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-   -   Britain outside the EU (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33709659)

Sephiroth 30-07-2021 10:12
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36087923)
You need to own your decision to vote for Johnson and Brexit and not try and push the responsibility for sorting the situation out onto others.

Your MP may be worth consulting - after all it was he who said 'Getting out of the EU can be quick and easy – the UK holds most of the cards.'
No - you can't wriggle out of it by blaming me.

Why would you be content for the UK to improve relations with the EU with the result that they then call all the shots?

1andrew1 30-07-2021 10:17
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36087924)
No - you can't wriggle out of it by blaming me.

Why would you be content for the UK to improve relations with the EU with the result that they then call all the shots?
I've not actually said the latter and you've still not advised me what cards we hold. You know everything is a question of trade-offs and hopefully appreciate you can't have your cake and eat it.

Sephiroth 30-07-2021 10:29
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36087926)
I've not actually said the latter and you've still not advised me what cards we hold. You know everything is a question of trade-offs and hopefully appreciate you can't have your cake and eat it.
You're still wriggling, Andrew. You want a "deft negotiator" (no objection there) to bring the UK into a better relationship with the EU knowing that the EU holds all the cards. By reductio ad absurdum, you are content that whatever emerges will advantage the EU more than the UK - the EU would call the shots going forward. That is unacceptable.

As to the cards held by the UK, I take your point well. But your point is predicated on improving relations with the EU. We don't need to improve relations, imo. If we hold any cards, it's "deftly" getting the blame for any disruption or disorder in NI blamed on the EU.

jonbxx 30-07-2021 11:13
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36087928)
You're still wriggling, Andrew. You want a "deft negotiator" (no objection there) to bring the UK into a better relationship with the EU knowing that the EU holds all the cards. By reductio ad absurdum, you are content that whatever emerges will advantage the EU more than the UK - the EU would call the shots going forward. That is unacceptable.

As to the cards held by the UK, I take your point well. But your point is predicated on improving relations with the EU. We don't need to improve relations, imo. If we hold any cards, it's "deftly" getting the blame for any disruption or disorder in NI blamed on the EU.
If the EU has things we want, then, by definition, the EU holds cards. It's up to us now to decide if the price is worth paying to get access. You get nothing for free in this world, even if you are the United Kingdom.

The price of maintaining the Peace Process in Northern Ireland was Northern Ireland still being somewhat in the EU, that was clear. If we as a nation decide that a few months later, that isn't a price worth paying, then the Peace Process collapses. That's on us.

mrmistoffelees 30-07-2021 11:21
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonbxx (Post 36087934)
If the EU has things we want, then, by definition, the EU holds cards. It's up to us now to decide if the price is worth paying to get access. You get nothing for free in this world, even if you are the United Kingdom.

The price of maintaining the Peace Process in Northern Ireland was Northern Ireland still being somewhat in the EU, that was clear. If we as a nation decide that a few months later, that isn't a price worth paying, then the Peace Process collapses. That's on us.
Eloquently put, simply explained.

Alas, people will still try and argue that black is white.

Carth 30-07-2021 11:32
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36087937)
Eloquently put, simply explained.

Alas, people will still try and argue that black is white.
In a room with no light source, white is also black ;)

mrmistoffelees 30-07-2021 11:38
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36087939)
In a room with no light source, white is also black ;)
It also means people can't see what's in front of them....

Sephiroth 30-07-2021 11:50
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonbxx (Post 36087934)
If the EU has things we want, then, by definition, the EU holds cards. It's up to us now to decide if the price is worth paying to get access. You get nothing for free in this world, even if you are the United Kingdom.

The price of maintaining the Peace Process in Northern Ireland was Northern Ireland still being somewhat in the EU, that was clear. If we as a nation decide that a few months later, that isn't a price worth paying, then the Peace Process collapses. That's on us.
For all your eloquence, Jon I'm not sure what you mean in your first paragraph - "get access". Andrew was idealistically saying that we need to have a better relationship with the EU. He went no further than that other than to curse the current negotiators.

On your second paragraph, the result of what we signed is a tight implementation of the NI Protocol by the EU. I don't think for one moment the nation doesn't want to protect peace in NI; but clearly the EU's implementation of the Protocol is disrupting the peace. Something has to be done about that and the price that the EU wants to exact is to call the shots elsewhere in the name of "better relations".

papa smurf 30-07-2021 12:19
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36087941)
It also means people can't see what's in front of them....
or what's behind them.

Carth 30-07-2021 12:45
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
I'm not a big card player, but I think that if someone holds all the cards it means:

1) they've got over 21 and bust
2) they're cheating
3) it's their turn to deal

jonbxx 30-07-2021 13:00
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36087947)
For all your eloquence, Jon I'm not sure what you mean in your first paragraph - "get access". Andrew was idealistically saying that we need to have a better relationship with the EU. He went no further than that other than to curse the current negotiators.

On your second paragraph, the result of what we signed is a tight implementation of the NI Protocol by the EU. I don't think for one moment the nation doesn't want to protect peace in NI; but clearly the EU's implementation of the Protocol is disrupting the peace. Something has to be done about that and the price that the EU wants to exact is to call the shots elsewhere in the name of "better relations".
By access, I mean access for trade, protection of mutual interests, etc. We don't necessarily need good relations with our neighbours to get a warm fuzzy feeling, we want and need good relations for our own benefit.

Remember Charles De Gaulle - 'No nation has friends only interests' (yes I know he's French...)

On the Northern Ireland thing, The EUs job was to represent Irelands place in the Peace Process, not the UKs. Ireland stance is that the border should remain open and the NI Protocol does that. What happens with Unionists in the North is the UKs issue. If the border is to stay open, the UK has to either anger Northern Irish Unionists by keeping the Irish Sea 'border' or Conservative back benchers (and most of the people on this forum) by aligning more closely with the EU. Based on that, Boris Johnson is throwing Unionists under the bus in a heartbeat

1andrew1 30-07-2021 13:32
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36087947)
For all your eloquence, Jon I'm not sure what you mean in your first paragraph - "get access". Andrew was idealistically saying that we need to have a better relationship with the EU. He went no further than that other than to curse the current negotiators.
It's not an idealistic thing to want better relations with your key trading partner, it's a pragmatic one.

And I did go beyond this and this is a point jonbxx has expanded upon:
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36087926)
You know everything is a question of trade-offs

pip08456 30-07-2021 14:14
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonbxx (Post 36087965)
By access, I mean access for trade, protection of mutual interests, etc. We don't necessarily need good relations with our neighbours to get a warm fuzzy feeling, we want and need good relations for our own benefit.

Remember Charles De Gaulle - 'No nation has friends only interests' (yes I know he's French...)

On the Northern Ireland thing, The EUs job was to represent Irelands place in the Peace Process, not the UKs. Ireland stance is that the border should remain open and the NI Protocol does that. What happens with Unionists in the North is the UKs issue. If the border is to stay open, the UK has to either anger Northern Irish Unionists by keeping the Irish Sea 'border' or Conservative back benchers (and most of the people on this forum) by aligning more closely with the EU. Based on that, Boris Johnson is throwing Unionists under the bus in a heartbeat
He was my hero!

Quote:
Britain first began talks to join the EEC in July 1961. The UK's applications to join in 1963 and 1967 were vetoed by the President of France, Charles de Gaulle.

Sephiroth 30-07-2021 14:27
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 36087973)
He was my hero!
Quote:
Britain first began talks to join the EEC in July 1961. The UK's applications to join in 1963 and 1967 were vetoed by the President of France, Charles de Gaulle.
Perfidious then, perfidious now.

1andrew1 30-07-2021 14:33
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36087975)
Perfidious then, perfidious now.
He's dead isn't he?

papa smurf 30-07-2021 14:36
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36087977)
He's dead isn't he?
perfidiously dead;)

Sephiroth 30-07-2021 14:42
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36087977)
He's dead isn't he?
But not his political spawn.

1andrew1 30-07-2021 14:42
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Will be interesting to see if the UK relaxes any restrictions on European drivers working in the UK or implements other solutions. Arla says it's not suffering from a pingdemic but a lack of drivers.
Quote:
Dairy giant Arla says driver crisis hitting milk supply

Dairy giant Arla, which supplies milk to all major UK supermarkets, has said a lorry driver shortage has forced it to cut back on its deliveries.

UK managing director Ash Amirahmadi said the firm normally supplied 2,400 stores a day, but had been experiencing driver shortages since early April.

"Last Saturday, there were 600 stores that we couldn't deliver milk to," he told the BBC.

He warned of a summer of disruption and urged the government to act.

"It's very worrying for customers when they go into shops and find that the shelves are empty," he said.

"Our assessment is that we're in a driver shortage crisis and therefore we're asking for the industry and government to work together to recognise we're in a crisis and actually address the issue."

Mr Amirahmadi said the government could help the industry by accelerating the programme of driving tests for new HGV drivers, as well as by issuing temporary visas for the road haulage industry, so that more European drivers could be allowed into the country.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58012884

Chris 30-07-2021 15:04
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
I hope they accelerate the UK HGV training process. Filling job vacancies ourselves rather than relying on cheap imports from Eastern Europe was rather the point of this exercise.

1andrew1 30-07-2021 15:38
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36087983)
I hope they accelerate the UK HGV training process. Filling job vacancies ourselves rather than relying on cheap imports from Eastern Europe was rather the point of this exercise.
Accelerating the HGV training process should definitely be the UK's priority priority here. I think the European drivers are seen as a stop gap so aren't necessarily cheap.

pip08456 30-07-2021 15:42
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36087987)
Accelerating the HGV training process should definitely be the UK's priority priority here. I think the European drivers are seen as a stop gap so aren't necessarily cheap.
Perhaps that is the case now but cheap european drivers in the past is the reason companies didn't need to train drivers.

Carth 30-07-2021 15:46
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
I'm struggling to think where 100,000 drivers have 'disappeared' to in the last 6 months. :shrug:

Did they all retire at the same time?
Have they been pinged by the Covid app?
Have they decided on a career change and gone pea picking?

. . . surely 100,000 out of 600,000 weren't foreign and gone home, leaving all those big wages behind ;)

1andrew1 30-07-2021 15:59
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36087989)
I'm struggling to think where 100,000 drivers have 'disappeared' to in the last 6 months. :shrug:

Did they all retire at the same time?
Have they been pinged by the Covid app?
Have they decided on a career change and gone pea picking?

. . . surely 100,000 out of 600,000 weren't foreign and gone home, leaving all those big wages behind ;)
Agreed that 100,000 is a large number. Some have retired. Some left the UK after lockdown and decided not to return. Plus there will have been a backlog in training built up during lockdowns.

jonbxx 30-07-2021 16:07
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36087975)
Perfidious then, perfidious now.
In his statement about interests, Charles de Gaulle was right then and right now too....

