Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

aah, taking stuff out of context (in the link) and applying it to your agenda I see.

Well you can tell Mr Grove when you meet him that he didn't ask me what I voted for, so should stop telling others that he did :p:

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Boris needs to come up with a solution to the Irish border and the deal's done. He has failed the country by not doing so and is suffering the consequences. The Leader of the House is literally asleep on the job and Jezza is running rings around him in PMQs.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Easy . . tell the EU that we're quite happy with an open border, but if they insist on there being a hard border they can build it, man it, and manage it ;)

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Maybe he'll hand over the running of the country to an unelected Australian who's overly fond of a glass or two!
Wait, he's already done that!

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

and there's me thinking the EU consisted of unelected people fond of a glass or two :D

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Must be a different PMQs to the one I watch. What channel can I catch it on?

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

What deal is to be done? Have the EU presented a potential deal? No, they haven't. It is the EU kicking up a fuss over the Irish border. Has anybody else come up with an agreeable solution, that doesn't involve being controlled by the EU? And all without having a say on anything. and no equivalent to Article 50 to get us out in the future.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Seems like a solid plan!

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Which is probably no different to handing over the running of our country to unelected non British europeans......... ;)

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Indeed, replace Australian with Luxembourgian, and that’s what Parliament have done.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

https://twitter.com/dngbbc/status/11...itics-49557734

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

That’s really really interesting....................................... .................................................. ..

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

The rebel bill may not become law before Parliament is prorogued on Monday. As of right now the Lords is debating a business motion designed to allow it to fast-track approval of the bill in a similar way to its treatment in the Commons. However, Brexiteer Lords have so far tabled 102 amendments to the business motion. The way the Lords operates compels it to debate every one of the amendments and to vote on each one twice. The rule of thumb is to allow one hour per amendment. The rules also permit continuous sitting until the agenda is cleared, but that means they’re looking at more than 100 hours of continuous debate. That takes them well into Saturday evening, and at that point they haven’t even begun debating the anti no deal bill.

If the Brexiteers in the Lords have themselves well organised and they’ve got enough Red Bull, then they will stall the bill until it is forcibly killed off by prorogation.

https://order-order.com/2019/09/04/r...r-legislation/

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

What, the fact that it would be impossible to get agreement for a new deal in under a fortnight?

Fairly relevant, I would have thought*...

*unless, of course, it was all a sham and the intention was to run the clock down and crash out with no deal

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Structure's been laid out, first thing is to sign up to withdrawal agreement negotiated with Theresa May, leave EU then finalise trade deal.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

And what have been the new proposals from the EU?

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Nothing to see here, don't worry about the UK negotiating team being laid off, move along now ladies and gentlemen. ;)

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

As per usual, the commentariat makes the mistake of trying to attack Boris by taking his words super-literally, rather than considering how his words affect his chosen audience. His opponents choose to caricature him as a British Donald Trump, yet they seem serially unable to learn the one obvious lesson arising from that. Enough people like what he says well enough to keep supporting him.

But by all means, keep on pointing and sniggering about factual inaccuracies in rhetoric that ultimately make precisely no difference whatsoever to the outcome of anything at all.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

One can only hope. But it’s a bit desperate isn’t it.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

They're still waiting BoJo's amazing proposals.

---------- Post added at 21:29 ---------- Previous post was at 21:28 ----------

That's the Cummings approach - desperate or courageous. Take your pick.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

I don’t know where you have been for the last six months, but that deal has been rejected by Parliament 3 times and will not be brought back.

Can you come up with another first thing?

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Fight fire with fire ... the Opposition has been playing fast and loose with convention in order to get this far. They shouldn’t dish it out if they can’t take it. I think it’s past time for a bit of good old fashioned filibustering.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Damian Grammaticas?

Does he work in, or for, the EU then? Does he lead an EU member state?

Does he control EU policy?

