Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

Again, a nice try at deflection. Your 3rd and last chance before you prove yourself to have no integrity whatsoever.

**
It is irrelevant who produced the graph, now back to these 2 troubling (for you) items

1. The forecasts are your beloved climate scientists guesses
2. The actuals are what mother nature is doing

I notice no attempt whatever by you to state that either of these two things aren't true.
**

So it's now put up or shut the f up.

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

Ok Mr Oh Really,

Your 'questions'are silly but here goes.

1. Forecasts , are based on science, not guesses.
2. Mother Nature.There have been changes in the climate in the past, but nothing at the rate of what is happening over the last 150 years which coincides with man's industrial activity. Sun spots etc can't explain the rate of increase over that timescale. You can't just use a few years when looking at climate change. As can be seen from all these graphs temperatures do go up and down from year to year but the trend is upwards.

As for 'shutting the f up', yes I could do that but it's not a great debating argument. It isn't going to stop the climate warming which will make life on this planet increasingly difficult .

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

My language was inappropriate Mr K. I apologise.

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

No worries bud.

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-38652746
2016 beat the record set way back in 2015....

This should be at the top of President Trumps agenda :rolleyes: , biggest threat facing all of us.

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

404 - Page not found

maybe its the weather;)

ah working now

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

Tell the people in Spain and Majorca:

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

A single event is not necessarily linked to climate change and climate change doesn't necessarily mean a specific climate will get warmer.

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

You're confusing weather with climate - they're related, but not the same...

Weather is what conditions of the atmosphere are over a short period of time, and climate is how the atmosphere "behaves" over relatively long periods of time.

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

I do know the difference.

---------- Post added at 15:51 ---------- Previous post was at 15:17 ----------

Well what do you know it's happened again:



:D

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

i have taken advantage of this global warming to clean the stove out [the big lump of iron that pumps heat into my home] because its so warm these days its only on every day ;)

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

Hope you are well above sea level Papa...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...evel-rise.html

The east coast came close to disaster last week. As usual we don't take any notice till these things happen or personally affect us.

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

just below actually -that disaster was over hyped the high tide passed without incident . i remember it flooding in the seventies but the sea defenses were increased .

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

Jaywick? That would've caused literally tens of pounds worth of damage if it'd have hit there

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

Exposed: How world leaders were duped into investing billions over manipulated global warming data
The Mail on Sunday can reveal a landmark paper exaggerated global warming
It was rushed through and timed to influence the Paris agreement on climate change
America’s National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration broke its own rules
The report claimed the pause in global warming never existed, but it was based on misleading, ‘unverified’ data


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...#ixzz4XnZ52tZy
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

The thing that the Daily Fail and their 'whistleblower' have overlooked/ignored is that the NOAA figures were independently verified.
https://www.pri.org/stories/2017-02-...getting-warmer

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

typical climate change denier - denial
how long can you deny that that climate change denial is the truth ,its alright you denying the denial buy you will learn that denying the denial is just denying the truth .;)

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

Remember the old motto about newspapers and that is only believe 10% of what you read as the other 90% you read is utter ********.;)

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

typical climate change denier - denial
how long can you deny that that climate change denial is the truth ,its alright you denying the denial buy you will learn that denying the denial is just denying the truth .;)and if the science fails you blame the newspaper.;)

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

l never said l was a climate change denier as l was just pointing out to you is that never believe most of the stories you read in newspapers.;)

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

i don't think i said you were;)

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/sh...&postcount=120

l am whatever you say l am as you have so succinctly put.;)

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

i deny that :)

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

whilst I believe temperatures are definitely on a upward projectile, I dont think its anything to do with things like pollution but more just part of the natural cycle, as the earth in its history has had many climate changes and multiple ice ages.

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

Indeed, millions of years ago the Earth was much warmer than it is now.

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2017/02/27.png

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

Was that when all the volcanos were erupting? If so I'd imagine it'd get much warmer with all that lava floating about, not to mention all the CO2 in the atmosphere

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

It's a pity we don't have the measuring equipment that we do now, further back in time, so records would be based on like for like recording.