Sephiroth 30-07-2021 16:11
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonbxx (Post 36087992)
In his statement about interests, Charles de Gaulle was right then and right now too....
I'm glad we agree. But it does rather imply that De Gaulle (and now that running dog Macron) wish to dominate the EU, which they stand no chance if we had remained.

Hugh 30-07-2021 16:24
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36087989)
I'm struggling to think where 100,000 drivers have 'disappeared' to in the last 6 months. :shrug:

Did they all retire at the same time?
Have they been pinged by the Covid app?
Have they decided on a career change and gone pea picking?

. . . surely 100,000 out of 600,000 weren't foreign and gone home, leaving all those big wages behind ;)
Lorry drivers wages are £18.5k to £35k for a 50 hour week - not bad, but not "big", imho…

https://nationalcareers.service.gov....vehicle-driver

Also, about 30,000 HGV driving tests were lost last year because of the Covid pandemic.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-57587253

So, any new drivers (which is what a lot would be, to make up the shortfall, would be earning £7.11 an hour for a 50 hour week, including evenings, weekends, and Bank Holidays (and when experienced, £13.46).

Woo hoo!! :shocked:

Carth 30-07-2021 16:30
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Here's a thought, maybe ARLA, a company that deals with deliveries to supermarkets (and we're pretty sure supermarkets won't pay top notch for this), pays their drivers a pretty low wage compared to other haulage firms.

As an example, taken from this Wiki page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arla_Foods_UK

Quote:
According to the BBC, in August 2015, farmers were paid less per pint of milk by Arla than by supermarkets that buy directly
Assuming they do pay low wages, let's also assume that the drivers, seeing a shortage in other areas of haulage, have buggered off to better paid jobs, leaving ARLA in the lurch trying to complete their contracts with those really nice and considerate supermarkets :D

All assumptions of course :Yes:

Hugh 30-07-2021 16:38
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
I agree - workers shouldn’t have to subsidise companies profits by having low wages.

btw, the lorry driver wages examples are industry wide, not just ARLA - £7 an hour is a crappy wage, especially when you have to work 50 hours a week to get it.

Sephiroth 30-07-2021 16:58
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
https://www.totaljobs.com/salary-che...drivers-salary

... says tge average wage is £32,500

https://uk.indeed.com/cmp/Arla-Foods...%20%C2%A315.21.

Offers ARLA wages: £12.93 per hour which, at 50 weeks/year at 50 hours/week comes to £32,500.

Carth 30-07-2021 16:59
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36087996)
I agree - workers shouldn’t have to subsidise companies profits by having low wages.

btw, the lorry driver wages examples are industry wide, not just ARLA - £7 an hour is a crappy wage, especially when you have to work 50 hours a week to get it.
Having just looked, Arla are recruiting drivers (or trying to), and offering £12.37 - £16.36 per hour depending on experience etc.

They also produce butter, cheeses, yoghurts etc (which use milk) for retailers . . which doesn't seem to be impacted (at least not mentioned) by a shortage of drivers?


edit: beaten by my colleague Sephiroth ;)

Hugh 30-07-2021 17:03
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36088002)
https://www.totaljobs.com/salary-che...drivers-salary

... says tge average wage is £32,500

https://uk.indeed.com/cmp/Arla-Foods...%20%C2%A315.21.

Offers ARLA wages: £12.93 per hour which, at 50 weeks/year at 50 hours/week comes to £32,500.


The HMG site gives the rage of salaries, from beginner to experienced (new drivers would be under the "beginners" end of the range.

Looking at the recruitment* website, one would imagine that is the salary level for experienced drivers, which matches the HMG figure.

*recruitment companies - like double-glazing salesmen, but without the ethics, morals, and honesty… ;)

Carth 30-07-2021 17:07
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36088004)
*recruitment companies - like double-glazing salesmen, but without the ethics, morals, and honesty… ;)
100% agree with that statement.

1andrew1 30-07-2021 18:56
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36088007)
100% agree with that statement.
I'm afraid that's not permitted on this thread. :D

Carth 30-07-2021 19:04
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36088012)
I'm afraid that's not permitted on this thread. :D
aah, erm, err . . . oh, predictive text, yes, that's it, *stares at keyboard* damn predictive text :D

TheDaddy 30-07-2021 22:43
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36087989)
I'm struggling to think where 100,000 drivers have 'disappeared' to in the last 6 months. :shrug:

Did they all retire at the same time?
Have they been pinged by the Covid app?
Have they decided on a career change and gone pea picking?

. . . surely 100,000 out of 600,000 weren't foreign and gone home, leaving all those big wages behind ;)
A lot of European companies pay their drivers by the kilometre, if you're held up at boarders now or there's no one to unload you coz of the pingdemic you're not earning.

TheDaddy 02-08-2021 12:55
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Did I hear this right, bozo and Dave Frost didn't understand the effects a border in the Irish Sea would have on trade between N Ireland and the rest of the Union, they can't honestly expect any one to believe this can they?

Sephiroth 02-08-2021 13:01
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36088238)
Did I hear this right, bozo and Dave Frost didn't understand the effects a border in the Irish Sea would have on trade between N Ireland and the rest of the Union, they can't honestly expect any one to believe this can they?
What is the source of what you heard?

