Cable Forum - Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !

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Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !

Currently the EU can impose new rules WITHOUT the involvement of the national parliaments. That is one of the distinctions between EU regulations and directives.

Recent news story.

Quote:

The EU's top court has rejected a challenge by Hungary and Slovakia to a migrant relocation deal drawn up at the height of the crisis in 2015.
The European Court of Justice overruled their objections to the compulsory fixed-quota scheme.
...

The issue was decided by a majority vote - a system only usually used on issues that do not affect national sovereignty.
Hungary, Slovakia, the Czech Republic and Romania voted against.
...
Hungary's Foreign Minister Peter Szijjarto was furious, calling it "appalling and irresponsible". He vowed to use all legal means against the judgement, which he said was "the result of a political decision not the result of a legal or expert decision".
"Politics has raped European law and European values. This decision practically and openly legitimates the power of the EU above the member states," he said.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35915571)

i wish the remoans would bring out a new record something no so repetitive would be nice .:blah:

I notice the way you constantly reply to well articulated and informative posts with dismissive empty ridicule. Why bother :td:

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !

Quote:

Originally Posted by daveeb (Post 35915587)

I notice the way you constantly reply to well articulated and informative posts with dismissive empty ridicule. Why bother :td:

thanks it's nice to be noticed :tu:

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35915582)

12,000 EU regulations imposed without the involvement of the UK Parliament. That is not trivial.

It is totally irrelevant what they are and even if 100% of the UK population agrees with something. The point is that if 100% of the UK population disagreed with something, then nothing could be done.

Most of those relate to things like environmental policies, harmonisation of standards, operation of shared regulatory bodies, etc, and make for a functional internal market. Without a number of things being harmonised the internal / single market can't work, and without other things being in place the four freedoms couldn't work.

The EU can't produce regulations on anything member states haven't agreed to delegate competency on. A number of regulations don't apply to the UK as we have opt-outs in those areas.

Those that are imposed were done so with the agreement of the UK Parliament when it agreed to delegate the competency and again when it didn't legislate to reverse them; many would've had the agreement of the UK's representative in the Council of Ministers, the UK's Commissioner would've been involved with the creation of the regulation and the UK's MEPs would've voted on it.

The UK was never under any obligation to obey them and could always have rejected them. It would've carried consequences but Parliament was always able to pass Acts to overrule anything from the EU.

Quote:

These developments do not fundamentally undermine the principle of parliamentary sovereignty, since, in theory at least, Parliament could repeal any of the laws implementing these changes.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/22/w...s.html?mcubz=3

Shall we leave the UN? It's impinging on our sovereignty?

The WTO might rule against us and will definitely forbid us from enacting certain policies. We will trade according to their rules not our own, again impinging on our sovereignty.

Any bilateral trade agreement of any depth will require binding dispute resolution mechanisms that will overrule Parliament.

The UK's representatives at least had votes, if not veto power, over many regulations. The Repeal Bill as it stands leaves no scrutiny at any level outside of the executive, no votes at any level for implementation.

Flipping it the other way around if people were upset with directives being able to bypass Parliament and wanted their sovereignty back it seems strange they'd be fine with a Minister being able to bypass Parliament not just on anything the EU did but anything they, at their sole discretion, feel is necessary for Brexit.

From my POV this feels more like HMG saying: 'You thought the EU was anti-democratic watch this!'.

It's simply not necessary for it to be done in this form. There are 18 months to get this done, there's absolutely no need for such a rush, it should be done properly to ensure we don't spend years afterwards fixing mistakes.

---------- Post added at 11:02 ---------- Previous post was at 11:00 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by daveeb (Post 35915587)

I notice the way you constantly reply to well articulated and informative posts with dismissive empty ridicule. Why bother :td:

His vote is worth the same as yours. Isn't democracy great? ;)

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !

Quote:

Originally Posted by daveeb (Post 35915587)

I notice the way you constantly reply to well articulated and informative posts with dismissive empty ridicule. Why bother :td:

Yep we all know Brexit is happening but personally l welcome Ignitionnet well thought out articulated posts as nowt much of that seems to be coming from our elected politicians currently or from some on here.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35915588)

thanks it's nice to be noticed :tu:

Well, you notice when you step in something, but it's not nice...

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !

Quote:

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35915592)

Have to get my thoughts in before speaking out against HMG's strategy for Brexit is criminalised.

Only half-joking.

---------- Post added at 11:52 ---------- Previous post was at 11:13 ----------

Game over for people like me, and pre-referendum Dan Hannan and others, as EEA/EFTA membership is ruled out.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/david-...-brexit-2017-9

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !

Quote:

Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35915583)

Blair signed the Treaty of Rome having promised that there'd be a referendum on it but reneged on that promise

Never realised Tony Blair was about in 1957. Learn something new everyday.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bircho (Post 35915605)

Never realised Tony Blair was about in 1957. Learn something new everyday.

He wasn't as I'm sure you know. ;)

It was the Lisbon treaty I was referring to. Blair signed the UK up to the new European Constitution which then culminated in the Lisbon Treaty actually signed by Brown after Blair's resignation. The end result, so far as the UK's sovereignty is concerned, was the same and it's hardly surprising that having been deprived of one promised referendum then, those of us who want to leave the EU might be just a bit sensitive about the same politicians trying to undo the vote we were finally allowed to have.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !

Quote:

Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35915607)

He wasn't as I'm sure you know. ;)

Was it a different Blair then ;)

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bircho (Post 35915608)

Was it a different Blair then ;)

No. it was the same duplicitous Blair as always was sadly. He's still at it now, doing his best to derail Brexit. For someone who came to power on the basis of listening to ordinary people, he only hears the voices which support his own views. He's not alone in that amongst politicians of course but he is one of the most hated people in the UK for good reason and his IMHO his handing of the UK's EU membership is one of the biggest reasons for that.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !

Quote:

Originally Posted by daveeb (Post 35915587)

I notice the way you constantly reply to well articulated and informative posts with dismissive empty ridicule. Why bother :td:

Well I've read all the 'well-articulated and informative posts' and all I've witnessed is the endless remoaning death throes of the vanquished losers.

But, well, I still don't give a bugger. We are leaving and anyone who wants to live within the EU, can always emigrate. In fact, please, just go and leave us to wallow in our future success.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kursk (Post 35915613)

Well I've read all the 'well-articulated and informative posts' and all I've witnessed is the endless remoaning death throes of the vanquished losers.

But, well, I still don't give a bugger. We are leaving and anyone who wants to live within the EU, can always emigrate. In fact, please, just go and leave us to wallow in our future success.

You clearly haven't read them.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !

Quote:

Originally Posted by daveeb (Post 35915616)

You clearly haven't read them.

Strictly speaking you're absolutely right. There are posts I know will be full of repetitious, it's-all-been-said-before, look-at-me-I'm-clever tripe, and I do skim through those :sleep:.

Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kursk (Post 35915613)

now that's a 'well-articulated and informative post' and your right about the endless remoaning death throes of the vanquished losers.
:clap::clap::clap:

---------- Post added at 13:58 ---------- Previous post was at 13:56 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kursk (Post 35915618)

Strictly speaking you're absolutely right. There are posts I know will be full of repetitious, it's-all-been-said-before, look-at-me-I'm-clever tripe, and I do skim through those :sleep:.

:rofl::rofl::rofl::clap: