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-   -   Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33712196)

Pierre 23-08-2025 08:59
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36201563)
Mrmistoffeles has posted a reliable source that shows Hamas are not appropriating the aid. Maybe there'a a non-mainstream website out there that says aliens are stealing it?

Plenty of aid may be provided but as we know, Israel is not allowing enough of it into Gaza.
Did you or Mrmistoffeles read the article he posted?

Quote:
A State Department spokesperson disputed the findings,
Quote:
A White House spokesperson, Anna Kelly, questioned the existence of the analysis,
The very last sentence of the article:

Quote:
The study noted a limitation: because Palestinians who receive aid cannot be vetted, it was possible that U.S.-funded supplies went to administrative officials of Hamas, the Islamist rulers of Gaza.
Hardly a slam dunk.

Hugh 23-08-2025 09:39
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
A State Department spokesperson disputed the findings, saying there is video evidence of Hamas looting aid, but provided no such videos. The spokesperson also accused traditional humanitarian groups of covering up "aid corruption."

A White House spokesperson, Anna Kelly, questioned the existence of the analysis, saying no State Department official had seen it and that it "was likely produced by a deep state operative" seeking to discredit President Donald Trump's "humanitarian agenda."
Your quotes missed out a few relevant bits…

a) no evidence to support the State Department spokesman

b) according to the White House spokesperson, no one had seen it, so it must be fake, and then immediately spun to the "deep state" narrative…

Pierre 23-08-2025 10:04
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36201566)
Your quotes missed out a few relevant bits…

a) no evidence to support the State Department spokesman

b) according to the White House spokesperson, no one had seen it, so it must be fake, and then immediately spun to the "deep state" narrative…
The whole article is rendered impotent by the last sentence. That was really all I needed to quote.

1andrew1 23-08-2025 11:02
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36201567)
The whole article is rendered impotent by the last sentence. That was really all I needed to quote.
Not really. That's what reputable sources do as opposed to opinion-led websites.

mrmistoffelees 23-08-2025 11:04
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36201567)
The whole article is rendered impotent by the last sentence. That was really all I needed to quote.
No it’s not, and conveniently you also fail to include

‘ The analysis found that at least 44 of the 156 incidents where aid supplies were reported stolen or lost were “either directly or indirectly” due to Israeli military actions, according to the briefing slides.’



What exactly will it take for you to acknowledge your beloved IDF are not as pure as the driven snow ? That they have repeatedly failed to follow the rules of conflict ? And finally that their responses are and have not been proportionate.

Should be simple questions for someone such as yourself to answer

Carth 23-08-2025 11:17
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
I find it hilarious that in this day and age, supposedly grown intelligent adults still put their 'faith' in obscure articles written by people who, lets face reality here, don't have a clue what's really going on.

Haven't you all had enough of being led through life by those who tell the best story?

That Pavlov character didn't go far enough into his research :rofl:

Pierre 23-08-2025 11:38
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
It’s laughable, you and Andrew are free to cling onto whatever articles you want.

But I treat with a hefty dose of scepticism an article that starts with:

Quote:
Exclusive: USAID analysis found no evidence of massive Hamas theft of Gaza aid
And ends with:

Quote:
The study noted a limitation: because Palestinians who receive aid cannot be vetted, it was possible that U.S.-funded supplies went to administrative officials of Hamas, the Islamist rulers of Gaza.
Found no evidence because it is impossible determine whether Hamas are appropriating the aid and withholding it.

Great study, i wouldn’t hang my hat on it though.

mrmistoffelees 23-08-2025 11:52
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36201575)
It’s laughable, you and Andrew are free to cling onto whatever articles you want.

But I treat with a hefty dose of scepticism an article that starts with:



And ends with:



Found no evidence because it is impossible determine whether Hamas are appropriating the aid and withholding it.

Great study, i wouldn’t hang my hat on it though.
I see nothing changes and you’re still unable or unwilling to answer simple questions.

Personally , I think the only thing laughable is your rabid fixation that the Israeli forces/government have done no wrong.

Please feel free to correct that point

Pierre 23-08-2025 12:25
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36201576)
Personally , I think the only thing laughable is your rabid fixation that the Israeli forces/government have done no wrong.

Please feel free to correct that point
Feel free to provide any quote where I have said the IDF have done “no wrong”.

mrmistoffelees 23-08-2025 14:55
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36201581)
Feel free to provide any quote where I have said the IDF have done “no wrong”.
Of course, I’ll be more than happy to go through this threwd , just as soon as you answer the questions posed to you by myself a couple of posts up.

Pierre 23-08-2025 20:19
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36201571)
What exactly will it take for you to acknowledge your beloved IDF are not as pure as the driven snow ?
Well they’re not my “beloved”, I’m not Jewish, have any connections to Israel or have any skin in the game whatsoever, and I don’t believe they’re as white as the driven snow.

But they’re doing what they believe needs to be done, they’re trying to eradicate an Islamist death cult that bestowed one the greatest atrocities their nation has ever experienced.

But it’ll take more than unsubstantiated claim in a dodgy article.

Quote:
That they have repeatedly failed to follow the rules of conflict?
Well what rules exactly? They’re fighting an insurgent guerrilla war. One where an apparent Palestinian civilian, can suddenly appear with an AK47 or IED.

They follow the rules more than HAMAS

Quote:
And finally that their responses are and have not been proportionate.
I think Israel’s response as been wholly proportionate. If Israel wanted to commit a “genocide” and visit upon HAMAS and the Palestinian civilians that took part in Oct 7th (let’s not forget it wasn’t just HAMAS, Palestinian civilians and UNWRA workers participated in the atrocity) this would all have been over by Oct 10th.

I think they’ve prosecuted it as well as could be expected in the circumstances.

Better than I would have, as here’s my first post on this thread on Oct 8th 2023

Here is my first post on the thread, posted a few hours after Oct 7th

Quote:
If I was Israel, I would completely destroy Gaza, just flatten it.

I know that’s what Hamas want, but i would give it to them in spades.

Give them 24hrs warning, then flatten it.


