Re: Coronavirus
 

That however, was not his question.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I've needed hospital services twice so far this year, and Mrs P has once. We've both been dealt with quickly, no apps required.

I was going to go private for one of them, but the NHS managed to get me in quicker than I could arrange it via BUPA.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Absolutely right - I had a knee-jerk response to (what I inferred was) an implicit assumption that anyone over 65 was IT-illiterate.

Apologies to Mr K.

Re: Coronavirus
 

About 10 days ago wife felt poorly, negative LFT. Last Sunday still poorly positive LFT, I tested negative. Our daughter went to stay with friend so she didn't miss college.
Yesterday both wife and I tested negative. Daughter came home. Today she tested positive (but she had been out with friends and at college all week).


All good fun. She has a small stash of tests.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Nine 'new' symptoms added to covid list ;
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-60982070

* Shortness of breath
* Feeling tired or exhausted
* Aching body
* Headache
* Sore throat
* Blocked or runny nose
* Loss of appetite
* Diarrhoea
* Feeling sick or being sick

So basically everything most people get every winter. :rolleyes:

Re: Coronavirus
 

The first three could be old age.

Re: Coronavirus
 

what do you mean 'could be'? :D

Re: Coronavirus
 

Exactly, any excuse for the skivers to take time off, just blame everything on Covid.:mad:

Re: Coronavirus
 

Would you prefer they didn't give you correct information? Shame it's two years too late.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I would prefer they dont give useless information.

What difference would it have made two years ago, based on that list people "could" have had covid for the last 1000+ years.

Re: Coronavirus
 

People would have got tested and self-isolated instead of just thinking "I've got a cold" and carrying on their lives as normal.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Well, to be honest mass testing wasn't available really until about Autumn 2020, maybe even later really with actual access when desired to LFTs and also to PCR tests, So 2 years ago they were obviously only testing hospital admissions.


The issue is that even when they're saying it's a cough/fever/loss of taste (and not all three) is that those symptoms are pretty nonspecific and with varying severity or even infections with no symptoms at all. Even at the start of the pandemic we had some football players testing positive and as they were young and healthy usually they were saying it wasn't any more severe than a cold. But with some obviously it can still progress to more severe illness (as can other respiratory viruses).


The issue with that new list is, yes, they are symptoms people who test positive have had. But differential diagnosis with those is even more impossible without a test to confirm and you can no longer generally get these (probably a good thing in the long term even if that is maybe a little soon). Someone who presents with diarrhoea, stomach pains, being sick... OK so they could have covid but they are probably more likely to have food poisoning or norovirus or something like that. It's now basically a list of "feeling ill".

Re: Coronavirus
 

Somehow I doubt that, even if easy/mass testing had been available, which it wasnt.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

Also, if mass testing had been available, which it wasn't quite, then when Alpha hit the government fear factor wouldn't have been able to persuade nigh-on 60 million people that they were walking murderers with the "act as though you have the virus" rhetoric. When taking a LFT would nigh-on show that you didn't.

Re: Coronavirus
 

The irony of that post accusing the Government of rhetoric, when it uses terms like "walking murderers"… ;)

Re: Coronavirus
 

Tesco and Lidl no longer offer free hand sanitiser or sprays to disinfect the trolley handles at the entrance to its stores.

I only saw 3 other people wearing masks in Tesco, and I was the only one masked in Lidl. Schoolkids coughing and sneezing in Lidl, so I left and came back later, armed with my bottle of soapy water.

Re: Coronavirus
 

My god having to take responsibility for your own health . What is the world coming to . I am sure if you told dippy he would get a new law passed :D

Re: Coronavirus
 

There were only about 50-60% wearing masks in the shops in Glasgow last weekend and they’re still legally required until 18 April. I’m not sure why you’re even bothering to check what’s happening around you in your neck of the woods - after 2 years, I don’t think many people have an appetite to do any more than they have to (and in Scotland the appetite is clearly to do less).

If it causes a particular issue for you, you’re going to have to just stick to quiet periods to do your shopping.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Maybe you should consider online deliveries, Taf.

---------- Post added at 19:54 ---------- Previous post was at 19:48 ----------

I think we should stop agonising over this and get on with our lives. If we are feeling ill and contagious, we all know what to do. No need to keep testing every five minutes. We are turning into a nation of hypochondriacs.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Spot on, OB.

