Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

With an addendum

"And that would stop a repeat of the same thing happening again, Oblast by Oblast"

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Your question is based upon a false assumption where you have inferred something I have not said, nor implied.

---------- Post added at 18:19 ---------- Previous post was at 18:12 ----------

I’m sorry but the bogey man of perpetual Russian aggression doesn’t warrant sacrificing every Ukrainian man of fighting age in a war it is both losing and being inadequately resourced by its supposed allies.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

I have not inferred anything. I ask again, and it is a simple question: what do you think Ukraine should do today to stop what you see as a "meat grinder"?

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Sorry Ian that’s a nonsense.

Your own words were:

I absolutely reject this framing of the argument, just as I rejected that every post criticising Israel has to condemn Hamas first.

This framing is no more valid than me claiming you are happy to sacrifice Ukranians for Polish, Latvian, or anyone else’s security. How many Ukranians have to die before you’d countenance Ukraine negotiating a settlement and I ask again what mechanism can this be conveyed by the people if the Zelensky regime will not?

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Ok, some progress:

So you think Ukraine should negotiate a settlement so what territory do you think they cede to achieve peace (if any)?

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

No progress. That was a question for you from which you have once again inferred an opinion I hadn’t stated in that post.

Would you be willing to sacrifice them all for Polish security? Til the last Ukranian? Do the conscripts get a choice?

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Well they haven’t had Crimea for a decade. They, and the West, gave it up with so much as a whimper.

Along with Donetsk and Luhansk, so they are already effectively part of Russia’s hand. What would now be up for negotiation would be the territory Russia has occupied and held since the invasion of 2022.

What territory they cede would be up to them, as part of any negotiation.

---------- Post added at 19:21 ---------- Previous post was at 19:16 ----------

Well as someone of more mature years Hugh, and of an exMilitary background, I can assume that if you had to go to war on the frontline you wouldn’t hesitate, as seen as as all the 25-35yr olds were dead.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Another post where you criticise the current Ukrainian strategy yet are unwilling to declare what you think they should actually do.

Forget what I want, what do you think they should do? Last attempt on my part. If you, yet again, dance around the question and mock the current attempts for Ukraine to defend itself, I can only conclude you have no serious intent to debate this subject.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

No, no, no Ian your wilful misinterpretation of my posts doesn't allow you to dictate debate here. The post you quoted doesn't refer to Ukrainian strategy at all - unless you actually think it is "til the last Ukrainian" or sacrificing them for Polish security. If you think millions of dead Ukrainian conscripts is a price worth paying for Polish security that says far more about you than me.

Knowing what know from your keyboard would you be willing to take up arms on Zelensky's front line? Would you encourage your children or grandchildren?

If (or when) Zelensky comes calling for Ukrainian men under 60 in the UK to be sent for slaughter at the hands of the Russian army should we deport them forthwith?

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

https://wapo.st/4d7FDKZ

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

This is really surreal. I am asking a very simple question here and you vector off to criticise me for all sorts of weird stuff.

If you are unable (or unwilling) to say what you would change to stop the very thing you are criticising then there is no debate to be had here.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

There's nothing weird about calling you out for misinterpreting my posts.

That's three in a row now. There's nothing weird about asking if you wouldn't go to the front line to die, nor would you be happy for children or grandchildren to, why unwilling Ukrainian men should by virtue of where they were born.

I'm past dealing with your nonsense but Pierre's post 2797 above makes some pertinent points you have completely ignored in favour of this tedious line.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Comrade* Haw-Haw, a bogey man is imaginary - Russia’s actions in Chechnya, Georgia, Transnistria, & Ukraine are very real…

*Tankies don’t believe in Lords…

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

*Sigh* I am not misinterpreting anything. You rant about unwilling Ukrainians being killed yet you cannot say what should happen to stop it. I think most here would express an opinion on what should happen next.

I think what you don't say, says everything.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

This was not said in the post you quoted.

Nor this in the post quoted:

You may be overdosing on the pro-Ukranian kool aid and believe recapturing Crimea is achievable, and happy to commit the Ukrainian male population to die for it.

However somewhere else (in the real world) there has to be consideration of at least the possibility for some that dying in an ill equipped, never ending and futile war isn’t any more desirable for the average Ukrainians than it is for you from the luxury of your keyboard. How they would extract themselves from that is a good question. I refer again to Pierre’s post that you have not addressed while you persist in misrepresenting mine.

Under Zelensky, they’d need to kill him first.

---------- Post added at 10:27 ---------- Previous post was at 10:22 ----------

For the purposes of this post only, I’ll concede the point and say it still doesn’t warrant sacrificing every Ukrainian man of fighting age in a war it is both losing and being inadequately resourced by its supposed allies.

What steps Ukraine, NATO, or anyone else could take between now and then to better resource the front line more than ritual human sacrifice would be welcome.