Cable Forum - Brexit (Old)

Labour, the DUP, Boris and the ERG have all come out quickly to condemn a deal they haven’t seen. I want to know what their idea for the border and for trade is.

I am with you on that one, Damien.

---------- Post added at 18:30 ---------- Previous post was at 18:28 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35970494)

That the deal text says there must be a Hard border down the Irish sea perhaps ?

Something that I thought Theresa May has already ruled out. I don't think anyone should be taking a position on this until the detail of the deal is known. We don't even know the highlights yet.

jonbxx

13-11-2018 20:21

Re: Brexit

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 35970451)

Yes but none of the commission are elected, you know the ones that propose all of the EU legislation, which would put a load of red crosses on his nice chart.

None of them are elected apart from;

The Commission President who is proposed by the elected heads of state and voted in by the Parliament
The 28 Commissioners nominated by the 28 countries governments and voted on by Parliament

The Commission can propose legislation but cannot pass it, that's the job of Parliament (directly elected) and Council (heads of state indirectly elected in most cases)

---------- Post added at 19:21 ---------- Previous post was at 18:54 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 35970487)

Why don't you keep the UK's interests at the forefront rather than defending Ireland and the EU?

The EU want to sabotage Brexit and their use of the GFA is a ploy to do that as well as a brazen attempt to protect only Ireland's economic interests.

Of course I want a good deal for the UK, who in the UK wouldn't? However, it's a basic sales technique to understand and appreciate your adversaries priorities. It's not defending Ireland or the EU to understand and appreciate why they are acting in the way they do.

In the case of our recent discussions, appreciating the GFAs aims and how the CU and SM facilitate this gives a baseline for future negotiations. Both Northern Ireland and the Republic very strongly voted in favour of the agreement so there is a clear will to continue the agreement in some way or form. It's now down to the UK and EU negotiators to find that way.

The EU negotiates as a bloc for the EUs and member states interests. The EU is not going to happily or willingly compromise it and its' member states interests to facilitate Brexit.

Sephiroth

13-11-2018 20:33

Re: Brexit

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonbxx (Post 35970506)

We all know that and have always known that.

I repeat: The EU want to sabotage Brexit and their use of the GFA is a ploy to do that as well as a brazen attempt to protect only Ireland's economic interests. Surely, that is to be deprecated.

Hugh	13-11-2018 20:37

Re: Brexit

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35970467)

Of course it did - You are FAKE NEWS. :rolleyes:

---------- Post added at 17:22 ---------- Previous post was at 17:21 ----------

But then it fell off. So hardly.

Thank you, kind sir - much appreciated.

Damien

13-11-2018 20:41

Re: Brexit

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 35970512)

I repeat: The EU want to sabotage Brexit and their use of the GFA is a ploy to do that as well as a brazen attempt to protect only Ireland's economic interests. Surely, that is to be deprecated.

In the end we're running out of time and May actually has to find a workable solution. If the Irish border question is solved then someone needs to let the Government know instead of dismissing it but 'not telling' what the alternative is.

Pierre

13-11-2018 21:30

Re: Brexit

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonbxx (Post 35970506)

None of them are elected apart from;

The Commission President who is proposed by the elected heads of state and voted in by the Parliament
The 28 Commissioners nominated by the 28 countries governments and voted on by Parliament

You have a very strange idea of democracy, not elected by the people! Being elected by the establishment doesn’t cut it i’m afraid.

Quote:

The Commission can propose legislation but cannot pass it, that's the job of Parliament (directly elected) and Council (heads of state indirectly elected in most cases

The commission are the law makers, the parliament gets to debate it.

Our own unelected chamber is at least only there for oversight! They cannot make or propose any laws. The EU model is not compatible with proper Democracy

1andrew1

13-11-2018 21:45

Re: Brexit

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35970497)

I don't think anyone should be taking a position on this until the detail of the deal is known. We don't even know the highlights yet.

Totally agree.

---------- Post added at 20:45 ---------- Previous post was at 20:42 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35970491)

Rumour is that that the deal text has been leaked to the Irish Media, (thanks for that disrespect EU) and that the draft agreement sees the UK become a Slave State to the EU, we will be in a Customs Union and it will see the break up of the UK Union, Northern Ireland etc.

Do you know who leaked it or are you assuming it's the EU?

Hugh	13-11-2018 21:58

Re: Brexit

If "Brexit means Brexit", how come there is so much disagreement in the Government and the Conservative Party about what Brexit means?

papa smurf

13-11-2018 22:05

Re: Brexit

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35970535)

If "Brexit means Brexit", how come there is so much disagreement in the Government and the Conservative Party about what Brexit means?

We've moved on now it's the deal is the deal.:(

1andrew1

13-11-2018 22:10

Re: Brexit

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35970535)

If "Brexit means Brexit", how come there is so much disagreement in the Government and the Conservative Party about what Brexit means?

I'm not sure talking down-to-earth sense with the likes of BoJo and Rees-Mogg will really cut their mustard.

denphone

13-11-2018 22:12

Re: Brexit

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35970535)

If "Brexit means Brexit", how come there is so much disagreement in the Government and the Conservative Party about what Brexit means?

Because the definition of Brexit for some is very much different to the definition of Brexit for someone else hence the omnishambles of the last 2 years.

OLD BOY

13-11-2018 22:16

Re: Brexit

Quote:

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35970542)

Because the definition of Brexit for some is very much different to the definition of Brexit for someone else hence the omnishambles of the last 2 years.

Let's see the deal before we label it, Den.

denphone

13-11-2018 22:20

Re: Brexit

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35970545)

Let's see the deal before we label it, Den.

l am not labelling it as l am just pointing out what the definition of Brexit means to different people OB whether its in the government or in the country.

Mr K	13-11-2018 22:37

Re: Brexit

Quote:

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35970542)

Because the definition of Brexit for some is very much different to the definition of Brexit for someone else hence the omnishambles of the last 2 years.

So what's the definition of omnishambles ? Brexit? ;)

1andrew1

13-11-2018 22:38

Re: Brexit

Quote:

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35970542)

Because the definition of Brexit for some is very much different to the definition of Brexit for someone else hence the omnishambles of the last 2 years.

That's at the heart of the issue. The Government should have negotiated a withdrawal deal with the EU before offering people a vote. Then people wouldn't have had to vote blindly and we wouldn't have such splits in the Government.
This is not some cosy philosophical chat over a few ports in Eton, it's about the future of the UK, its inhabitants and citizens.

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