1andrew1 02-08-2021 13:12
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36088238)
Did I hear this right, bozo and Dave Frost didn't understand the effects a border in the Irish Sea would have on trade between N Ireland and the rest of the Union, they can't honestly expect any one to believe this can they?
many people seem to believe their line that it's not the border in the Irish see, it's the way it's been implemented that is the issue.

TheDaddy 02-08-2021 15:27
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36088240)
What is the source of what you heard?
I believe it was the Irish Times, was a tweet that disappeared before I could click on it and due to dodgy eyeballs couldn't find again scrolling through, was dated today though

---------- Post added at 14:27 ---------- Previous post was at 14:26 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36088245)
many people seem to believe their line that it's not the border in the Irish see, it's the way it's been implemented that is the issue.
They were warned repeatedly what it would mean

1andrew1 02-08-2021 16:51
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36088256)
They were warned repeatedly what it would mean
Agreed.

Sephiroth 02-08-2021 17:12
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
I suspect that they knew what was going to happen. They inherited the Withdrawal Agreement from Theresa May, which included the NI Protocol. They thus expected the unrest and dissatisfaction that transpired and anticipated the need and opportunity to renegotiate the NI Protocol. All the foregoing, imo.

Question is, did they think the EU would budge on anything? The EU has suspended their legal action - that's easy and gives us nothing of substance. They'll then say/are saying that they (EU) have given ground now it's for the UK to do so.

In other words, the UK is in as big a pickle now as it was 7 months ago. Of course, I still deprecate the EU's intransigence and unwillingness not to implement the NI Protocol with greater sensibility for peace in NI.

Carth 02-08-2021 17:12
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Can you clarify 'they'?

Is it the EU, the Government, the Irish politicians (north and south), owners of import/export companies, supermarkets, fisherman, sausage makers etc . . or do you mean good old Joe (and Jean) public?

Sephiroth 02-08-2021 17:21
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36088267)
Can you clarify 'they'?

Is it the EU, the Government, the Irish politicians (north and south), owners of import/export companies, supermarkets, fisherman, sausage makers etc . . or do you mean good old Joe (and Jean) public?
Boris & co.

Carth 02-08-2021 17:26
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36088268)
Boris & co.
Thanks, for an awful minute I didn't think anyone knew who they were talking about :D

Sephiroth 02-08-2021 17:32
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36088270)
Thanks, for an awful minute I didn't think anyone knew who they were talking about :D
LOL, a subtle truth buried in that!

1andrew1 02-08-2021 18:01
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36088270)
Thanks, for an awful minute I didn't think anyone knew who they were talking about :D
:D

Hugh 02-08-2021 19:04
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36088270)
Thanks, for an awful minute I didn't think anyone knew who they were talking about :D
It’s more like if anyone doesn’t know who they are, and they don’t know what they are talking about, and anyone doesn’t know who doesn’t know what or who they are talking about, it’s likely that what they’re talking about, or to whom, might not make sense.

Does that make it clearer? :D

Sephiroth 02-08-2021 19:46
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36088289)
It’s more like if anyone doesn’t know who they are, and they don’t know what they are talking about, and anyone doesn’t know who doesn’t know what or who they are talking about, it’s likely that what they’re talking about, or to whom, might not make sense.

Does that make it clearer? :D
Is the "they" male, female, trans?

Carth 02-08-2021 20:24
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36088289)
It’s more like if anyone doesn’t know who they are, and they don’t know what they are talking about, and anyone doesn’t know who doesn’t know what or who they are talking about, it’s likely that what they’re talking about, or to whom, might not make sense.

Does that make it clearer? :D
A solicitor would have charged £35 for writing that . . . plus postage :D

Sephiroth 02-08-2021 20:30
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36088294)
A solicitor would have charged £35 for writing that . . . plus postage :D
Plus VAT.

Hugh 02-08-2021 21:11
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36088291)
Is the "they" male, female, trans?
Gender-neutral ;)

TheDaddy 03-08-2021 12:36
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36088044)
A lot of European companies pay their drivers by the kilometre, if you're held up at boarders now or there's no one to unload you coz of the pingdemic you're not earning.
Popped down a major international hub this morning for some exercise and a bit of a chat because I'm missing work a tiny bit and guess what they're all chatting about, the prospect of moving firms because of the thousands on offer for signing up with different companies, I'm all for the workers, always have been but if this comes to pass it seems desperate to me rather than some sort of levelling up exercise

Sephiroth 03-08-2021 14:56
Re: Britain outside the EU
 

What have I told you? They are the enemy and see us as such too.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...agged-ireland/

Quote:
EU vaccine rollout row flares after French official brags about Ireland ‘surpassing’ UK
First France’s EU Commissioner takes aim, then Irish Taoiseach Micheal Martin has a dig at Britain
Quote:
The EU's row with the UK over the rollout of Covid vaccines has been reignited after a senior official bragged about Ireland "surpassing" the UK on the number of double-jabbed adults.

Thierry Breton, France's EU Commissioner, tweeted to celebrate the success of Ireland's rollout, saying EU factories "keep supplying vaccines to the world".

He posted: "More than 70 per cent of Irish adults are now fully vaccinated, surpassing the UK (73 per cent vs 72 per cent).
Quote:
Commenting on Mr Breton's comments, Nadim Zahawi, the vaccines minister, said the efforts were not a "race", adding: "We want to help vaccinate the whole world.


