Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

The only thing I can think of, having seen the video, is that it was an American missile. Consider that either (a) the missile is a secret; (b) the American government didn't want to admit to shooting down a plane full of its own people; or (c) both. If two missiles were fired and one missile missed either because of targetting error or because the first missile destroyed the plane close to the Pentigon, that would explain the damage.

The trouble with these conspiracy theories is that we rely on the "evidence" and "facts" given to us - we have no first hand knowledge. It means that whatever interpretation or explanation we come up with is likely to be flawed. I don't think we (the public) ever hear the full story - just what our Governments think we should hear. It's the concept of the "national interest" - someone deciding for us.

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

Hardly a reason for a cover-up, surely they would have just said it was a standard missile
But they said that was an option they were willing to take, if a plane would not divert its course then they would shoot it down.
But where did the plane wreckage go? Would someone not have noticed a plane exploding in the air?

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

I can't believe that this thread is still dragging on :disturbd:

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

well the people demand the truth :D

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

OK, here it is:

An aeroplane was hijacked by a band of fanatics. They flew it at high speed into the very heart of American military power in a devastating, and symbolically very important, display of defiance against US foreign policy in the Middle East. Everybody on board the plane, and a good number of people in the Pentagon, were killed instantly. A great many families were bereaved and still live with the pain, which is made worse by constant allegations that the whole thing was made up and they are in some way complicit in a massive Government cover up.

;)

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

Some people can't tell what the truth is even if it bites them in the a*se. :D

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

Why on earth would the US goverment fire a missile into its own building?

Why on earth would they fly a plane into their own building?

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

The conspiracy theory is that they would probably do so for a valid excuse for war with Iraq etc.

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

No I don't believe that either.

Something hit the Pentagon, I just don't believe the evidence points to a Passenger jet.

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

Sure, it is healthy to question what you're told by the authorities, and I don't want to deny anyone this right, but imo this conspiracy theory is a load of unsubstantiated rubbish, which, as Chris points out, is not going to help the family and friends of the victims (in particular those on flight 77) to get on with their lives.

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

What evidance? SOme pictures and a bunch of nuts who have no understanding of a plane crash but because theres no video footage of the 3rd and 4th planes think they can make some story of it

The only reason they are doing this is bbecause theys no video. It happened the same time as the twin towers, the people on plane 77 died. The goverments around the world have all given evidance of the hijackers being together (especcially German and British)

As for the theory that the american goverment attacked the pentagon/towers to justify a iraqi war that has fatal flaws. I may not like Bush but saying that he killed around 3000 people to justify a war is too far

Think about it, If they where using it as an excuse to attack iraqi dont you think they would have made the hijackers from iraq instead of saudi ariba? The natoinality of the hijackers was hugely embrassing ffor Bush and making them all from iraq would have been much better to justify the war

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

There are several anomalies that are not fully explained.

The hole through the structure.
The lack of scorching or impact marks on the lawn
The undamaged cable reels in path of the alledged flight path.

It did happen on Sept 11 yes.

As I've said before I don't subscribe to that theory

As I've said before I don't subscribe to that theory

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

Isn't that the same animation as in post #1 ? ;)

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

an excellent mini documentary.

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

deleting post now :D
edit...the link in #1 doesn't work for me......

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

It doesn't work for me either. The site linked to in post 1 is having some bandwith trouble so your alternative serves a purpose :D

http://www.freedomunderground.org/vi...l=9&aid=8960#9

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

weird - works fine for me.... :confused:

As to the whole theory...

I saw this not long after 9/11 on a french website, and although interesting, it lacked any substance.
There was no alternate theory offered, nor any motivation for the US Govt blowing up one of their own buildings...

The hole shown is approximately the right size for an engine from a 757.

If, as stated, the plane bounced, then went in, it may well have missed the cable reels, and the momentum would have crried the burning fuel inwards rather than outwards.

The lack of a "bounce mark" on the lawn - hard to say - could have not "bounced" but merely been pulled up sharply as the pilot realised he was too low (pure guesswork, but so is the theory being put forward). Could have bounced where a fire truck parked, after all - they got there before the press did..

also for equality - see http://www.geocities.com/roboplanes/757.html

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

It could even have managed a direct hit at the front wall of the building, no bounces at all.

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

after just looking at most posts, i dont think many people have thought of the fireball after impact!


there is no way a missile of any kind would create that size of fireball, and as for a small military jet - i doubt that too!

with the amount of fuel involved on a jet liner, most of it will vapourise on impact, the rest will create an explosion going forwards!

look at the inner walls damage - how some are leaning inwards - this imo could only be caused by an explosion of some 4000 gallons of fuel!

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

I think all in all, us Conspirancy believers have been beaten.

Good thread though. I enjoyed it.

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

Common sense at last, have you seen the web site stating the French are nice people ;) oh and :welcome::welcome:

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

thankyou and thankyou! lol!:angel:

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

Couldn't sleep last night, so thought I'd watch the Conspiracy show I sky+'ed off Sky One Mix the other night.

Some guy was saying that the pentagon was attacked using a missile and internal explosives, and that the government had remote control of Flight 77 and they flew it into the middle of the ocean.

OK so they have remote control of the flight, why on earth would they bother with missiles and an elaborate cover story when they could have flown the plane into the Pentagon in the first place?

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

C4 are showing a 9/11 conspiracies program tonight at 9 as well.

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

I am watching the cell instead, a good drama invloving fictional story but a good example of the sort of thing anti-terrorists do.

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

So now we are in 2008, over 6 years have passed. Does anyone here still believe there is a conspiracy to 9/11? Ive been reading another forum where someone has started asking the same old questions again that have not only been asked millions of times, but also answered the same amount of times.

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

Nope, no conspiracy. I won't link to it as it's got very bad language but check out what Maddox has to say on the matter. Sums it all up in many ways I feel.

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

it should do,might be us next time round.:erm:

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

Its easy as counting to 10 a passenger jet did not crash into the pentagon.

End of.

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

So what did?

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

I'd love to see some REAL evidence to that effect.

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

Well, that detailed and thoroughly cogent argument convinced me...........;)





beep, beep, wibble...........

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

It was the enterprise. Phasers on kill and all that.

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

no, it was a weather balloon!

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

I suspect people might have realised that there's no way Bush and co. could have organised something as well as , given the evidence of the last five years...

[Did nyone else think 'hang on a minute' on hearing that Rudy Giuliani put New York's emergency control room on the 20 somethingth floor of WTC 7 despite knowing by then (post-1993) that the whole WTC was a terrorist target. Needless to say it wasn't a lot of use. Conspiracy nuts note that the owner of the building was a Republican Party donor. This is probably true of virtually anyone else with a skyscraper in New York, though, but it was still a dumb place for the control room...]

Absolutely. It was *flown* into the Pentagon.

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

In the video of something that hit the pentagon (bear in mind this is one of the most protected building in the world and the best video that had was worst that the average supermarket.

The "Plane" that hit the Pentagon was supost to be a 757 this has a wing span of some 124ft. and on each wing are two Rolls-Royce engines, each weighing about 3 tons.

It hit the Pentagon leaving a near perfect circle, there was no visibale damage from the engines that would have hit the building nor was there any marks that the Horizontal & vertical stabilisers would have caused.

Plus people who where inside the building could smell cordite (a propelant used in explosives.)

Below is a link to a site that may help.

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread79655/pg1

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

I'd prefer some REAL evidence.

Still you carry on believing what you want :tu:

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

CCTV isnt meant to catch things going as fast as 100MPH +, they simply cant capture the image of something going at speed properly.

But there was engines in the wreckage at the pentagon, the same engines that would be on the plane that you say never crashed there.

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

The Image quality was very poor and grainy, thats what I was getting at.

Two engines hitting a wall would leave some kind of mark.

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

I always thought planes were designed so their wings (and engines) would 'fold' back in the event of a head-on crash?

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

Planes aren't designed to crash into anything at 300mph any more than car park CCTV is designed to film high speed impacts. The predicted effect would be pretty much instant disintegration, an explosion and the engines carrying on for a bit. Other similar crashes follow much the same pattern.

Quite. Clear photos of an RB211 damaged by a severe frontal impact, in fact. Muppets think this is the engine out of a drone, because the RB211 is a lot *wider*, man, neglecting to understand the basics of high-bypass ratio turbofans (which I'd expect Hom3r to know, oddly enough. Surely you can apply some sort of test based on your own knowledge of your job to the aeronautical muppetry of these people and conclude that they're barking?).

Like a hole through several walls with a heavily damaged engine at the end? Like the one found in, er, the Pentagon?

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

Who the hell started this one up again?:shocked:

Go on shawty go find 'the landings on the moon were a conspiracy' thread and see if you can resurrect that one...:D

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

Most if not all CCTV is grainy, thats nothing new.

You still never answered the question. If a passanger plane did not hit the pentagon, what did? Also, there are photos of engines at the pentagon that are the same as the plane that was supposed to of crashed into the pentagon.

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

Nearly got drawn in again................


Phew, that was a close one.

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

What a pity we can't meet down the pub...I feel we are kindred spirits..:drunk:

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

who cares??????

its so old.....

another thing that really annoys me, is that diana still gets talked about in that crash, who cares now?????????

nothing can be done about it all now.

Diana is dead dodi is dead...... get over it.

and so is this topic, who cares what hit the pentagon, even if the conspiricy of america done it, I dont care...... it has passed and nothing we can do now will stop it..

put these ones to bed for gods sake

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

You mean in the same bed as Roswell '47 and JFK ;)

Conspiracies will never disappear unfortunately

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

If you dont like it, then dont come in. Some people still like to talk about these things. Its one of if not the biggest event in the history of mankind.

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

see ya

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

No not the biggest event.WW1,WW11,Hiroshima,The Berlin Wall going up and coming down,The Holocaust were all far bigger events.

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

I think you are being a tad dramatic (or ignorant of history) there.

In the last century we had:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ww1
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II

Clocking up a spectacular 100 million deaths combined.

How is 9/11 the biggest event in the history of mankind?

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

It's not as big as those, but it deserves to be included in that list....

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

Whilst it is not the biggest event, it has shaped events later on. Look at Iraq and Afghanistan, would they have happened if 9/11 didn't?

Plus, would our current attitudes towards a certain religion be as it is without what happened then?

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

I said ONE OF IF NOT, basically meaning it depends on personal opinion and the way you look at the situation.

---------- Post added at 00:51 ---------- Previous post was at 00:48 ----------

Again, I said ONE OF IF NOT. 9/11 was something that we have never really seen happen before and on that day, I said this will change our lives forever (as in the way we approach terroism etc) and to this day, I still believe that.

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

9/11 is a historic event, I can't see any way it was the biggest by a long way. It has affected our future and will continue to do so in the way these things work, but then you can take it further and speculate that the events of 9/11 came about after the cold war, which came out of WW2 which came out of WW1

These are all interconnected events that shape and continue to shape our world and 9/11 was another landmark on the way.

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

so... why are you asking as well?

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

If you're going to take part in a thread which suggests a conspiracy has taken place then you will obviously get people who disagree that it was anything other than what it appeared to be.

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2008/02/19.jpg & http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:...07/06/beer.jpg & http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:...BA6020_spr.jpg

This should get interesting..........................:)

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

I think it was conspiracy between Xenu and Elvis, when you think about it (and by which I mean "when you don't really think about it") it makes perfect sense.

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

And another historic event which killed way more people than 9/11:

The Boxing Day Tsunami on Boxing Day 2004, caused approx. 230,000 deaths and many more injuries

Source: Wikipedia

But back on the subject in question - why would you bother flying a plane into the Pentagon? What would be the point?

