Cable Forum - Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

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Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Yes l have no doubt if one is called for a assessment they don't give much notice as l have requested a home assessment visit if they do require a assessment as my doctor writ a letter asking for this.

So one has to have two recording bits of equipment and it can only be done with a CD or cassette which frankly went out with the ark.

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

I posted this in a PIP FB forum last month.

Quote:

Audio recording Face to face interviews
Graham Tâf Parsons·Wednesday, 15 February 2017

DBC recommendation 14 – Audio recording should be available for all assessments and the DWP should evaluate what impact it has on the quality and accuracy of assessments.

DBC recommendation 15 – All claimants should be provided with a copy of the assessor’s report as soon as possible after their assessment and have the opportunity to flag up anything in the report that they believe to be inaccurate

https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...p-response.pdf

Quote:

But.....
The Department has asked Personal Independence Payment (PIP) assessment providers not to offer audio recording of consultations or to provide recording equipment at present. We have not seen any evidence from other disability assessments that audio recording face-to-face consultations would improve the quality of assessments and there was only limited evidence of improvement in the customer experience for some individuals.

The Department is currently evaluating the costs and benefits of the approach to audio recording of Work Capability Assessments.

If there is evidence in support of a more proactive approach to audio recording DWP will review the arrangements for PIP.
As a result, we have asked Capita not to offer audio recording at this stage.

We communicated this message in our responseto the Disability Benefits Consortium’s briefing on the provider pledges. You can find this on the GOV.UK website at

http://www.gov.uk/government/uploads...p-response.pdf

They refuse "digital" recordings as they can be "edited". Hmm... I can edit analogue recordings very easily.

---------- Post added at 18:50 ---------- Previous post was at 18:47 ----------

I also posted this

Quote:

PERSONAL INDEPENDENCE PAYMENT ASSESSMENT Interpretation of terms
Graham Tâf Parsons·Tuesday, 28 February 2017
Aided
Aided means with
1. the use of an aid or appliance or
2. supervision, prompting or assistance.
Assistance
Assistance means physical intervention by another person and does not include speech.
Assistance Dog
Assistance dog means a dog trained to guide or assist a person with a sensory impairment.
Basic verbal information
Basic verbal information means information in the claimant’s native language conveyed in a simple sentence.
Basic written information
Basic written information means signs, symbols and dates written or printed in the claimant’s native language.
Bathe
Bathe includes getting into or out of an unadapted bath or shower.
Communication support
Communication support means support from a person trained or experienced in communicating with people with specific communication needs including interpreting verbal information into a non-verbal form and vice versa.
Complex budgeting decisions
Complex budgeting decisions means decisions involving
1. calculating household and personal budgets and
2. managing and paying bills and planning future purchases
Complex verbal information
Complex verbal information means information in the claimant’s native languagec onveyed in either more than one sentence or one complicated sentence.
Complex written information
Complex written information means more than one sentence of written or printed standard size text in the claimant’s native language.
Cook
Cook means to heat food at or above waist height.
Dress and undress
Dress and undress includes putting on and taking off socks and shoes.
Engage socially
Engage socially means
1. interact with others in a contextually and socially appropriate manner and
2. understand body language and
3. establish relationships.
Manage incontinence
Manage incontinence means manage involuntary evacuation of the bowel or bladder including use of a collecting device or self-catheterisation and clean oneself afterwards.
Manage medication or therapy
Manage medication or therapy means take medication or undertake therapy, where a failure to do so is likely to result in a deterioration in the claimant’s health.
Medication
Medication means medication to be taken at home which is prescribed or recommended by a registered
1. doctor
2. nurse or
3. pharmacist.
Monitor health
Monitor health means
1. detect significant changes in the claimant’s condition which are likely to lead to
a deterioration in their health and
2. take action advised by a
2.1 registered doctor
2.2 registered nurse or
2.3 health professional who is regulated by the Health Professions Council without which the claimant’s health is likely to deteriorate.
Orientation aid
Orientation aid means a specialist aid designed to assist disabled people to follow a route safely.
Prepare
In the context of food prepare means to make food ready for cooking or eating.
Prompting
Prompting means reminding, encouraging or explaining by another person.
Psychological distress
Psychological distress means distress related to an enduring mental health condition or an intellectual or cognitive impairment.
Read
Read includes reading signs, symbols and words but does not include reading Braille.
Simple budgeting decisions
Simple budgeting decisions means decisions involving
1. calculating the cost of goods and
2. calculating change required after a purchase.
Simple Meal
Simple meal means a cooked one-course meal for one using fresh ingredients.
Social Support
Social support means support from a person trained or experienced in assisting people to engage in social situations.
Stand
Stand means stand upright with at least one biological foot on the ground.
Supervision
Supervision means the continuous presence of another person for the purpose of
ensuring the claimant’s safety.
Take nutrition
Take nutrition means
1. to cut food into pieces and
2. convey food or drink to one’s mouth and
3. chew and swallow food or drink or
4. take nutrition by using a therapeutic source.
Therapeutic source
Therapeutic source means parenteral or enteral tube feeding, using a rate limiting
device such as a delivery system or feed pump.
Therapy
Therapy means therapy to be undertaken at home which is prescribed or recommended by a
1. registered
1.1 doctor
1.2 nurse or
1.3 pharmacist
2. health professional regulated by the Health Professions Council.
Toilet needs
Toilet needs means
1. getting on and off an unadapted toilet and
2. evacuating the bladder and bowel and
3. cleaning oneself afterwards.
Unaided
Unaided means without
1. the use of an aid or appliance or
2. supervision, prompting or assistance