Just think back in the middle ages when we had a mini ice age for a couple of hundred years, we could have said 'Oh noes Man farked it up, we've not warmed up the planet enough'

Look through the geological history of the Earth, there's been times when we've been locked in ice, there's been times when the planets been a tropical jungle, what we've managed to record in the last few years wouldn't even constitute a coffee break in the life of the planet. Look instead to greedy politicians, scaremongers and the like.

---------- Post added at 09:32 ---------- Previous post was at 09:20 ----------

Looking further into it,its not as simple as that, you also need to factor in plate tectonics, opening and closing parts of the world to ocean currents (this is huge btw) as far as climate change can go, also consider that over time the sun is gradually increasing in intensity & radiation (getting brighter & hotter)

As you can see, there's many many other factors to consider beyond what any single species can achieve since the Industrial age.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geolog...erature_record

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

The Mails 'whistleblower' is now having second thoughts.
http://www.independent.co.uk/environ...-a7569281.html

The Fail strikes again, don't think I'll be cancelling my New Scientist subscription.

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

[QUOTE=Mr K;35884687]The Mails 'whistleblower' is now having second thoughts.


http://www.independent.co.uk/environ...-a7569281.html

the independent :rofl: fake news

on another note i have the stove fully cranked up thanks to the heatwave

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

Wikipedia bans Daily Mail as 'unreliable' source
The editors described the arguments for a ban as “centred on the Daily Mail’s reputation for poor fact checking, sensationalism and flat-out fabrication”.
https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...ce-for-website

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

The "Beast from the East" is on its way. Winter is coming. ;)

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

Yes l can concur with one thing old bean as my brothers were in Copenhagen for 4 days and have just come back and one of their comment's to us was that it was bitterly cold over there..:Yikes::eeek:

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

Would anyone here class Wikipedia as a credible source? University's have banned it as a source.

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

Wikipedia is trying to clean itself up. But you knew that already...

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

stove on again -app on phone says snow :shrug:

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

Never fear obo is on the case


Obama ‘travels with gas-guzzling 14 car escort to give £2.5million climate change talk’


The former President’s armoured Chevrolet Suburban has an approximate mileage of just 16 miles per gallon



wow that's 5 mpg more than my car :shocked:



http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/...-escort-speech

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

Did 2 Jags wangle an invite? He rather liked jetting around the globe burning fossil fuels and partaking of luxury banquets in the name of the environment...

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

But wait - panic over!


https://wattsupwiththat.com/2016/09/...-in-september/

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

Since someone wants to discuss this I thought I'd bump this thread on the subject. :)

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

Piece by James Delingpole

So the cat's out of the bag. More "experts" that turn out to be nothing of the kind. :rolleyes:

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

No. That's just how science and experts work. They continue to revise, adjust and research their findings as evidence dictates. What's makes them experts is both that practise and their ability to do the hard science behind their reports. It makes them far more trustworthy that the likes of Delingpole who has no scientific background of any kind but thinks he can pontificate about global warming.

What's happened here (and you can read a report here) is that they've revisied their model. They've not found global warming to be false or found it's not caused by man, but they previous models might have overestimated how much carbon will cause further rises.

However this is one study and more research is required.

They have not found global warming to be myth. They have not found previous results were 'fabricated'. They certainly haven't confessed! It's just further research. Because that's how science works. You don't have one study and that's it forever more. :rolleyes:

This happens all the time. From cancer, to global warming, to biology, to astrophysics. It's a constantly evolving field where people publish research constantly. Even the theory of relativity has had things revised. I don't see Delingpole claiming Einstein lied (although it wouldn't surprise me).

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

You might want to read this statement from the people who wrote the paper Delingpole is referring to. I'll even save you a click.

Delingpole put himself forward as a parliamentary candidate in 2012 on an anti-wind farm ticket before withdrawing. He has been attacking anthropomorphic climate change since at least 2009. The article you link is a comment piece and the bias is abundantly clear.

