at 75 through the city centre but it is potentially dangerous to others and therefore the greater need is the safety of others and not my "need" to speed. Hence a 30 mile per hour speed limit.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

So there should be a choice of smoking and non smoking pubs. It's not rocket science is it?!
Speeding is an offence. Smoking is not. Not yet anyway.... :erm:

Re: smoking and the pub
 

I'd prefer to think you obey laws out of common sense, not because you have to. On that basis I see Salu's point.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

And I'd like to think that laws were made out of common sense in the first place. My point was that going over 30mph is illegal anyway, and smoking isn't, so it's not a very good comparison.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Salu wasn't talking about the legal aspect - he was referring to the safety of others being more important than his own need.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

It's a very good comparison - there was a time when there were no speed limits, and then somebody decided it would be a good idea to introduce them for the sake of the health and safety of the majority. Now someone has decided to do the same with smoking.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

I think that we need to get back to the nitty gritty here. Smoking kills, and it doesn't just kill the smoker, but those around him/her too. I am all for free choice. But for me, that means for example, having a choice of gay and straight bars. A bar where one plays live rock music and a pub where its quiet, or where there is a darts competition on a Sunday. That is about free choice. However smoking is just not the same thing. It is dangerous - highly risky to our health!

As I said earlier i think there should be a separate room/building for smokers. Then, if the smoker's non-smoking friends want to join them - fine! But the other non-smokers, who like the bar, and who don't want to have to change, can also enjoy themselves without the added risk to their health.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Either way, it's not a good comparison!! You cannot compare a legal activity to an illegal one.
__________________

Yep,a nd they could do that if there were smoking and non smoking pubs too. :rolleyes:

Re: smoking and the pub
 

True......but it is offensive! ;)

Very hard to legislate though and who would decide which it is? Would you not know which it was until you walked in the door? How would restaurants fit into this?

I still think that a total ban is the best and easiest way forward. You don't take a bottle of wine into a cinema or your office, you just wait until you are in your own home or own time.

I wouldn't have a problem with a smoking club though. You would know what to expect and it would be clear of it's purpose. With pubs and restaurants it would need to be a blanket ban to make it clear.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Yes you can if you look at the principle of it which I believe Salu was talking about. For example, speeding is subjective. 80 mph on the motorway is illegal yet in German it's not. Yet smoking kills no matter where it's done.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Yep, and as I have said before, why should I be restricted in what pubs I go to by whether or not I am willing to passively smoke? What if my local is designated a smokers' pub? Or what if your local was made a non-smokers' club?

With my suggestion, neither of us need change our choice of venue, it's just that when you want a fag, you pop off to the smokers' room. If you want to smoke that much I am sure it's not too much of an effort.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Plenty of pubs in my toen have signs outside stating whether smoking is allowed inside, whether there are smoking or nonsmoking policies etc etc. It's not difficult.

I've no issue with banning smoking in restaurants at all, although I still do think that having a smoke filtration/air conditioning system up to a certain standard legal standard, and having smoking/nonsmoking sections is a better is a better way to go. I smoke, but I don't smoke at the table when I go out to eat. Just becaue I smoke, it doesn't mean that I enjoy sitting in a smoky room......

No, I don't take wine to work or to the cinema. Because I'm not addicted to alcohol. But I am addicted to nicotine.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

That's correct Russ and of course you can compare an illegal activity to an illegal one. The activity can be almost exactly the same with the only difference being the law. Eg It's legal and illegal to take drugs depending on which you take. It's the legislation that you can't compare as they are opposite.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Yes it is a good comparison! Driving faster than 30mph is not illegal. Driving 30mph in places where this has been specifically forbidden is illegal. Similarly, smoking is not illegal, but under these proposals, smoking in places where is has been specifically forbidden will be illegal.

In both cases, the law was/will be changed for reasons of health and safety. The comparison is very good indeed.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

If my local is made non smoking, it'll go bust. Another reason why I believe it should be the landlords choice.

I've been to Southern Ireland, and it is a bloody effort. :monkey:

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Agreed. Just like going to the toilet.....(or we could have something on the table similar to an ash tray??? :)

Re: smoking and the pub
 

They said this in Ireland .... however it didn't happen AFAIK.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

No offence, but I really don't care what happened in Ireland overall. I know my local specifically will suffer from a widespread ban. I've drank and worked there for the past 10 years.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Ok well sorry about that, but an effort it should be then. I know what you're saying, and as an ex-smoker I can say one of the reasons I gave up was because my friends used to nag me every time I smoked. But too flippin right! I should have been the one to move - I was the one causing the health risk and making a bad smell! (sssh Russ).

Re: smoking and the pub
 

The I consider myself lucky enough that I have friends who respect my choices and mind their own business :)

Re: smoking and the pub
 

But you can spin that in another direction ... Claire's friends cared enough about her to want her to change her behaviour in a way that would be better for her. :shrug:

Re: smoking and the pub
 

It's not about choices or about minding their own business. It's about passive smoking. My friends had every right to dislike the fact that I was smoking in front of them. It doesn't mean they don't respect my choices. You are not respecting other people by smoking in front of them. In doing so you are making the choice for them.
:tu:

Re: smoking and the pub
 

I count myself lucky that I've got friends who don't smell ;) :p:

Re: smoking and the pub
 

And I'm thirty years old with an informed mind of my own. Eating Mcdonalds can be bad for you too. So can alcohol. I could go on...... :rolleyes:
__________________

I find the smell of garlic on someone repulsive. Should we ban that too?

