Re: Hamas Israel War
 

That’s not my words, Chris! This is just denial on your part.

Hamas will not be content until Israel is no longer occupied by the Israelis, and Israel has every right to defend itself. To do so, it does need to take out Hamas. If it doesn’t the daily rocket attacks continue and both random and planned terror attacks will take place periodically. How do you propose that Israel deal with Hamas when they embed themselves amongst civilians for whatever reason?

There are bound to be inadvertent casualties - collateral damage as they say in the business - and as long as Israel do what they can to protect citizens while attending to the matter at hand, they will not be in breach of international law.

Why do you expect Israel to comply with every nicety of civilisation when the other side plays as dirty as it gets? This is a totally unrealistic expectation.

I do think, however, that there needs to be an investigation as to who killed those people trying to escape the area. That is very concerning, and I hope it wasn’t Israel. Hamas are not averse to blowing up their own people and blaming it on Israel. They have form. And of course, they are telling their own people not to leave, which puts them in harm’s way. That is on Hamas.

Re: Hamas Israel War
 

It's called a war crime, Old Boy and I'm disappointed to see you condoning collective punishment. It's also counter-productive as it acts as a recruiter for Hamas and reduces the goodwill for Israel internationally.

Re: Hamas Israel War
 

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Said completely without irony.

You are the man who said people would rise up here if anyone threatened to reopen negotiations on a trade settlement.

How will your average Palestinian teenager, who now hasn’t been at school for over a week, evacuated from their home now destroyed, that now has absolutely nothing thanks to Israel, potentially dead family members, react when an Iranian hands them a few hundred dollars and a gun in ten years time?

None of them will thank the United States for putting two battle groups offshore to permit it, that’s for certain. Nor will they see any comfort in the 2006 Palestinian election results.

There’s a fault in the British mindset where it’s so clouded by its own colonial history it simply cannot comprehend the rights of the colonised to live with freedom, dignity and respect. And their right to fight for that cause.

(Note to avoid any doubt: that final sentence doesn’t condone terror attacks on cilivians as distinct from state apparatus)

Re: Hamas Israel War
 

Those words are literally in your post. :confused:

Re: Hamas Israel War
 

Re: Hamas Israel War
 

I didn’t suggest it was a conscious thought, only that it was an inability to comprehend events from the other side. It can’t align with experiences it’s own history hasn’t experienced.

It can more readily align with suppressing such opposition. It’s in the national psyche so much it’s referenced in the national anthem.

Even today we have our armed forces minister, just as we had our foreign secretary yesterday, providing political cover for Israel by failing to condemn what we can see with our very eyes.

At best China is establishing moral authority outside Europe and North America and at worst Iran in the Middle East and North Africa. Simply because they can tell the truth.

Re: Hamas Israel War
 

My grandad used to say this..........that's why he was sacked by West Yorkshire Fire Service.

---------- Post added at 11:38 ---------- Previous post was at 11:37 ----------

This will truly save lives.

Re: Hamas terrorists invade Israel, kill civilians and take hostages
 

You can say this. Steve Bell is silenced.

Re: Hamas Israel War
 

I’m sure Lozza, Nige and the free speech brigade will be out there any minute campaigning for him to be reinstated.

Speaking of which where’s the “all lives matter” lot?

Re: Hamas Israel War
 

You have demonstrated this repeatedly in the course of this discussion by pretending the problems began in 1948. I’d be interested to hear your take on how the British Mandate (1920-1948) contributed to the failure of the proposed two-state arrangement from the very outset.

Re: Hamas Israel War
 

You guys seem to want to deliberately misunderstand everything.

When I said that, I was quoting what Hamas have already claimed. That’s what I meant, and you must know that.

---------- Post added at 12:58 ---------- Previous post was at 12:51 ----------

My God, jfman, you are a sad case. You totally omit to take account of Hamas’s actions, mindset and refusal to engage in peace talks.

The problem is not the West when it comes to trying to resolve these problems and your persistent refusal to acknowledge this is disingenuous to say the least.

Colonialism! What utter rubbish you do talk. Only the extreme left wing nuts are obsessed with colonialism.

Re: Hamas Israel War
 

OB I will absolutely not be called a sad case off someone whose most meaningful insight - among the shifting of goalposts - to date is that families in Gaza can “suck on that”.

International law doesn’t only apply in some circumstances it applies in all circumstances. If we can’t stand by that principle why should Putin, Xi, Assad, or today’s Palestinian teenagers offered guns and money off Iran in ten years time?

Biden visiting on Wednesday (I think still a rumour) suggests the penny is finally dropping.

Re: Hamas Israel War
 

If everybody is misunderstanding you, I suggest the fault is more likely to be at your end.

The remedy is quite simple. If you are indeed quoting someone, put their actual words in quotation marks and include a link to the source.

---------- Post added at 15:08 ---------- Previous post was at 13:51 ----------

Interesting piece in the FT about the US approach.
https://www.ft.com/content/e0a6da0f-...2-92f2b578febf

Re: Hamas Israel War
 

So when they said after World War 2 “never again” they presumably silently said “to us” afterwards.

Re: Hamas Israel War