Re: Coronavirus
 

If you remember back to Dec 2020/Jan 2021, when they started coming out with the "act like you have the virus" rhetoric, that's exactly what they were saying. Their playbook not mine ;)

Re: Coronavirus
 

It’s a huge leap from "please be considerate towards others, especially those with vulnerabilities" to "walking murderers"…

Re: Coronavirus
 

I think you are using a definition of "exactly" that dictionary compilers have yet to be acquainted with. ;)

Re: Coronavirus
 

Oh, Hugh, you are so picky. :D:D

Re: Coronavirus
 

So the talk and messaging to people about "if you break lockdown it could kill your granny" was a huge leap?



They've always been clear the rules were to save lives and so the other side of that coin is without sticking to them you were potentially costing lives...


We know people don't often react as well to the "use your common sense" line as opposed to "you must stay at home except for ..." which is exactly why they decided to engage with psychologists to scare people into restrictions (which they now retrospectively say wasn't needed and was a bad thing) and the whole "it could cost lives if you don't" messaging was definitely a part of it.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Murder is all about malice and the intent to kill though, not about negligence. There's a huge difference.

Re: Coronavirus
 

But that’s exactly what they were implying. If you break lockdown, you know what will happen to granny.

You guys are pulling at hairs.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Not really. Let me explain my thinking.

If you had Covid and went to granny's house with the intention of infecting her and she dies, that could be construed as murder.

If you felt unwell but went out to get a pint of milk without thinking and gave someone in the corner shop Covid and they died, that could not be construed as murder.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

One the government of all parties would be very happy if all the population died before reaching pensionable age . As would all insurance companies. Old age is only good business wise for private service providers .
Two the whole message was about keeping people out of hospital ,therefore was about saving money for the state :shocked:

Re: Coronavirus
 

I think quite quickly after COVID started we discovered it doesn't really survive long, if at all, on surfaces. Maybe hands because of how constant they can be within range of our mouths but otherwise the disinfected surfaces was more about security theatre - making people feel safe - than actually stopping the spread.

Almost non-existent in London. People stopped wearing masks even when they were a requirement of TFL. It's just done now.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I think a fair number chose not to comply were exempt from wearing one when they decided to bring them back in for Omicron, which initially was just shops and PT but then extended to basically all indoor settings, but had made little apparent difference before, and cases still went up with them on.


The evidence is somewhat weak because the theory behind it assumes the virus particles are large enough to be trapped in the mask.


Also with the number who wear them but don't clean them, reuse disposable masks, don't take them off properly, don't wash/sanitise hands when using the mask, it kind of almost negates the benefit in these instances.


Let's be fair a large amount of the mask hype is visual and fear, more theatre really. It is much better testing and staying home if you're ill but the first isn't really an option now either.


It's high time we get back to normal, cases, hospitalisations and deaths aren't causing people to die on hospital corridor trolleys and stuff like we were led to believe could happen at the start (and which was a tangible fear if we did nothing because italy). Now we have vaccines, therapeutics and more understanding how to treat and prevent it, it's much different.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Yes, I think the biggest thing is people have had some exposure to the virus either from the vaccine or previous infection so it is a different world.

Re: Coronavirus
 

With the Downing Street parties and Ukraine holding the headlines, our eyes are off the ball concerning UK covid-19 deaths.

So I suppose we "just have to live with it" and ignore the rising deaths, just as we do with 'flu.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Our eyes aren’t “off the ball” the only difference is that the media aren’t leading with it and sensationalising it.

And yes, we have to live it. Vaccine’s are available to anyone in this country that wants one.

Re: Coronavirus
 

7-day daily average is now 350, equal to 127,000 per year. You can forget the new case figures. Since free testing was pulled, most people who have Covid will not be testing and therefore not registering the result with the authorities.

We need to remain vigilant especially as the 3rd booster efficacy is now waning.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I am, I’m always looking behind me, checking around corners, handing out flyers etc.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Bless

Re: Coronavirus
 

Bless you too, that’s so sweet.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I'm still doing my bit and offering tin foil hats to those wearing FFP2s in the street...

Re: Coronavirus
 

Well, you do have a very large collection of them… ;)

Re: Coronavirus
 

Discharging hospital patients to care homes 'unlawful'.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-61227709

Re: Coronavirus
 

I'm sure it's not "protective ring" Matts fault though, definitely the care home staff / public / Public Health England and the NHS at fault. And he definitely wasn't warned about the problem on multiple occasions :rolleyes:

Re: Coronavirus
 

Link for Coronavirus Statistics updated daily.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Re: Coronavirus
 

BREAKING: An NBC News tally confirms over one million Covid-19 deaths in the U.S. since the start of the pandemic.

