Originally Posted by Stephen (Post 35949590)

You cannot possibly treat a Twitter poll as accurate and fact.

Anyone in the world can click and vote and may spam/bot accounts end up voting.

Also she said hijacked not hacked.

Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35949640)

Hardline Brexiteers like Guido Fawkes are going the full gammon over this, but TBH as a ‘real’ Brexiteer who has wanted the U.K. out of the EU for the last 25+ years, I’m content to take a couple of extra years to get it right. Davis was quite right to demand an end date be hard-wired into the plan, but nobody is going to get everything they wanted out of this, and insisting that everything would stop dead next March simply wasn’t realistic.

This is a sensible backstop position that should take the heat out of the Irish border issue. Even if there’s no deal concluded by next March, the U.K. has committed to tariff alignment for a further 2 years, negating the need for border checks of any kind, and easing trade arrangements with the continent also.

Under this scenario, there will only be complications if the EU chooses to create them.

Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35949653)

How does this not just kick the can down the road? The EU and the UK still have to agree a permanent trading relationship. Time does not necessarily erase red lines (on both sides).

Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35949653)

How does this not just kick the can down the road? The EU and the UK still have to agree a permanent trading relationship. Time does not necessarily erase red lines (on both sides).

Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35949640)

Hardline Brexiteers like Guido Fawkes are going the full gammon over this, but TBH as a ‘real’ Brexiteer who has wanted the U.K. out of the EU for the last 25+ years, I’m content to take a couple of extra years to get it right. Davis was quite right to demand an end date be hard-wired into the plan, but nobody is going to get everything they wanted out of this, and insisting that everything would stop dead next March simply wasn’t realistic.

This is a sensible backstop position that should take the heat out of the Irish border issue. Even if there’s no deal concluded by next March, the U.K. has committed to tariff alignment for a further 2 years, negating the need for border checks of any kind, and easing trade arrangements with the continent also.

Under this scenario, there will only be complications if the EU chooses to create them.

Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35949664)

The permanent solution will be the only one on the table - some kind of facilitation deal, with trusted partners and monitoring via technology. That, however, requires time to implement. Kicking the can down the road is all HMG needs to do in order to get the plan in place. It’s hard to see what objection the EU can have, when it comes to it, if the thing is up and running anyway.

Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35949664)

The permanent solution will be the only one on the table - some kind of facilitation deal, with trusted partners and monitoring via technology. That, however, requires time to implement. Kicking the can down the road is all HMG needs to do in order to get the plan in place. It’s hard to see what objection the EU can have, when it comes to it, if the thing is up and running anyway.

Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35949668)

Sorry, I missed this piece of news. What plan is this exactly? You sound like we have a plan *and* it will be agreed so all we need is the time to implement it.

Sounds like wishful thinking to me ..

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35949433)

It is not a fiasco leaving the EU.

Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35949589)

I am not sure I have this right but you are saying that you do not agree with Rees Mogg on the EU (and possibly other policies): policies that will shape and define the future, prosperity and welfare of the country, your children (if you have them), etc. You would, however, vote for him because of your shared belief system?

I find this strange to say the least ..

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35949730)

Did you get those from "Leading Questions R Us"?

You missed out "have you stopped beating your wife?" and "why is everything so bad?"...

Originally Posted by Carth (Post 35949756)

but whatever, it really makes no difference to the state of the UK whether we're in or out.

Originally Posted by Chloé Palmas (Post 35949736)

Pretty much spot on, but it goes a bit farther than that. So yes, you got it, but there is a deeper reason. So for example across Christianity there is a conundrum that always has one answer: the question is that of works VS faith.

So the basic question is this, do you have faith alone which will get you into heaven or must you earn your way into it, through deeds?

In Galations 2: 16 Paul says this:



Then, James says this: (James 2: 14 through 17)



Now, this argument is both futile and unanswerable in the first place - Paul gets close to answering it, himself in Romans 7 15 through 24:



See the answer is one and the same, every single time. You are covered by God's grace through belief and if that belief is sincere and you have Christ in your heart, the acts will follow naturally because of your faith - the deeds will come naturally because you truly are a Christian.

Now for what I personally care about as a Christian I would expect to come naturally to my every day life. It doesn't always, but as I have Christ in my heart my desire is to do His work. Because the faith is there, the rest comes as second nature.

Now in regards to JRM, the shared faith leads me to believe that his deeds will follow suit - he has Christ in his heart (which I truly believe that he does) and I believe that his acts will follow accordingly. Given every chance he got, he refused to abandon his Catholic principles and stood firm in his opposition to gay marriage and abortion. He had every single chance to say something like "it is a settled matter" etc etc, but he did not. This is what I was saying to Mick...public opinion is one thing but so long as your own principles do not get compromised along the way, you are good.

You mentioned the future of our children in your post so firstly yes, I am a mother, and I have a 10 year old thank you for asking. I believe that he (specifically) is the member with the most value for the sanctity of life. For me, that is the single biggest issue and most important (along with faith in general) and yes, that over-rides the other issue(s) that you have mentioned. If we leave the EU...oh well. So long as he defines that a child must never be killed in the womb, I will support him.

This is also something I can share with politicians of other denominations, within the same faith - like Frank Fields who is a politician from the other side of the aisle. He is an outstanding advocate for the poor and needy (again as Christ taught us) and he has campaigned tirelessly for the more vulnerable in our society (the disabled, elderly, poor etc). He also was a phenomenal supporter of the troops, taking care of those who were injured in combat through the Iraq and Afghanistan wars and has been supportive of the mission there all along.

It can even go beyond the denomination - my former MP was Matthew Offord (until I moved). He was opposed to the gay marriage bill, he supports Israel beyond question, and ironically enough, opposed to the EU like the two others above, too. I am in favor of EU membership for Britain but ultimately it is not important for me as an issue (insofar as priorities go).

You are right, I do not agree with JRM on the EU and some other stuff. But I do agree with him (and the two above) on God the father (though Offord being Jewish only sees the son as a prophet) and the protection of every unborn child, first and foremost. JRM is my denomination and I would love a Roman Catholic PM but beyond the faith, all 3 have supported restricting abortion or banning it altogether, they all supported the Iraq war and have been phenomenal supporters of Israel, too. Field does a great deal for the poor and the needy (as Christ taught us), Offord does a great job defending the constituency with the largest Jewish population in the country and even though I may not agree with all 3 on Europe I don't particularly care - God before country any day. Because if you have the faith, the acts that the Father told us to carry out, will follow naturally.

Originally Posted by Carth (Post 35949725)

A few off the cuff questions . .

Does anyone believe that either staying or leaving will cause a massive uplift in the amount of housing available, and therefore cure the homeless problem we have?

Does anyone believe that either staying or leaving will lead to a huge reduction in the criminal activities we are now seeing so much of?

Does anyone believe that either staying or leaving will create many thousands of new jobs (that don't depend on benefit top-ups)?

Does anyone believe that either staying or leaving will turn the NHS into an institution that manages its role and finances efficiently?

Does anyone believe that either staying or leaving will massively increase the standard of education in this country?

in my opinion, for the little it's worth, it makes no difference if we stay or leave, we'd actually lost years ago.