Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

He's busy viewing houses in Alderley Edge with his winnings from his accumulator bet. :D

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

Yeah, I'm sorry Andrew. I'm a bit bored so I'm teasing :)

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

:):)

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

I dunno fellers, I'm just not in the mood for tit for tat politics anymore. If ever there was a time for unity, it is now. There are too many disaffected groups around and somehow it needs to be stitched together. It is worth stepping back and thinking about it.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

Who knows we are where we are.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

It's where we're going that's more important.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

Indeed and that's out of both our hands the politicians that bought this about need to get their fingers out now.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

There needs to be a source of reliable information for starters: the BBC gave up that mantle in this election. A sophisticated electorate deserves facts.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

There is a website called full facts cant link to it at the mo but if you google it might help.:)

Shortcut to: https://fullfact.org/europe/

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

You might be waiting a while for politicians to ever give us the full true facts as they are experts at lying and hiding behind their petticoats.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

Cheers :) I'm done.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

Have a good afternoon.:)

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

You feeling ok?

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

Unnerving isn't it? ;)

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

I have been feeling like lemming for some considerable time now..Now I'm one in a canoe without a paddle.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

You are lost in the wilderness created by Remoaners. Become a Beleaver and you will be saved :).

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

Talking of religion, there is a Book of Jeremy available for the non-Beleavers:

The Book of Jeremy Corbyn

:)

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

....and lo, he too is lost in the wilderness. Verily, I say unto thee, here endeth the first lesson with the proverb "beware the wolf in sheep's clothing".:)

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

No it's the brexiteers who need to start bailing.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

It is perfectly acceptable to believe in a God that is not the EU, Maggy. ;)

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

:)

Fear not Maggy for mighty dread has seized your troubled mind; glad tidings of great joy I bring to you and all womankind: Steptoe lost.

As for Brexit: En Marche!

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

I'm an atheist so no gods.

---------- Post added at 15:58 ---------- Previous post was at 15:58 ----------

The canoe is still leaking.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

But at least now we can simply bail out the water and fix the leak rather than simply keep paying someone else to tell us how to bail, what size bucket to use and where we can tip the water.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

:clap: Spot on. The corrupted pile of garbage in Brussels, has been handicapping the UK for years.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

... having had umpteen 'emergency' meetings as the ship went down...

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

HMS Swivel Eyed Loon has sent out a mayday...

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

I'd rather become a belieber :Yikes:

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

Dear Lord.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

Follow the Gourd .. No!!! the Shoe is the sign!

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

Is Ruth Davidson one of these I wonder?

Ruth Davidson suggests Theresa May ready to change strategy towards softer Brexit

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

That's one major problem that is at the heart of our social and health care problems. Good social and health care costs money, whether it is provided by the state or a private company.

The problem comes because people want the good care, but as soon as you mention that it'll cost them a few more pence in the pound in tax, they start complaining about "rip off Britain", and in the next election vote for the party that says they are going to reduce tax.

I remember a few years ago, the Lib Dems were campaigning for an election. They outlined some excellent looking plans for improving various aspects of our lives. Then said they would have to raise Income Tax by 1 or 2p in the pound. The Tories said they would cut income tax and won the election.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

She is pushing for 'soft' Brexit but she isn't in the cabinet. Philip Hammond on the other hand has already expressed that they should prioritise the economy and he's the chancellor. Wouldn't be surprised if he were involved.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

Didn't Farron get caught out at one of the Leader Q&A's this time around by constantly referring to a 1p rise in tax which implied a 1 p(enny) rise to voters but really he meant 1p(ercent)? The sneaky barsteward.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

Possibly, although as I have noted elsewhere (possibly on this forum as well, but I cannot be bothered to look), thanks largely to the "news" media's determination to spend their time attacking Jeremy Corbyn or Theresa May rather than actually, you know, giving us the news, I've had difficulty finding out exactly what Tim Farron (or any other Lib Dem) has said about anything beyond homosexuality.