Re: Coronavirus
 

The UK's daily Covid statistics were axed today as the country moves forward in the pandemic.

The UK Health Security Agency (UKHSA) will now only publish Britain-wide updates twice a week, on Monday and Thursday.

---------- Post added at 19:51 ---------- Previous post was at 19:50 ----------

Except on weekends and Bank Holidays. And now just twice a week.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Numbers from the start of the pandemic.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Sorry…….Corona what?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

Landed in Tenerife yesterday, not much sigh of any pandemic here, a small number of mask wearers, maybe about 2-3%.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Lovely job, have great time. I love Tenerife, been there about 6-7 times. Costa Adeje my go to area.

I even proposed to Mrs Pierre there.

Re: Coronavirus
 

It's nice the world is opening up again. Been abroad a couple of times since 'the event' passed. Although nothing beats being in a normal pub without a mask or having to order to the table. Jus

Re: Coronavirus
 

Absolutely agree, it is so great things are finally going back some sort of normal. That said, I did like the table service in pubs and still use the ordering app in my local Wetherspoons ('cos I am classy like that)

Re: Coronavirus
 

On Sunday my dad had his 4th jab, I asked about me getting one as I live with him.

They said I should get it 6 months after my last jab

Re: Coronavirus
 

Agree on all points and confess I had the 'Spoons app well before lockdown.

I spoke to one landlord in a free house in Kent recently who said he did 10 miles walking every day when it was table service. One small pub in outer London I went into last year seemed to be doing a better trade with table service as the bar maid remembered everyone's drinks and went round the tables offering to bring the next round over when people's glasses were about half-full!

Re: Coronavirus
 

I'm in Costa Adeje :Sun:

The 2-3% of masks was just in the airport, we were out and about yesterday and its practically 0%, you see one now and then. :)

Re: Coronavirus
 

TBH You rarely see masks in London now. Tends to be tourists.

Re: Coronavirus
 

You see the odd snowflake here walking down the street in one but yeah. Barely anyone is wearing them.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Your "snowflake" may be someone who’s clinically vulnerable, or caring for someone who is clinically vulnerable…

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/corona...-at-high-risk/

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...at-higher-risk

Re: Coronavirus
 

Yeah, no issue if other people want to wear masks. Just glad that I no longer have to do so.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Which is not exactly something new, they have always existed, long before they started with wearing masks. ;)

Re: Coronavirus
 

However, COVID helped us learn that wearing masks can reduce the risk to the clinically vulnerable.

Re: Coronavirus
 

The risk to the clinically vulnerable should have already been significantly reduced with them having the vaccines.

Re: Coronavirus
 

All fair points but let's not forget that the primary clinical function of mask wearing (if this is true) is to catch virus coming out of the mask wearer and not to actually protect them from others (though this effect may be there to a lesser degree).


Of course, this does work best if people who continue to do this have good masks and use them properly i.e. disposable masks being single use (throw it away when you take it off) and work around the nose and mouth. Not wearing them outdoors especially when it's raining because a wet mask doesn't work... All things which you see people who are still wearing masks doing.


Respiratory viruses and CEV people existed before covid and before we started wearing masks. For the relatively small amount of people in this category, it's not really reasonable to suggest generally wearing one, even though this means that you don't know that the person sat next to you at the theatre or in the queue behind you for the checkout isn't CEV, and that you can't really take precautions for them.


It'd be interesting to see why those who are still wearing masks (in general, such as in shops, in the street, sat at bus stops, as opposed to those in healthcare settings or protecting CEV people who they are actively caring for) are still doing so, I would guess a fair amount of them probably think that it stops them from getting covid, or that they are still scared to go out without one because of the government messaging in the past, or something along those lines. Because if you think about it, aside from the possibility of asymptomatic infection, there isn't really a great deal of point in people who are not ill wearing anything to protect them from spreading a virus, and even then thinking that a piece of cloth as opposed to a KN95 or FFP2 mask would have any discernible effect at all, or at very most a minor one. And really, the best advice to those people is to stay home until you're better. Even if they have a cold and not covid for example, that is still unpleasant for most people and might be severe for those with other conditions.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Well, at least that was what was claimed. The masks most people use are not particularly effective. If we really wanted people to wear masks to stop the virus spreading rather than just to make people feel safer, we would have been required to wear proper surgical masks.

