Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

Here, here

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

I think I'm right in saying that most of the privatisation of the NHS in recent times has been brought about by Labour, via PFI.

You wouldn't think it from the things they come out with.

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

I think Corbyn is arguing against further privatisation of the NHS eg by NHS trusts outsourcing work to companies like Virgin Care and Circle Health. He's not attempting to justify the PFI and PPP schemes from previous administrations.

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

So instead of getting people the care they need quicker by using the private sector to take up the slack, people will have to wait longer to get the care they need.

Yes, that would make sense to the Cobynistas! God help us!!

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

I think his key arguments have been about outsourcing existing functions to private companies, not using the private sector for overflow in times of peak demand.

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

It's typical of their lies and spin. They portray themselves as the friends of a publicly run NHS and castigate the Tories when in fact they've done more to privatise it than the Tories ever did. Sadly rather too many people still fall for it because it's what they want to hear.

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

I think the debate is about which parties will privatise most or least of the NHS going forward. It's convenient for some to try and measure which party used PPP or PFI contracts the most but I've not seen a figure on this nor is it really a relevant debate, as these contracts have largely been discredited by all parties.

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

Let me tell you this in April this year the entire childrens services of my NHS trust was transferred to Virgin Healthcare.

Some of the PFI figures I know as a union rep they would make your eyes water.

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

It's also convenient for some to deny the scale of the PFI debacle and the huge ONGOING costs these contracts are imposing on the NHS and will be doing for decades. That money could be being far better spent where it matters instead of simply adding to the costs before we even start treating anyone.

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

I don't think you'll find JC denying their ongoing costs. His party seems to have learnt from the sorry state of affairs. Unlike the Conservatives who may well be motivated to deny the scale of the PPP-PFI debacle.

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

Now that is a cast iron 100% fact. Sadly..

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

PFI was a Labour initiative, wasn't it? They should not be allowed to dodge that truth.

Frankly I don't care whether the private or public sector run it, as long as we get better value for money, and provided that it remains free at the point of delivery.

---------- Post added at 16:39 ---------- Previous post was at 16:33 ----------

Why does anyone care so much who runs the NHS? It's a ridiculous debate, given the obvious inefficiency that we have to contend with while it remains as it is.

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

I do surely when the private sector run it they have to make a profit.

So the PFI deals were astronomical with profits built in.

As will deals be that sees private sector companies buy up chunks of the NHS free at the point of delivery or not profit is key.

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

On the other hand when there's no profit there's no incentive to keep costs down, in fact there's a tendency to overspend in order to justify current/higher budgets. You see that in local government when, come March every year, certain departments embark on a spending splurge in order to ensure the money they've been allocated is spent. Granted that's become less common in recent years due to the pressure on finances.

Neither system is perfect but it shouldn't be impossible to arrive at some form of compromise which takes the best of both. The NHS cannot continue to be run the way it is because it could swallow every penny of GDP and still need more. It's been tinkered with and allowed to develop in a largely ad-hoc manner for decades and putting that right will take decades, if anyone can grasp such a poisoned chalice.

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

What you are not seeing is that the private sector can take a profit from the efficiencies they introduce whilst still saving money for the taxpayer.

The PFI debacle was a poorly thought out Labour initiative which did nothing to limit ongoing costs. It just shows the level of inexperience and business know-how in the Labour Party that resulted in this state of affairs.