That said, if he actually said "1 p in the pound" (which is how they often describe the tax right), it's entirely possible the media just left off the "in the pound" bit. Of course, it's possible he did that as well.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...e-soft-brexit/

it's nice the parties are working together I think ;) The swivel eyed loons are outnumbered, massively now.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

Simon Schama gives damning indictment of Theresa May.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/KP_u1DSE3qQ

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entr...b024026879ec5e

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

Since income tax is measured by percent, I would think thats what he means.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

Yup. Politicians sometimes say in pence for some reason. So 20p tax rate etc. You would have to be an utter moron to think tax would raise by 1p

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

Seems even the Gove-meister is seeking consensus:

Michael Gove: Brexit 'consensus' needed after general election

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

They usually refer to penny(ies) in the pound which is effectively a percentage.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

Because he knows that JC is a not-so-closet Brexiter?

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

Worth remembering at this point that the Labour manifesto explicitly states that its policy is we leave the single market upon leaving the EU.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

Agreed.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

Well he would, wouldn't he? :rolleyes:

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

... and so would George Osborne. Not exactly a surprise eh.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

That's right, which means that about 80% of the electorate voted for a hard Brexit. So why do so many remainers think that the Prime Minister's lack of a majority will affect that?

We cannot control immigration and have control over our own laws AND remain in the single market. The EU leaders have said so.

So the only way for the Conservative and Labour manifestos to be fulfilled is a hard Brexit.

I am surprised that so many remain confused about this. Hard Brexit means hard Brexit! There, that should do it. :D

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

Can you remind me where it says this? I looked at this page:

http://www.labour.org.uk/index.php/manifesto2017/brexit

and struggled to find the explicit statement you mentioned. Must be going blind in my old age!

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

They're not confused, they just don't accept the result of the referendum and will say anything to try keep us in.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

Sorry, I thought we were all experts by now. For the avoidance of doubt "access to" and "membership of" are two entirely different things. So when the manifesto states, for example:

"A Labour government will end the uncertainty for our farmers and food producers by securing continued EU market access allowing British farmers and food producers to continue to sell their products on the Continent."

It is quite clear that Labour has accepted that we're leaving the single market and must instead negotiate preferential access to it.

They also say this:

"We will scrap the Conservatives’ Brexit White Paper and replace it with fresh negotiating priorities that have a strong emphasis on retaining the benefits of the Single Market and the Customs Union – which are essential for maintaining industries, jobs and businesses in Britain."

The benefits of. Not the membership of.

Apologies if that wasn't explicit enough for you ... I really thought it was.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

You may think you are an expert but, hey, what do experts know, right? ;) There is too much FUD in this process for anyone to call out anything with 100% certainty.

Interesting times ..

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

To add to what Chris has posted I would've thought this would be edxplicit enough.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

The thing is that a certain proportion of remainers such as Clegg have a vested interest in portraying those who wish to leave the EU as rabid xenophobes who can't wait to haul up the draw bridge and fill the channel tunnel with concrete. It's quite disingenuous and they know it but they feel it's their only chance of undermining the negotiations and hopefully overturning the referendum result. Most people I know who want to leave the EU have no interest in little England or little UK for that matter, they just want the UK to be able to have back the controls various governments have ceded to the EU. They still want to be part of and play a part in Europe as the UK always has.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

Thats all most of us want. No doom and gloom just to be able to decide our own future and work with the EU if they wish and with anyone else in the world.

We are not Xenophobes or Europhiles, just EUophiles.;)

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

Wouldn't being an Euophile mean you actually liked it?

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

Oooops TD, how right you are.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

Surely that just joins us to Europe and makes it easier not harder to get here?

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...y_to_clipboard

More democracy deniers I should think, or realists having to deal with the suicide note we've written ourselves.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

More rubbish from a remoaner rag. :zzz:

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

No, it's from a Tory peer, knight of the realm and leading businessman Mick.
:zzz: is about right from those that choose to ignore these warnings.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

Ignore them because they are incorrect fabricated rubbish, just like warning of a world war, an emergency budget etc etc. All these things Remainers warned could happen after we voted leave and have not happened.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

A remain supporter using any chance to further the remain agenda there's a shocker, the last general election was not a vote on brexit in anyway shape or form and just because those who want to derail brexit say it was doesn't make it so. Democracy just isn't accepted by some unless it's the result they want then they are all in favour of democracy if it goes against them then it's time for change and we are slowly moving towards rule by the loudest group.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

Hmm hasn't the £ slumped 15% since the Brexit vote? Isn't the growth rate in the UK now the lowest in the whole of the EU?