Re: Coronavirus
 

You are incorrect. Use of N95/FFP2 masks significantly reduces the risk of infection to the mask wearer - see: https://www.mpg.de/17916867/coronavi...isk-protection. You are conflating the (incorrect) choice of mask type with the purpose of wearing one.

If you want to mitigate the risk of catching Covid while infections levels are still high then wear a mask but wear the right type. It is a personal choice after all. I personally do not wear one when out unless I visit higher risk locations but I have no problem with others wearing one.

I suppose there are weirdos out there who get kicks for insulting people which may choose to wear one but I'd hope most of us are more tolerant.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Did it occur to you that they might have it? Poxy snowflakes, trying to save you from a disease that's killed millions worldwide, what's wrong with these people :spin:

Re: Coronavirus
 

Which is of course not mutually exclusive with mask wearing. Risk can be even further reduced with both.

---------- Post added at 13:22 ---------- Previous post was at 13:20 ----------

The modern parlance is “mild symptoms”. Asymptomatic infection was widely discredited by the human challenge trials in which 16 of 18 went on to develop symptoms.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Then they should be at home, recovering, like any ill person.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Maybe they're not ill and are under no obligation to do anything anymore

Re: Coronavirus
 

Indeed but the onus is on the individual or the individual's guardians/carers to manage their risk and to protect themselves against that risk. Rather than mandating others to do it for them.

Where've you been?

Re: Coronavirus
 

If they're not ill, they dont need to wear a mask.
Maybe they see fluffy pink elephants when they open their eyes.
Maybe you are just arguing/trolling for the sake of it.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

Maybe you are! You are aware you can be infected without being ill. I'd wear one if I thought I had been exposed and there was any chance I could infect others

Re: Coronavirus
 

No it can’t.

Masks don’t stop you getting covid from an infected person including when they too, are wearing a mask. I’ve posted many times, I work in health care industry, I’ve caught covid 4 times, I’m jabbed and still wear masks. I’ve still caught covid. They don’t stop you catching it.

Re: Coronavirus
 

They are meant to and do reduce the particles that come out of an infected persons mouth from going any distance though, which is the point of them.

Re: Coronavirus
 

While I'm sure anecdotally there's examples of people mask wearing and catching it the overwhelming evidence is that it reduces the chances.

In extremely high risk settings this is more than offset by exposure daily, perhaps to multiple people with COVID and the weak guidance not mandating N95 or others in healthcare settings.

For the average person most likely to encounter incidental exposure - on public transport, or in shops - the marginal gains add up.

Re: Coronavirus
 

This picture helps explain mask wearing simply

Re: Coronavirus
 

My dad had his spring booster last Sunday, while there I asked about myself as I live with him, they said I should, but only after 6 months.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Some good news
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-61436454

Re: Coronavirus
 

If they had it, they shouldn't have gone out in the first place. Coronavirus was always highly infectious, and omicron is more infectious than the earlier strands. When you see people wearing their gappy masks, and many wearing them under their noses, a highly infectious virus will not be contained.

We are kidding ourselves about the effectiveness of masks. They are two flimsy and badly designed to be effective.

Re: Coronavirus
 

This is the thing. The cloth and paper face masks will have a minimal effect and there will probably be an added behaviour effect too, such as people keeping apart, being reminded there's a virus by seeing everyone wearing masks, not going out if it's not necessary or if they're feeling ill, etc etc.



But the point is that they are badly used and that is partially down to the messaging which seems to have got out to some people as "if you cover your face it stops covid" or "if you wear a mask all the time it stops you getting covid" without giving any thought to selecting a mask, how to use it, how to store it, how to wear it etc.


The key point which gets lost in messaging about masks is that they are single use. Once you have put that mask on, it is contaminated for future use, and when you take it off it needs to be washed if it's washable or thrown away if it isn't and you put a clean mask on the time after. And to avoid transferring contamination between the mask and your hands (and then everything else they touch) you need to sanitise or preferably wash your hands before putting the mask on and after taking it off. Very few people did this properly.


The effectiveness of the KN95 and FFP2 as methods of preventing the virus spreading is a lot higher than with other masks but most people weren't wearing those as the FFP2s are both expensive and single use. And even in countries where they were strict about masks and type of masks worn such as in Germany, they still got spikes of the virus same as we did, which leads to the conclusion that whilst it may have potentially blunted the spike, it ultimately didn't stop it. What did was a combination of the vaccine and infection from a variant which generally isn't as lethal when people get it.