Delingpole is misrepresenting the science to fit his own agenda. He's a conservative libertarian so objects to any government intervention. I very much enjoyed his attacking the renewables industry while he hasn't a word to say about the far larger fossil fuels industry, or that fossil fuels receive subsidies worldwide of more than 3 times the annual value he claims the renewables industry has. The renewables industry is apparently making a small cabal super rich while, of course, nothing like that happens in the fossil fuels industry.

He hasn't a clue what he's talking about and makes a series of absurd statements. The man should probably stick to using his English Literature and Language degree and writing rather than trying to second-guess climate scientists. It's odd when people are happy to believe a man like this, apparently unconditionally, without doing any kind of reading into the matter or bias on his part, but I guess confirmation bias is powerful.

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

The fact he thinks he thinks making revisions to their theory is a weakness of science (or lie as he calls it) rather than it's strength is a very telling indicator of how he thinks IMO. If he took the approach to other theories as does to global warming then I am guessing he doesn't believe in relativity, gravity, evolution or that the earth revolves around the Sun.

The fact he was clearly to dim to understand the report (or just a charlatan) makes me glad we do have experts rather than opinion writers for whom ignorance of a subject is no barrier to getting to write about it in a national newspaper.

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

I am quite happy for professionals and politicians to admit when they are wrong and I would expect them to do so.

But I would have expected a certain amount of scoffing from those who demand more proof of so called 'climate change' when the scientists have to admit an over-estimation of the impact of increased levels of carbon in the atmosphere.

What I want to see is a reasoned debate, and more evidence, which we are not getting. Yes, if you accept that global temperatures are rising, it is a reasonable deduction in the circumstances to look at carbon as being the cause.

Unfortunately, it is not at all clear that temperatures are rising. Sure, there are indicators that might suggest that they are, but there could also be other explanations. For example, changing ocean currents can bring increased or decreased water temperatures, which might explain why ice is melting in the Arctic. This may be a regular occurrence over time for all we know, in fact the Arctic has been free of ice before, and Greenland has experienced this not long ago historically.

My position is to keep an open mind, but I do have a sense of disbelief. I would be a lot happier if we were given satellite temperature readings over the whole globe to show us what was happening, which would be far more representative of the situation. For some strange reasons, the climatologists prefer to use less reliable and less comprehensive and manipulated readings from weather stations which are not evenly spread across the world and that leave huge gaps in sparsely populated areas.

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

We have readings from satellites available showing temperature changes consisting with increased greenhouse gas concentrations.

We also have data for historical temperatures going back hundreds of millions of years.

There appears to be tons of evidence. I would assume those with the PhD's, etc, in climate science would be using appropriate measurements.

Predictions, obviously are a somewhat different matter, but empirical measurements are there by the bucket load.

It's far from uncommon for predictions and measurements to be refined. Indeed it's the point. I would have been far more perturbed if the paper hadn't been released, or science as a whole rebuffed it, rather than reviewing it and modifying models accordingly.

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

But this presents as if the scientists made a declaration and then sat back for years until they're forced to admit they were wrong.

In reality they had a current working model, continued to look into it, and now are changing that model. This model wasn't changed by humanities graduates writing scolding opinion pieces but by further work by climate scientists. Itself that should be a rebuke to those who think it's some sort of conspiracy.

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

To me it seems obvious that as more data is received and integrated the model has to change.

The only way a model can be set in stone is if the new data is ignored, the model would quickly become outdated and a new model would have to be produced.

Either way new data has to be considered.

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

If you read my whole post, I was agreeing that people needed to re-evaluate when presented with updated evidence - indeed, the standard cry of "u-turn" every time a politician re-evaluates a situation in the light of argument really infuriates me.

---------- Post added at 13:46 ---------- Previous post was at 13:42 ----------

Have you seen the unmanipulated satellite readings, then?

It seems that the only time this damning climate change evidence gets presented, it is on the basis of manipulated data.

I'd really like to know what the unfiddled data shows!

https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.word...-surface-data/

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

Just been listening to a programme on Radio 4. Apparently, since you wrote this it's been said by experts on the subject that we now only have 13 years left to reduce global warming or the effects will be irreversible :shocked:

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

It does kind of put piffling issues like Brexit into perspective.