Quote:
Should be simple questions for someone such as yourself to answer
There you go, I’ve answered them.

mrmistoffelees 24-08-2025 16:43
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Thanks, enjoying the weekend so I’ll come back to you in the next couple of days

Pierre 24-08-2025 17:11
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36201612)
Thanks, enjoying the weekend so I’ll come back to you in the next couple of days
Me too, enjoy!

Pierre 29-08-2025 21:06
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36201612)
Thanks, enjoying the weekend so I’ll come back to you in the next couple of days
When you’re ready, in your own time.

What do you think of this?

https://www.timesofisrael.com/livebl...2-sons-inside/


Do you think after maiming two children an IDF soldier would go and help himself to a coke?

Pierre 30-08-2025 20:05
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
......

thenry 09-09-2025 14:32
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Israel launches strikes against Hamas leaders in Qatar's capital Doha

https://news.sky.com/story/gaza-late...#liveblog-body
Damn! Hamas really are finished.

Sephiroth 09-09-2025 14:43
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
How to squander whatever Arab goodwill may have existed.

45rpm 09-09-2025 15:08
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36201596)
I think Israel’s response as been wholly proportionate. If Israel wanted to commit a “genocide” and visit upon HAMAS and the Palestinian civilians that took part in Oct 7th this would all have been over by Oct 10th.
.
That is very true!

Pierre 09-09-2025 20:57
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36202456)
How to squander whatever Arab goodwill may have existed.
Not at all, the UAE and others in the region hate and deal harshly …. More than us…….with islamists

1andrew1 09-09-2025 21:32
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36202456)
How to squander whatever Arab goodwill may have existed.
I think Mad Net has given up caring. He's literally going out with a bang and is taking Israel.down with him.

Paul 09-09-2025 21:43
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Did they use missiles, or planes ?
I would have though Qatar would shoot down any planes.

Pierre 09-09-2025 21:54
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36202482)
I think Mad Net has given up caring. He's literally going out with a bang and is taking Israel.down with him.
Qatar are harbouring terrorists and terrorist funding.

They are absolutely legitimate targets.

Saudi Arabia are not friends with Qatar, nor are the UAE (or Bahrain most likely).

Qatar are Islamist supporters, I doubt anyone in the region will care if they’re bombed.

The only problem is that it is Israel doing the bombing, but i don’t think they’ll make much noise.

papa smurf 10-09-2025 08:08
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
From what i read in the news, attempts to kill Hamas leadership failed ,but on the plus side Netanyahu has made another enemy

1andrew1 10-09-2025 13:15
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36202488)
Saudi Arabia are not friends with Qatar, nor are the UAE (or Bahrain most likely).
That information is out of date.

The Al-Ula Declaration signed in January 2021 has seen them become friends again. As of July 2023, Bahrain, Chad, Egypt, Maldives, Mauritania, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, and the UAE had restored diplomatic ties with Qatar.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatar_...0the%20Qataris.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36202488)
Qatar are Islamist supporters, I doubt anyone in the region will care if they’re bombed.
Quote:
Israel's unexpected strike has angered not only Qatar and its Middle East neighbours, but also its own closest ally in Washington and, though it claimed the attack was "precise", the IDF missed its targets.
https://news.sky.com/story/israel-ha...trike-13428093

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36202488)
They are absolutely legitimate targets.
Quote:
They claim it was a "precise strike", but none of the Hamas leadership were taken out as they claimed was their objective.

Five lower-ranking officials were killed along with a member of Qatar's security forces. What it has done is left any hope of ceasefire talks in tatters.

For many, this was a huge miscalculation by Benjamin Netanyahu.
https://news.sky.com/story/israel-ha...trike-13428093

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36202488)
Qatar are harbouring terrorists and terrorist funding.
Because the US asked them to and Israel agreed.
Quote:
In 2011, the US government persuaded the Qataris to let Hamas open a political office in Doha, and the Israelis approved of the idea.

Everyone wanted an address to negotiate with and funnel millions of dollars through to Gaza.

In the words of one Israeli official: "We believe that better conditions in Gaza would lessen the incentive of Hamas and the population to go again to a war. So in a way, it is helping the deterrence."

Critics of Benjamin Netanyahu said he was deliberately strengthening one wing of Palestinian politics as part of a cynical policy of divide and rule.

For whatever reason, Israel acquiesced fully in the Hamas political office being set up in Doha. It was staffed with some of the veterans of its cause who seem to have been on the target list in this strike.
https://news.sky.com/story/many-reas...tages-13427757

mrmistoffelees 14-09-2025 17:51
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36201946)
When you’re ready, in your own time.

What do you think of this?

https://www.timesofisrael.com/livebl...2-sons-inside/


Do you think after maiming two children an IDF soldier would go and help himself to a coke?
Apologies, went on holiday…. Anyways…

It’s absolutely horrific and I unreservedly condemn the actions of Hamas. As I would hope you would do for the same. I don’t however feel it justifies Israel’s response in anyway shape or form

https://www.hrw.org/news/2015/07/19/...inian-children

Pierre 14-09-2025 18:06
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36202723)
Apologies, went on holiday…. Anyways…

It’s absolutely horrific and I unreservedly condemn the actions of Hamas. As I would hope you would do for the same. I don’t however feel it justifies Israel’s response in anyway shape or form

https://www.hrw.org/news/2015/07/19/...inian-children
No worries, I hope you had a great holiday, I’m not looking to reignite this discussion unless something materially significant happens.

mrmistoffelees 14-09-2025 18:15
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36202724)
No worries, I hope you had a great holiday, I’m not looking to reignite this discussion unless something materially significant happens.
Thank you I did. I do agree but wanted to give you the courtesy of a reply.

papa smurf 16-09-2025 08:41
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Israel has committed genocide in Gaza, says UN inquiry
Commission’s 72-page legal analysis cites examples including scale of killings, aid blockages and forced displacement


A UN commission of inquiry concluded on Tuesday that Israel had committed genocide in Gaza and that top Israeli officials including the prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, had incited these acts.

It cited examples of the scale of the killings, aid blockages, forced displacement and the destruction of a fertility clinic to back up its genocide finding, adding its voice to rights groups and others that have reached the same conclusion.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ays-un-inquiry

Carth 16-09-2025 09:36
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
The UN seem good at that, taking months to prepare and publish a written report that tells us what many can already see.

I suppose their next step is a harshly worded letter to Netanyahu telling him he's a naughty boy and won't get any supper :rolleyes:

tweetiepooh 16-09-2025 09:44
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
The UN only just supported the creation of the state of Israel in the first place, is it truly unbiased? That isn't to say that Israel isn't committing such acts though.
Yet what would the UN actually do if Israel were on the receiving end? Probably about the same.
What it does establish though is the possibility of action to be taken in the future. If found culpable then those giving orders in the Israeli government should be taken to task.

Pierre 16-09-2025 10:58
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tweetiepooh (Post 36202812)
The UN only just supported the creation of the state of Israel in the first place, is it truly unbiased? That isn't to say that Israel isn't committing such acts though.
Yet what would the UN actually do if Israel were on the receiving end? Probably about the same.
What it does establish though is the possibility of action to be taken in the future. If found culpable then those giving orders in the Israeli government should be taken to task.
Of course the UN is biased.

Oct 7th was a genocidal act.

1andrew1 16-09-2025 11:38
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36202815)
Of course the UN is biased.

Oct 7th was a genocidal act.
Anyone who criticises Netanyahu's actions is biased.

Sephiroth 16-09-2025 12:02
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tweetiepooh (Post 36202812)
The UN only just supported the creation of the state of Israel in the first place, is it truly unbiased? That isn't to say that Israel isn't committing such acts though.
Yet what would the UN actually do if Israel were on the receiving end? Probably about the same.
What it does establish though is the possibility of action to be taken in the future. If found culpable then those giving orders in the Israeli government should be taken to task.

Quote:
On 11 May 1949, the General Assembly by the requisite two-thirds majority approved the application to admit Israel to the UN by United Nations General Assembly Resolution 273. The vote in the General Assembly was 37 to 12, with 9 abstentions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel...%20abstentions.

But on the substantive point, Netanyahu is a bad egg and his eventual come uppance will be an interesting event.

1andrew1 19-09-2025 23:49
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
'Overhead' in Israel on 10 September. Netanyahu: "We've killed all the journalists in Gaza. Anymore within bombing distance?"
Quote:
'Israeli strikes' on Yemen newspaper offices 'mark deadliest attack on press in 16 years'

The 26 September newspaper is the official outlet of the Yemeni army, which is under the control of Houthi rebels in Sanaa.

Israeli strikes on newspaper offices in Yemen killed 31 journalists and media support workers, according to the outlet struck and the Committee to Protect Journalists (CPJ).

Nasser al Khadri, editor-in-chief of the publication 26 September, told the CPJ that the offices in Sanaa were hit on the afternoon of 10 September.

A child, who had accompanied a journalist to work, was among the dead, Mr al Khadri said, while 22 journalists were injured.

The reported attack by the Israel Defence Forces (IDF) marked the deadliest single strike on the press since 2009, according to the CPJ.

That year, 32 journalists were killed when a convoy was ambushed in the Maguindanao massacre in the Philippines.
https://news.sky.com/story/israeli-s...years-13434090

Sephiroth 21-09-2025 09:17
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Bearing in mind that Israel is under attack from Yemen, what would you have said if Britain had bombed Goebbels' press/propaganda office with him inside during WW2?

Carth 21-09-2025 09:49
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Same shit different day.

Bloke A tells bloke B to stop slapping him.
Bloke B carries on slapping.
Bloke A kicks 7 bells out of Bloke B
Bloke A gets World condemnation for being nasty.

1701-e 21-09-2025 09:57
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Bloke A tells bloke B to stop slapping him.
Bloke B carries on slapping.
Bloke A kicks seven bells out of anyone who happens to live near Bloke B
Bloke A gets World condemnation for being nasty.

Sephiroth 21-09-2025 10:03
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 

Bloke A tells bloke B to stop slapping him.
Bloke B carries on slapping.
Anyone living near Bloke B cheer him on.
Bloke A kicks seven bells out of anyone who happens to live near Bloke B
Bloke A gets World condemnation for being nasty.
__________________

Carth 21-09-2025 10:05
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Bloke A tells bloke B to stop slapping him.
Bloke B carries on slapping.
Bloke A kicks seven bells out of anyone who happens to live near Bloke B and supports him slapping Bloke A
Bloke A gets World condemnation for being nasty.

1andrew1 21-09-2025 11:49
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36203093)
Bearing in mind that Israel is under attack from Yemen, what would you have said if Britain had bombed Goebbels' press/propaganda office with him inside during WW2?
You need to follow international law and not target journalists.

---------- Post added at 11:49 ---------- Previous post was at 11:46 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36203095)
Same shit different day.

Bloke A tells bloke B to stop slapping him.
Bloke B carries on slapping.
Bloke A kicks 7 bells out of Bloke B
Bloke A gets World condemnation for being nasty.
I know 7 Bells as the name of a pub. It's never been a euphemism for killing 66,000 people.

Carth 21-09-2025 11:57
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36203104)
You need to follow international law and not target journalists.

---------- Post added at 11:49 ---------- Previous post was at 11:46 ----------


I know 7 Bells as the name of a pub. It's never been a euphemism for killing 66,000 people.
Maybe there's a pub somewhere named 'Final Warning' or 'Last Chance Saloon'

I won't bother searching but be my guest :p:

TheDaddy 21-09-2025 12:45
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36203104)
You need to follow international law and not target journalists.
and not get hot miked bragging about it or else the world will think there's a reason why you don't want journalists there reporting on what you're doing

Carth 21-09-2025 13:13
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
I've just (finally) looked at the link (Sky News) that Andrew posted.

I see nothing relating to 'overheard' or a hot mike situation.

I do see that it states "The 26 September newspaper is the official outlet of the Yemeni army, which is under the control of Houthi rebels in Sanaa."

Are they the ones throwing occasional missiles?