Just checking.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Well I voted to crash out with a no deal I fully understood what I was voting for but well you can't help the stupid that didn't understand they shouldn't have voted in that instant. As for the remain camp there should be a law past stopping them getting involved it's nothing to do with them after the vote.

I don't see the point of having a PM if the house can take control at any time

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Seems a good plan, almost as clever as the one where we keep kicking the can down the road with extension after extension . .

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Out of interest, as I honestly don’t know. What is the status of the upper house.

We have remainer House of Commons, how so the lords?

I would have thought the same, as the lords are even more on the gravey train than the commons, but less egos.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

If that is the case, then why hasn't that "deal"(whatever it's meant to be) been presented instead of the Withdrawal Agreement? If that is the case then there would supposedly be no need for any backstop, because everything else would supposedly be sewn up pretty quickly.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

No surprise here.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

It's the EU that isn't remotely prepared to budge on anything

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Indeed, the legislators taking on the role of the executive. What’s the point of the whole sorry mess. They should all resign they’re an embarrassment, and the fact they don’t have the necessary appendages to have an election. Non of them have any credibility.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

seconded . . all those in favour say 'aye' :D

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

That's because Prime Ministers are never elected except as MPs. Those elected as MPs can vote. This is the checks and balances we have in the HoP. On top this of course we have the House of Lords. Even countries like the US with directly-elected presidents don't necessarily have absolute control of their Houses.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

why would opposition fall for a blatant tory trap so he could do a no deal Brexit when house are totally against no deal

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

The Lords are very remainy because they are drawn disproportionately from the political and business elites who tend to like the EU. Tory Lords are in a minority, as well, but that’s of only passing relevance in these strange times.

The workings of the Lords are sufficiently different that it doesn’t always come down to who has a majority for one thing or another. I imagine that’s why Cameron and May never thought it important enough to create enough Tory peers to redress the imbalance, despite having had 9 years and the absolute power to do so (power to advise HM, who always assents).

It is much more difficult to change the way in which the Lords works in order to fast-track a bill, in the way it was done in the Commons today. The business motion that was put down in order to try to achieve it is subject to the delaying tactics that it seeks to set aside. Those tactics don’t require the support of a majority of members, they just need a core of sufficiently motivated members to collaborate on the production and prosecution of oodles of amendments, which is what they’re doing right now, and also why their lordships have been seen arriving at Westminster with sleeping bags today. :D

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

They've not been offered this miracle solution by BoJo yet to consider. And the team that was lined up to them have been mostly laid off.

---------- Post added at 21:50 ---------- Previous post was at 21:47 ----------

I'd be intrigued to understand. I'm guessing the Carth has is that he feels zero hours contracts may be hiding true employment figures. That's not a statement against Brexit or the current government, more the methodology, globally accepted or otherwise.

---------- Post added at 21:52 ---------- Previous post was at 21:50 ----------

Yeas, even Jezza is not that stupid. And Blair did warn him too.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

That my friend is bollocks

Within the House of Commons we have the Executive (the Government), and the legislators (everyone else).

If the legislators are not happy with the Executive then they call a motion of “no confidence” and either replace the Executive or call for an election.

What they don’t do is take the place of the Executive, on selective motions, which is exactly what they have done.

Our Parliamentary Processes have been ripped up and thrown out, and may never be the same again.

---------- Post added at 21:56 ---------- Previous post was at 21:54 ----------

Because, they are going against convention. They should call a motion of no confidence. If they win it fine, the government falls.

If they lose it, then let the government govern.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Because the secondary trap is the political price Corbyn will now pay when there eventually is an election (and make no mistake there is going to be one before the end of the year). The SNP is already sharpening its knives up here, where Labour is in a very precarious position, haemorrhaging its unionist vote to the Tories while working class Clydesiders and Dundonians have long abandoned them for the cod-leftism of the nats. There are plenty of places in the north of England also, where Labour’s attempt to derail Brexit and then avoid facing the electorate will go down like a cup of cold sick.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

I thought you kept saying the EU were not interested in renegotiating?