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

I wonder what they'll say in 13yrs time?

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

Oh shit?

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

I can remember when they were griping about Acid rain. They said that in 10 years time, the forest areas in New York State would halve. They spent 10 years producing a report that found that not only it didn't happen, but that most acid rain came from natural sources.

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

The problem is not really the scientists per se but rather the media who pick up a snippet and blow it all out of proportion.

Let's face it in the past just look at all the bad things for health alone that have been subsequently debunked, the biggest being the MMR vacine.

The media has a lot to answer for.

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

It is mostly the media that take one study, even a dodgy one, and treat it as gospel. So one study from one place says item 'x' is bad and everyone loses their mind. Some things like red and processed meats, do eventually get enough evidence to show they're bad but that's why something like the NHS or the World Health Organisation are better sources for that info.

Global warming though doesn't really have any serious scientific detractors.

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

Windy lately, isn't it ? And the snow thread has been quiet ....
https://www.cableforum.uk/images/local/2019/03/13.jpg

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

When the weather is excessively hot or cold, it is because the heat or coldness has come from somewhere else. That "somewhere else" will be cooler or warmer as a result. It is just moving around. Eg When there is a heatwave originating from the Sahara, what is the temperature in the Sahara as a result?


I can remember in the early 80s, there was a lot of talk about another ice age coming.


Evidence has been found that in the relatively recent past, they were growing grape vines to make wine in Norway. Nowadays with selective breeding of vines, we can grow grape vines in Southern England, but not much further north. Things must have cooled down since that time in Norway.

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

Climate, not weather...

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

And in the past, the climate in Norway was conducive to growing grape vines. It takes 7 years to get them to the point of producing grapes. In the past Greenland had a climate where there was little snow or ice, hence the "Green" in Greenland.


The snow and ice in the Arctic and Anarctic has created from water sucked out of the atmosphere. Could that carry on indefinitely without any effect?

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

Sort of I guess. Heat is slowly moving around the world but I don't think the temperatures 'drop' so much as they just don't increase but the atmosphere is constantly moving heat out of the Sahara and around.

But temperatures globally are increasing and one of the problem with climate change is the mechanisms which allow these transfers of heat and cold can break down.

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

Show me an era where and when the climate hasn’t changed.

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

Most climate change in history took a very long time, geological ages and millions of years, not big increases within the lifespan of a single human being. The few times there were sudden changes due to some sort of geological event, i.e loads of volcanos going off, it saw lots of life of earth dying. This time there is no geological event other than human activity.

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

Since the dawn of civilisation we have had climate change from warm to the ice age and so on and so on.

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

Yes, but it took tens of thousands of years, not hundreds...

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

Greenlands ice sheet is about half a million years old so when exactly was it a green land, certainly not when Erik the red was trying to establish a settlement there

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

Remember the earth is 4.5 billions of years old. Our recorded history is about 6,500 years old. Modern humans, i.e us, 200,000 years. Our history, mindset and lifespan has no concept of a geological ages which last a long, long time. The warming since the industrial revolution might seem slow measured by human life but is literally nothing, not even a minor blip, in the timescales off the earth. So this is a very sudden, very abrupt, change.

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

Yes, nothing natural about this climate change. The rate of warming, is far far faster than anything that has happened before. The danger is by the we all time we all realise and agree somthing drastic needs doing, it might be out of control whatever we do. That point might have passed already, but doesn't mean we shouldn't try or ignore the issue, and concentrate on insignificant things like making the rich richer, border walls and Brexit.

If it was me I'd make all public transport free and double tax on private transport. Also not trade with any country ignoring the issue. Lots won't agree, but it requires drastic measures. If only we were part of some Union that acts together we'd have a lot more impact...

Wake up folks, this is the no1 issue facing us all, but you wouldn't know it.

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

We need to solve the biggest problem the planet faces. Population.

There’s simply too many people to support (at a worldwide level). Every human being contributes to the problem to a greater or lesser degree.

Believing the planet can tolerate 7, 8, 9 or 10 billion people is part of the problem. Cutting emissions by percentages here and there aren’t going to provide a long term solution.