TheDaddy 21-09-2025 13:40
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36203111)
I've just (finally) looked at the link (Sky News) that Andrew posted.

I see nothing relating to 'overheard' or a hot mike situation.

I do see that it states "The 26 September newspaper is the official outlet of the Yemeni army, which is under the control of Houthi rebels in Sanaa."

Are they the ones throwing occasional missiles?
It was Gaza those remarks were overheard about and if you don't think they're being targeted talk to my nephew who knew literally dozens of them or just look on Wikipedia for journalists killed in gaza war, disturbing reading and indefensible

Paul 21-09-2025 13:41
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
I thought journalists were banned from Gaza anyway ?

papa smurf 21-09-2025 15:09
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36203114)
I thought journalists were banned from Gaza anyway ?
There are many Gazans reporting for Aljazeera a large number have been murdered by the IDF, Israel will not allow international scrutiny through journalists, which should sound alarm bells

---------- Post added at 15:09 ---------- Previous post was at 13:51 ----------

UK officially recognises Palestine as a state


https://news.sky.com/story/uk-offici...state-13435436


Sir Keir Starmer has announced the UK has officially recognised Palestine as a state.

"Today, to revive the hope of peace for the Palestinians and Israelis, and a two state solution, the United Kingdom formally recognises the State of Palestine," the prime minister said on X, alongside a longer video statement.

Sephiroth 21-09-2025 15:15
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36203115)
There are many Gazans reporting for Aljazeera a large number have been murdered by the IDF, Israel will not allow international scrutiny through journalists, which should sound alarm bells

---------- Post added at 15:09 ---------- Previous post was at 13:51 ----------

UK officially recognises Palestine as a state


https://news.sky.com/story/uk-offici...state-13435436


Sir Keir Starmer has announced the UK has officially recognised Palestine as a state.

"Today, to revive the hope of peace for the Palestinians and Israelis, and a two state solution, the United Kingdom formally recognises the State of Palestine," the prime minister said on X, alongside a longer video statement.
Virtue signalling without there being a kangaroo's fart of a chance that the gesture will bring peace any closer or the actualisation of a functional, democratic, Palestine.

We should be dealing with Israel as bad eggs not promoting their mortal enemy. Islam and Judaism are poor bedfellow.

thenry 21-09-2025 15:21
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Because the Jews questioned Moses. And didn't unreservedly follow the prophet.

The blind leading the blind. :no:

Sephiroth 21-09-2025 15:34
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by thenry (Post 36203118)
Because the Jews questioned Moses. And didn't unreservedly follow the prophet.

The blind leading the blind. :no:
You rather make my point. Infidels are for the chop (unless you get them first/next.

thenry 21-09-2025 15:45
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
A bunch of crackheads calling the shots what's the worse that could happen, people whom lie to your face :nutter:

Sephiroth 21-09-2025 15:52
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by thenry (Post 36203121)
A bunch of crackheads calling the shots what's the worse that could happen, people whom lie to your face :nutter:
The worst that could happen (apart from nuclear war) is that we, including Israel, could all be facing east in the not too distant future.

thenry 21-09-2025 15:57
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
I couldn't care less whether Russia wants to dominate the continent. As Trumbo would say... I'm surrounded by water. Set fire to the world.

Sephiroth 21-09-2025 16:01
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by thenry (Post 36203123)
I couldn't care less whether Russia wants to dominate the continent. As Trumbo would say... I'm surrounded by water. Set fire to the world.
I think you rather missed the main point!

TheDaddy 21-09-2025 17:40
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36203114)
I thought journalists were banned from Gaza anyway ?
Foreign ones are, local ones are targeted and killed

1andrew1 21-09-2025 19:18
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36203117)
Virtue signalling without there being a kangaroo's fart of a chance that the gesture will bring peace any closer or the actualisation of a functional, democratic, Palestine.

We should be dealing with Israel as bad eggs not promoting their mortal enemy. Islam and Judaism are poor bedfellow.
Not recognising Palestine hasn't exactly done wonders for the 65,000 people killed in Gaza post 7/10, nor released any of the hostages nor prevented the atrocities of 7/10.

Maybe it is time to try another approach, especially as Netanyahu seems impervious to advice from the IDF and overtures from his allies.

Sephiroth 21-09-2025 20:14
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36203135)
Not recognising Palestine hasn't exactly done wonders for the 65,000 people killed in Gaza post 7/10, nor released any of the hostages nor prevented the atrocities of 7/10.

Maybe it is time to try another approach, especially as Netanyahu seems impervious to advice from the IDF and overtures from his allies.
I see your logic - but is it possible? In a year's time, when Netanyahu is up for election, he'll either have eliminated Hamas or the next generation will be standing in the wings (very likely given the even worse bad egg - Iran). That's how he hopes to retain power - through the gratitude and admiration of the people.

Israelis know that they are past the point of no return with the Palestinian people. Israel's behaviour toward the West Bank people has made certain of that.

So, whoever wins the next Israeli GE, the government will be stuck with the logical consequences of Netanyahu's actions.

Given the penetration of Israeli settlements in the West Bank - some 200,000 people. you can see whey it's the point beyond no return.

The best that Israel could then do in those circumstances, I suggest, is to woo the Palestinians into chucking their lot in with Israel, then annexing the West Bank. I would expect the USA to play a part, given the real estate opportunities. This would require a breakthrough in realism for the Palestinians especially if they can be convinced of several uplift in living standards.

Why is all the above pie in the sky? There are 2+ million Palestinians who, if they become Israeli citizens, could disturb the balance of political power.

Thus - back to square one. Everyone being appalled at Israel with nothing to offer but scolding remarks and no solutions. I suppose that Israel could develop the West Bank, providing employment opportunity for the Palestinians and growth of wealth. If that's Netanyahu's intention, he needs to get them onside - so back to square one!

Paul 21-09-2025 21:36
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36203135)
Not recognising Palestine hasn't exactly done wonders for the 65,000 people killed in Gaza post 7/10, nor released any of the hostages nor prevented the atrocities of 7/10.
Do you really think it would have made any difference, or will make any difference now ?

