Re: The energy crisis
 

:rofl:

Re: The energy crisis
 

Re: The energy crisis
 

Re: The energy crisis
 

Please use text, its annoying to have to quote an image.

What was the point you are referring to ?

Re: The energy crisis
 

Exactly. It's similar to how pub chains say they have to increase prices because their supplier has increased prices to them
..

...bur the same company owns the beer supply company and the pub chain.

---------- Post added at 15:00 ---------- Previous post was at 14:54 ----------

If things didn't work out and higher increases were proposed, their (price sensitive) customers would simply switch to another supplier and, again, they would face going bust. This would serve no purpose other than to stifle competition.

The cost of paying for energy companies that fail is borne by all customers via a levy on their bills. If a 'risky' company had to charge a levy to protect it's customers, it would most likely wipe out any savings offered, making their business plan unworkable.

I like the Labour idea of a people's energy company. People would still be free to use any supplier, but the non profit peoples supplierwould be the cheapest.

Other companies would either end up going bust or try to compete with things like better customer service.

This idea also has the advantage of not needing the taxpayer having to pay our to nationalise the existing companies.

Re: The energy crisis
 

He previously said that the Parent Corporation (Shell) couldn’t subsidise the subsidiary company (Shell Energy) - I posted some information showing that this in fact was happening, and he pivoted to say it showed that the Energy Suppliers weren’t making a profit, which wasn’t the original point…

Re: The energy crisis
 

Didn't he also say that Shell and others should be subject to a windfall tax?
That could be used to offset the cost of the payouts the Gov is making to everyone.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Not that I can find in this thread.

Even if he did, that doesn’t validate his assertion that the Parent Companies couldn’t subsidise the subsidiaries.

Re: The energy crisis
 

That's not really true:

1. Most pub companies are no longer owned by brewers. The largest pub companies - Stonegate, Mitchells & Butlers and Wetherspoons are all independent. Only Greene King owns a sizeable estate still and most are operated as stand-alone businesses by landlords. Fullers, Whitbread, Young's and Marston's divested their eponymous breweries.

2. Even Greene King beer purchases account for just some of its pubs' costs. They have to pay for staff, business rates, energy, Sky TV, food, other drinks, maintenance etc.

---------- Post added at 10:52 ---------- Previous post was at 10:49 ----------

Agreed. It's annoying when people do that.

Re: The energy crisis
 

A loan isn't a subsidy. In their future accounts, you will see payments for those loans being paid to the parent company. Same as can be seen in various companies.

Re: The energy crisis
 

A loan isn’t. A loan that is repeatedly deferred and eventually written off is.

Re: The energy crisis
 

And that would attract adverse attention from the Competition and Market Authority, as well as the Financial Conduct Authority, and ultimately Ofgem.
Why should one supplier (of anything) be able to charge lower prices simply because they had a "sugar daddy" to pay part of the costs.

Re: The energy crisis
 

It is true as, to get around the Monopolies & Mergers Commission ban on breweries alsi owning pubs, companies were created that owned the buildings. Those who rent these buildings are required to buy their stock from these companirs at inflated prices.

Re: The energy crisis
 

:rofl:

Re: The energy crisis
 

If the loan is not at market rate then it's a subsidy by way of lower interest. And if it's not below market rate, why not go to the market?

---------- Post added at 23:06 ---------- Previous post was at 22:59 ----------

I think Ofgem would be happpy that Shell is supporting its subsidiary. It saves them going to the wall and being rescued by Ofgem.
Shell is not trying to charge lower prices aka "unfair competition" so CMA is not interested. And this does not come under the FCA's jurisdiction by any stretch of the imagination.
Nothing wrong with vertical integration. It can strip out costs and make companies more responsive to their customers' needs.

Re: The energy crisis
 

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Centrica was a new name for part of the former British Gas plc which split into three companies.

Re: The energy crisis
 

I've had an email from Bulb with price increase from 1st January 2023.