BenMcr 03-08-2021 15:00
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36088357)
What have I told you? They are the enemy and see us as such too.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...agged-ireland/
Of course the UK Government would never stoop to such things....

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...t-latest-news/
Quote:
Jacob Rees-Mogg has accused the European regulator of being "a bit sniffy" about the "huge British success" in approving a Covid vaccine...

Sephiroth 03-08-2021 15:10
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenMcr (Post 36088358)
Of course the UK Government would never stoop to such things....

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...t-latest-news/
That's not the point. A French EU commissioner bragged about Ireland's vaccine performance; then the Irish Teashop echoed the same.

Only a Remainer would turn the EU's hostility into something one of our ministers has said.

Carth 03-08-2021 15:10
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
I would have thought . . nay, expected . . that any willy waving performance in the public eye would, should, be followed up by immediate arrest and court appearance under some kind of obscene act law.

. . . or is it different for virtual signaling?

Hugh 03-08-2021 15:11
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36088360)
That's not the point. A French EU commissioner bragged about Ireland's vaccine performance; then the Irish Teashop echoed the same.

Only a Remainer would turn the EU's hostility into something one of our ministers has said.
Only a Leaver would refuse to see that both sides have done the same thing...

Sephiroth 03-08-2021 15:22
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36088362)
Only a Leaver would refuse to see that both sides have done the same thing...
No. Rees-Mogg was reacting to the EU.

1andrew1 03-08-2021 15:29
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36088365)
No. Rees-Mogg was reacting to the EU.
So it was a pre-emptive strike from Rees-Mogg as he knew that Ireland was going to overtake the UK in roll-outs and that Thierry Breton would brag about it? It appears that I've under-estimated the man's skills.

Sephiroth 03-08-2021 16:54
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36088366)
So it was a pre-emptive strike from Rees-Mogg as he knew that Ireland was going to overtake the UK in roll-outs and that Thierry Breton would brag about it? It appears that I've under-estimated the man's skills.
Look, I've proved many times over that the EU is the UK's enemy to the extent that if they can punish the UK for Brexit they will.

Enemies need to be treated accordingly.
.

---------- Post added at 15:54 ---------- Previous post was at 15:33 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36088374)
Look, I've proved many times over that the EU is the UK's enemy to the extent that if they can punish the UK for Brexit they will.

Enemies need to be treated accordingly.

EDIT: Didn't we donate nearly 4 million vaccine doses to Ireland earlier this year? Makes the bragging very distasteful and certainly most perfidious.
.

BenMcr 03-08-2021 17:07
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36088374)
EDIT: Didn't we donate nearly 4 million vaccine doses to Ireland earlier this year? Makes the bragging very distasteful and certainly most perfidious.
There was some talk in March but I can't see any verified information to say that it happened.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40253024.html
Quote:
The [Irish] Government has said it is "not aware" of any plans that the British to share almost 4 million vaccines with Ireland, following reports on Sunday.

A Government spokesperson said it and the UK government "maintain close contact across all matters of common interest", but is not aware of a specific UK plan to share vaccines with Ireland.
If it had happened members of both the UK and NI Governments would have milked the point for all it is worth as a political gesture.

https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/po...friend-3181519
Quote:
Sammy Wilson: Vaccine offer shows Irish Republic that UK – not EU – is its true friend
News that the UK is willing to send millions of vaccine jabs to the Irish Republic should stand as a clear illustration that the UK – not the EU – is Ireland’s true friend.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-56556125
Quote:
The Sunday Times reported that the UK was preparing to offer 3.7 million vaccines to the Republic of Ireland.

It quoted a cabinet source who said the idea was both "good politics" and would address "genuine public health concern in Northern Ireland".

Sephiroth 03-08-2021 17:23
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenMcr (Post 36088378)
There was some talk in March but I can't see any verified information to say that it happened.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40253024.html


If it had happened members of both the UK and NI Governments would have milked the point for all it is worth as a political gesture.

https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/po...friend-3181519


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-56556125
Damn!

pip08456 03-08-2021 17:35
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
There never was an offer only a suggestion that any excess supplies could be sent.

1andrew1 03-08-2021 19:16
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36088380)
Damn!
Yes, I think it was a case of nearly donating 4 million vaccine doses as oppose to donating nearly 4 million vaccine doses. ;)

---------- Post added at 18:16 ---------- Previous post was at 16:57 ----------

More signs of the adjustment to Brexit. Covid no doubt playing its part too.
Quote:
Brexit: Vegetable producer says labour shortage means food is being thrown away

One of the country's biggest vegetable producers says it is losing thousands of pounds a week and having to throw away food due to a labour shortage.

The workforce at Alfred G Pearce, based near King's Lynn, Norfolk, is 20% to 30% down on previous years.

Business development manager Jack Pearce said the Covid-19 pandemic and Brexit were to blame.

The Home Office said employers should "invest in the domestic work force" rather than labour from abroad.

A second company, Freshlands Farm, based in Ramsey, Cambridgeshire, said it had lost tens of thousands of pumpkins as it had not been able to hire any workers to clear weeds from the fields.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-58058783

Chris 03-08-2021 21:31
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36088382)
Yes, I think it was a case of nearly donating 4 million vaccine doses as oppose to donating nearly 4 million vaccine doses. ;)

---------- Post added at 18:16 ---------- Previous post was at 16:57 ----------

More signs of the adjustment to Brexit. Covid no doubt playing its part too.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-58058783
Yup.