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

We are it's called the Uk, if i were you i'd ditch the allotment and invest in a fish farm;)

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

Logan's Run anyone?:;)

China tried to limit numbers of births but seem to have abandoned that somewhat recently. I can't see just how population can easily be controlled without getting draconian about birth control.

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

If the situation is as critical as is being made out (and on balance I’m inclined to think it is) then draconian measures will be necessary. We are skimming round the edges without drastically reducing the sum of human consumption of almost all of the resources available on the planet.

There’s two ways of doing that and convincing everyone to consume a bit less isn’t the answer.

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

Yes, March winds, April showers bring forth May flowers. Or so I recall my Mum telling me.

And did you notice how far back those temperature records in your post went? The graph clearly shows how temperatures have been steadily rising for at least two centuries as they were before that (remember the 'little ice age' in the 17th century?).

The mantra of the scientists should always be questioned, and only when they come up with conclusive prove should we believe what they say.

For example, in the 1960s they were telling us we were moving into another ice age. But look at that graph. Where is the proof there? The temperatures were moving in the opposite direction!

Now it's global warming. Well, as long as we can rely on those reported temperatures (and after the 'hockey stick graph' fiasco, I wouldn't put any manipulation of the figures past them), it does appear that temperatures are on the up. But there are other reasons than carbon emissions that could explain that.

A couple of examples.

1. If we were plunged into a mini-ice age a few centuries ago, how do we know that the climate is not simply still recovering from that? The current bunch of scientists would probably have blamed mankind for that as well, although looking at it, that seems an unlikely argument.

2. There was a tremendous amount of pollution in the atmosphere from industry during the 19th and early 20th centuries. Even in recent times (the 1960s) I still remember those awful sooty smogs we used to get. What if its the cleaner air that is letting in more sunlight and producing this warming trend?

You should also be sceptical of scientist claims that another few degrees increase and it will be 'irreversible'. How can that be, when temperatures have been quite a lot higher in the past?

I do think that logging may have affected climate, almost certainly in fact, but I still don't buy the idea that increasing carbon emissions are the cause of any warming that may be taking place. Where is the evidence for that when the atmosphere only absorbs a small amount of carbon? The amount of carbon in the atmosphere the last time I looked stood at 0.04% of the atmosphere. Yes, 0.04%. Think about what a small proportion of the atmosphere that is. Most of the carbon is absorbed by vegetation and the oceans.

So I don't think we should be unquestioningly following the advice of the scientists. We should listen, but then give it the reality treatment.

Having said all that, I agree that we should do our best to clean up the air rather than continue to pollute it. I have believed that since childhood.

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

On this point there was a jump in temperature in North America on September 12th, 2001 that could be attributed to the empty skies.

https://globalnews.ca/news/2934513/e...ge-experiment/

The opposite argument would be it evidencing that it’s already too late, and any action we take will still accelerate warming.

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

And what is conclusive proof of global warming to you?

Obviously scientists should be questioned but that is done so with further science. The people questioning the 'scientists' are people with hardly any knowledge of the underlying science, more often than not it's people with art degrees pontificating in a magazines like the Spectator as if we're meant to take them as seriously as the people who have knowledge of geology and climate patterns.

It just ignorance to dismiss experts in a field so casually.

It's the same thing. Global cooling, which is not ruled out by the way, can be a result of global warming. There are climate mechanisms at play which can be disrupted by increasing temperatures causing some areas to actually become colder as well as the weather becoming more unpredictable. Part of the reason 'climate change' was used instead of global warming is because it's a more accurate observable observation of the impact of global warming.

Now it's global warming. Well, as long as we can rely on those reported temperatures (and after the 'hockey stick graph' fiasco, I wouldn't put any manipulation of the figures past them), it does appear that temperatures are on the up. But there are other reasons than carbon emissions that could explain that.

Maybe not but I don't see who else is qualified to be giving 'advice' on these matters.

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

To have a valid "reality treatment", it would need to be checked by someone who knew what they were talking about - you know, like a scientist*...

When you ask for a second opinion when you’ve been to the doctor’s, it’s not usually from an electrician.

