Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

I know, I posted a link about that dating from 2010 above and they needed help to pull it off. We all know they've been living well beyond their means for decades and they probably hoped EU/Eurozone membership would ensure that their excess would eventually be paid for by others. As it stands they're probably right too because I think a lot of debt is going to be written off in one way or another.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

They didn't need any help. They were doing all of it themselves. All Goldman Sachs did, as other banks have done with other EU countries, is carry out the Greek government requests of a certain type of financial transaction. The loans arranged that way were for £2.8billion, that is a drop in the ocean for Greece. Whether it went on the books or not, was purely down to the Greek government. The same goes for all the other fiddles, eg publicly owned companies running up massive debts on behalf of the government.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

You and I are clearly not going to agree about what constitutes external 'help' and whether it was right morally or otherwise. The fact that other countries and banks have done the same thing doesn't make it any better or worse IMHO. The banking practices which were widespread and accepted/overlooked/turned a blind eye to pre 2008 but aren't now are an example of how what's deemed acceptable and what isn't is subject to change. The Greeks are the issue now and I dare say the extent to which other countries have employed dubious accounting methods in order to hide their economic problems will be more fully exposed in due course and a good number of chickens finally come home to roost.

http://www.theguardian.com/business/...ed-libyan-fund

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_849708.html

Banks clearly aren't immune from wrongdoing as the various regulators prove regularly. with all those heavy fines they impose. Neither are they strangers to legal actions but only the courts can decide what is or isn't legal in the final analysis and only time will tell...

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/4c7b7f2c-3...#axzz3hNpfWsDn

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Does that factor in that the Germans and others have to borrow money in order to give it to Greece? Also half of the Greek debt has already been written off, so where is that in any "calculations".

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Given it was the privately owned portion of the debt that was written down precisely nowhere I would imagine.

---------- Post added at 11:37 ---------- Previous post was at 11:35 ----------

Yes.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

How quickly Germany has forgotten it's past

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Just in case anyone thought this was all over:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/e...e-beckons.html

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

They will get it, the EU has no other option other than the financial collapse of Greece and all that entails for the EU gravy train.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Is the European project failing apart?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34940241


Now who do you think said that? Nigel Farage or French Prime Minister Manuel Valls?

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Are the Euro-worms turning?

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-eu-...0U126M20151218

There's a whole lot of resentment aimed at Germany for one reason or another...

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Just in case anyone out there's still labouring under the impression that the EU is a nice worry free place to be:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36770311

We're certainly not isolated from the fallout but better off as far out of the EU as possible I reckon. There's plenty more bad news on the way from that direction and we need to concentrate on developing trade elsewhere.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36708357

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Now brexit is over the bad news will start coming through again the economic stability of the EU is not good and I'll bet as it gets worse more and more tensions will surface I give it five years tops before it falls apart.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

I tend to agree. There's been precious little mainstream media coverage of what's going on in the EU for a while and you have to wonder why, given the decision we were asked to make. The fundamental problems of the EU/Eurozone remain and precious little seems to be being done.

Urgent reform is needed yet the combination of Merkel's strangelhold on things and the Euro-Egos in Brussels will probably ensure that nothing much happens any time soon. The longer this goes on, the bigger the crisis will be when it eventually comes to a head.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Oh plenty is being done it's Xmas come early for the Germans they are asset stripping as much as they can in Greece and will do the same in Spain, Portugal and maybe Italy and I'm sure France will get in on the act before long. Not much being done to really help Greece but then if they got back on their feet things wouldn't be so cheap to buy your caring, sharing EU at work.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Brexit has caused a revival of EU love in Europe. At least in the short term, so this may not happen.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

EU love amongst the Eurocrats not so much the people. It won't be long before the tensions simmering away between Germany and the southern European countries in particular puts paid to that. The migration problem hasn't gone away, just shifted so I can't see an end to social unrest even if it isn't being reported.

It'd be so nice if Brexit focuses minds on what needs to be done within Europe but I seriously can't see it happening.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Amongst many European citizens there is anything but a rekindling of love for the eu quite the opposite many now want the same vote we just had and more then a couple of countries given the vote would leave. The eu politicians are not even playing nice with each other and tensions are on the rise although most Brits could be forgiven for thinking it was all love and cocoa at bedtime during the referendum as all negative eu related things magically vanished from our screens.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Underestimating the public, in addition to lying, threatening and frightening them, was all part of the cocktail that caused the remain campaign to fail.