Re: The energy crisis
 

So the Octopus take over is dragging then

Re: The energy crisis
 

I was paying £72 a month to SP, I am always in credit Now they want to increase my monthly payment to £208 , No way am I paying this, I will phone them today, Even if the double it it might be a bit fairer but this is robbery ,

Re: The energy crisis
 

Yes, I got one as well, I'm puzzled as to how prices can increase when they are supposed to be capped :confused:

---------- Post added at 13:00 ---------- Previous post was at 12:58 ----------

They basically said that it will be business as normal until next year, all that will change for now is that Bulb will be owned by Octopus.

Re: The energy crisis
 

What you living in mate, that seems really low.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Anyone who says they understand the Cap either designed it or is very misinformed.

Re: The energy crisis
 

The price cap is due to increase from January 2023.
https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/publication...arantee%20(EPG).

Re: The energy crisis
 

I mean the government cap (of £2,500) which is being used to set the current prices (the mentioned EPG).

Re: The energy crisis
 

The Liz Truss £2500 price cap was due to be in place from 1st October 2022 to April 2023.

In November the new Chancellor Jeremy Hunt extended the government’s energy price freeze until April 2024, with the 'average' household's cap increasing from £2,500 to £3,000.

also... https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk...ings/cbp-9491/

I know most of us on here understand that the cap is not the maximum amount that anyone can expect to pay but the following link (one of many) helps clarify that the cap is merely the amount calculated to be the expected annual energy cost for a typical average household in a 3 bedroom house. How long your piece of string is a totally different thing.

https://fullfact.org/economy/liz-tru...rice-cap-2500/

Re: The energy crisis
 

I don’t think anyone would be disputing a price rise in April. It’s how it goes up a tiny fraction of a penny on an entirely unrelated date. Unless I’ve got Paul’s point wrong in which case I apologise for adding to the confusion!

Re: The energy crisis
 

I do try but I can't understand either.

All I know is that with my 2 year fix price contract with Octopus due to end next summer we are going to have to remortgage our house by the time our winter bills come in. As pensioners with a fixed income we still feel sqeezed by the cost of living rises and feel so sorry for those people who are so much more worse off than we are.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Sorry if it came across as having a go, that wasn’t intended. Thanks for having a go at navigating it. :)

Re: The energy crisis
 

Hey, never thought you were having a go. Just wanted to let you know I felt the same way. xx

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OB has been back the last week or so.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Re: The energy crisis
 

You are correct.

The current cap means energy prices should not rise until April 2023, yet bulb have sent out small price rises in Jan 2023. :confused:

Re: The energy crisis
 

:D

I sent him a message a few weeks back I’m sure his return is unrelated. :D

Re: The energy crisis
 

This past week saw our highest use of gas and electricity for 5 years. The weather fought back against all the power-saving we tried, and the house took about 3 hours to warm enough in the morning.

38 units of gas and 90 of electricity.

Re: The energy crisis
 

£44 quids Gas but that is not a lot of leccy for a month I use about 205 to 210 KWH

Re: The energy crisis
 

I think his figures were for a week, so would be around 160 & 390 for a month.

The freezing weather sent my gas usage up, about 9 units per day for the last week.
Electricity didnt change too much, we only have one electric (oil) heater, in the smallest bedroom (it has no radiator).
My electric is around 380 per month, all year.

Re: The energy crisis
 

They say that oil filled radiators are quite efficient.

Do they have safeguards in case it's knocked overr? I remember a poor family who relied on parrifin heaters. One of their children knocked one over and the house set on fire.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Well this one does, it has a cutoff switch if not upright.
They are sealed of course, so would not leak oil anyway.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Yeah I just wrapped up

At one point I had t-shirt, Jumper, hoodie done up and my head covered, gloves and a sleeping bag hahaha

Re: The energy crisis
 

I'm away from home until the 29th and with my smart thermastat heating in away mode it's not tripping on and the house is still 17c lol, it's like a heatwave now and all the snow melted last night.