---------- Post added at 18:55 ---------- Previous post was at 18:50 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35888694)

So one has to have two recording bits of equipment and it can only be done with a CD or cassette which frankly went out with the ark.

A few claimants have found twin recorders on Amazon, I bet Amazon are wondering why the sudden desire to buy them....

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 35888221)

Today's Metro newspaper carries a report of how a man with no arms had his benefits stopped after being told "Crawl to work, you've still got arms" :shocked:

Something really has to be done about the way that disabled people are being treated by this Government.

There was a rather satirical mention of this case on last Friday's 'The Last Leg' :D

---------- Post added at 07:49 ---------- Previous post was at 07:42 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35888694)

So one has to have two recording bits of equipment and it can only be done with a CD or cassette which frankly went out with the ark.

Exactly. The Radio 4 programme for the blind 'In Touch' and the consumer programme 'You & Yours' came to the same conclusion.

They are just being difficult & want to stop people recording what's really been said in these interviews.

Some of the discriminatory, rude and ignorant stereotyping has been outrageous, not to mention the discrepancies between what claimants remember and what the assessors wrote in the report when they finally got to read it.

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Quote:

The DWP have finally published regulations removing the work-related activity component of employment and support allowance (ESA) for new claims.

New ESA claimants in the work-related activity group who are aged 25 or over will receive only £73.10 a week. They will not receive the additional £29.05 component that current claimants receive.

Similar regulations apply to universal credit claimants who have limited capability for work.

Claimants who made a claim for ESA before 3 April, or who are deemed to have made a claim before that date, as well as claimants who are still waiting to be transferred from incapacity benefits to ESA, will not be affected.

Claimants who qualify for the support group are not affected by the changes.

...yet....

https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/ne...017+newsletter

---------- Post added at 11:29 ---------- Previous post was at 11:28 ----------

Quote:

Last month a tribunal of judges ruled that claimants with mental health conditions such as severe anxiety have a right to claim even the higher rate of PIP for help with going outdoors.

It was a decision that put an end to years of the DWP deliberately misinterpreting the law. It meant that many thousands of people with serious mental health conditions finally had a chance to gain a little bit more independence.

So the government acted with remarkable speed.

Bypassing the social security advisory committee, who are supposed to get the chance to comment on all changes to social security law, they published a statutory instrument that will reverse the judges’ decision.

In an effort to justify overturning the judges’ ruling, Tory policy supremo George Freeman mocked as “bizarre” the idea that claimants with mental health conditions should be eligible for PIP. Instead, he said, PIP should only be for “the really disabled people who need it.”

The changes will apply to all claims made from 16 March, 2017.

https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/ne...017+newsletter

---------- Post added at 11:30 ---------- Previous post was at 11:29 ----------

Quote:

Sir Ernest Ryder, the Senior President of Tribunals, has confirmed that benefits claimants will be the Guinea pigs for changes to appeal tribunals due to begin in September 2017. From that date social security tribunals will move more and more online.

You can look forward to attempting to upload your personal data to the cloud, getting emails from tribunal clerks or judges which hopefully won’t disappear into your spam folder and to having a hearing – if you get one at all – via Skype or telephone.

https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/ne...017+newsletter

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

More disgraceful behaviour by this Government.

They are being urged not to go ahead with cutting benefits to widowed parents from next month:

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...idowed-parents

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 35889367)

More disgraceful behaviour by this Government.

They are being urged not to go ahead with cutting benefits to widowed parents from next month:

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...idowed-parents

Why on earth in the 21st Century, should they be entitled to up to 20 years of money?

Quote:

The government’s new bereaved support payment will provide a larger lump sum after a death, rising from £2,000 to £3,500, but will see the benefit time-limited to just 18 months compared with a maximum of 20 years.
...
A DWP spokesman said: “The old system – introduced more than 90 years ago – was based on the outdated assumption that a widowed parent relied on their spouse for income, and would never work themselves. This doesn’t reflect people’s lives today.