It’s unfortunate but this is the market at work. Sooner or later producers will learn what they need to do to thrive in this environment. The successful ones will find ways to implement new procedures. I hold out little hope for anyone who, this time next year, is still bleating about labour shortages in the faint hope of getting the government to readmit large numbers of casual labourers from Eastern Europe. Ministers have rightly reinforced their view that producers should be looking for ways to staff their operations locally.

Paul 03-08-2021 22:54
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
One of the country's biggest vegetable producers says it is losing thousands of pounds a week
So pay a few more people to work for you ?

Oh wait ...
Quote:
Mr Abblitt said it was "a big concern" whether he could find the 20 to 30 people per day needed to pick, wash and pack the remaining pumpkins.
You mean at the crappy rates you pay .... Im sure you could find 30 local people if the money was right.

Carth 03-08-2021 23:23
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Couldn't agree more Paul.

Mr Abblitt is possibly one of those nice employers that paid his foreign workers minimum wage, then charged them £100 a week each to live in cramped conditions in a couple of old caravans in the corner of a field.

He maybe even turned a blind eye to the legality of them being in the UK and paid them much less . . but it's all supposition, and there's no proof that he or anyone in the business ever did such a thing.

RichardCoulter 04-08-2021 13:11
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
New charge to visit Europe to be introduced:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.eti...er-brexit/amp/

Sephiroth 04-08-2021 13:21
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 36088441)
New charge to visit Europe to be introduced:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.eti...er-brexit/amp/
As I've regularly said, the EC hates the UK for leaving their poxy "union". They'll say that all third-countries will be equally treated, but the EC will be laughing up their sleeves.

I hope that in addition to not buying French cars, Brits will eschew EU holiday destinations. It's a power we hold.

We've stopped buying French wine and cheese along with a lot of Waitrose customers that I know.

mrmistoffelees 04-08-2021 13:36
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36088444)
As I've regularly said, the EC hates the UK for leaving their poxy "union". They'll say that all third-countries will be equally treated, but the EC will be laughing up their sleeves.

I hope that in addition to not buying French cars, Brits will eschew EU holiday destinations. It's a power we hold.

We've stopped buying French wine and cheese along with a lot of Waitrose customers that I know.

I presume you're not buying anything from the US in that case, as they also charge for an ESTA ? Or, for that matter, any other country that charges an entry fee.

You're coming across like a spoilt child.

BenMcr 04-08-2021 14:12
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36088444)
As I've regularly said, the EC hates the UK for leaving their poxy "union". They'll say that all third-countries will be equally treated, but the EC will be laughing up their sleeves.

I hope that in addition to not buying French cars, Brits will eschew EU holiday destinations. It's a power we hold.

We've stopped buying French wine and cheese along with a lot of Waitrose customers that I know.
You mean the one that was proposed before the vote to leave?

https://ec.europa.eu/home-affairs/wh...rders/etias_en
Quote:
The European Commission first introduced the idea of a ETIAS in April 2016 in the Communication "Stronger and Smarter Information Systems for Borders and Security"Search for available translations of the preceding linkEN••• and adopted the proposal on 16 November 2016. After negotiations with the European Parliament and the Council the ETIAS Regulation (EU) 2018/1240 was adopted on 12 September 2018 and entered into force on 9 October 2018.

Sephiroth 04-08-2021 14:18
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36088446)
I presume you're not buying anything from the US in that case, as they also charge for an ESTA ? Or, for that matter, any other country that charges an entry fee.

You're coming across like a spoilt child.
We didn't leave the US.

Hugh 04-08-2021 14:53
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 36088441)
New charge to visit Europe to be introduced:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.eti...er-brexit/amp/
Quote:
The European Commission has offered free travel for UK travellers who go to EU countries for short stays, as long as the UK agrees to do the same for EU nationals. If the UK accepts this offer, it will still be necessary to complete the ETIAS application though there would not be a fee.

The European Commission has said the EU’s offer was “entirely conditional upon the UK also granting reciprocal and non-discriminatory visa-free travel for all EU member states.”

Pierre 04-08-2021 16:07
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
From 2023.

mrmistoffelees 04-08-2021 16:10
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36088456)
We didn't leave the US.
Aaah i see, so we're back to the we don't want to be part of your organisation BUT we do want to retain the same benefits that we had whilst being a member?

Are you that delusional ???

BenMcr 04-08-2021 16:17
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36088474)
From 2023.
And potentially from 2025 for us to charge the EU citizens

https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-c...itizens-visit/

Quote:
LONDON — The British government confirmed plans to charge EU citizens and other foreign nationals to visit, as part of a wider reform aimed at making the border more secure.
Quote:
The ETA is expected to come into force by 2025, but according to Salma Shah, a former special adviser to Sajid Javid when he was home secretary, “we are probably going to see a lot more ... changes before we see a real settled immigration pattern and practicalities around how we deliver the immigration system.”

RichardCoulter 04-08-2021 16:47
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
That link I posted says thay it's from the of 2022??

Apparently, the charge isn't for a visa, (so I'm assuming that we must have agreed a reciprocal agreement with them), but is a charge for a scheme that entitles us to not to have to pay for a visa!?

jonbxx 04-08-2021 16:49
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36088463)
The European Commission has offered free travel for UK travellers who go to EU countries for short stays, as long as the UK agrees to do the same for EU nationals. If the UK accepts this offer, it will still be necessary to complete the ETIAS application though there would not be a fee.