Netanyahu is clearly a little unbalanced, and his fellow countrymen dont seem to care much.

Pierre 21-09-2025 22:15
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
https://news.sky.com/story/uk-offici...state-13435436

So we recognise a terrorist state………….

That’s all I have to say.

Today our Prime Minister recognised a terrorist state and legitimatise them.

Sephiroth 21-09-2025 22:23
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Just shows how shallow Starmer is.

Paul 21-09-2025 22:29
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36203144)
That’s all I have to say.
Thats a first, but probably wise considering the thin ice you're walking atm.

1andrew1 21-09-2025 23:10
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36203142)
Do you really think it would have made any difference, or will make any difference now ?

Netanyahu is clearly a little unbalanced, and his fellow countrymen dont seem to care much.
Only time will tell. As I said before, not recognising it hasn't worked out well for pretty much anyone.

---------- Post added at 23:10 ---------- Previous post was at 22:57 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36203139)
I see your logic - but is it possible? In a year's time, when Netanyahu is up for election, he'll either have eliminated Hamas or the next generation will be standing in the wings (very likely given the even worse bad egg - Iran). That's how he hopes to retain power - through the gratitude and admiration of the people.
You can't eliminate Hamas by force. The death, destruction and economic damage inflicted on Gaza will doubtless swell their numbers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36203139)
Israelis know that they are past the point of no return with the Palestinian people. Israel's behaviour toward the West Bank people has made certain of that.

So, whoever wins the next Israeli GE, the government will be stuck with the logical consequences of Netanyahu's actions.

Given the penetration of Israeli settlements in the West Bank - some 200,000 people. you can see whey [think - Ed] it's the point beyond no return.

The best that Israel could then do in those circumstances, I suggest, is to woo the Palestinians into chucking their lot in with Israel, then annexing the West Bank. I would expect the USA to play a part, given the real estate opportunities. This would require a breakthrough in realism for the Palestinians especially if they can be convinced of several uplift in living standards.

Why is all the above pie in the sky? There are 2+ million Palestinians who, if they become Israeli citizens, could disturb the balance of political power.

Thus - back to square one. Everyone being appalled at Israel with nothing to offer but scolding remarks and no solutions. I suppose that Israel could develop the West Bank, providing employment opportunity for the Palestinians and growth of wealth. If that's Netanyahu's intention, he needs to get them onside - so back to square one!
You rightly draw out the issue of a single-state solution giving the Palestinians quite a lot of influence in a new state which may not gone down well with some elements of the Israeli population. I don't know enough to comment on how it would land.

Peace in countries like Bosnia and Northern Ireland only came about through talks and solutions facilitated by outsiders. The logical country to take a tilt at this would be the USA. However, I view this as impractical under Trump given his very pro-Israel stance.

1andrew1 23-09-2025 11:45
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Interesting article from Sky News
Quote:
The French and British believe Israel is actively working against the possibility of a Palestinian state. Attacks on Palestinians, land seizures, the relentless pace of settlement construction is finishing off the chances of a two-state solution to the conflict, so time for unilateral action they believe.

The Israelis say they have already done so on 7 October and this move only rewards the wicked extremism of Hamas.

But the Netanyahu government has undeniably sought to divide and weaken the Palestinians and has always opposed a Palestinian state.

Israel still has the support of Donald Trump, but opinion polls suggest even in America public sentiment is moving against them. That shift will be hard to reverse.

More than three quarters of the UN's member nations now recognise a state of Palestine, four out of five of the security council's permanent members.

The move is hugely problematic. Where exactly is the state, what are its borders, will it now be held to account for its extremists, who exactly is its government?

But more and more countries believe it had to happen. That leaves Israel increasingly ostracised and for a small country in a difficult neighbourhood that is not a good place to be, however strong it is militarily.
https://news.sky.com/story/israel-is...to-be-13436492

Carth 23-09-2025 15:17
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
I'm just waiting for the Great Turnaround, when they all name Palestine a terrorist state when it all kicks off again . . . which it will.

Pierre 23-09-2025 18:13
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36203250)

Quote:
The French and British believe Israel is actively working against the possibility of a Palestinian state.
Why would Israel want a terrorist state?

1andrew1 23-09-2025 18:29
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36203295)
Why would Israel want a terrorist state?
Unfortunately, some voted for Netanyahu and that's what they've got till the next election.

Sephiroth 23-09-2025 18:33
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36203296)
Unfortunately, some voted for Netanyahu and that's what they've got till the next election.
Doesn't answer the question "why would Israel want a terrorist state?"

The West Bank would always be an "enemy state" while Iran is still in business.

1andrew1 23-09-2025 19:52
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36203297)
Doesn't answer the question "why would Israel want a terrorist state?"

The West Bank would always be an "enemy state" while Iran is still in business.
You would have to ask those who voted for Netanyahu that question.

Why Iran is to blame for settlers killing and evicting Palestinians in the West Bank is something you need to work harder on to convince.me.

Sephiroth 23-09-2025 20:32
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36203300)
You would have to ask those who voted for Netanyahu that question.

Why Iran is to blame for settlers killing and evicting Palestinians in the West Bank is something you need to work harder on to convince.me.
Your points are tangential to the question. I cannot imagine why you use the Iran case to deplore Israel's atrocious behaviour in the West Bank.

It's really quite simple (and on more than one front):

1. Iran has vowed to destroy Israel.

2. Hamas and Hezbollah are Iran's proxies and have murdered hundreds of Israelis.

3. In this atmosphere, Jews and Muslims in that region violently oppose it each to the extent of mutual hatred.

4. It follows, especially in the light of the Gaza business, that West Bank Palestinians would vote for Hamas or Hamas in disguise at the next election (which is well overdue).

5. The October 7th atrocity triggered Israel into what we've seen. It hasn't helped that Israel has deliberately (it seems) made life impossible for the 2 million Gazans. It also hasn't helped that Hamas haven't released all the hostages, thus prolonging the agony for the Gazans.

6. All of the above amount to madness should Palestine become a fully independent state. Indeed, the settlements that Israel is (brutally in some instances) laying down in the West Bank make an independent Palestine an impossibility.

If Netanhayu is displaced in the 2026 elections, the new government will have to face the facts, particularly as regards Iran - which is why Israel has reasonable relations with the UAE, Jordan, Egypt and (almost) Saudi Arabia.

Pierre 24-09-2025 07:40
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36203296)
Unfortunately, some voted for Netanyahu and that's what they've got till the next election.
I would think most Israelis would not want to be living adjacent a terrorist state, so it only stands to reason that Israel should actively working against the possibility of a Palestinian state.

1andrew1 24-09-2025 08:33
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36203316)
I would think most Israelis would not want to be living adjacent a terrorist state, so it only stands to reason that Israel should actively working against the possibility of a Palestinian state.
As a terrorist state, Israel has worked to take over as much of Palestine as it can get away with. The links between Hamas and Israel are interesting; it seems Netanyahu favours a divided Palestinian people over a safer Israel.

Pierre 24-09-2025 09:26
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36203317)
As a terrorist state, Israel has worked to take over as much of Palestine as it can get away with. The links between Hamas and Israel are interesting; it seems Netanyahu favours a divided Palestinian people over a safer Israel.
I disagree, wholeheartedly with the occupied territories in the west.

But Israel can’t take over Palestine as Palestine does not exist, I think you’re referring to Jordan. Israel could always give it back to Jordan.

Gaza is also not Palestine, it was given to the Arab population to administer but they have forfeited their claim to it, so Israel have taken it back, and will probably keep it, or they could give it back to Egypt, but Egypt have made it clear they don’t want it.

Sephiroth 24-09-2025 09:43
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36203317)
As a terrorist state, Israel has worked to take over as much of Palestine as it can get away with. The links between Hamas and Israel are interesting; it seems Netanyahu favours a divided Palestinian people over a safer Israel.
Is this just jumping on the bandwagon, Andrew, or a serious view that Israel is a terrorist state (like Iran e.g.)?

I suspect that Israel has taken a hard look at their prospects under a two state solution and didn't fancy their chances. However, reports of intimidation etc carried out by Israeli settlers in the West Bank are a far cry from Israel being a terrorist state.

We have to be realistic as to what the future would hold for Israel if a Palestinian state, armed by Iran, were to form in the West Bank.

Narrow thinking is not the answer.


---------- Post added at 09:43 ---------- Previous post was at 09:38 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36203319)
I disagree, wholeheartedly with the occupied territories in the west.

But Israel can’t take over Palestine as Palestine does not exist, I think you’re referring to Jordan. Israel could always give it back to Jordan.

Gaza is also not Palestine, it was given to the Arab population to administer but they have forfeited their claim to it, so Israel have taken it back, and will probably keep it, or they could give it back to Egypt, but Egypt have made it clear they don’t want it.
I knew someone fairly high up in the Israeli foreign ministry. He told me that Jordan, who themselves had annexed the West Bank (1950 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan..._the_West_Bank ). He told me that by 1988, when formal renunciation of Jordan's claim to the territory was made, quite simply, Jordan did not want it back.

Btw, the linked article is very interesting as it properly sets the scene for current problems in handling the West Bank.

tweetiepooh 24-09-2025 09:45
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
What Israel will never give up include Jerusalem and any point of military advantage (Golan).

1andrew1 24-09-2025 09:54
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36203322)
Is this just jumping on the bandwagon, Andrew, or a serious view that Israel is a terrorist state (like Iran e.g.)?

I suspect that Israel has taken a hard look at their prospects under a two state solution and didn't fancy their chances. However, reports of intimidation etc carried out by Israeli settlers in the West Bank are a far cry from Israel being a terrorist state.

We have to be realistic as to what the future would hold for Israel if a Palestinian state, armed by Iran, were to form in the West Bank.

Narrow thinking is not the answer.
I've not traditionally seen Israel as a terrorist state and there's a lot about the country I've admired. But it has changed and its activities over the last two years mean it warrants the label.

Netanyahu's really just focused on his own survival and not being held to account for his part in not preventing 7/10. And shooting and evicting people from their own houses in the West Bank is more than harassment.

No one is going to pretend any solution - one-state or two-state will be easy. But it's good that recognition by Western countries comes with Hamas being excluded.

Sephiroth 24-09-2025 10:00
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tweetiepooh (Post 36203324)
What Israel will never give up include Jerusalem and any point of military advantage (Golan).
Nothing wrong with that. The Arabs in 1956, 1967, 1972 etc should not have attacked Israel. That's what Israel's up against in this missile age.

---------- Post added at 10:00 ---------- Previous post was at 09:54 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36203327)
I've not traditionally seen Israel as a terrorist state and there's a lot about the country I've admired. But it has changed and its activities over the last two years mean it warrants the label.

Netanyahu's really just focused on his own survival and not being held to account for his part in not preventing 7/10. And shooting and evicting people from their own houses in the West Bank is more than harassment.

No one is going to pretend any solution - one-state or two-state will be easy. But it's good that recognition by Western countries comes with Hamas being excluded.
Quote:
I've not traditionally seen Israel as a terrorist state and there's a lot about the country I've admired. But it has changed and its activities over the last two years mean it warrants the label.
That's a disgraceful thing to say. Remember October 7th - the trigger for what's happening now.

Quote:
Netanyahu's really just focused on his own survival and not being held to account for his part in not preventing 7/10. And shooting and evicting people from their own houses in the West Bank is more than harassment.
Agreed on Netanyahu focusing on self-survival. But how the hell could he have prevented 7/10? The shooting/evictions you mentioned are indeed a stain on Netanyahu's government but it doesn't brand Israel as a terrorist state; that's going too far.

Hugh 24-09-2025 10:35
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36203328)
Nothing wrong with that. The Arabs in 1956, 1967, 1972 etc should not have attacked Israel. That's what Israel's up against in this missile age.

---------- Post added at 10:00 ---------- Previous post was at 09:54 ----------





That's a disgraceful thing to say. Remember October 7th - the trigger for what's happening now.