Ah well, we're all Leavers now so all's well that ends well :).

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Some interesting and rather worrying information and background on the state of Italy's banks and the dilemma its govt. faces.

http://qz.com/728517/in-the-euro-zon...ng-its-people/

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Yes things are going so well in Europe that the Germans are being told to stockpile emergency supplies of food and water :erm:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-37155060

If it happens it'll be Brexit's fault I'm sure... :D

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

They are obviously preparing to invade Poland. Poland's invaded everywhere else, lets face it...

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Things aren't getting any better in Greece, quite the reverse in fact:

https://www.theguardian.com/business...-declared-over

All good then...

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

The Guardian finally admitting the true cause.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

On the contrary.

It's true that Southern European countries are prone to irresponsible spending. Previously, however, they were able to devalue their currency and carry on. Their money was worth little beyond their borders, but provided they could produce most of what they needed domestically, the internal economy could keep ticking over.

The massive elephant in the guardian newsroom is of course the Euro, which makes the usual club med devaluation strategy impossible.

In fact, impoverishing the populace is quite deliberate - it is an attempt to replicate the effects of devaluing the currency, without actually devaluing it. It's called "internal devaluation". Greece has been sacrificed on the altar of the single currency.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Yes decades of it - institutionalised. All the more reason that Greece should never have been admitted to the Euro-club, then it could have sunk or swum according to it's own decisions. As it is, tied to the Euro...

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Well greece is not likely to be the last one flushed down the EU toilet for the sake of the euro so they will have company soon.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

I quite agree. The Eurocrats are doing their version of rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic IMHO.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-37396796

Let's hope someone in Brussels listens to them. That'd make a nice change eh?...

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

They won't

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-37396805

Maybe it's because they don't want the Roma back?

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

They don't want their share of migrants either but I'm not sure they'll get their way. Merkel won't a mini-clique determining her policy for the EU.

In any event nobody seriously starts any negotiation by acquiescing in advance.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

I wonder if they are going to insist that the US complies with the freedom of movement requirement in order to get a trade deal.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Deals are meant to be a 2-way thing. As the EU is demanding so much from us, perhaps we should demand money from the EU in exchange for easier access to our markets. That might shut them up.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Protests turn nasty in Greece. Thousands of pensioners took to the streets and the police responded with tear gas and baton charges, not to be out done the olds responded in turn by trying to tip a riot van over, many backs and hips were put out in the process

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-riot-van.html

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

The EU is used to telling member states what to do, that coupled with their intransigence and is the reason we are where we are. It's right that we should be making demands of our own and they'll just have to live with that. If we can't agree then there'll be a price to pay for them. The outcome will be what it is but the initial economic price, if indeed there is one, has to be seen against the whole and what the UK makes of the new opportunities it finds. As time goes on and the Eurozone's troubles become more apparent again, the decision to get out will look increasingly good IMHO.

I think in all the melee surrounding the referendum result a lot of folk have lost sight of the huge problems the Eurozone has stored up for itself. They're still present and the Deutsche Bank situation is just one manifestation of what lies ahead.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Salivating at the prospect of the Eurozone collapsing is Europhobia in the extreme. It would badly affect this country aswell (Brexit or no Brexit).

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

The fact is it will happen like it or not. Add to that those slagging off May for saying we will be having a hard Brexit does not make our bargaining postition worse, in fact quite the opposite.

The EU exports more to us than we do to them, We will be free to source elsewhere, they will have to sell elsewhere unless they are willing to do a deal. If the EU want to write off those exports then hey-ho let them get on with it.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

I missed this when on our hols but:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/...-french-indus/

Oh dear, things not so good over there yet then...

---------- Post added at 14:49 ---------- Previous post was at 14:41 ----------

Yes :tu:

As for 'salivating' about Eurozone collapse? What utter tosh! I for one would much rather they'd seen the light and reformed but not a chance of that even in the face of Brexit.

Nobody's 'salivating' simply pointing out what's happening just across the water is perfectly legitimate especially since, it already has and will continue to affect the UK adversely, even moreso if we're still shackled to the sinking ship.