When I get two quotes for decorating my house, the second one isn’t from a dog walker.

*it’s called "peer review", and it’s what currently happens.

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

Stove is full of coal and going like the clappers ,what does science say about that?

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

You have no grasp of what we’re talking about?

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

Or the weather and temp are normal for march.

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

Bless...

It’s not Rocket Science.

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

Thanos had the answer.

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

Except you are disregarding two things. Firstly, scientists often disagree amongst themselves. Secondly, it was Pat Michaels who criticised the hockey stick graph. He was a climatologist, not a pleb.

You really shouldn't be so gullible as to believe everything scientists come up with. They have been wrong so many times before.

---------- Post added at 07:28 ---------- Previous post was at 07:27 ----------

So it's you that's responsible! :D

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

You seem to apply the same degree of personal certainty to climate change as you do to Brexit. I just "know" I am right .. so obviously I must be.

You cite a certain Pat Michaels. Let's take a look a this individual:



Some quotes from Mr Michaels:

Science is based on consensus and not the opinion of individual rogue nut jobs.

If we get Brexit wrong, we can reverse it. If we get Climate Change wrong, we're dead.

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

Scientists do agree amongst themselves because they're not a monolithic bloc, that is a strength and not a weakness in the scientific method. However there is near universal agreement amongst scientists that global warming is occurring and is man made.

As for not being so gullible to believe 'everything scientists come up with' as opposed to what exactly? What people reckon based on no scientific method or evidence at all? This is how we get anti-vaccination groups and flat earthers. People entirely ignorant on a subject forming communities around their idiocy.

The Theory of Relativity, Penicillin, Electricity, Antibiotics and splitting the atom. These discoveries came from scientists and not from the ever-constant group of people who sneered at them. When scientists have been wrong further science has disproved them since that's the entire point, to learn new things, so you rarely go wrong by following the scientific consensus.

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

Car does 10 mpg/ boat 8 mpg /and house has coal fired stove so yes it's all on me ,but i pay lots of tax which offsets the damage;)

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

I didn't say 'I know I'm right'! Thisis typical of how you respond to people who disagree with yo

My position on global warming is that I have an open mind, but I'm not yet convinced that:

1. The temperature records showing an upward trend have not been manipulated rather than 'adjusted' for appropriate reasons.

2. Any rise in temperature is caused by carbon emissions. I have already told you why I think that.

It would be better if you actually addressed the points that I'm making, rather than having a go. This is a discussion forum.

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

There was a nice article in New Scientist about the uncertainties of climate change here - https://www.newscientist.com/article...e-really-know/

Unfortunately only available on subscription but here's the opening;

I do subscribe so I can paraphrase the questions;

How much has the planet warmed already?

The Paris accord has set a limit of no more than a 1.5°C rise but how much have temperatures risen already? This should be easy but it isn't. Global records started about 1850 but there are some uncertainties. For example, land temperatures tend to be measured at 2m above ground while sea temperatures are measured at sea level. Also, we cannot measure the temperature of the arctic as the annual sea ice comes and goes.

The Met Office records and models leave the arctic out while NASAs estimate this. Also NASAs models estimate a pre-1850 rise of 0.2°C. Rolling this up, the Met Office says the planet has warmed by 0.9°C since 1850 while NASA says the planet has warmed by 1.2°C. It doesn't sound like much but is a big fraction when trying t limit warming by 1.5°C

What is a safe limit for warming?

No one really knows. There are suggested tipping points such as interruption of the north atlantic current but nobody knows for sure when anf if these events might happen.

We can also mitigate some of the effects of climate change by changing building codes and not building by the sea or in low lying areas.

When are we set to pass the 1.5°C limit?

Current trends suggest we will cross the line in the 2020s but we may cross the line and drop a little with an El Nino event. Long term constant above 1.5°C is estimated to be the 2040s.

There may be tipping point events that could rapidly change the rate of climate change such as the release of methane from permafrost melts or die back of the Amazon. Carbon capture technologies may reduce the ate of change.

How much warming does CO2 cause?