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

Given the amount of doom talk I'm surprised it isn't worse and it's exactly what the remain faction want the more the better for them lets talk again in 7 years on how things pan out.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

The point I was making was that it's wrong to say that none of the predicted economic issues hasn't occurred as at least two have. I'm not trying to retread old arguments.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

Oh yes you are andrew your a one track record and the negative things have only happened because of people like you in positions that you'd think they would know better constantly talking down everything UK and a constant drip, drip of negative predictions as nothing has changed in any practical sense. That's the most depressing aspect of this whole EU situation the number of UK people who would happily sell the UK down the river to stay with their beloved EU and will not consider anything positive about it but are constantly talking everything down.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

British people have changed their minds on Brexit, poll finds

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7795591.html

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

Of course they have you know what I'm sorry i voted leave I'm sorry a majority voted leave and that a bunch of self entitled prats didn't get their way to be honest fast getting sick and tired of the whole country.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

And these same fake polls said TM would still get a comfortable majority..... Go figure.... :cool:

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

I wish just one of the many remoaners here would quote Article 50 to show where a soft Brexit is remotely possible.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

They won't and they can't because anyone whose read article 50 knows it only allows for hard exit from the EU that's how the EU designed it as a form of deterrent for any member thinking of leaving and anytime one of the EU fans is asked they go quiet till the next inevitable doom story comes along. This whole process has shown what an awful group of people we have in the UK.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

Have l ever quoted it? as l accepted Brexit a long time ago.:)

---------- Post added at 05:47 ---------- Previous post was at 05:45 ----------

They are entitled to their beliefs as you and other's are so less of the insults as that gets nobody anywhere.

---------- Post added at 05:49 ---------- Previous post was at 05:47 ----------

They should have asked someone like you.:)

---------- Post added at 05:50 ---------- Previous post was at 05:49 ----------

Nice to be called a self entitled prat like many others as l accepted Brexit a long time ago.:)

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

It's not a belief it's a delusion that goes against the clear evidence and when you can easily find out something cannot be done but continue on about it your going to be viewed as an idiot. If as you say you accepted brexit then it clearly doesn't apply to you does it.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

That happened because the remainers said it would happen and for NO OTHER REASON. If the money markets are led to believe that everybody else will sell the £, then they are FORCED to sell in order to get the best price. As a result of everybody selling because they were led to believe that everybody else would sell, the price of the £ dropped. A self-fulling prophecy. Similarly if enough people are led to believe the value of a business or currency will rise, they will buy shares/currency, thereby raising the value. Nothing concrete has to happen, merely a strength of belief that something will.

What about the growth rate in the rest of the EU before now? Over a longer period the UK's will still have been better. The RATE of growth will be affected by it's starting point. Starting from a low point will tend to give initial sharp rises, whereas an established growth rate will not continue be so meteoric as a lot of the capacity for growth has already happened.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

I lot of the EU growth discrepancy is down to the recovery of the Eurozone rather than the UK dropping IIRC

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

lol. I thought carefully last night - is it better for me to challenge an incorrect post with evidence and risk people trying to fight old battles or shall I just say nothing. I posted thinking forum posters can see what the debate is and won't try and re-run old arguments. My bad.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

So no evidence of the soft brexit you want then colour me shocked.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

Where does it say that;

I'm not a lawyer but it only seems to detail the process for leaving, not what happens afterwards

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

I didn't say you had. I just want someone, anyone to show where in Article 50 the possiblity of a soft Brexit exists.

On another note.

The FTSE 100 is buoyant as Brexit talks begin

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

It doesn't, because "Hard Brexit" and "Soft Brexit" and "Open Brexit" are all made up terms.

The first two I think we can attribute to Tim Farron and the last one to Ruth Davidson.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

3. The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

The EU doesn't want a soft Brexit does it? We kept being told it had to be painful in order to dissuade other countries from going down the same route.