Sort of, the '7% rise' in unemployment would be due to loss of jobs, but I'd guess at least 50% of those who lose a job will find work through agencies (zero hour stuff) on probably 2 days a week . . and would therefore be then classed as employed again . . thus reducing that 7% figure by quite a bit ;)

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

they making sure no deal cant happen on 31st October and not falling for a trap then will be a election when bill passed into law Johnson knows trap was only way he could get a no deal

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

So the EU haven't offered they own solution to their own conjured up problem. Then again absolutely nobody else has, apart from remaining in the EU. They created the notion of the backstop.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

By going against all previous conventions, which as an unwritten constitution, it all we have to go on.

They’ve stepped over the line.

---------- Post added at 22:04 ---------- Previous post was at 22:01 ----------

If I was BoJo, given how this has come about, I would just flat out refuse to approach the EU for an extension.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

You can kick the can farther down the road as many times as you like, but ultimately there has to be an end to it. Three options will be available IMO

1) The EU will eventually decide to negotiate a deal to satisfy both parties (global recession looming? )

2) We will leave without a deal

3) Article 50 will be revoked

Two of the above will not have a happy ending ;)

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Your post manages to tangle itself up in contradictions. "What they don’t do is take the place of the Executive, on selective motions, which is exactly what they have done." So, which is it? Either you think they're taking the place of the legislature or you don't think they are.

I am focusing on the current reality, not what may have been the case before BoJo was PM and rule books were thrown out of the window.

---------- Post added at 22:10 ---------- Previous post was at 22:06 ----------

If you kick the tin can down the road long enough, these magical technological solutions for the 400-mile Irish border may be invented. I'm surprised that one of the 17.4million has not done so yet. ;)

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

I did, a couple of pages back :D

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

No it doesn’t, you are just having a hard time understanding. I thought I was quite clear.

If Parliament has an issue with the Executive and believes they are pursuing and action that is reckless or may harm the nation.

What they should do is call for a motion of “ no confidence” and either replace the government with another one that commands support from the house or trigger an election.

What they shouldn’t do is take the place of the Executive by controlling the order paper of the house to control the house on selective matters and push through legislation, which is what they have done.

They have gone against the conventions of our unwritten constitution.

Is that clear enough for you? Or should I draw some pictures too.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Seems to me remainers are more bothered that leaving will affect how much benefits they will get inc MP's seen as they sponge off the state.

Wish I could revoke part of my tax that is paid to the traitors not standing by my vote.

Like I have said before if they can do this with a referendum vote then I'm sure they will now try this crap with an election.

---------- Post added at 22:25 ---------- Previous post was at 22:20 ----------

They didn't do this when it came to the iraq war even thoough there was enough protesting against it.

they've all gone power mad, even Corbyn himself said he wants to make johnson look a fool by making him ask the EU for an extension. it's not about the people but Ego's.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Is it only the PM that can request another extension?

Can the PM be forced into doing so . . and how?

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

The bill currently passing through parliament is intended to create a law forcing the Prime Minister to request an extension.

Boris, the PM, is the head of government and therefore has the UK’s seat at the European Council where any such request would be considered.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Yes, I was so foolish as to believe what Boris states is going to happen to be factual (btw, love the phrase "super-literally"; Is it the truth? Is it a lie? It’s Superliterally!") - you appear to be stating we shouldn’t believe what he says, just like it...

On a separate, yet related note, Boris is setting new records, and going down (ooo-errr, missus) in history -

He became the first PM to lost their first vote in office since 1783
- Blair suffered 4 defeats in 10 years.
- Thatcher suffered 4 in 11 years.
- Cameron 10 times in 6 years.
- May 33 times in 2 years.
- Johnson 4 times in 2 DAYS.