Agreed on Netanyahu focusing on self-survival. But how the hell could he have prevented 7/10? The shooting/evictions you mentioned are indeed a stain on Netanyahu's government but it doesn't brand Israel as a terrorist state; that's going too far.

https://www.npr.org/2025/03/05/nx-s1...tober-7-attack




Quote:
Hamas code-named it The Promise of Judgement Day. As early as 2018, Israel caught wind of Hamas' battle plan to invade Israel from neighboring Gaza. But Israel's domestic intelligence agency did not consider it a realistic threat.


That is the main conclusion of an investigation by Israel's Shin Bet agency into the colossal security failure of the Hamas-led attack on Oct. 7, 2023. It was the single deadliest day in Israeli history, when thousands of Palestinian attackers killed nearly 1,200 people and took 251 people hostage.
This is the first inquiry by Israel's main agency tasked with spying on Hamas into why Israel failed to detect and prevent the attack, following another inquiry by Israel's military. The Shin Bet hinted at failures by Israel's political leadership to carry out the agency's desire to assassinate senior Hamas leaders, and blamed Israeli policies of propping up Hamas rule in Gaza to buy calm on its border.

Sephiroth 24-09-2025 11:05
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
@Hugh

I suppose better intelligence could have avoided 7/10 - as you say. But it didn't and that doesn't make Israel a terrorist state, which is what Andrew has alleged.

Pierre 24-09-2025 11:18
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36203336)
Top level victim blaming.

Hugh 24-09-2025 11:55
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36203339)
Top level victim blaming.
What, blaming themselves?

From the link in the quoted article

https://www.npr.org/2025/02/28/nx-s1-5312841/israel-military-oct-7-investigation-hamas-gaza

Quote:
Israeli military cites 'fundamental misunderstanding' of Hamas ahead of Oct. 7 attack

Israel's military said "glaring" intelligence failures left it unable to protect Israeli citizens on Oct. 7, 2023, when Hamas-led militants attacked the country, killing nearly 1,200 people and taking 251 hostage, according to an official report on Israel's response to the attack.

The investigation — which has not fully been made public — details a decades-long "fundamental misunderstanding" of Hamas, according to an English summary of the findings provided to NPR by the military. It said that this allowed senior Israeli officers to underestimate the militant group's capabilities and intentions leading up to the attack.

The military operated on an approach "based on the (incorrect) assumption that Hamas was neither interested nor preparing for a large-scale war," according to the summary. It stated that Israeli intelligence officials thought the group was more interested in governing Gaza, which it seized control of from the Palestinian Authority in 2007, than fighting Israel.

"In hindsight, Hamas systematically employed deception tactics that reinforced this perception. In retrospect, this was a grave mistake," it said...

...The army's chief of staff, Lt. Gen. Herzi Halevi, said he took responsibility for the army's failures.

"I was the commander of the military on October 7th, and I have my own responsibility. I also carry the weight of all your responsibility — that, too, I see as mine," he said. Halevi is set to step down next week, after announcing his resignation in January.

1andrew1 24-09-2025 14:04
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36203337)
@Hugh

I suppose better intelligence could have avoided 7/10 - as you say. But it didn't and that doesn't make Israel a terrorist state, which is what Andrew has alleged.
I've not alleged that poor intelligence has made Israel a terrorist state. Its actions in Gaza and bombing in Qatar make it a terrorist state and one which is increasingly at odds with the rest of the World due to this. It's sad because the country has developed so well for a long time.

Sephiroth 24-09-2025 14:46
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36203347)
I've not alleged that poor intelligence has made Israel a terrorist state. Its actions in Gaza and bombing in Qatar make it a terrorist state and one which is increasingly at odds with the rest of the World due to this. It's sad because the country has developed so well for a long time.
I disagree. You've made an extension too far. Yemen is a terrorist state; Iran is a terrorist state. Israel is being too brutal in Gaza and, being a democracy, is not a terrorist state.

Btw, is Russia a terrorist state?

1andrew1 24-09-2025 15:25
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36203348)
I disagree. You've made an extension too far. Yemen is a terrorist state; Iran is a terrorist state. Israel is being too brutal in Gaza and, being a democracy, is not a terrorist state.

Your threshold for being a terrorist state also seems to require the country to be majority Muslim. Mine is based on the country's actions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36203348)
Btw, is Russia a terrorist state?
You only have to look at the Salisbury poisonings to know that's a big yes from me.

Sephiroth 24-09-2025 15:40
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36203349)
[/COLOR]
Your threshold for being a terrorist state also seems to require the country to be majority Muslim. Mine is based on the country's actions.

You only have to look at the Salisbury poisonings to know that's a big yes from me.
That's also a supposition too far on your part. My basis of assessment is pure fact - actions by those actors that everybody knows about.

Israel is not a terrorist state. It's government is behaving badly on Gaza with respect to the civilian population. The terrorists are the 7/10 invaders and the missile launchers in Gaza, Yemen, Lebanon - all supplied and funded by Iran.

mrmistoffelees 24-09-2025 20:38
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36203347)
I've not alleged that poor intelligence has made Israel a terrorist state. Its actions in Gaza and bombing in Qatar make it a terrorist state and one which is increasingly at odds with the rest of the World due to this. It's sad because the country has developed so well for a long time.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce3yz939qnpo.amp

I’d wager this has Israel’s sticky fingers all over it

Sephiroth 24-09-2025 20:49
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36203358)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce3yz939qnpo.amp

I’d wager this has Israel’s sticky fingers all over it

The Israeli Foreign Ministry said (in above link):

Quote:
If the flotilla participants' genuine wish is to deliver humanitarian aid rather than serve Hamas, Israel calls on the vessels to dock at the Ashkelon Marina and unload the aid there, from where it will be transferred promptly in a co-ordinated manner to the Gaza Strip

mrmistoffelees 24-09-2025 20:57
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36203359)

The Israeli Foreign Ministry said (in above link):
Indeed as they’ve done such a sterling job so far of ensuring aid gets in and ensures there is no famine….