The European Commission has said the EU’s offer was “entirely conditional upon the UK also granting reciprocal and non-discriminatory visa-free travel for all EU member states.”
The UK confirmed it was going to charge EU citizens back in May - https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-c...itizens-visit/ with confirmation here - https://www.etauk.uk/

I have to say, €7 is a bargain compared to an ESTA for the US at $14. Mine always seems to run out just before I need to travel...

1andrew1 04-08-2021 17:06
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36088475)
Aaah i see, so we're back to the we don't want to be part of your organisation BUT we do want to retain the same benefits that we had whilst being a member?
I'm afraid he's right, Seph. You can't leave the golf club but still expect to play on its greens at no cost.

BenMcr 04-08-2021 17:16
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 36088487)
Apparently, the charge isn't for a visa, (so I'm assuming that we must have agreed a reciprocal agreement with them), but is a charge for a scheme that entitles us to not to have to pay for a visa!?
Yes, same as the US and Canada have for us today.

Sephiroth 04-08-2021 19:15
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36088494)
I'm afraid he's right, Seph. You can't leave the golf club but still expect to play on its greens at no cost.
Leaving the EU and leaving a golf club have no parallels.
For example, you can leave a golf club without negotiating a withdrawal agreement; you can leave a golf club without setting up an NI Protocol.

---------- Post added at 18:15 ---------- Previous post was at 18:14 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36088475)
Aaah i see, so we're back to the we don't want to be part of your organisation BUT we do want to retain the same benefits that we had whilst being a member?

Are you that delusional ???
Don't be ridiculous. You suggested that my attitude meant that I wouldn't be buying anything from the US. Whereas I was making the point that EU would try and hurt us at every opportunity.

mrmistoffelees 04-08-2021 20:44
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36088522)
Leaving the EU and leaving a golf club have no parallels.
For example, you can leave a golf club without negotiating a withdrawal agreement; you can leave a golf club without setting up an NI Protocol.

---------- Post added at 18:15 ---------- Previous post was at 18:14 ----------



Don't be ridiculous. You suggested that my attitude meant that I wouldn't be buying anything from the US. Whereas I was making the point that EU would try and hurt us at every opportunity.
If the majority of the British population follow the behaviour of your local
Waitrose then the only thing hurting will be EU due to a lack of tourists.

It’s what £8 ? Talk about making a mountain of a molehill

Sephiroth 04-08-2021 20:54
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36088542)
If the majority of the British population follow the behaviour of your local
Waitrose then the only thing hurting will be EU due to a lack of tourists.

It’s what £8 ? Talk about making a mountain of a molehill
Now you're being silly. The cost of the EU visa (if it goes ahead) never figured in my assessment. I merely emphasised that if the EU can hurt the UK, it will with a smirk.

mrmistoffelees 04-08-2021 20:56
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36088544)
Now you're being silly. The cost of the EU visa (if it goes ahead) never figured in my assessment. I merely emphasised that if the EU can hurt the UK, it will with a smirk.

How exactly is it hurting the U.K. ?

Sephiroth 04-08-2021 21:32
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36088545)
How exactly is it hurting the U.K. ?
I'll bring you back to what I said in response to RC's post reporting that the EU were going to slap a visa fee on UK citizens:

Quote:
As I've regularly said, the EC hates the UK for leaving their poxy "union". They'll say that all third-countries will be equally treated, but the EC will be laughing up their sleeves.

spiderplant 04-08-2021 21:44
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonbxx (Post 36088489)
I have to say, €7 is a bargain compared to an ESTA for the US at $14.
And even more so compared with this...
https://www.gov.uk/get-electronic-visa-waiver

mrmistoffelees 04-08-2021 21:54
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36088549)
I'll bring you back to what I said in response to RC's post reporting that the EU were going to slap a visa fee on UK citizens:

So, this doesn’t just apply to the U.K. we’re not being singled out.

you’re making this up to suit your own agenda,

---------- Post added at 20:54 ---------- Previous post was at 20:49 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonbxx (Post 36088489)
The UK confirmed it was going to charge EU citizens back in May - https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-c...itizens-visit/ with confirmation here - https://www.etauk.uk/

I have to say, €7 is a bargain compared to an ESTA for the US at $14. Mine always seems to run out just before I need to travel...

Try Global Entry $100 USD every five years…. I put it on my card pick up points etc as I do with flights and accommodation and then expense it back

Sephiroth 04-08-2021 22:02
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36088552)
So, this doesn’t just apply to the U.K. we’re not being singled out.

you’re making this up to suit your own agenda,
<SNIP>
You're making things up. I simply said that they'd be laughing up their sleeves (at the inconvenience to which the UK would be put).

mrmistoffelees 04-08-2021 22:05
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36088555)
You're making things up. I simply said that they'd be laughing up their sleeves (at the inconvenience to which the UK would be put).
You have no evidence to support that, but you so desperately want it to be true.

Sephiroth 04-08-2021 22:11
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36088556)
You have no evidence to support that, but you so desperately want it to be true.
See the French/Irish bragging over 2nd jabs for details.

1andrew1 05-08-2021 10:45
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36088557)
See the French/Irish bragging over 2nd jabs for details.
Same as the UK bragging over vaccination roll-out. Doesn't mean the UK is punishing the EU and hopefully it incentivises countries to roll out vaccines faster.