All this WINNING¡¡¡

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

You fail to grasp that you described something in the past as both happwning and not happening at the same time. Or to fully apprecoate that conventions went out of the window when BoJo became PM. 21 MPs sacked. Unheard of but this is the new norm.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

But as, has been deliciously suggested, as a member of the council he could also veto it?

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

It's called a cabinet reshuffle. Happens all the time.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Since Boris stopped British attendance to the Council from the 1st of September, it would be difficult...

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a9072956.html

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

No I didn’t. You obviously still don’t understand what I said, i’ll Get the crayons out.

How so?

Not relevant, also they haven’t been sacked.......yet, only the electorate can do that.

---------- Post added at 22:53 ---------- Previous post was at 22:51 ----------

Wasn’t even that, the whip was withdrawn, effectively making them independents, that’s all.

---------- Post added at 22:55 ---------- Previous post was at 22:53 ----------

Fair enough. Like I said earlier, if I was him i’d Just stay at home in my pajamas and eat toast until November 1st.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Sigh. Really? Come on. You’ve been close enough to the machinery behind all of this to know better. Even if you hadn’t, I thought your contributions here might be at least a little above the level of Twitter factoids.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Oh right, I see now thanks

But taking it further, if Boris says get lost and then resigns on . . ooh lets say Oct 24th, who would then be the one to do the deed . . Deputy PM or doesn't it work like that?

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

When a PM resigns, they do so face to face with the Queen, and advise her maj who to appoint in their place, and that person is invited to the palace within an hour or so. So whoever replaced Boris would be in post almost immediately and they would have the responsibility to go to Brussels.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

screwed if you do, screwed if you don't then . . . and another £39 billion into the EU to keep them afloat

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Just reading up on options.

To force an election BoJo could take the unprecedented step to call a No Confidence motion on himself and then direct all his MPs to abstain.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

The backstop is meant to be about regulatory alignment. Well guess what, even without the backstop, day 1 of Brexit would still have UK wide regulatory alignment. Even imports from non-EU countries will still have the same EU compliance.

ECJ rules on those regulations in the EU, the UK rules on them in the UK. Nothing wrong in that. If and when, any regulations diverge then it becomes more complicated. But it is still no different to current EU countries trading with each other. Eg recent case of company in the Czech Republic(?) selling non-EU compliant goods, or several EU countries selling horse meat masquerading as beef. Any future divergence in regulatory alignment is not likely to be that great in nature and will take time.

So what exactly is the EUs problem?

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Presumably that on Day 2 that could change?

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Looks like an election in November then.

Can’t wait.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Hung parliament , landslide or a overall majority?..

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Timing is still everything here.

The great Lords filibuster came to a sudden halt at around 1.30am today, and el gov is now assuring everyone that the Benn Bill ‘will be ready’ for Royal Assent on Monday. It seems a deal is on the table; my guess would be for a general election motion and the Benn Bill to be approved at the same time immediately before prorogation. A bit like two people pointing guns at each other and agreeing to slowly lower them at the same time.

But predictions are a mug’s game at the moment, so we will just have to wait and see.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Are there plans for any changes in the pipeline? They don't happen from initial idea to implementation overnight.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Exactly. If we'rr going to have to adhere permanently to EU rules and regulations without having a say in them to keep such a border, we may as well stay in the EU and have a say.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Churchill (speaking in 1938 post Munich as he was shunned by the party and faced deselection) disagrees:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EDj69iuX...jpg&name=small

---------- Post added at 08:48 ---------- Previous post was at 08:43 ----------

What is not being discussed (much) is if Johnson can veto his own request for an extension?

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

The wording of the Benn Bill seems to suggest they think it would be possible under the provisions of the Lisbon Treaty for the PM to just veto any offer the EU made. The Bill details what the PM is allowed to do under various possible outcomes and what parliament’s role would be.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Have a say? Since when? Any objections would be overruled.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Boris Johnson's personality has made the Brexit crisis worse

https://news.sky.com/story/boris-joh...worse-11802482

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Not at the European Council.