This is the toughest question when you try and model an entire planet. A small increase in temperature due to CO2 will increase water vapour in the atmosphere which is itself a greenhouse gas. If ice sheets melt, the reflective ice is replaced by dark ground which itself be warmed directly by the sun.

However, burning fossil fuels can release climate cooling compounds like sulphur dioxide. The oceans may absorb more CO2 than we thought too.

There are so many variables that the annual estimate of CO2 emissions limits needed to keep at or below the 1.5°C varies from 258 to 570 gigatonnes

How high will the seas rise?

During the last intergacial period where temperatures were on average 1°C higher than in 1850, the sea level rose 6-9 metres. However, there is a question on how long this will take if it happened again due to uncertainty in how long it would take for the ice in Greenland and the west Antarctic to melt. Estimates vary between 0.3 and 3 metres by 2100.

In summary - modelling the climate of an entire planet is hard!

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

Climate is now less a scientific hypothesis and more a belief system.

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

Well no, it remains the scientific consensus.

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

The nice thing about a hypothesis that that you can go out and test that hypothesis by gathering data. That data will then prove or disprove your hypothesis. Interpretation of the data leads to further hypotheses

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

If only we had some people with no bias to argue against these scientists - you know, like the oil companies...

Oh wait, even they are now supporting the consensus.

https://oilandgasclimateinitiative.com/

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

Even these large conglomerates are realising climate change is a threat to their profits. Too little, too late.

I've got a good idea, why not drill for shale gas and release some more greenhouse gases...

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

It's the latest badge to wear as a fashion accessory for the flakes.

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

All that hate is going to give you stomach ulcers old chap ;)

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

Not me, i have a well balanced diet [with meat in it] i don't hate it i just don't believe it.

I don't fit the criteria
1 must hate Trump
2 must hate brexit
3 must be vegetarian
4 must use public transport
5 must hate everything that's not solar or wind powered

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

If you are not convinced then you must have assessed the evidence and judged it unreliable. So you should be able to present the scientific evidence and objective argument to support why there is *not* a pending climate change catastrophe i.e. why you are not accepting the overwhelming consensus. Citing a single clearly biased scientist does not cut it I am afraid.

You use phrases like:

These do not give an impression that you are "open minded" in this respect.

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

I guess the questions for those who don't believe in anthropogenic climate change are;

• Is the climate changing?
• Does CO2 cause a 'greenhouse effect' in a closed system?
• Is the amount of CO2 rising?
• Is there a link between rising CO2 and rising global temperatures?
• If no, what is causing the climate to change?
• Is the rise in CO2 due to human factors?
• If no, why is the level of atmospheric CO2 rising?

Due to the scientific method, you cannot say to 100% certainty that there is a specific cause to a certain effect. However, you can start to put percentage likelihoods that something will happen. Climate science is continuously trying to firm up those percentages but, as I said before, trying to model an entire planet is hard!

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

By 'open minded' I meant that I don't accept everything at face value. And what I said was that there is not a proven link between carbon emissions and warming because the atmosphere absorbs so little carbon.

Incidentally, the reason scientists are not trying to have an open debate about this is because they are shouted down and threatened.

Anyway, it is clear you are just sucking it all in so you won't want to consider anything which is contrary to the establishment view, so 'nuff said.

---------- Post added at 14:22 ---------- Previous post was at 14:21 ----------

But the question you have omitted relates to the amount of carbon emissions the atmosphere absorbs.

I am more concerned with the impact of that on our oceans, which is where most of it goes.

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

Conspiracy nonsense right down to the 'establishment' stuff. Same thing people spout when challenged on vaccines and 9/11 being an inside job. It would all be proven to be false if it wasn't for the establishment keeping them down man.

Re: Climate Change - record World temp. rises in Feb.
 

I meant that climate change activism resembles a belief system. Any that deny it are accused of heresy. You're a non-believer, an outcast, the peddler of evil words against the Righteous. If was centuries ago you'd be burnt at the stake.

I read about the cross-over a while back and have sought out the paper I read. Worth a read. Interesting reveal into the human creature if nothing else.

http://oro.open.ac.uk/46740/1/94_98_Bhagwat_3.pdf