From the above link also

On Monday, the Israeli foreign ministry alleged that the flotilla was "organised by Hamas"

Yep, Hamas have recruited Greta to lead an undercover infiltration

Sephiroth 24-09-2025 21:42
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36203360)
Indeed as they’ve done such a sterling job so far of ensuring aid gets in and ensures there is no famine….

From the above link also

On Monday, the Israeli foreign ministry alleged that the flotilla was "organised by Hamas"

Yep, Hamas have recruited Greta to lead an undercover infiltration
Greta is Hamas' useful idiot.

1andrew1 24-09-2025 22:37
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36203351)
That's also a supposition too far on your part. My basis of assessment is pure fact - actions by those actors that everybody knows about.

Israel is not a terrorist state. It's government is behaving badly on Gaza with respect to the civilian population. The terrorists are the 7/10 invaders and the missile launchers in Gaza, Yemen, Lebanon - all supplied and funded by Iran.
I'm afraid your fear of Islam taking over the UK subconsciously seems to dullen the evident sad logic that repeatedly demonstrates that Israel under Netanyahu is a terrorist state.

mrmistoffelees has posted something that looks like yet more Israel state-sponsored terrorism. If Israel was behind it, could you now adopt an evidence-based approach and acknowledge that Israel is a terrorist state?

mrmistoffelees 24-09-2025 22:43
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36203363)
I'm afraid your fear of Islam taking over the UK subconsciously seems to dullen the evident sad logic that repeatedly demonstrates that Israel under Netanyahu is a terrorist state.

mrmistoffelees has posted something that looks like yet more Israel state-sponsored terrorism. If Israel was behind it, could you now adopt an evidence-based approach and acknowledge that Israel is a terrorist state?
Oh and we can add Tunisia into the mix as well

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...d-port-tunisia

The problem with pitching this arguement to Sephi is that in his belief that Muslims are trying to take over the world he sees the Israeli military as the perfect proxy for western nations. Somewhere in this thread iirc it’s stated about ‘looking east’ (or somilar)

Carth 25-09-2025 02:09
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
"The greatest trick the devil ever pulled"

From a brilliant movie too, although hard to watch it twice once you know the ending.

Sephiroth 25-09-2025 09:10
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36203364)
Oh and we can add Tunisia into the mix as well

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...d-port-tunisia

The problem with pitching this arguement to Sephi is that in his belief that Muslims are trying to take over the world he sees the Israeli military as the perfect proxy for western nations. Somewhere in this thread iirc it’s stated about ‘looking east’ (or somilar)
There's plenty of evidence that they are. Starting small and growing organically. Yep - we'll all be facing east in a few decades.

mrmistoffelees 25-09-2025 09:41
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36203377)
There's plenty of evidence that they are. Starting small and growing organically. Yep - we'll all be facing east in a few decades.
Ah so you see Israel as the spearhead of your wish for a modern day reenactment of the crusades.

Good to know

Sephiroth 25-09-2025 11:02
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36203382)
Ah so you see Israel as the spearhead of your wish for a modern day reenactment of the crusades.

Good to know
No. You see me as seeing Israel as the spearhead for whatever nonsense you said.

Israel is over-defending itself.

1andrew1 25-09-2025 12:00
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36203388)
Israel is over-defending itself.
Do you think Russia and Iran are over-defending themselves too?

Sephiroth 25-09-2025 12:14
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36203390)
Do you think Russia and Iran are over-defending themselves too?
Did you pull that out of the blue? Iran is the bad actor behind Middle East terrorism which has resulted in Israel's attack on Gaza.

Russia doesn't come into the Middle East picture, being a regional terrorist in Europe.

Hugh 25-09-2025 12:36
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
1 Attachment(s)
https://www.ispionline.it/en/publica...-region-201095

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...0&d=1758799898

Quote:
Libya is Russia’s gateway for Africa

“While Russia maintains a reduced footprint in Syria, its strategic horizon has shifted to Africa.

In this context, Moscow’s support for Khalifa Haftar’s Libyan Arab Armed Forces (LAAF) is not about allegiance but leverage – securing a foothold in the Mediterranean, embedding itself in Libya’s economy, and extending its reach into the Sahel.

Wagner mercenaries and Russian warplanes have bolstered Haftar, yet his reliance on Moscow underscores his role as a tool rather than a partner.

Russia is not simply filling a vacuum; it is shaping the battlespace, exploiting fragmentation and European inertia to entrench itself. The West remains reactive, missing the larger shift. Libya is not an endpoint but a launchpad. Moscow is not retreating. It is expanding.”

Carth 25-09-2025 15:24
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
I guess they tried selling weapons to the USA and European Countries but they said no thanks. China probably weren't interested either.

Gotta make a rouble or two somehow, seeing as nobody (hahaha) is buying their oil/gas.

1andrew1 25-09-2025 16:18
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Spain and Italy to protect aid to Gaza.
Quote:
Spain to join Italy in sending warships to protect Gaza aid flotilla

As the war in Gaza and the mounting humanitarian crisis there dominates the UN General Assembly, Spain and Italy are sending warships to protect a flotilla carrying vital aid and campaigners like Greta Thunberg, which is trying to break the Israeli sea blockade.

Italy's defence minister Guido Crosetto announced this morning he would send a second frigate to escort the 52 civilian boats of the Global Sumud Flotilla (GSF) after organisers said they had been targeted by drones off Greece this week.

The GSF said several boats reported explosions and unidentified objects being dropped, accusing Israel of a "dangerous escalation".

Speaking yesterday, Crosetto expressed "the strongest condemnation" of the "attack" on the flotilla using "drones by currently unidentified perpetrators".

Pedro Sanchez, the Spanish prime minister, said a naval vessel would be dispatched today to assist the flotilla if necessary.
https://news.sky.com/story/un-latest...raine-13435340

Sephiroth 25-09-2025 16:24
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
The so-called flotilla is made up of a bunch of trouble-makers. Percussion fireworks dropped on them from drones is about right.

1andrew1 25-09-2025 16:32
Re: Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36203409)
The so-called flotilla is made up of a bunch of trouble-makers. Percussion fireworks dropped on them from drones is about right.
Why so-called? It is a flotilla.


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