Article 50(4) prevents this. At the European Commission meeting about the Article 50 extension in April, Theresa May was present as a guest, not a member of the Council (unlike June this year).

https://www.consilium.europa.eu/medi...mbinoscope.pdf

---------- Post added at 10:23 ---------- Previous post was at 10:21 ----------

I have to say, this third series of the reality TV show "Worst Prime Minister Ever" is really good... ;)

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Must have missed the bit when Remainers were supposedly not awkward, disruptive, or belligerent. It didn't all mysteriously start when Boris became PM.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

tbf, BJ was awkward, disruptive, and belligerent before he became PM...

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

I haven't read the trade deal with the Palestinian Authority in great detail to be honest.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

What else can you expect of someone who has a narcissistic personality..

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Even if he was, then that's still nothing at all to do with the Brexit crisis.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

yep and the leavers all told us it was gonna be great but we did tell them he be a disaster you notice OB has disappeared from this thread

Jo Johnson resigns as a MP

https://news.sky.com/story/live-chan...ecide-11802523

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Ouch.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

prove how bad Boris is even his own brother cant stay on

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Boris Johnson and Jeremy Corbyn what a terrible choice for many voters to have to make.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

yes next election going to be worse choice in Britain's history 2 worse leaders in history Den

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Oh what a complete shitshow we are witnessing..

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

There's always Nigel.:D

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

no chance he even worse than Boris

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

One Westminster observer immediately summed up his decision to walk out as sending the message: “I’m resigning to spend less time with my family.”

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Any disaster is because of the bad losers in the Remain camp. They are the ones that have created each and every obstacle.

The only acceptable PM to the Remainers is one that would give in to them. Anybody that didn't fit that requirement would have the SAME problems. It's NOT whoever is the PM causing the problems.


The Remainers say "no to no deal", but the fundamental problem with that is that no discussions on a future deal can take place until AFTER Brexit happens.
From the Withdrawal Agreement.
29 March 2019 being the original Brexit date.


In addition to that, it had been agreed that any future deal would respect the 2016 referendum.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Allegedly he was upset about the withdrawal of the whip from those 21 Tories: https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status...63900645445633

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Tamara Cohen
‏Verified account @tamcohen

Jo Johnson was a remainer who resigned from Theresa May’s Government in Nov 2018 saying no deal would “inflict untold damage” on the country.

He and his brother clearly disagree. But to accuse him of betraying national interest on first day of his “election campaign” is 🔥

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Seeing as according to a poll, 68% of those asked said Corbyn would be a disaster as PM, why aren't Labour MPs in the "national interest", resigning in droves?
Link

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Because what people think and the national interest aren't the same thing.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

So only one side gets to decide the "national interest" and not the majority? So much for being in a democracy.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Corbyn and the Labour party are running scared from an election.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

But usually families keep their rows and disagreements in house but obviously he is was very intent on going public and causing maximum political damage to his brother.

It reminds me of the Miliband brothers.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Been admiring the photoshopped front page of a quality tabloid by any chance ?

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Nope. It's obvious, they don't want one before 1st Nov as they know they will lose. If they were confident of winning why not have it on Oct 15th?

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

I don't agree with that analysis.

At the next election if a party includes in their manifesto that they will leave the EU on a certain date with or without a deal and wins with a majority.

Then we will leave and there will be nothing the rest of parliament can do about it.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Of that you are right but the Conservatives want to have a general election held before October the 31st to play into their clear political Brexit narrative but l doubt now that any general election is going to be held before October 31st as both parties continue to play their political games in parliament.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

news flash...........we haven't left.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

They think they can stop brexit but has repeatedly been said before on here one parliament cannot bind another.

When a new goverment is elected they can throw out the no deal bill and leave with no deal in they wish and have a majority.