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

[quote=LSainsbury;34481542

But back on the subject in question - why would you bother flying a plane into the Pentagon? What would be the point?[/quote]

For the same reason you would fly two planes into the World Trade skyscrapers I presume.:rolleyes:

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

Well - yeah - to kill of course but I meant - why would Bush decide to cover it up by.....flying a plane into the Pentagon at the same time...

Suppose that's the million dollar question....

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

Now you're looking for logical reasons for why something happened - big mistake (imho).

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

Yeah true... :)

Must not thinkkkkkk - must be dictated too.....I am a member of Al-Quable-Forummmm :D

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

Personally I think it was Superman that did it.

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

That's the beauty of conspiracy theories.. They stay around. Even if actual evidence that proves the theory wrong is produced, hey, that's part of the conspiracy.

---------- Post added at 15:15 ---------- Previous post was at 15:13 ----------

Well, I think builders did it. After all, one made an awful lot of money from rebuilding the affected area..











j/k.

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

What would be the point in an organisation dedicated to asserting the power of Islam against the US military machine that's camped out in the Holy Places in Saudi Arabia (while arming its sworn enemies the Israelis and Saudi royals) attacking the building that symbolises and controls that machine? Good question.

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

Lets not forget that Osama Bin Laden was rather partial to the house of Saud until they spurned his offer to defend their country from Saddam with a bunch of Saudi criminals which had been sent to Afghanistan to die - er sorry - fight the soviets, in favour of a "proper" army supplied by Bush Snr.
Being somewhat mentally unstable (judging by the anecdote of a certain BBC journalist who Osama got rather upset over when no one would shoot him) Osama took it personally and turned against the Sauds.
Bad Osama, go sit in a cave... oh wait...

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

He turned against Saud when they started allowing US troops on Saudi soil, presumably.

Also often overlooked is that when the US was throwing weapons and money at jihadis in Afghanistan, bin Laden refused (extremely angrily)*. He of course had money of his own, but it's instructive as to his mindset. The guys we did throw money to either ended up as our pet warlords or as Taliban supporters, and occasionally both, at various times. What they aren't, and never will be, are nice, safe puppet democrats. Drug dealers and murderers, more like.

* Unusually for a Middle Eastern terrorist he's a lot more anti-US than anti-Israel, as can be seen by the relatively few al-Qaeda attacks on Israeli targets. The vast majority are either on Western economic interests or the US military, with Muslim nations who rely on Western tourism in there too. The plan appears to be to try and undermine pro-western regimes in Muslim countries and to weaken the US economically, which seems to be working with the amount of cash going up in smoke in Iraq.

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

OK, OK, I know this is an old thread but with the rescent anniversary I've been watch the documentarys aswell as printing out a 440 page document on 9/11, and have several problems with it.

1. The Pentagon is one of the most secure building in the world (even before 9/11) and the only video they have of the "Plane" crashing in to the Pentagon is crap 1 second frame video, surely this building would have better video than a corner shop. Even banks have better video.

2. The "plane" happened to crash into a largely unoccupied section of the building which was being/had been refurbished.

3. The "Planes" engines are approx 6ft across, and weigh about 1 ton, and theres not even a mark from the 1 ton engines which were travelling at around 500mph.


http://911research.wtc7.net/

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

Tired after long day, but

2. 125 people died at the Pentagon
3. Snopes

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

Homer, these documentaries are made to make everything really self-evident and they do this by framing the question in such a way that a responsible person would be forced to draw the conclusion the makers of the documentary did.

As an example, for 9/11, they talk about the passports of the bombers surviving. How is it, they ask, that everything else burns up but the passports of the suspects? Fair enough, seems odd! However they don't mention all the other bits of paper, luggage and material that survived. Suddenly it's not so odd.

They ask why 'no other buildings of this type, after a fire, has fallen like the WTC did'. They neglect to mention that there were are no other buildings with the same central support pillar type of build.