My gas usage doubled for December as I expected with the Electricity around the same.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Apparently, we lose most of our heat through our heads (it's why premature babies have their heads covered in tin foil), so your hoodie will have helped with this.

If you have a beanie hat or something similar I bet you'd be even warmer.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Not true.
https://www.theguardian.com/science/...humanbehaviour

Re: The energy crisis
 

Re: The energy crisis
 

What sort of hair did your parents milkman have? :D

Re: The energy crisis
 

Re: The energy crisis
 

Ditto, loads of hair but all the men in my family bald, including my sons who are well on the way. They are particularly sick about it. Doubtless I'll have some other nastier genetic surprise instead ...

Re: The energy crisis
 

Depends what you are wearing, not many people go around in just trunks.

Re: The energy crisis
 

You wear trunks? Softie!

Re: The energy crisis
 

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/othe...d404c3a3e6499b

There will be a small energy price increase in January, specially designed for Paul 1.4%.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Really, we have been told ours is falling?

Re: The energy crisis
 

Re: The energy crisis
 

Had email off Octopus saying unit rates were going to drop a little in January

Re: The energy crisis
 

..

Re: The energy crisis
 

What will your new rates and standing charges be as I'd like to compare to Bulb seeing it's now owned by Octopus?

Their website currently says 403 Forbidden for me.

Bulb Rates for DD payments from January 2023

Electricity Unit rate 35.134p per kWh
Standing charge 38.9361p per day (£142.12 per year)

Gas Unit rate 10.3089p per kWh
Standing charge 28.4844p per day (£103.97 per year)

Re: The energy crisis
 

For comparison with Shell Energy (DD) tariff rates

Electricity
Unit rate per kWh:33.029p
Standing charge:49.54p per day

Gas
Unit rate per kWh:10.244p
Standing charge:28.48p per day

Update

We use about 15kWh electricity per day, so whilst we pay 11p more per day standing charge, we save (by comparison) around 30p per day - swings/roundabouts…

Re: The energy crisis
 

Your standing charge is very high for electricity I wonder how that pans out seeing your unit rate is cheaper.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Just amended the post, as I thought the same myself - with our usage, we are cheaper by around 20p per day…

Re: The energy crisis
 

my electric standing charge is
55.759 p
unit rate 35.739 apparently from cheap renewable wind tech

Unit rates

Gas:

11.024p per kWh

Standing charges

Gas:

33.536p per day

Re: The energy crisis
 

my unit rates are already lower than yours but standing charges higher. Different areas have different rates. We have not had Jan rates yet from what I can see

Re: The energy crisis
 

As Scottish Power is utterly useless they still haven’t started billing us at the new build we moved into at the end of June. So I’m still taking photos of the meters at the end of every month and keeping running totals of our consumption. The big unknown is what it’s actually costing us; we have moved from a super-draughty old house to a super-efficient new one (insulation, LEDs, new appliances) so my gut feeling is that the improved energy performance of the house is going to offset the energy price rises.

Although we’re not with Shell I used your tariff details to get a ball-park figure for our running costs since the beginning of September. I’m aware this means I’ve counted one month at what should be lower rates but I’d rather over estimate than under.

Based on your data we’ve used £366 in gas (£400 including standing charge) and £395 electricity (£455 with standing charge) since the start of September. I’d be curious to see other posters actual billed amounts for the last 4 months for comparison, if anyone’s happy to share.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Electric £280 + £54 SC Gas £42 +£33 SC I have only used my heating twice to dry clothes

Re: The energy crisis
 

4 bed detached, gas central heating, 3 adults.

We've used less gas each month except December, when we had the really cold snap and our 3 year old grandson was with us quite a bit - on average we've used between 10-15% less electricity, and 15-30% less gas as the same time last year (except for December, where we used around 15% more gas).

September £134.98 (last year £89.99)
Elec £99.31
Gas £35.67

October £189.90 (last year £106.65)
Elec £137.34
Gas £52.56

November £268.55 (last year 130.16)
Elec £159.37
Gas £109.18

December £373.36 (last year £148.94)
Elec £145.98
Gas £227.38

So, since the beginning of September, we've spent around £425 on gas and £542 on electricity (including standing charges).