Meanwhile in Labourlalaland, Keir Starmer seems to have quite a different view about Brexit than Corbyn and McDonnell do yet they have the audacity to claim the Tories are in disarray over this matter. :rofl:

https://order-order.com/2017/06/18/l...customs-union/

And here's yet another example of the sort of **** which are underpinning Corbyn and which he's doing precious little about:

https://order-order.com/2017/06/19/c...a-of-the-week/

Labour is infested with this sort of nasty thug.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

As I said, that is the process of leaving, not what happens afterwards. What are our trade negotiators doing in Brussels if we are simply following Article 50 and that's it? Sounds like unelected bureaucrats on a gravy train to me...

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

We have to leave first and then negotiate a trade deal. Egro "soft" Brexit does not exist.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

Not confident on reaching a trade deal before 2019 then?

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

Not at all, 5 yrs later perhaps.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

I hope the talks are proceeding better than the Conservative Party's negotiations with the DUP.
http://news.sky.com/story/dup-talks-...urces-10921500

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

I'm getting right peed off at being told I didn't vote for a hard Brexit.

Well I did and would do it every-time, if we stay in the trade& customs part we will still be under their thumb. so we MUST do nothing but a hard Brexit

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

Remainers honouring their commitment to democracy by trying to circumvent it... :rolleyes:

They didn't complain about the referendum or any of the scare tactics when they thought they'd win it hands down but defeat meant it wasn't fair at all...

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

A Swiss perspective on where we are now:

(Brexiteers, best look away now)

THE LAUGHING STOCK OF EUROPE

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

You didn't vote for a hard Brexit David, no one did, the term hadn't been made up when we voted. I'll be nice and leave out the bit where you thought voting out meant we left the echr though and suggest instead of worrying about hard, soft or red white and blue whatevers we just concentrate on getting the best deal we can for ourselves and if that requires a bit of compromise here and there so be it imo

They should laugh, not just at us but at the whole EU, they got the best deal going and then never signed up!!

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

Well given what the term "hard brexit" has come to mean i think you'll find most voted for exactly that an end to our membership of the EU and any and all of it's institutions. That's why i voted leave and it's why many i know voted leave no official connection to the EU anymore then we have we other sovereign states. Remain supporters can bang on all they want about the last election being a vote against a hard brexit doesn't make it true. Yes the UK is a joke in the eyes of many apart from the swiss but then so are france and germany so we are not alone on that front.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

The attitude from France seems to be annoyance rather than mockery. They want us to get on and leave if we're doing so since it's now a year since the vote. So Brexit supporters will find more in common with them they might otherwise think!

Also with the success of pro-European politicians such as Macron, the current assumption Merkel will win re-election in September and the recovery of the Eurozone economies the EU is probably feeling more secure so a 'punishment' in the deal is probably less likely. They obviously won't give us better terms than single-market access, and I think they'll make strong plays to take some industries (Berlin is going in strong on technology start-ups for example), they will likely give tariff-free access IMO.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

If everyone in other countries started worrying what others in another country were saying about them, I think we would be in a long standing never ending World War.

I know I certainly couldn't give a flying duck, what some Swiss person thinks and it does not cause me to regret my vote choice whatsoever.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

The main thing stopping us doing that is the EU's own internal mechanisms which are deliberately complicated and onerous in order to prevent nations just leaving.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

Well it's taken as a while to issue Article 50 but I think the election result annoyed them more than anything else.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

Tough on them. Plenty of what they do is highly annoying which is what led to Brexit in the first place. ;)

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

This definition of Hard Brexit would include the stopping of (off the top of my head);

Assurance of aircraft safety and freedom to fly across Europe (SES agreement)
Sharing of criminal data (Europol)
Harmonisation of drug regulation allowing free import/export of medicines (EMA)
Harmonisation of food safety standards allowing free import/export of food (EFSA)

Here's a more complete list - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agenci...European_Union

Countries like Switzerland, Norway and Iceland are members of many of these EU institutions quite happily but the definition of hard brexit suggests we would leave. I don't get why we would be better off doing this.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

You're trying to talk common sense jonbxx, they'll have none of it on here, you've been warned ! ;)

An example is when recently the EU intervened to stop a drugs company ripping us off for cancer drugs. But no, they're all evil faceless bureaucrats...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-39933916

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 

is it groundhog day again