Often you need not to ponder the answer to the question but the question itself and these conspiracies fall apart.

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

what makes me wonder is that out of arround 3500 people who lost their lives in the twin towers, only around 400 had any part of their body found. these parts (according to the investigations and a documentary regarding the investigations) were mainly of odd body parts that had remained after the collapse. parts such as a thumb and splints of bone to name a couple.

yet they apparently managed to find the torso of one of the 'terrorists' and identified 3 of the remaining terrorists via body parts found in the aftermath of the collapse. a whole torso!?!?!? flesh and blood remained intact after flying into a building at +400mph, sitting in a raging inferno for quite some time, then a monumentous collapse which had enough force to completely remove all trace of a touch over 3000 other people. Even more impressive when (and some might say conveniently), neither of the aircrafts black boxes (which are MADE to withstand slamming into the ground at break-neck speeds) managed to survive the atrocity.

makes me think...

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

There were human remains found at the WTC for around 1600 people.

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

Your figures are way out, there's been over 1500+ people identified...

As for torsos versus black boxes I don't see how you could compare two items that have different impact and decelleration characteristics.. It's like dropping a snooker ball and a orange from the top of a building onto concrete, the snooker ball would shatter and be unrecognizable yet the orange would be squished but still be recognizable as an orange

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

I'm only going by what the documentary gave as apparent fact the other night. all the same, chances are.....? 2000 never have a part of them found, yet a terrorists torso, who was on the plane (probably near the front), slams into a building at +400mph, burns for an hour or two, then gets crushed by at least half a skyscrapper, then has his entire (or majority of) torso found in the debrit? really? i mean, really? do you not question this?

but like I said, a black box is designed to survive the very event of a crash...

is there really not a part of you that finds the official facts the littlest bit strange sometimes?

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

Nope, mainly as there's a lot about what happened that day which we'll never know...

Every question which yourself and others have asked fall into the catagory of "We don't know as we don't have enough information" and as such all theories are simply unproven..

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

oh totally agree, don't get me wrong... we don't know the full facts and never will. and I'm not saying there is a conspiracy, before the tin-hat brigade wade in here!!!! this is merely my personal view from what I have been presented with as being fact by alleged official investigators. and to be clear, my view is that it [the aforementioned] seems unlikely to me.

the chances of 4 terrorists being positively identified considering they were on the planes when ~2000 others never had a nail or nose from them found still strikes me as tipping the scales in favour of 'Yeah, right'!

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

What year was the documentary produced???

Nope, it's designed to survive a certain impact, it's not rare for black boxes to be totally destroyed

Take for example the Athens crash in Aug 2005 which has been proven that people survived the crash but not the following fire.. Yet one of the black boxed was destroyed

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

oh, and btw, i presented the following stance before regarding the 9/11 stuff and paid heavily for it! apparently, I'm not allowed to be on the fence nor reserve judgement until I see undesputed evidence either way!!! you have been warned!!! :)



---------- Post added at 23:43 ---------- Previous post was at 23:41 ----------

absolutely no idea. I only heard about 10 minutes of it whilst I was sorting out one of my laptops in the livingroom.



perhaps they should re-think the design!

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

Actually 60% of the people from the WTC site have been identified from remains... If you consider that there was 19 Hijackers so at least 9 in the WTC attacks 4 hijackers identified is actually below the rate of the other bodies..

Again facts win out over conspiracy

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

Maybe if there were the only people identifed from the fights, but there was around 35 other people identified from the planes.

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

that's a good point - i didn't know that. i can only assume then it was an old programme which gave a very wrong impression - either that or I missed the other bits! saying that though, I do know they stated 4 terrorists and ~400 bodies found, not anywhere near 1600 that is now the figure.

there you - something new every day!

---------- Post added at 23:55 ---------- Previous post was at 23:53 ----------

again - i didn't know that.

like i said - I'm no conspiracist, nor do I blindy believe everything the media/governments tell us, so a wider range of information is always welcome as it aids one to make up their own mind.