Hope this helps...

Re: The energy crisis
 

I’ve not been enough of a rep whore recently … but thank you, that is very helpful :tu:

Re: The energy crisis
 

Does this help?

https://octopus.energy/blog/energy-price-cap-oct-2022/

Re: The energy crisis
 

Just looking at those figures, our bills have increased month on month (compared to the same month in the previous year) by approx. 50%, 75%, 100%, and 150%.

Scary…

Re: The energy crisis
 

well that is confusing cuz it shows an increase even though we had email saying decrease. Oh well it is marginal anyway. Cheers

Re: The energy crisis
 

For us, the house move has come at just the right time.

Our monthly electricity bill, based on my estimate using your tariff, is about the same as this time last year, because we no longer have electric showers or an electric hob. We’re using a lot less of a resource that costs a lot more and more or less breaking even.

Our monthly gas bill replaces a per-tonne cost for biomass which is significantly more expensive than gas (though significantly cheaper than bottled gas or heating oil). So although we have added cooking and cleaning to that half of our energy bill, I think at the moment we have spent only about two-thirds of what we would have spent this time last year.

Re: The energy crisis
 

This is my usage for the last 4 bill periods for a 2 bedroom house with conventional Gas Central Heating with only currently 1 adult that doesn't stay home when working, I'm hoping my smart thermastat will help a little for my January bill as it means the heating isn't coming on between 7am-9.30am when I'm on early shift seeing it knows I'm not home.

I refuse to freeze my tits off when home so the heating gets it's chance to come on but at a lower degree setting than the last few years.

December's bill will be alot more for Gas.

August
Electricity £57.21
Gas £22.50

September
Electricity £47.63
Gas £24.22

October
Electricity £69.53
Gas £44.64

November
Electricity £60.62
Gas £76.78

Re: The energy crisis
 

At the moment our Electricity is around £100 a month and our gas is around £65 a month.

2 years ago it was about £50 for them both together.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Apparently the spot prices for natural gas bought in the UK and the EU are now at pre-invasion levels. Of course, our bills will start to quickly return to their pre-invasion levels, right ;)

Oil is also lower than pre-invasion price: https://www.theguardian.com/environm...aine-war-level

Re: The energy crisis
 

Only if our gas-fired power stations are buying their fuel at spot prices, which I understand they mainly don’t. Fixed-price contracts will have to work their way through the system first.

Petrol and diesel prices should react more quickly though, and around here at least they seem to be doing so.

Re: The energy crisis
 

They've got used to super profits and so have their doner shareholders...

Re: The energy crisis
 

I thought my December usage would be alot more seeing my heating would have been blasting far more so I'm pleasantly surprised, however I was away from home for 10 days over Christmas with the heating off so I guess that's it although I'm hoping my smart thermastat helped.

December 2022 usage, unfortunately I can't compare against 2021 because I had boiler issues back then for a month or so.
Electricity £40.28
Gas £98.48

---------- Post added at 11:41 ---------- Previous post was at 11:10 ----------

Bulb are now recommending I reduce my payments down to £70.85 so I've dropped it to £71 seeing I'm £235 in credit and they need to credit me £67 still.

Re: The energy crisis
 

And there in lies the rub. The system created for and run by the corporate energy companies is a fix. We pay more in all situations. The system is so arcane and opaque, by design, so that most of the consumers are unable to understand and therefore protest about being ripped off.

We produce, on a good day, >50% of our electricity needs from wind. Yes, our wind on our land yet we have to pay the price of the highest input for this energy. The system, like many others, is deliberately setup to profit big business and their stakeholders. We are we so stupid in allowing this?