Rather than attacking the messengers, maybe it'd be more useful for some people to focus on the flawed EU ideology, political dogma, mismanagement and utter intransigence which has led the Eurozone into this crisis and shows no sign of abating. So much easier to ignore all that and resort to the usual insults though eh? Standard fare for those who can't argue their case... :rolleyes:

---------- Post added at 15:07 ---------- Previous post was at 14:49 ----------

Then there's this still simmering away nicely:

https://www.theguardian.com/business...impose-reforms

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Even in case of a 'soft' Brexit we'd be free to source elsewhere.

While it seems some people on here are incapable of grasping this extremely simple concept I'll reiterate that membership of the Single Market as part of the European Economic Area does not mean membership of the Customs Union, so tariffs, trade policies, etc, become a UK competency.

May have some fun sourcing elsewhere though given the day after we leave we'll almost certainly have free trade agreements with no-one and can have tariff-free trade with no-one, while the EU have 53 free trade agreements they can sell through.

The export thing has been done to death but repeating yet again they are over 40% of our exports, we are 10% of theirs

So if you're fine with our writing off 40% of our exports then hey-ho let's get on with it.

You may dogmatically be desperate for a hard Brexit given you've apparently loathed the EU my entire lifetime, those of who are aren't retired or nearly retired would appreciate the opportunity to keep our jobs.

When even that huge fan of the EU Arron Banks prefers EEA membership over a hard Brexit it should give you some idea of just how extreme that view is. Bizarre that it seems to be the direction now.

---------- Post added at 16:23 ---------- Previous post was at 16:09 ----------

Says the guy who has me on ignore because he can't argue his case. Keep rolling with that virtue signalling.

Many of those who wanted to remain in the EU entirely appreciated it had major issues and wanted to try and resolve them from within. That well known Neocon Yanis Varoufakis gave a talk about it. I loathed and continue to loathe the manner in which they treated Greece and think they have a whole collection of things they have done wrong, Merkel's handling of refugees being one.

I appreciate far easier to just go with the black and white view Brexiteers good, 'Remoaners' bad though.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

You keep pressing this 40% 10% argument ad nauseum.

We export about £220 billion in goods and sercives to the other 27 EU member states but import about £290 billion from them.

You speak of the EU as a whole yet there are EU states that import more form us than they export to us.

Conversly there are those who export more to us and who is the biggest one? Surprise, surprise it's that powerhouse of Europe Germany. Try telling them that they'll only lose 10% of their exports if a deal isn't done. Spain, Belgium, France, Italy and Poland are only a little behind.

That is 6 member states that have a lot to lose and it's nowhere near 10% of their GDP. So yes, if they don't want to deal then hey-ho bye bye.

I presume you will accept a graph published by the ONT in 2015 as proof.

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2016/10/21.png

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Resolve them how i keep hearing how we should have stayed in reformed from within but no one has come up with a practical how we'd have done that given the EU has shown zero interest in reforming even after the UK votes to leave still not a hint of meaningful reform. The EU has one goal and only oneway to get there and if you don't agree with it tough because there's only oneway how do you even start to attempt reform when that's the attitude.

When the EU collapses because it is a case of when not if it won't be celebrated anywhere as a great many people will suffer because of it and if I'd honestly believed the EU was prepared to reform and adapt to the world we're in I'd have voted remain as i think many others would have. We've had this whole "reform from within" for twenty years and nothing has come from it no changes the progression has continued exactly as the EU always intended.

Voting for brexit wasn't ideal far from it but of the two options it was better then continued membership of a broken organisation completely out of touch with it's citizens. There will be tough times ahead economically although i don't think they will be as tough as some predict and on the day we formally leave the EU some are going to be surprised at the trade deals that will come into play and the opportunities we have available to us.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

The EU has no interest in reforming. That isn't in it's DNA. It simply can do that.
It's all or nothing.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

I do mention them as a group because they are. All 27 member states have to agree to any deal with us, they all have veto.

You are correct when you mention that it's nowhere near 10% of their GDP, so thanks for making that point for me. We're about 7.5% of Germany's total exports, and while their consumption is somewhat low Germans actually do have a domestic economy. The £27 billion surplus they ran with us in trade in 2015 was less than 1.5% of their economy.

The £12 billion Spain ran in surplus about 1.5% of GDP. Belgium's surplus 2.5% of GDP, France's not even 1%.

Exports to us are 3-4% of EU-27s economy. Our exports to them are 12% of our economy. Their economy is considerably larger.

