re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Turkey visa move suggested by UK diplomat, papers show



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politic...endum-36510009

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Two weeks ago I'd have agreed with you Rizz, but I no longer think Remain will edge it - I think it is almost impossible to call, but if pushed I think I'd predict Leave may win by a whisker.

If that's the outcome, I further predict we'll be shunted into the EEA without much ado, on the pretext that there is still a strong constituency for Europe within the UK.

All the more reason to keep pushing for a Leave vote. The stronger it is, the stronger the mandate to fully disentangle ourselves from the corpse that is the EU.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Trouble is back in the days before the 60's it was rare to see a non white face.

My mum told me when I was walking under a underpass with her I saw my first black guy, I said in typical 2/3 year old voice "MUMMY WHATS THAT" pointing him out, he passed my mum laughing.

Some silver surfers form that era would like those days back.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Why? Are you happy with the EU? If you are, you're the only one.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding about June 23rd, and people want to know the facts. Here are some:

You are not voting to leave the EEA or WTO, meaning all of the UK's trade and benefit agreements will remain unchanged should we leave, until such a time that the UK decides to renegotiate them for any reason.

You are not voting to leave NATO, meaning our security agreements remain unchanged. Should we receive an act of hostility from a non-NATO member, then NATO countries are obliged to come to our assistance. This does not change.

You are not voting to leave the UN, G8 or G20, meaning Britain will have the same voice on the world stage as it does today.

You are not voting to leave Europe!! The UK will still, geographically, be part of Europe. Non political organisations aligned to Europe will still extend membership to the UK (I.e. sports governing bodies, and so on).

You are not voting to stop recognising Interpol, Europol and neither are you voting for SIS / MI6 to stop dealing with other intelligence services in the fight against terrorism and global, organised crime.

You are not voting against being able to travel to Europe, contrary to the belief of some fools recently on TV. The UK has always maintained stricter border and passport controls than many EU members. This will not change. You will still use a passport to go on holiday and you will still be allowed entry to countries in Europe. You may even get chance to skip queues by using the non--EU queues at the airport (the only point so far that is my opinion, and not necessarily a fact).

The UK economy will benefit to the tune of £billions in the first year after we leave.

Medical and science research will not simply stop. The UK pays into the EU to then get money back in the form of funding. The UK will now be in control of this money and can choose to fund whatever UK based medical, science, art or other research it chooses.

Farming will not lose money because of EU funding being cut. The UK negotiated a rebate of some monies that the UK pays to the EU, in order to subsidise UK farmers. Instead of asking for our money back, we can give it straight to farmers. No change there.

You are not voting against human rights. The EU Convention on, and European Court of Human Rights are not part of the EU. Until parliament passes a new bill of rights for the UK, these will still apply, as will precedents already passed down to UK courts from Brussels.

You are not voting to kick anyone out of the UK or block access to anyone. Neither are you voting to stop recruiting valuable European workers into things like the NHS. Like my other point about passports for travel, the UK is already outside of the Schengen zone and so migrant workers must enter the UK with a valid passport before and after June 23rd. That will not change. British borders maintain full control of who comes and goes. Should someone have the skills to apply to work in the NHS, then they will still be permitted travel and given an opportunity to apply for a job. Worst case, points based assessment, like the US, Canada and Australia use, will come into effect. The UK is likely to negotiate freedom of labour movement though, in exchange for freedom of goods movement.

You are not voting to move jobs nor production out of the UK! The EU actually helped fund the move of Ford Transit production from the UK to Turkey... Yes, the EU helped give UK jobs to people in Turkey by giving Ford a loan of £80m with very generous terms!

What you are voting for is UK sovereignty. You are voting to stay in or leave a political union of leaders and representatives that you British people did not elect. You are voting against a commission of unelected, elite men that nobody at all voted for and yet they make decisions on our behalf. You are simply voting to bring sovereignty back to Westminster, and that is all. If you worry about that because you don't like the Conservative government, look at the reality. Their majority in parliament is very slim. They have been blocked on big decisions already. You are therefore not giving sovereignty to David Cameron, but to the UK House of elected representatives. Do not be fooled by the fear campaigns that are simply run by the wealthy, who need EU money to thrive! Think about the future, and your family's future.

---------- Post added at 17:48 ---------- Previous post was at 17:48 ----------

Came across the above on facebook and found it interesting.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

That's because the poll isn't really a poll of "leave" or "stay" questions

as far as i can find out this is the poll referred to in the Express,it is asking people what they would prefer to be a member of should we leave the EU and was conducted back in March ,.It would appear that the Express have read into the poll something that isn't really there

http://ourinsight.opinium.co.uk/site...p_-_tables.pdf

The only other Opinium poll conducted this weekend was published in the Observer today and has completely different results ,probably more realistic

http://ourinsight.opinium.co.uk/site...i_07_06_16.pdf

---------- Post added at 18:05 ---------- Previous post was at 18:00 ----------

I wouldn't take much notice of that poll ,it's not really an up to date poll and doesn't ask the question of how people will vote on the day

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

There is currently no promise or assurance we'll be part of the EEA. In fact many Leave people do not support such an option as free movement comes with it.

This is a fact is it?

I am not sure to what extent our relationship with cross-border science will be impacted but many research projects are across borders. The idea we'll just have British scientists doing British research is rubbish, it isn't how the scientific community works.

Then again given Gove's stance on experts we'll probably get rid of funding for those so-called 'scientists' and give the money to the everyday non-elitied people on the street to do research. Frankly I think the British people have had enough of scientists telling us how to best cure diseases anyway. :D

Thus defeating the point many people are voting for no?

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Yes Brian I'm happy with the EU as clearly shown by my posting :rolleyes:, I don't want a remain win but I think it's more likely not personally preferred. Those few seconds in a voting booth can have a dramatic effect on some and they can reverse the decision they originally had when they entered. The constant bombardment of negative economic stories we have all been subjected too for the last few weeks will influence some the only question is will it be enough for them to win.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Thanks - that's as I suspected.

The only opinion polls worth giving any attention to are ones that use the actual referendum question and, IMO, weight only loosely for likelihood to vote. Polls that weight heavily towards those certain to vote will inflate the Leave vote. The last thing we need is Leave looking like they're going to walk it.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

I can agree some of the postings in that dont really make sense to the ones wanting to leave but a lot do

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Very interesting piece by Ambrose Evans Pritchard in the Tele:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/...d-nothing-els/

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Opinium have disowned it too:

https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/...72050517483522

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

it is an outrageous piece of journalism

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Is it EU sponsored? :D

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

It's the Daily Express. The only surprising thing is that they haven't had a medium in to tell us what Princess Diana thinks of the EU (and why she backs Brexit).