Sephiroth 05-08-2021 11:15
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36088595)
Same as the UK bragging over vaccination roll-out. Doesn't mean the UK is punishing the EU and hopefully it incentivises countries to roll out vaccines faster.
Not the same at all. First, the French Commissioner started the bragging; then the Irish Teashop jumped in followed by the Irish Tainasty. That's the EU taking a poke at the UK.

Second, what's this confection of the the UK punishing the EU? Boris is a bumbling bragger and some of his team follow his lead. Why introduce that stupid point?

And remember the context: The EU tried to prevent us receiving vaccines. They are the enemy. Simples.

mrmistoffelees 05-08-2021 12:03
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36088603)
Not the same at all. First, the French Commissioner started the bragging; then the Irish Teashop jumped in followed by the Irish Tainasty. That's the EU taking a poke at the UK.

Second, what's this confection of the the UK punishing the EU? Boris is a bumbling bragger and some of his team follow his lead. Why introduce that stupid point?

And remember the context: The EU tried to prevent us receiving vaccines. They are the enemy. Simples.

As far as i can surmise you're an intelligent person, if you fail to see that the EU would seek to punish the UK in certain ways then that's on you. (I'll admit they have in other aspects, but, i don't believe that this is one)

We've left, we need to accept and work with the consequences, constraints and also benefits that come with us leaving.

Will there be benefits? Probably.
Will there be downsides? Absolutely.

Finally, I do wish you would desist with your constant bleating and use of the word 'enemy' to describe the EU it detracts from someone who is skilled at debate.

Thankfully even the most inept politicians seem to realising that such jingoism will not help us develop and forge the relationships we need to compete in the global economy.

Sephiroth 05-08-2021 13:21
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36088617)
As far as i can surmise you're an intelligent person, if you fail to see that the EU would seek to punish the UK in certain ways then that's on you. (I'll admit they have in other aspects, but, i don't believe that this is one)

We've left, we need to accept and work with the consequences, constraints and also benefits that come with us leaving.

Will there be benefits? Probably.
Will there be downsides? Absolutely.

Finally, I do wish you would desist with your constant bleating and use of the word 'enemy' to describe the EU it detracts from someone who is skilled at debate.

Thankfully even the most inept politicians seem to realising that such jingoism will not help us develop and forge the relationships we need to compete in the global economy.
You are right. The visa waiver proposals (if implemented with a payment) will apply equally to all third countries. But please remember what I said earlier:

Quote:
As I've regularly said, the EC hates the UK for leaving their poxy "union". They'll say that all third-countries will be equally treated, but the EC will be laughing up their sleeves.
On the question of calling the EU "the enemy", I take your point. I might desist because I can use other terms such as "punish" and smirk" and so on.

mrmistoffelees 05-08-2021 13:39
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Coming back to this

Quote:
As I've regularly said, the EC hates the UK for leaving their poxy "union". They'll say that all third-countries will be equally treated, but the EC will be laughing up their sleeves.


In the grand scheme of things, so what?

Sephiroth 05-08-2021 14:59
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36088638)
Coming back to this

Quote:
As I've regularly said, the EC hates the UK for leaving their poxy "union". They'll say that all third-countries will be equally treated, but the EC will be laughing up their sleeves.


In the grand scheme of things, so what?
Remains to be seen. Fair enough question - but I’ m really hitting at the EU’s desire to punish the UK through intransigence and smirking etc. They are the …… pits!

1andrew1 05-08-2021 15:14
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Good to see this deal struck.
Quote:
Deal will allow UK performers to do short tours in 19 EU members states visa-free

After the UK left the EU, performers were told they would need permission to work in the places they intended to tour but a deal has been struck with most of the EU's 27 member states.
https://news.sky.com/story/deal-will...-free-12372968

BenMcr 05-08-2021 15:18
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36088650)
Remains to be seen. Fair enough question - but I’ m really hitting at the EU’s desire to punish the UK through intransigence and smirking etc. They are the …… pits!
Or, we're great at punishing ourselves?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...s-enter-europe
Quote:
The British government was one of the “biggest supporters” of EU plans to require non-EU nationals to obtain authorisation and pay a fee to enter the bloc’s passport-free travel zone, the Guardian has learned.

David Cameron’s government backed the idea when it was floated by the European Commission in April 2016, three months before the EU referendum, when few foresaw the €7 (£5.95) fee would one day hit British travellers.
Quote:
If the UK had remained an EU member state, British nationals would be exempt from the form filling and charge – a special status that non-Schengen Ireland has today.

TheDaddy 05-08-2021 15:19
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36088650)
Remains to be seen. Fair enough question - but I’ m really hitting at the EU’s desire to punish the UK through intransigence and smirking etc. They are the …… pits!
The Bank of England said earlier that brexit has cost the country £440 million per week since we left in lost growth, the EU don't need to punish us or laugh at us and that's a conservative estimate by all accounts to btw

BenMcr 05-08-2021 16:38
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36088656)
Maybe or maybe not

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...untries-brexit

Quote:
Trade bodies and unions representing British musicians have expressed frustration at a government announcement on European work visas that they say changes nothing.

Musicians and performers continue to accuse the government of ignoring their plight by failing to negotiate any Brexit deal that would reinstate the previous visa-free working arrangements.
With this statement I can understand why those working in the industry would like a better resolution:
Quote:
“I’m feeling frustrated and really, really concerned about the future of our industry and the ability to tour in Europe. It is by far our biggest market … it is four times the size of the US market for British artists – it is huge.”


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