Germany are quite aware of the consequences and seem quite willing to take them, both politicians and trade bodies as they fear the longer term consequences would be far more harmful than a loss of some, it obviously wouldn't be all, trade.

Thankfully it looks like the government, behind the rhetoric, is more pragmatic.

We may actually end up running a bigger trade deficit with the EU when all is said and done - a trade deal is likely at least initially to include goods only, not services. We run a >£20 billion a year surplus with the EU on services.

---------- Post added at 21:59 ---------- Previous post was at 21:56 ----------

It's a painfully bloated and slow beast, as is predictable with 27 member states all with their own agendas, but it looks as though some movement is happening. Overdue and well needed, too. They've kicked the can down the road to the point where the problems are existential.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

If the EU is such a fantastic club to be in why are so many countries bankrupt with ever increasing unemployment .If the single market is so brilliant why has our trade to the EU fell year on year since we joined it .It's obvious that the EU does not work for the UK ,it never has .Since we joined the old EEC it has been a fight with Brussels all the way .
We should have listened to France back in the 60's when they vetoed our application to join

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Agreed. We never committed to it properly and were every bit as obstructive of the rest of the EU as we perceived they were of us.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

I didn't say the EU was a great club nor have i ever stated that and i think you took my post the wrong way i in no way support what the EU has become or the way it conducts itself. I actually believe that the EU is more of a threat to peace then a gaurantor of it and the continued push to expand the EU is dangerous and reckless.

There is no doubt in my mind that the UK will end up significantly more prosperous eventually but there is going to be a period of economic adjustment and harder financial times ahead for many of us. Remaining part of the EU in it's current form wasn't an option for me and the prospect of a united european state in the future definately not something I'd ever consider acceptable. Though the chances of the EU surviving long enough to accomplish that now is highly unlikely i doubt very much that the EU will survive the next twenty years.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Apologies Rizzy ,my bad ,i am actually agreeing with you but reading it back i can see how it could be mis interpreted :tu:

---------- Post added at 07:04 ---------- Previous post was at 06:59 ----------

My god something we agree on ;) .The EU is something that must be fully committed to by all sides or it simply doesn't work ,opting out of various bits or demanding special concessions is pointless and very damaging to what should on paper be a good thing

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

We agree because it's true with decades of evidence backing it up. I hold to my previous view that we shouldn't have moved from EFTA to EEC. I also still hold to the view that if we weren't already in we shouldn't join. :tu:

I was, however, intensely naive to impose that as a test or guide to our actions given our current position. That was a mistake, and a fundamental one.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

:tu:

They tinker around the edges and won't even acknowledge the major flaws in the 'one size fits all' Eurozone, let alone tackle them.

---------- Post added at 09:41 ---------- Previous post was at 09:35 ----------

Yes, the Eurozone is so fantastic that over the last decade and more, huge numbers of Brits have been steadily heading there with nobody wanting to come here...

Still, to be fair, it's not as though the likes of France, Italy, Spain and Germany are having problems is it? Thankfully it's just insignificant minnows like Greece and Portugal who're in trouble and there's no risk of serious contagion at all...

:rolleyes:

Yes the EU could and should have been a very good thing so just what does it say about those who've run it that they've created a basket case and refuse to accept that even now? With different leadership, a more pragmatic approach and a far more cautious approach to expansion a great many of the problems could have been avoided and we'd all have reaped the benefits.

---------- Post added at 09:48 ---------- Previous post was at 09:41 ----------

:tu:

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

In some positive news Deutche Bank's worries seem to be abating a bit, and Citigroup have upgraded Eurozone banks generally.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/...-treasury-war/

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Appalling austerity and unemployment in parts of the EU are not the EU's fault. Please discuss...

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Nice try,

Your original post

up, it's not as though the EU is currently a model for success is it. It's lurched from groteseque wine lakes and butter mountains to appalling austerity, huge unemployment,

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Nice try?

I know what I've written. It's called putting the ball in your court. ;)

In the Post Brexit thread you asked me why certain problems were the fault of the EU and I've replied there and referred you here so you can find/read my views in more detail if you so wish. I'm now (via the post you quoted above) inviting some meaningful comment from you on why you feel the EU's policies aren't to blame for the problems I cited because you seem to disagree with my sentiments. If you don't wish to discuss it that's fine but I was expecting something other than questions from you at this point.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

No, what you did was take the original post, misquote and then not post your corrected post.

I digress... To come up with some relevant questions and/or debate give me a while to read through the thread and we can pick up and discuss

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

I'm sorry, I obviously gave you more credit than was due for being able to follow what was a fairly simple task, albeit with a slight twist due to an addition to my first post which I made as a result of your original reply to it. I thought it clarified matters, in fact it confused you but I thought we'd successfully moved on from there. C'est la vie...

Your view of discussing things seems to involve posing questions without answering any as you've just done again with Martyh in the post Brexit thread. Forgive me if I decline to carry on with that sort of 'discussion'. What I think about the EU's problems is here in some detail, you can disagree as much as you like (we're all entitled to do that) but it's now up to do a lot more than just disagree with opinions and pose questions. How about you come up with the evidence which supports your apparent view that the appalling unemployment and austerity in Europe aren't the fault of the EU for a change? That's why I posted this:

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/sh...postcount=1892

Remember?

Good luck with that anyway. ;)

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Euro 'house of cards' to collapse, warns ECB prophet

Timely warning about the dangers of politicising central banking. Rules should've been upheld both when Greece and others breached them in one direction and Germany in the other. Needs fixing, the risks are existential.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Just in case anyone was thinking that things are so much better over there:

http://www.politico.eu/article/italy...budget-hammer/

Brexit is a big deal fraught with risks and difficulties but let's not forget what we're trying to detach ourselves from eh.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Looks like small change now compared to the independently-costed Brexit costs!

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Looks like even smaller change compared to the scale of the problems inherent within the European banking system which are simmering away quite nicely.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

The Eurozone seems to defy gravity and carry on. The banks are a bit of an unknown.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

They're in that Wiley Coyote moment: The legs are still running but yet to notice the ground has gone and gravity is about to take over.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

The only unknown is how bad it's going to get and right now Brexit has conveniently taken the focus off the EU's other fundamental problems.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

:clap: Could not have said it any better. The EU is a ticking time bomb, failure of the project is practically a dead cert, whether we had stayed in it or not.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Meaning they dare not continue to bail out Greece because otherwise it would mean their beloved Euro would go down the pan. On that basis Greece can do what it likes.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Yes and some folks still want us further shackled to this mess. How very weird... :spin:

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Typical left wing attitude. Spend, spend, spend, and don't worry how we will feed ourselves tomorrow.

Greece deserves all it's going to get, I'm afraid. Thank heavens we will not have to cough up.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Five years on and the Eurozone seems no closer to collapse.
I used to believe it would but now I'm just wondering if it's all anti-EU spin. Yes, Germany has helped Greece financially but Germany gains from a weak Euro.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

The euro will never work until such time as all the participating countries come together as a new federal Europe.

You can't have different countries pursuing different economic and fiscal policies that impact on a common currency.

The EU is a mish mash bureaucracy that stifles business and innovation. It will ultimately implode and we will be fortunate indeed to have extracated ourselves from all parts of this mad European project.

It could be made to work, of course, but the Eurocrats simply don't have a clue.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

The Euro's been going 20 years and survived the 2007/8 General Financial Crisis so we can't pretend it doesn't work. Despite how illogical it may all seem when viewed from Blighty.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

It's 'working' a whole lot better for the Germans than the Greeks. As has been stated, what doesn't 'work' is the single size fits all economic policy which accompanies it and can't reconcile the major differences between the northern and southern EU states in particular.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

I know what you mean, Andrew, but it doesn't work as it should and the whole set up is extremely fragile. The Greek crisis is a symptom of this, and don't forget that Spain, Portugal and Italy came pretty close to the brink - in fact, Italy is nowhere near out of the woods yet.

Sooner or later, the EU will either have to admit defeat or go federal, IMHO.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

All the EU and the Euro has done is give those countries a sense of invincibility. They could recklessly borrow and spend all with relative impunity. All that "going federal" would have done is limit that spending. It couldn't improve their lot other than by doing what those countries could have easily done for themselves. Eg it was the Greeks themselves allowed so much tax evasion, not the EU.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

This from a couple of months ago:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/...s-ecb-prophet/

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Yes, but if Greece became a state within a United States of Europe, the politicians there would have to follow the dictats of the central Government.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

So what is it the EU could do, even by dictat, that Greeks couldn't have done for themselves? Their choice, so they should face the consequences.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

All they do is continually raise the debt ceiling,quantative easing, a.k.a.producing money out of thin air.The whole banking system is a giant ponzi scheme.Does any sane person actually think that that our/eu/usa debts will ever be brought down to balance out?.As my late dad would say "not a snowballs chance in hell".

