Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35970045)

It would be quite simple, accept the proposed deal or reject it, - 2 options, most can cope with that.

If rejected the Govt. would have to renegotiate or come up with a better plan. It wouldn't automatically mean the end of your beloved Brexit.

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35970053)

Try a google search on my phrase... ;)

Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35970023)

Well I have sort of said we need to go back to the people if the politicians have failed us.

P.S. Nothing wrong with saying what's on your mind, you're as articulate and intelligent as anyone on here, but sometimes you have to come off the fence...

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35970027)

You can't just sit on the fence criticising, Den. That's the easiest option.

If you think the government is handling this badly, what would your definition be of handling it well?

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35970027)

We are facing a hostile EU, whom Theresa is dragging into a situation they want to be in. At the same time, TM has to sort out the border issue, the remainers, her own party, and parliament. She's working against the odds - don't you think it's time we gave her a little slack?

Originally Posted by Dave42 (Post 35970066)

Brexit news: Three more ministers set to quit as Theresa May faces fresh turmoil
EXCLUSIVE: Sources say three ministers are in “advanced talks” to follow his lead and plunge Theresa May’s government into fresh turmoil

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politi...sters-13566895

Four UK ministers on verge of quitting, EU rejects latest plan - Sunday Times

https://uk.reuters.com/article/brita...XL0UM?rpc=401&

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35970068)

Not on the fence at all Mr K as l don't believe we should have another referendum but that does not mean anybody or anything should be exempt from criticism unlike one or two on here who lickspittle and take umbrage at a differing view or opinion on here from others.

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No fence sitting from me OB as l have stated all along what a complete shambles this government has been since the referendum vote and nothing they have done since has altered that view at all as to put it frankly HMG could not organise a piss up in a brewery and that is being kind to them.

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Here we go again blame the EU for the complete omnishambles in this country since the referendum as l am not saying the EU are not culpable in many ways in a good many things but stop lickspittling to Theresa May all the time as you need to take off your rose tinted glasses for once come into the real world of reality.

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If you have open civil war within a incumbent government then its just a matter of time before that government collapses.

Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35970045)

It would be quite simple, accept the proposed deal or reject it, - 2 options, most can cope with that.

If rejected the Govt. would have to renegotiate or come up with a better plan. It wouldn't automatically mean the end of your beloved Brexit.

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35970077)

Don’t forget he also said

Originally Posted by Angua (Post 35970073)

As i have pointed out before. The Referendum was Cameron's attempt to unite the increasingly fractured Tory party. It is clearly not having the desired result and the country is suffering as a result.

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 35970078)

Wrong Mr K, if the deal is rejected we leave without a deal. That is the reality. Therefore+making such a second referendum pointless.

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He was right it “should” be, but we haven’t even got to that stage yet. We’re still negotiating the “withdrawal” agreement not the the future relationship.

Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35970085)

The No Deal thing is the least likely outcome, in fact it won't happen as it would send the country into chaos. Even this Govt. isn't that mad. It has to made to look a possibility for the sake of negotiation but nobody has been fooled.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35970092)

Anyone would think that no countries could survive outside of the EU! Well, they do, and they also trade with the EU, with or without trade deals.

The choice is between a deal and what has become affectionately known as a 'hard Brexit'. This is not going to change.

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35970095)

Which large and prosperous European countries are not in the EU single market or customs union?
I'm talking about Europe as proximity is important http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2018/0...ters-in-trade/

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35970092)

Anyone would think that no countries could survive outside of the EU! Well, they do, and they also trade with the EU, with or without trade deals.

The choice is between a deal and what has become affectionately known as a 'hard Brexit'. This is not going to change.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35970103)

What a strange question, Andrew.

Proximity is convenient, but distance is not the barrier it once was.

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35970075)

I think people today will be facing up to a couple of Brexit realities:

1. There is no strong and stable government in place at the moment and things are likely to worsen. It really is a case of Carry on Brexit. :D
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politi...sters-13566895

2. The EU has likely rejected May's proposal for the Irish backstop
https://news.sky.com/story/rejection...-plan-11551130
As a reminder, on 17 July 2016, John Redwood told us "Getting out of the EU can be quick and easy - the UK holds most of the cards in any negotiation." SEPH]: Unforunately the stupid TB guvmin did not play those cards.