People who have an infectious disease should stay at home if they possibly can. Because them wearing that paper mask which they already worn for the last six months walking in the open air isn't going to have much effect on anything really.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Except people are under no obligation not to go out anymore but you carry on preaching

Re: Coronavirus
 

If you are going to wear a mask wear it correctly.Not just under your nose or even worse under your chin.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Well, I know that, obviously. But that doesn't take away the fact that if you know you have a nasty, contageous virus, you should stay indoors and not spread it to everyone else. We don't need laws and government dictats to make that happen - it's common sense.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

How does anyone know without testing? What financial support is in place for those who have to isolate under your banner of "common sense"?

They don't.
None.

Thus completely unworkable.

As for Government dictats why is Boris on the front of the Daily Mail telling "millions" to get back to the office? I presume you oppose this call - it's for people and businesses to decide how they best work. Freedom, innit?

Re: Coronavirus
 

The difficulty with covid is that unlike flu, for example, it doesn’t reliably cause nasty cold-like symptoms in everyone. It’s all very well telling people to stay home if they feel unwell, but what really makes covid spread is the large number of people who are completely, or substantially, asymptomatic.

That said, any symptomatic respiratory viral infection is unpleasant and anyone with such symptoms ought to be keeping their distance from other people. The cold and flu remedy manufacturers have done society no favours in this regard, as their advertising has for decades promoted the idea that the best approach is to deal with the symptoms and then carry on as normal.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Now we know you're a wum, we couldn't get people to stay at home or wear a mask when it was legally mandated but now you think it's going to happen when there is no testing, no financial support and in a lot of cases no way of knowing if you have it because of common sense :spin:

Re: Coronavirus
 

Well, if that’s the best they can do, it’s a pretty piss poor show, if you ask me.

---------- Post added at 20:30 ---------- Previous post was at 20:29 ----------

There’s a big difference between colds and Covid. A better comparison is flu.

---------- Post added at 20:35 ---------- Previous post was at 20:30 ----------

The government introduced the panic, and now they have to defuse it.

I think most people are intelligent enough to know when they have Covid-like symptoms, and with the government’s continuation of the 28-day rule for requiring a medical certificate for sickness absence, there is no excuse to go out there infecting everyone else.

Of course people should go back to the office. What’s stopping them?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Not for everyone.

One of my daughters had a bit of a cold (or so she thought).
She did a test (work asked her to, and provided the test). It was positive.

She had nothing more than mild cold symptoms for a couple of days, and then was fine.

Everyone in my house has had it, except me, I seem to be immune, despite being sounded by the infected multiple times !

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

Fundamentally nothing, but I know of plenty of companies who, deciding on how to cut costs during the pandemic (not that some people need a reason) have opted to reduce office space and in some cases remove whole offices, meaning the desk capacity is no longer sufficient to accommodate if every single office worker wanted to come in on a particular day.


Offices are becoming hot-desks which has downsides for storing kit, ergonomics, etc etc.



Boris can say what he likes, but they ushered it in (and were on about it pre-covid); flexible/hybrid working is here to stay, and the benefits in travelling times help the environment too, if someone doesn't have to travel any distance into work that's less traffic and less pollution, when the job can be done sufficiently from home. Doing this also makes it easier for those who can't of course.


I think that a fair amount of office workers will still (semi-permanently) be going into the office some days a week, maybe 2 or 3, and maybe when certain meetings take place, doing the rest from home, where this previously was five. The pandemic has shown most of us can do this. Personally I feel I work better from home as opposed to a busier, noisier office, it's quieter.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

True point, but I don't have/want smellies so that doesn't really affect me

Re: Coronavirus
 

The pandemic introduced the panic on a global scale, I’m not sure the current government have the competence to introduce panic.

That is only helpful for anyone getting sick pay and ignores the attendance management policies of many companies that - if you got infected twice a year and took a week off - would penalise “common sense”.

Efficiency?

I’m surprised that give your supposed love of freedom - and trust in people to demonstrate common sense - that you lack the trust in people, their managers and their organisations to determine their most appropriate work location.

Why is this worthy of government dictat but not public health?

There’s no going back to 2019, ever. For the man with the 2035 vision of the future I’m surprised working practices look like 1995.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I should imagine all office workers will be at home by 2035 doing nothing and not earning anything as AI will be doing the jobs they had and robots for the manual workers.

Universal Credit will turn into Universal Income and the perverbial shit will hit the fan.

Interesting times ahead I doubt I'll live to see it though.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Well I'll be 70 in 2035 but since retirement age by then will be 85 still plugging away at something they don't or can't trust to automation yet.

Re: Coronavirus