Re: smoking and the pub
 

So could I ... eating a Big Muck in front of me will harden your arteries with cholesterol, but will leave mine alone. Drinking a glass of wine in front of me will pickle your liver but not mine (except in moderation - a small amount of alcohol is good for you). Smoking in front of me, on the other hand, will ensure that I inhale about 10% of the fumes you do, impacting my health whether I like it or not.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

OB! Are you a vampire?

:PP:

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Indeed, so you go to the pubs that CHOOSE to ban smoking, and I'll go to the pub that CHOOSES not to. Then we're both happy.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Ok shotgun the local!

Re: smoking and the pub
 

:confused:

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Unless we want to go for a drink together. :)

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Thinking back to when I used to smoke, it recently dawned on me just how disrespectful of my friends health I was when I chose to smoke in front of them, obviously this particular fact still escapes some smokers.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Should we ban driving in public places?

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Are you trying to compare the stupidity of smoking to someone's need to travel?

Re: smoking and the pub
 

We should ban any kind of driving that poses a serious risk to health in public places, yes ... oh hang on, we already did, it's called the Road Traffic Act.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

How many harmful substances are emitted into the air that everyone breathes by cars in built up areas. What affect is this having on health? Surely this is a more pertinant issue than smoking in pubs.

My guess is that it's easier to have a go at smokers, than the powerful car lobby.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

And this is being worked on with the congestion charge, cleaner fuels and campaigns to get people to use public transport and bikes etc.

And I'd say the need to keep the country moving is somewhat more important to maintain than the need for someone to light up.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Wow, I was reading some of the earlier parts of the thread, and thinking to myself how selfish bifta's attitude was, nice to see you've changed your ways (y)

Shame theres so many that havn't though. Comparing the danger of cars and the dangers of smoking is one of the worst analogys I have come across. There is no necessity to smoke.

I have always found the mentality of 'if you dont like the smoke, go somewhere else' really annoying.

Smoking is a choice you made, you don't care about your health, but others do, so stop being so selfish and let other people go out and socialise without inhaling lungfuls of smoke.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Agree with you, but highlights the fact to me that cars cause proportionately more damage in terms of health, much of which is unseen and of course most people, smokers or non-smokers, drive. Is smoking in pubs such a serious issue as this when comparisons are made to the net health effect on everybody, that cars cause.
__________________

Many car trips are certainly not nercessary.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

it always amazes me how ex smokers take a much more anti smoking stance than non-smokers...

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Not all of them do ;)

Re: smoking and the pub
 

It appears to me from reading the last few pages of this thread that smokers are willing to make compromises but non-smokers just want everything their way.

How about a pub landlord having the choice of whether he wants his pub to be smoking or non-smoking? If he decides that it is to be a smoking pub then he provides a room or outhouse where the non-smoker can sit to escape the smoke. It is all about rights and in my eyes the owner of the establishment who puts up the money to open and run it should have the ultimate say in what goes on in his establishment. Why should that landlord have to ban smoking in all of his establishment just in case you or other non-smokers want to have a drink there? It is all about choice and smokers should have the ability to choose just as much as non-smokers, but more importantly the owner of the building should have the ultimate choice.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Personally I don't think comparing smoking in pubs with cars is such a bad analogy. Although there could be a debate around the necessity of smoking if we accept that it isn't, and doing so around others is detrimental to their health, then it isn't so different from driving a car for many of the car trips that are made.

Another point. Many of the common household cleaners, beauty products etc. have ingrediants, many of which their effects have not even been tested on humans. Eternity, for instance contains neurotoxins, allergens, irritants and hormone disrupters. Why aren't these facts more widely known when, for example, asthma/eczema rates in children are on the increase. Maybe we should ban wearing perfume in public places. Sounds ridiculous, I know.

The effects of smoking are widely known, and many make that decison in view of these facts. Stopping smoking in public places, especially pubs, is IMO going to do little to stop the effects on those most vulnerable, namely children.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

But its a start - just because the process might be slow is no excuse to do nothing about it at all. Neither is saying, well this is bad too, so anouther bad thing doesn't matter.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

In my case, I find the reason is because I know how easy it is to give up, and that the benefits of giving up are so great.

I think it is also because I am particularly annoyed at myself for having been a smoker and for having damaged others' health with my smoking.

Also once you have given up, the smell of smoke becomes particularly repulsive, and when you think that you have been spending money to put that **** in your body it makes you feel even more sick.

It was a joke....

Imagine if you and I did have the same local pub and both loved it as much as the other. I was saying if we did, then shotgun that pub becoming one of the non-smoking pubs.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

what do people think about the story of nicotene addiction? People say they cant give up because theyre addicted to nicotene. Having never smoked i cant comment. MY question is if people can sleep for eight hours without nicotene then why cant they go eight waking hours without nicotene.

People addicted to other drugs wake up because of their addiction.

So to extend my question, is smoking an addiction or just habitual?