Re: The energy crisis
 

Some good news
https://www.ft.com/content/6d21f023-...8-1689fde2d05a

Re: The energy crisis
 

Good old Global Warming. :)

Another few years and we wont need heating. :erm:

Re: The energy crisis
 

It’s not just here for the nasty things in life like catastrophic flooding. It’s here for the nice things too. ;)

Re: The energy crisis
 

EDF strike again , on fixed rate till May just had a refund of £350 , over payment for the year . Put my standing order up ( double) based on estimate that I will use 2 times the power that I have in the last year ! Given that may be correct not likely but still, why give a refund and then take more each month

Re: The energy crisis
 

Still waiting for Bulb to cough up this months £67 energy rebate, maybe they're waiting for my £83 direct debit to go through first.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Mine is late off Octopus too. They have no choice though not worried

Re: The energy crisis
 

Octopus credit the energy rebate to your account when your bill is calculated/ your direct debit is collected. Or at least that how mine works.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Delayed by the holidays perhaps ?

---------- Post added at 01:59 ---------- Previous post was at 01:57 ----------

Wouldnt you rather have the money, than them ?

I would, which is why I switched to just paying what I actually owe each month, no big "credit" built up (i.e. them having my money).

Re: The energy crisis
 

Bulb has just rebated my account.

Re: The energy crisis
 

I believe that, to stop them holding onto people's money interest free, the rules were changed a few years ago to require them to do this (once a year I think).

---------- Post added at 16:08 ---------- Previous post was at 16:06 ----------

Does it work out more expensive doing it this way though?

I know that you can have Sky on a rolling monthly contract instead of entering into a contract, but it does work out more expensive.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Not atm.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Some energy suppliers have a (slightly) more expensive tariff for customers who pay in full in arrears rather than a fixed amount direct debit, but not all of them do.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Bulb may or may not do that normally, I dont know, but the cap limits what they can charge atm.

It remains to be seen what happens as we move to Octopus, although the cap seems to be in place for some time yet.

Re: The energy crisis
 

There will be a 20% increase in unit rates in April that I think runs for the year. There may well be small drops over the year and the hopefully 2024 will see lower wholesale prices.

Octopus do also give a small standing charge discount

Re: The energy crisis
 

I understand the refund just about, but why put up standing order based on using twice the power of this/last year. As I have over paid every year for the last 4 years is it really necessary ?

Re: The energy crisis
 

Didnt get chance to check yesterday, but yes, I was credited £67 on the 5th.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Folks are in for a bit of a shock when Govt. stop crediting, and wonder why their energy bill has just doubled....

Re: The energy crisis
 

There's two things determining your bill. The cost of energy and the standing charge and your usage. If any of these have increased then your direct debit is likely to rise as well.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Doubled ? I think not.

I really wish £67 a month was 50% of my bills, sadly, its not.

Saving days
 

The scheme reportedly compares usage against a customer's usual demand and pays £3 for every unit or kilowatt hour (kWh) saved.

What is the definition exactly of customer's usual demand ?


Yesterday? Last week? Last month average? All Mondays of the year?

I have made 59p so far by participating in these so called saving days.

And all electrical intensive tasks of mine (washing machines, dishwashers etc ) were on 4-6 on all non saving days.

This is BS of the highest order.

Re: The energy crisis
 

We have been doing it and over the last 3 sessions I have been credited with £7.97. This time I doubt if we will save much as we don't normally use much electricty between 5-6pm.

According to my supplier, Octopus,

Re: The energy crisis
 

Well it's a gigantic load of toss anyway, I was working until 6 so what the actual **** i could turn off really beats me. Plus it's not really that cold here tonight, only supposed to go down to about -1 or -2, which is warmer than it has been or was a few weeks ago.


If this is a boiling frog then they're hoping people fall for it again...

Re: The energy crisis
 

Only applies if you have a smart meter anyway, so only half the UK.

Re: The energy crisis
 

It's not about temperature, it's about the amount of wind power available. People returning home and putting the kettle on at the same time as any contribution from solar power declines.

---------- Post added at 19:37 ---------- Previous post was at 19:34 ----------

And set to report hourly figures, not daily.