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35888229)

Here we are Nomad.

http://www.hackneygazette.co.uk/news...arms_1_4908497

Quote:

At the time the DWP said because Julius’ arms were working order, he could use them to “climb” stairs and therefore had “mobility”.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35888373)

So EVERYTHING in your post was FALSE. There wasn't even a "crawl to work" comment involved. It's quite possible that he said that he could haul himself up/down stairs at home. If he did, it should have been ignored as that is not the context the question is meant to be applied.

Unless there are other factors we haven't been told about, he is still not eligible for ESA. Being in a wheelchair only gives 9 points, when at least 15 are needed. The reasoning for just 9 points is that many people in wheelchairs DO work, so he could. All that time he would still be receiving the higher rates of mobility DLA or PIP.

I agree there is people in wheelchairs who do work, but the vast majority of them were already employed when they became disabled, keeping a job is very different to trying to get one.

You can get 15 points for a wheelchair, but the wheelchair itself actually is now disregarded by the ESA assessors, they consider that if you have a wheelchair then you are "mobile".

What is even worse is that people without wheelchairs they can "pretend" they have one and as such are mobile.

To get 15 points with a wheelchair would be e.g. if you cannot self propel the wheelchair, in which case you should get 15 points.

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrysalis (Post 35889381)

As silly as that sounds, it is how the DWP has been operating for a good few years now, they seriously have that mindset.

They will keep operating in such a way as it gains a net expenditure drop from the practice as not everyone will appeal.

They justify it by saying its about "what people can do" instead of "what they cannot do", however I have met no employers who agree with that policy (when considering someone for a new job).

---------- Post added at 20:44 ---------- Previous post was at 20:41 ----------

I agree there is people in wheelchairs who do work, but the vast majority of them were already employed when they became disabled, keeping a job is very different to trying to get one.

You can get 15 points for a wheelchair, but the wheelchair itself actually is now disregarded by the ESA assessors, they consider that if you have a wheelchair then you are "mobile".

What is even worse is that people without wheelchairs they can "pretend" they have one and as such are mobile.

To get 15 points with a wheelchair would be e.g. if you cannot self propel the wheelchair, in which case you should get 15 points.

The problem with the mobility descriptor is that the activities of mobilizing and going up/down stairs are combined. So while a claimant may be judged capable of mobilizing with a manual wheelchair, the 2nd question also needs to be asked of can they walk up/down 2 steps. I should imagine that is where the original confusion arose.

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

People who use crutches or the like which are not prescribed and supplied by a "medical professional" are now deemed to have made a "lifestyle choice" to use them, and are thus deemed to be "mobile".

Did you know that drivers without arms can get a Disabled Parking Badge "because they cannot put coins into parking meters"?

---------- Post added at 20:56 ---------- Previous post was at 20:53 ----------

The PIP questionnaire asks if the applicant has problems walking on slopes or uneven ground.

But if you answer "yes" the DWP replies "we cannot take into consideration your mobility problems on slopes or uneven ground".

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taf (Post 35889385)

If they are mobile as a result of using crutches, what is the problem. They are mobile and that is what is being assessed.

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35889384)

That descriptor was done away with purely as a means to have less people with mobility problems from qualifying a financial decision to hit a target, sadly mobility disability has been the most targeted by the last 2 governments on both ESA and PIP. You can still get 15 points, but it is harder.

e.g. in the past you could perhaps get 9 points for the walking distance, and then 6 points from difficulties walking up stairs. Now for mobility you need all 15 on the mobility descriptor.

Also in the past several years ago now, the assessment was excluding walking aids, not only is it now including mobility aids but if you dont have the aids they can pretend you have them if it means determining you are mobile enough.

---------- Post added at 21:14 ---------- Previous post was at 21:12 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35889389)

If they are mobile as a result of using crutches, what is the problem. They are mobile and that is what is being assessed.

So lets say there is a fire in a tall building, you on the 30th floor and lift out of order, the guy with the crutches can get out as safely as the others? Also how does a person with crutches follow a simple work task which might be to carry a box across a room?

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrysalis (Post 35889392)

You are wrong about the old Incapacity Benefit system. Walking and going up/down a flight of stairs were separate descriptors, but when it came to adding up the points, it was only one(whichever was higher number of points) of the 2 that scored. It you got 9 for walking and 6 for stairs, the points that counted would be the 9, not 15.

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Our Prime Minister today talking about how our £millions in International Aid shows what a "kind and generous country we are".

Hypocrisy!

And an announcement that recent changes to the PIP criteria to exclude many with mental health problems and anxiety "will not affect those currently in receipt of PIP". Maybe not, but they will do on the next review.

---------- Post added at 15:03 ---------- Previous post was at 14:37 ----------

Quote:

...we are a kind and generous country. It says that we are a big country that will never let down – or turn our back on – those in need. And it says that we are a country that does – and will always – meet our commitments to the world – and particularly to those who so desperately need our support. And that is important to remember.

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/0...ll-transcript/

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

I had briefly hoped that things would improve under May, but it looks like she's as bad as her predecessor.