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Given their obvious and endemic tax evasion, fiddling and living beyond their means, why were they ever allowed into the Euro-club I wonder? It seems to me that the relentless pursuit of a political pipe-dream blinded those who should have known better.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Well, they wouldn't have that choice if they were answerable to a central Government, just as North American States are answerable to Washington.

The point is, they chose to spend money like there was no tomorrow, recklessly taking unfair advantage of getting into the EU. It was their choice, granted, but they should not have been able to exercise a choice which impacted so gravely on other EU members.

Without a federal Europe, this could happen all over again with any so-called 'anti austerity' government.

---------- Post added at 13:24 ---------- Previous post was at 13:22 ----------

Quite. This failure to see obvious consequences to decisions made is typical of the bureaucracy that is the EU.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Odd that so many folks still seem to have more faith in these people than their own elected leaders who're at least replaceable if they get it wrong. It's quite bizarre... :shrug:

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38412557

Debt bailing out debt it seems to me. Who's going to pay for it?

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38442342

Yeah let's stay part of this club... :rolleyes:

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

We're not in the Eurozone, thanks to Gordon Brown. :D

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

So non of the expense of this corrupt, incompetent collection will land on our doorstep?

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

You can bet that so long as we have to contribute to the EU they'll find some way of fleecing us to bail out the failing Euro project.:rolleyes:

Just another reason for a hard Brexit.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Indirectly, it does.

Not being entangled in the Euro has meant our economy has outperformed the EU. That has led to our budget contributions becoming relatively higher.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Really? I didn't know that. When I went to bed last night I was certain my wallet was full of Euros not Sterling... :D

As has been stated many times here and elsewhere in the forum, the UK will be always be affected badly by any collapse of the Eurozone but it'd be far worse if we were still in the EU at the time or had joined the Euro as so many so called 'experts' told us we should so.

We're not in the Schengen area either but the flawed ideology which led to its creation still adversely affects the UK directly and indirectly.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by collection? At first I thought your feisty adjectives might be referring to Fifa. :)

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

As it stands and I have said this before. EU is not sustainable. There have been members of the 28 Countries, who just are not paying their fair share and there are some members just riding it through expecting other members to keep them afloat, while enjoying the so called EU benefits of being a member.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

It's also worth noting that due to the way the money markets work, our economy may very well be affected by fluctuations in EU economies regardless of whether we are in or out of the EU.

We could profit, or we could lose.

Note: Although I voted remain, I hope our country prospers even after article 50 has been invoked, and once I looked into it, I never thought the Euro was a good thing. It required that countries tied their economies to Europe in a way I don't think is good for all of them.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

We certainly won't be unaffected by a collapse of the Eurozone or disintegration of the EU but staying in wouldn't have prevented it. The longer they kick the can down the road, the worse the fallout will be. Better to do what the UK did and make a decision than to perennially fudge the issue and hope it goes away.

As it stands, from what I heard from a Brussels bureaucrat this morning, their plan B is more plan A... :rolleyes:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...negotiatorguy/

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Haven't we been here before?

http://news.sky.com/story/turkey-thr...lates-10803361

Turkey Threatens to scrap refugee deal as diplomatic row escalates over Netherlands spat.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Who'd have thought?! :rolleyes:

Just one of many massive problems facing the EU. The others haven't gone away...

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Ah, so the 'migrant deal' is the Sword of Damocles available every time Turkey isn't happy about something. What do the EU fanboys here feel about this way of doing business?

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Whenever the EU's issues are highlighted by events it's usual very vocal supporters go very quiet and aren't seen much until the next brexit disaster article appears then they reappear to tellus we'd have been better off remaining in the EU. I recently had a discussion with some business people most from the continent and was quite surprised how pessimistic they are about the EU's future but the one thing they all agreed on was that before the collapse there will be more dramatic integration tried to stave off many of the issue's.

Another thing that surprised me was how positive they were about brexit and the UK's future, i guess even though i don't buy into a lot of the pessimism in the media i did think the continent had a more uniformed negative take on brexit. Interesting times ahead with a period of both uncertainty and struggle but the more i hear people from the continent talk about the EU the more i realise that applies to both the UK and the EU.